Am I Using The Correct Chemicals

[chickenslegs]

I have been searching the pool forum but can't find the definitive answer to my problem. All the different names (and brand names) of chemicals are a little confusing to the non-expert.

I recently decided to maintain my own pool, as my maintenance guy was becoming unreliable (not turning up for several days, leaving the pool dirty etc.).

Perhaps I should have done my research first, but I was annoyed with his attitude and told him not to bother coming back.

The chemicals he left behind are:

Trichloroisotryanuric acid (90% available chlorine)

Soda ash

An algicide/water clarifier.

I use a water testing kit and I have been able to keep the water in balance easily enough (at least according to the testing kit - (chlorine/ph)).

Reading this forum I see that people recommend using chlorine to keep the water clean, and anuric acid to prevent the chlorine from being evaporated away.

Is trichloroisotryanuric acid doing the same job, or do I need some different chemicals.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Edited June 3, 2008 by chickenslegs

[Naam]

there's obviously a spelling mistake and you mean "trichloroisocyanuric acid" which in fact your pool service used as clorinator. soda ash is used to raise pH and hydrochloric acid is used to lower pH. chlorine is more effective and evaporates at a slower pace the lower the pH value is in your pool water.

you have mentioned that you were able to maintain the water balance but not given the values of Cl contents and pH.

[chickenslegs]

Thanks for the reply naam,

Yes, spellyng not good, I confrused with words of more than five litters.

According to the test kit my cl is about 1.0 (towards 1.5) and ph is 7.6 (towards 7.2).

So, are you saying it would be better to use chlorine (liquid or powder) and add anuric acid occasionally. Or, am I ok to carry on with the chemicals I have?

[Naam]

Thanks for the reply naam,

Yes, spellyng not good, I confrused with words of more than five litters.

According to the test kit my cl is about 1.0 (towards 1.5) and ph is 7.6 (towards 7.2).

So, are you saying it would be better to use chlorine (liquid or powder) and add anuric acid occasionally. Or, am I ok to carry on with the chemicals I have?

your pH of 7.6 is too high for a chlorine contents of 1ppm. try to get it down buy adding (slowly and carefully) acid which is dam_n cheap and available in every pool shop till 7.0 although the recommendations are 7.2.

trichloroisocyanuric acid IS your chlorinator. no need to go for powder or expensive tablets. disadvantage of liquid chlorine is that pool shops normally sell only unstabilised products. in these containers chlorine "falls out" and turns into a solid form which is quite difficult to dilute.

advice: go to the Thaivisa pool forum. you find a lot of valuable information.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=108

[chickenslegs]

Thanks for the reply naam,

Yes, spellyng not good, I confrused with words of more than five litters.

According to the test kit my cl is about 1.0 (towards 1.5) and ph is 7.6 (towards 7.2).

So, are you saying it would be better to use chlorine (liquid or powder) and add anuric acid occasionally. Or, am I ok to carry on with the chemicals I have?

your pH of 7.6 is too high for a chlorine contents of 1ppm. try to get it down buy adding (slowly and carefully) acid which is dam_n cheap and available in every pool shop till 7.0 although the recommendations are 7.2.

trichloroisocyanuric acid IS your chlorinator. no need to go for powder or expensive tablets. disadvantage of liquid chlorine is that pool shops normally sell only unstabilised products. in these containers chlorine "falls out" and turns into a solid form which is quite difficult to dilute.

advice: go to the Thaivisa pool forum. you find a lot of valuable information.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=108

Naam,

Thank you for explaining this to me in simple terms.

What I hadn't realised (and what you have now explained) is that the trichlo..blah...blah is the chlorinator.

C/Slegs

Edited June 3, 2008 by chickenslegs

[Chang_paarp]

What you have is the basics for looking after the pool.

The algaecide is, as the name implies for controlling the algae, in doing this it will reduce the need for chlorine, leaving the chlorine to deal with the bacteria. It should be added regularly depending on te type of algecide it is. Unfortunately the labeling requirements in Thailand leave a lot to be desired so you are not sure what it is you adding to the pool.

The trichlor is the source of chlorine, it also ha cyanuric acid in the molecule. The chlorine is meant to be the bactericide keeping the pool safe to swim in. The cyanuric acid is a chemical that helps keep the chlorine in the the pool to do it's job. Because UV light can cause chlorine to dissipate from a pool very rapidly, cyanuric acid is used to act like a sunscreen to keep the chlorine in the pool. Cyanuric acid does not significantly affect the Ph of the water. A minimum level of 1ppm is recomended, higher is better, I try to keep in the 2-4ppm range.

The soda ash is to adjust the Ph of the water from acidic (yellow on the scale) towards alkalne (red on the scale) the preferred is in the middle. While Naam and I disagree the exact ideal I tend to recomend 7.2 - 7.6, it is in the middle of the scale. Using trychlor the water will tend to go acidic providing there are no other facters affecting the Ph.

When adding chemicals to the pool always dilute or dissolve the chemical first. I use a bucket of pool water and add the chemical to the bucket of water, stir, then add to the pool walking around the side of the pool to spread the chemical . Always rinse the bucket between chemicals. Never mix the chemicals in the bucket at the same time this can cause a very unpleasant explosion.

The other issue you have to address is filtration. To keep a domestic pool properly filtered you need to filter the volume of the pool water 1.5 time a day, in a typical installation this requires 6-8hours of filtration every day. This also ensures adequate chemical mixing with the water.

It sounds complicated to start with but it becomes less than 5 minutes work very quickly.

Enjoy the pool.

[Naam]

While Naam and I disagree the exact ideal I tend to recomend 7.2 - 7.6

that disagreement exists since i had my first pool three decades ago and did some research a pH of 7.2 is recommended based on the ancient fairy tale that it's best for the eyes as it matches the pH of the human tear liquid. what the fairy tale tellers forget is that human skin is a "zillion" times more exposed to pool water than the eyes. the average pH of human skin is 6.8 (in many cases below that value), the pH of certain female parts is even much lower and these parts don't like a high pH at all and protest in many cases with itching. all afore-mentioned is based on facts and not opinions.

by the way, you can't keep cyanuric acid neither at 2 nor at 4ppm in your pool. this chemical is used as an additive with a variety of chlorinating agents but it's percentage is tiny and not measurable with normal means. what you meant is that you keep the Cl contents of your pool water between 2 and 4ppm.

[Gary A]

I have noticed that no one mentions salt. I don't mean salt that makes the water taste salty. If you can taste the salt you have too much. It will save chlorine and make the water better for your skin.

[chickenslegs]

It sounds complicated to start with but it becomes less than 5 minutes work very quickly.

Enjoy the pool.

Actually, the way that you and naam have explained it, it sounds fairly straightforward.

Thank you.

[Naam]

I have noticed that no one mentions salt. I don't mean salt that makes the water taste salty. If you can taste the salt you have too much. It will save chlorine and make the water better for your skin.

in what way? salt is not bactericidal except in very high concentration and even then only partially. what nobody has mentioned ever in Thailand is that poolwater should receive a chlorine shock (7-8ppm) once in a while depending on how frequently and by how many people the pool is used.

[Gary A]

I have noticed that no one mentions salt. I don't mean salt that makes the water taste salty. If you can taste the salt you have too much. It will save chlorine and make the water better for your skin.

in what way? salt is not bactericidal except in very high concentration and even then only partially. what nobody has mentioned ever in Thailand is that poolwater should receive a chlorine shock (7-8ppm) once in a while depending on how frequently and by how many people the pool is used.

In what way? That's a good question. Years ago when my kids were little, the pool man mixed salt in the water. He said it was better for their eyes and skin. He thought the salt saved chlorine too. I have no idea if it did or not. I'm not talking about a salt chlorination unit.

[chickenslegs]

what nobody has mentioned ever in Thailand is that poolwater should receive a chlorine shock (7-8ppm) once in a while depending on how frequently and by how many people the pool is used.

In what circumstances, and by what method would the 'chlorine shock' be administered?

I once gave my pool a double dose of chlorine when it became very cloudy full of dust particles. The chlorine went off the scale of my test kit. The water was clear by the next morning but then it took a long time to get the water in balance again (adding soda ash).

Is this what you mean?

[Naam]

what nobody has mentioned ever in Thailand is that poolwater should receive a chlorine shock (7-8ppm) once in a while depending on how frequently and by how many people the pool is used.

In what circumstances, and by what method would the 'chlorine shock' be administered? I once gave my pool a double dose of chlorine when it became very cloudy full of dust particles. The chlorine went off the scale of my test kit. The water was clear by the next morning but then it took a long time to get the water in balance again (adding soda ash).

Is this what you mean?

that's exactly what i mean. most of the bacteria developing in pool water are killed by the usual concentration of chorine (1-3ppm). but to be on the safe side "shocking" (as described) is recommended to kill any bacteria that survive the normal concentration. balancing the water (reducing pH) is done with acid available in pool supply shops. "off the scale" which goes normally till 5ppm = shocking.

[ozzydom]

I changed my last pool on the Gold Coast over to salt and added an in line electrolysis cell,no more adding chlorine and no more algae problems. It saved me heaps in maintenance costs.

[chickenslegs]

what nobody has mentioned ever in Thailand is that poolwater should receive a chlorine shock (7-8ppm) once in a while depending on how frequently and by how many people the pool is used.

In what circumstances, and by what method would the 'chlorine shock' be administered? I once gave my pool a double dose of chlorine when it became very cloudy full of dust particles. The chlorine went off the scale of my test kit. The water was clear by the next morning but then it took a long time to get the water in balance again (adding soda ash).

Is this what you mean?

that's exactly what i mean. most of the bacteria developing in pool water are killed by the usual concentration of chorine (1-3ppm). but to be on the safe side "shocking" (as described) is recommended to kill any bacteria that survive the normal concentration. balancing the water (reducing pH) is done with acid available in pool supply shops. "off the scale" which goes normally till 5ppm = shocking.

Thanks again.

[chickenslegs]

I changed my last pool on the Gold Coast over to salt and added an in line electrolysis cell,no more adding chlorine and no more algae problems. It saved me heaps in maintenance costs.

Thanks for the suggestion.

My pool is only about 2 yrs old, so the pumps/filter are still in perfect working order, plus, I am quite enjoying looking after things myself.

I will consider your suggestion as/when I get to the stage when I have to pay for new equipment.

[nobber9999]

Thanks for the reply naam,

Yes, spellyng not good, I confrused with words of more than five litters.

According to the test kit my cl is about 1.0 (towards 1.5) and ph is 7.6 (towards 7.2).

So, are you saying it would be better to use chlorine (liquid or powder) and add anuric acid occasionally. Or, am I ok to carry on with the chemicals I have?

your pH of 7.6 is too high for a chlorine contents of 1ppm. try to get it down buy adding (slowly and carefully) acid which is dam_n cheap and available in every pool shop till 7.0 although the recommendations are 7.2.

trichloroisocyanuric acid IS your chlorinator. no need to go for powder or expensive tablets. disadvantage of liquid chlorine is that pool shops normally sell only unstabilised products. in these containers chlorine "falls out" and turns into a solid form which is quite difficult to dilute.

advice: go to the Thaivisa pool forum. you find a lot of valuable information.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=108

Naam,

Thank you for explaining this to me in simple terms.

What I hadn't realised (and what you have now explained) is that the trichlo..blah...blah is the chlorinator.

C/Slegs

[nobber9999]

Thanks for the reply naam,

Yes, spellyng not good, I confrused with words of more than five litters.

According to the test kit my cl is about 1.0 (towards 1.5) and ph is 7.6 (towards 7.2).

So, are you saying it would be better to use chlorine (liquid or powder) and add anuric acid occasionally. Or, am I ok to carry on with the chemicals I have?

your pH of 7.6 is too high for a chlorine contents of 1ppm. try to get it down buy adding (slowly and carefully) acid which is dam_n cheap and available in every pool shop till 7.0 although the recommendations are 7.2.

trichloroisocyanuric acid IS your chlorinator. no need to go for powder or expensive tablets. disadvantage of liquid chlorine is that pool shops normally sell only unstabilised products. in these containers chlorine "falls out" and turns into a solid form which is quite difficult to dilute.

advice: go to the Thaivisa pool forum. you find a lot of valuable information.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=108

Naam,

Thank you for explaining this to me in simple terms.

What I hadn't realised (and what you have now explained) is that the trichlo..blah...blah is the chlorinator.

C/Slegs

C/Slegs,

I agree with Naam regarding the ph and cl levels. However, up here in Korat I found that algie started to build up in the form of black spot and green stuff in the overflow guttering with low CL level so I tend to maintain mine at 1.5 and once a month give it a shock and go a bit over the top with the chlorine for a few days. As a result the black spot brushes off the tiles no problem although the grout takes a bit more effort. The green stuff in the guttering, assuming you have an overflow pool like me is easy to get rid of by giving it a light powdering with chlorine overnight and then a brush off in the morning. you won't of course need to worry about this if your pool has skimmers (water stays below deck level).

I use chlorine granules as they dissolve much slower than powder but of course this is put in the balance tank where it can slowly dissolve and then be circulated by the pump. If you have skimmers then the powder version which is normally stabilzed is better to dissolve in some water then disperse around the pool from a bucket. As Naam says, the job then is really to balance the PH at a level that suits your eyes, skin and any other bits that may become irritated with the high PH level. I use PH up and PH down and it works a treat although tend to be a little generous with it otherwise you probably will not notice any difference when you test the water. I think I read on the label that it is best to use when the level needs to be raised by 0.2 or more.

The clarifier you mention if its like the one I keep under the bed just in case its needed is only for when you have a serious problem and the water turns green or has lots of debris floating. You would normally pour the whole container (1 gallon) in overnight and leave it.

Finally, when I had my current pool installed 6 months ago they told me that if the pressure on the filter tank rose to 20 (psi I presume) it was time to clean the filters. The filter expert then interjected and said no, it was more like 25 psi. Needless to say I did sweet fanny adams as it stayed around 16 psi for ages until I noticed the water was becoming more "bitty". I then though what the hel_l, I might as well take the thing to bits and give it a wash. What was revealed when I removed the lid was "orrible" . Each vane was caked in crap approx 3mm thick and the end of the pressure gauge sensor looked more like a browny green ping pong ball. it took sometime to spray the lot off with a high powered hose but after that I make a point of cleaning it once a month and ignore the gauge completely!!! oh, this may not apply to you if you have a sand filter as this one is a DE FILTER.

Time for bed.........

Nobber9999

[chickenslegs]

Thanks for the reply naam,

Yes, spellyng not good, I confrused with words of more than five litters.

According to the test kit my cl is about 1.0 (towards 1.5) and ph is 7.6 (towards 7.2).

So, are you saying it would be better to use chlorine (liquid or powder) and add anuric acid occasionally. Or, am I ok to carry on with the chemicals I have?

your pH of 7.6 is too high for a chlorine contents of 1ppm. try to get it down buy adding (slowly and carefully) acid which is dam_n cheap and available in every pool shop till 7.0 although the recommendations are 7.2.

trichloroisocyanuric acid IS your chlorinator. no need to go for powder or expensive tablets. disadvantage of liquid chlorine is that pool shops normally sell only unstabilised products. in these containers chlorine "falls out" and turns into a solid form which is quite difficult to dilute.

advice: go to the Thaivisa pool forum. you find a lot of valuable information.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=108

Naam,

Thank you for explaining this to me in simple terms.

What I hadn't realised (and what you have now explained) is that the trichlo..blah...blah is the chlorinator.

C/Slegs

C/Slegs,

I agree with Naam regarding the ph and cl levels. However, up here in Korat I found that algie started to build up in the form of black spot and green stuff in the overflow guttering with low CL level so I tend to maintain mine at 1.5 and once a month give it a shock and go a bit over the top with the chlorine for a few days. As a result the black spot brushes off the tiles no problem although the grout takes a bit more effort. The green stuff in the guttering, assuming you have an overflow pool like me is easy to get rid of by giving it a light powdering with chlorine overnight and then a brush off in the morning. you won't of course need to worry about this if your pool has skimmers (water stays below deck level).

I use chlorine granules as they dissolve much slower than powder but of course this is put in the balance tank where it can slowly dissolve and then be circulated by the pump. If you have skimmers then the powder version which is normally stabilzed is better to dissolve in some water then disperse around the pool from a bucket. As Naam says, the job then is really to balance the PH at a level that suits your eyes, skin and any other bits that may become irritated with the high PH level. I use PH up and PH down and it works a treat although tend to be a little generous with it otherwise you probably will not notice any difference when you test the water. I think I read on the label that it is best to use when the level needs to be raised by 0.2 or more.

The clarifier you mention if its like the one I keep under the bed just in case its needed is only for when you have a serious problem and the water turns green or has lots of debris floating. You would normally pour the whole container (1 gallon) in overnight and leave it.

Finally, when I had my current pool installed 6 months ago they told me that if the pressure on the filter tank rose to 20 (psi I presume) it was time to clean the filters. The filter expert then interjected and said no, it was more like 25 psi. Needless to say I did sweet fanny adams as it stayed around 16 psi for ages until I noticed the water was becoming more "bitty". I then though what the hel_l, I might as well take the thing to bits and give it a wash. What was revealed when I removed the lid was "orrible" . Each vane was caked in crap approx 3mm thick and the end of the pressure gauge sensor looked more like a browny green ping pong ball. it took sometime to spray the lot off with a high powered hose but after that I make a point of cleaning it once a month and ignore the gauge completely!!! oh, this may not apply to you if you have a sand filter as this one is a DE FILTER.

Time for bed.........

Nobber9999

Thanks nobber,

I'm sure there is some really good information in there, but it's getting late and I've been gradually soaking myself in cheap red wine for the last couple of hours.

I'll read it again tomorrow.

C/Slegs

[Naam]

I then though what the hel_l, I might as well take the thing to bits and give it a wash. What was revealed when I removed the lid was "orrible" . Each vane was caked in crap approx 3mm thick and the end of the pressure gauge sensor looked more like a browny green ping pong ball. it took sometime to spray the lot off with a high powered hose but after that I make a point of cleaning it once a month and ignore the gauge completely!!! oh, this may not apply to you if you have a sand filter as this one is a DE FILTER.

Nobber9999

i was quite skeptical when told "sand filters are the done thing in Thailand" as i have always used D.E. in my pools. now after nearly 2 years having a sand filter i admit that i'm quite happy. none of the sticky mud (as you described), a backwash of 2 minutes and a rinse of 30 seconds is all i need once a month and the water is always crystal clear.

[Gary A]

A diamateous earth filter is probably by far the best but if you are a little careless they can be all but useless. Any algae clogs them quickly and you'll be spending more time re-charging them than filtering water. I KNOW first hand. The best of both worlds is a sand filter followed by a D.E. filter. My filter had a series of plastic grids that got coated by the D.E.. If I ever have another pool (not likely) a modern sand filter would be fine.

[chickenslegs]

I seem to be just asking loads of questions and not contributing much - sorry about that.

I have a sand filter which appears to be working fine. Does the sand need to be replaced or topped up from time to time? and how do you know when to do it?

I was thinking that I might change to ground glass next time.

A friend of mine told me that changing the sand is a job only for an expert (at least that's what his pool 'expert' told him) - I find that difficult to believe - what do people think.

Insects - I am getting quite a few 'skimmers' on the surface (4 long legs and an elongated oval body). Also smaller versions which swim under the surface. Plus, small flying beetles with a hard shell.

They don't seem to be put off by the chemicals in the water - any suggestions?

Also, several frogs, a couple of lizards and a few kids - but I can handle those.

[Naam]

I have a sand filter which appears to be working fine. Does the sand need to be replaced or topped up from time to time? and how do you know when to do it?

i have been told that the sand should be changed after 5-6 years. topping is only necessary if you lose sand when backwashing. check glass tube during backwash.

[Naam]

A friend of mine told me that changing the sand is a job only for an expert (at least that's what his pool 'expert' told him) - I find that difficult to believe - what do people think.

some people (like me) think that's rubbish

[Naam]

A diamateous earth filter is probably by far the best...

that's why D.E. is used by breweries worldwide to filter beer. but this D.E. is used only ONCE and then disposed of. a problem with D.E. can be a bacteria built-up as chlorination is done after the filter and the normal concentration of chlorine might not be able to cope with a concentrated mass of bacteria.

[chickenslegs]

Thanks all, for some good info.

Pool shop couldn't give me any suggestions about insects - just keep ph balanced.

Another thing - all white plastic components turn yellow in the sun. Even my pool lights have turned yellow, as the pool had to be drained down for a couple of days for re-grouting.

Has anyone found a cleaner to get them white again?

[Naam]

Another thing - all white plastic components turn yellow in the sun. Even my pool lights have turned yellow, as the pool had to be drained down for a couple of days for re-grouting.

i have the same problem but not caused by the sun (my pool never gets any sun) but by a broken electronic pH sensor which caused my automatic system to pump 15 liters of very corrosive pH-minus into the pool

[chickenslegs]

Another thing - all white plastic components turn yellow in the sun. Even my pool lights have turned yellow, as the pool had to be drained down for a couple of days for re-grouting.

i have the same problem but not caused by the sun (my pool never gets any sun) but by a broken electronic pH sensor which caused my automatic system to pump 15 liters of very corrosive pH-minus into the pool

You have an automatic system!

You always sound like a "roll up your sleeves and get stuck in" type to me.

[soledog]

hi guys, just reading through the thread about filters.

It could be worth comparing replacement prices for DE filters before purchasing as some of the screens inside can be very expensive . As oppose to sand filters which are generally problem free and cheap to service (i.e changing the sand)