ศักดินา

[Xangsamhua]

In another TV sub-forum someone asked why two Thai drivers would beat up a couple of elderly Englishmen in Pattaya recently. The questioner wondered if Thai people's respect for the elderly only extends to Thai elderly.

I thought that maybe it does, as foreigners have no ศักดินา, i.e. no formal place or status in the Thai ranking or deference structure. In the old ศักดินา system, so I believe, even a slave had a notional 5 rai, but a foreigner had none at all. Hence, deference is not owed to foreigners except where the foreigner is a known quantity and deemed worthy of respect.

But how do people nowadays actually use this term? Some time ago I heard a couple of young women on the staff of my school use the term, but as we were merely passing on the stairs I didn't pick up how they were using it. Otherwise I can't think of any cases.

[DavidHouston]

Here is Lexitron on ศักดินา:

ศักดินา [N] status in terms of land, counted in rai; right to the possession of farmland

Where ศักดิ means power; might; authority (Syn. กำลัง, อำนาจ, ศักดิ์) and นา means "field; farm", that is, the land which is fundamental to Thai economics and culture.

and ศักดิ์ has the following meanings:

ศักดิ์ [N] mightiness; vigor; force

ศักดิ์ [N] prestige; power

ศักดิ์ [N] ability; skill; capability; potential

ศักดิ์ [N] power; mighty; authority

ศักดิ์ [N] rank; status; prestige

Despite the fact that The word ศักดินา is no longer a part of the Thai social structure, the metaphor ศักดิ์ continues to be embedded in the following common Thai words"

ศักดิ์ศรี [sakL seeR] [N] honor; glory; fame; renown

ศักดิ์ศรี [N] prestige

ศักดิ์สิทธิ์ [sakL sitL] [ADJ] sacred; holy; consecrated

[konjianghai]

Here is Lexitron on ศักดินา:

ศักดินา [N] status in terms of land, counted in rai; right to the possession of farmland

Where ศักดิ means power; might; authority (Syn. กำลัง, อำนาจ, ศักดิ์) and นา means "field; farm", that is, the land which is fundamental to Thai economics and culture.

and ศักดิ์ has the following meanings:

ศักดิ์ [N] mightiness; vigor; force

ศักดิ์ [N] prestige; power

ศักดิ์ [N] ability; skill; capability; potential

ศักดิ์ [N] power; mighty; authority

ศักดิ์ [N] rank; status; prestige

Despite the fact that The word ศักดินา is no longer a part of the Thai social structure, the metaphor ศักดิ์ continues to be embedded in the following common Thai words"

ศักดิ์ศรี [sakL seeR] [N] honor; glory; fame; renown

ศักดิ์ศรี [N] prestige

ศักดิ์สิทธิ์ [sakL sitL] [ADJ] sacred; holy; consecrated

If you interest about the ศักดินา you can check these links.

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A8%E0%...%B8%99%E0%B8%B2

http://www.rsu.ac.th/soc/corner58.html

[Xangsamhua]

Here is Lexitron on ศักดินา:

ศักดินา [N] status in terms of land, counted in rai; right to the possession of farmland

Where ศักดิ means power; might; authority (Syn. กำลัง, อำนาจ, ศักดิ์) and นา means "field; farm", that is, the land which is fundamental to Thai economics and culture.

and ศักดิ์ has the following meanings:

ศักดิ์ [N] mightiness; vigor; force

ศักดิ์ [N] prestige; power

ศักดิ์ [N] ability; skill; capability; potential

ศักดิ์ [N] power; mighty; authority

ศักดิ์ [N] rank; status; prestige

Despite the fact that The word ศักดินา is no longer a part of the Thai social structure, the metaphor ศักดิ์ continues to be embedded in the following common Thai words"

ศักดิ์ศรี [sakL seeR] [N] honor; glory; fame; renown

ศักดิ์ศรี [N] prestige

ศักดิ์สิทธิ์ [sakL sitL] [ADJ] sacred; holy; consecrated

If you interest about the ศักดินา you can check these links.

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A8%E0%...%B8%99%E0%B8%B2

http://www.rsu.ac.th/soc/corner58.html

Thank you. I found the rsu.ac.th piece a bit hard to follow on a quick reading, so will need to look at it more carefully, but it seems that ศักดินา originally referred to ascribed value, i.e. a person's status as defined by the social order, not to any intrinsic quality in the person him/herself that merits respect, nor to any moral order outside social ascription that would require one to, for example, defer to the elderly. Hence, the elderly Englishmen who were beaten up (in the presence of a policeman!) were not seen to merit any ascribed or other due respect. They had no "prestige", "rank", "honour" or "status" despite their age, whereas, had they been Thai, they would have - a hangover from the original ศักดินา idea. But perhaps I'm reading too much into this. (I also don't know how aggressive or provocative the Englishmen were, but the presence of the policeman is interesting.)

Am I right in concluding that the term ศักดินา is not generally used in conversation now, except in discussion on political and sociological topics and only in relation to Thailand?

[Virin]

We still use this term ศักดินา in general speaking but mostly for sarcasm.

เขาทำตัวศักดินามากๆ ต้องมีคนใช้เดิมตามตลอด

He behaves ศักดินามากๆ, always has servant walks behind him.

[Rikker]

As Virin says, the term in its original sense is obsolete.

According to RID, which classifies it as โบราณ "archaic", the term combines the words ศิกดิ์ "power, authority" and นา "field". So originally it literally meant your "land authority", or how much land you had. In the era of the Three Seals Law (กฎหมายตราสามดวง)*, predating the current dynasty, it details how much land each rank received.

RID also supports Virin's statement about how the term is used today, that it's a term of derision used toward the wealthy or upper class.

And by the way, the page at the RSU link isn't about the Sakdina system in general, but rather it's about จิตร ภูมิศักดิ์ (Chit Phumisak)'s famous 1957 book โฉมหน้าศักดินาไทย which was a Marxism-inspired academic evisceration of the Thai social order, and got him labeled as a dangerous leftist (even though he wrote it under an assumed name). He was imprisoned for a number of years after it was published, fled up country after his release, and was eventually shot to death in 1966, at the age of 36. Sad story (and sadly typical of the time).

It has been translated into English by Craig Reynolds as "The Real Face of Thai Feudalism Today", with Reynolds' analysis. My copy is regrettably still unread, but it's been on my reading list for a few years now. $25 on Amazon, or $20.95 directly from Cornell.

It's an important book in Thai history, to say the least.

[Xangsamhua]

Many thanks, Rikker, Virin, Konjianghai and David. Your responses and references have been most helpful.

Will order the book from Amazon.

Cheers

Xangsamhua