Economic Hardship - Coupons For The Poor

[sriracha john]

I love this government, that thinks it's their job to give away other peoples money.

And steal some for them selfs in the process.

This is the crap ones tax-money is spent on.

Depending on the semantics they decide on, there could more than 10% of the entire population receiving this tax money... (which is not to say, that it would actually end up in the stomachs of those in need)

Welfare Promotion & Protection Office Warns Government to Carefully Classify “The Poor”

The country’s welfare promotion and protection office is warning the government to carefully identify who are eligible for its planned campaign of free stamps to buy necessities.

The People Power Party-led administration has recently come up with an idea to give away free stamps to the poor, for the purchase of necessities just when all goods' prices are on the rise.

While the campaign has received the opposition Democrat Party’s support, it has vastly been criticized by economists and the private sector. *and just a smidgen more from Thaivisa*

As some warned the government to make a careful calculation on how much budget would be needed to fund the program, others ask for elaborate details on its execution, especially the criteria of who would qualify for the stamps and how long the project will last. *they must have been reading this thread*

The Office of Welfare Promotion, Protection and Empowerment of Vulnerable Groups said that, recently, there has been a constant shift in the line that divides the group of people who are earning below the breadline and those who should not be entitled to state assistance to combat economic hardships.

According to the Social Development Ministry, the word “underprivileged” means the poor, the homeless, those who hold no nationality, ex-convicts, and HIV/AIDS patients.

And, the definition of “the poor” as specified by the National Statistical Office refers to those whose earnings are not adequate to help acquire basic necessities to merely live an unsophisticated life.

The National Economic and Social Development Board states that the level of earnings that defines “the poor” is anything below 1,380 baht per month.

As of 2006, 6.05 million Thais, or 9.55 per cent of the country’s population, have been classified as being “poor.”

But, the Welfare Promotion Office now warns that the recent economic downturn that has led to several business closures have just added more numbers to this statistics.

Therefore, the government is to carefully determine who should be eligible for its free stamps for necessities program that it is planning.

It also suggested the government to promote self-dependence through job promotion and funding for small businesses to help those in need survive the hardship over the long term.

- Thailand Outlook (today)

==============================================================================

and STILL, no word on a specific amount to be involved. Their waiting for the clouds to clear so their pie-in-sky figure can be grabbed out of thin air. One could well imagine there will be lots of 0's in it.

Edited June 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[cloudhopper]

Printing redeemable coupons is EXACTLY the same thing as printing fiat money, and will have the same inflationary effects by increasing demand and therefore prices, and will contribute to further devaluation of the Baht.

[sriracha john]

Printing redeemable coupons is EXACTLY the same thing as printing fiat money, and will have the same inflationary effects by increasing demand and therefore prices, and will contribute to further devaluation of the Baht.

There was an article (that seems to have subsequently disappeared) detailing how the government is seeking to issue swipe-enable digital plastic cards instead of paper coupons. To me that just increases the fraud potential.

I'll continue to search to see if I can find a similar article.

Edited June 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Found a different article reporting on using digital un-smart cards...

Government considers Smart Card-use as food coupons for the poor

BANGKOK, June 11 (TNA) – The so-called Smart Cards held by individual low-income earners might be used in place of coupons for the authorities to provide them with food and other subsistence items in the face of today's rising cost of living, according to Finance and Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee.

The Smart Cards for low-income earners, whether in urban or rural areas countrywide might turn into a prepaid monthly card for the holders to have access to food and other goods at discounted prices as well as reduced travelling expenses.

The plan to allocate food and other items via the Smart Cards in place of food coupons for low-income earners in urban and rural areas nationwide is being considered by the National Economic and Social Development Board, the Budget Bureau and the Fiscal Policy Office, the finance minister said.

The planned subsistence aid for the low-income earners to make do in the face of the rapidly rising cost of living might last a six-months to one-year time, according to the finance minister.

In order to plug possible leaks and embezzlement or other cheaters in the system, those entitled to such subsistence aid would be required to register with the authorities and to be verified by the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives or community leaders, he added.

=========================================

It'd be wonderful if the huge potential for fraud ended with the measures described in the last paragraph... but it doesn't.

Edited June 12, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Plastic for the poor

The government will give low-income families handouts or debit cards to help them survive the economic crisis.

"The poor in remote areas may get cash while those in cities may get allowances via smart ID cards," Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee said. He said the poor need help to cope with the rising cost of living.

"Those entitled to state help must register themselves as poor with their community leaders first," Surapong said.

Background checks will be carried out. However, the government cannot rule out abuse and people not needing help registering for assistance.

Surapong said the scheme will run for between six months and a year.

- The Nation

========================================================================

Once again, no mention of the amount of money involved with this latest "scheme"...

[0Mix1up]

surapongs

scheme

scheming

scam

[Scott]

I do believe that it is a gov'ts responsibility to help the poorest and most vulnerable of it's citizens, but I think it's quite hard to figure out who exactly is poor in Thailand. The under reporting of money for taxes, the informal economy--in which some people earn a reasonably decent living, but basically tax free, all leave this system open to some very widespread abuse.

The method of household registration (census papers) is out of date with many folks still being listed as living in one place but actually residing in another.

If they really want to give money to the poor, they can just hold another election and buy the votes!

[sriracha john]

....with nary a mention of even the amounts of money to be involved in the hastily-thrown-together social program.

and STILL, no word on a specific amount to be involved. Their waiting for the clouds to clear so their pie-in-sky figure can be grabbed out of thin air. One could well imagine there will be lots of 0's in it.

Once again, no mention of the amount of money involved with this latest "scheme"...

finally, the first mention of the amount of money involved and using just the 2006 National Statistics Office figure it will run between 1,815,000,000 and 2,420,000,000 Baht PER MONTH.... or for the planned 12 months of its existence between 21,780,000,000 and 29,040,000,000 Baht. It would be expected to actually be more than that as the figures are 2 years old..... So, c'mon boys!! It's feedin' time!!

TDRI academics criticizes coupons used for distribution to poor people

Honorary academic from the Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI), Ammar Siamwalla (อัมมาร์ สยามวาลา), expresses belief that the distribution of coupons or cash cards for low-income people cannot solve the problem of high costs of living. He says it is unlikely that the project will be able to kick-start.

Mr Ammar also suggests that it is necessary for the government to clarify whom will actually receive the benefits from the coupon distribution.

Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee has earlier announced that the government will distribute cash cards worth 300-400 baht each to poor people each month.

The cards are expected to be given to them for 6-12 months, starting from next month.

- ThaiNews (today)

[toptuan]

Reading about this new scheme, a few immediate thoughts come to mind...

• I live in a city populated by 75% poor, unemployed college and university students. I wonder how that will play out?
  *
  
• 40 years later, USA food stamps come to LOS. Innovation!
  *
  
• I worked in a grocery store when USA food stamps came into use. Most popular items purchased with them? Cigarettes, beer and candy (illegally, of course).
  *
  
• I wonder if us farang teachers on Thai-teacher wages will qualify?
  *
  
• And lastly, who REALLY pays for this in the end?
  

Edited June 12, 2008 by toptuan

[Khun Jean]

Who is going to make the 'plastic cards', and which shops will accept them?

In these cases it is 'follow the money' and all will be clear.

[sriracha john]

Reading about this new scheme, a few immediate thoughts come to mind...

• I live in a city populated by 75% poor, unemployed college and university students. I wonder how that will play out?
  *
  
• 40 years later, USA food stamps come to LOS. Innovation!
  *
  
• I worked in a grocery store when USA food stamps came into use. Most popular items purchased with them? Cigarettes, beer and candy (illegally, of course).
  *
  
• I wonder if us farang teachers on Thai-teacher wages will qualify?
  *
  
• And lastly, who REALLY pays for this in the end?
  

In the USA today, even with the use of the plastic cards instead of coupons, there is still massive misuse as they are bartered about, same as cash. Last time back, an aquaintance wanted to borrow $40 and offered her card up to me as a bartering tool. Her offer was that I could go to the store and use her card to spend $100 on it if I would give her $40 in cash as a trade.

I turned her offer down, knowing that the $40 was for crack.

For Thailand, this sort of misuse I fear would be even more rampant and wonder how much of the 30 Billion Baht of taxpayers' money would actually be put to good use.

Edited June 13, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Scheme deplored

Economists and poor people say plan is destined for abuse and failure

Many low-income earners are questioning a state plan for cash handouts to the poor. The government says welfare payments will help impoverished people through current economic hard times. But representatives of the poor label the idea "unrealistic" and are frustrated with the government.

"I don't think workers will ever get this cash assistance," says Issara Musikong, an adviser to Labour Union of the East. He says free food parcels would be better. "If the government hands out cash, I can't help wondering if it will end up in the hands of political canvassers," Issara says.

Suchin Iam-in, a key member of homeless people's groups, expects the government scheme to fail. "Look at the low-priced rice scheme. Very few people ever got that," he says.

Chulalongkorn University economist Narong Petchprasert agrees cash handouts can be distributed unfairly. "The government should make necessities - toothpaste, soap, detergent and rice - available at low prices. This way the poor will be able to cope with the rising cost of living," Narong says. He insists this method is more practical. He believes cash handouts might be spent on the wrong things.

- Daily Xpress (today)

[sriracha john]

and now, in keeping with USA analogies, the government wants to create, organize, and implement the 1889 Oklahoma Stampede....all within 90 days...

A million rai for farmers

The Treasury Department has been given three months to take back one-million rai of unused land from other government agencies for allocation to poor farmers.

Seems they are applying the brakes on the Oklahoma Stampede...

No land for farmers

The government's plan to distribute unused land owed by the State Property Bureau to poor farmers could hit a snag - the armed forces don't want to give it up. The largest share of the bureau's land is rented by the Defence Ministry, which will be the first agency asked to hand some of it back, a source at the Treasury Department said. The department, which oversees the property bureau, was on Tuesday ordered by the cabinet to get one million rai of land back from other agencies, so it can be allocated to landless farmers. Army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda had ordered a review of bureau-owned land countrywide to consider how much the army could return to the owner, and quickly came up with the answer. "We've replied to the bureau that all the land is being used," the source said. The army is believed to control most of the land the Defence Ministry rents from the property bureau. It has four million rai in 58 provinces. PM Samak Sundaravej has set three months as the deadline for the plan to be realised.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/tops...s.php?id=128180

[TAWP]

...so it can be allocated to landless farmers.

...car-less car owners.

...and so on...

See, suddenly we can make it sound like it is a right for these people to receive handouts.

I'm myself a billion-less entrepreneur, and as such it is my right to be compensated from the government so I can compete on the same level as other entrepreneurs.

[Scott]

One thing to remember is that there is no scheme that is fool proof. There will always be a few needy people who fall through the cracks and there will always be people who meet the criteria for eligibility, but really aren't in need.

Gov'ts do have a responsibility to help the most vulnerable people in their society. The system they choose to use will need constant re-evaluation and administrative changes. That just goes with the territory.

Somehow, I think the gov't here will manage to screw it up! Don't know why, just a hunch, I guess!

[sriracha john]

EDITORIAL

Food coupons a poor answer

In the past month, the country has needed brave and imaginative political leadership to face a weakening economy and real suffering by the nation's poorest people. Severe problems are simultaneously battering the business community, producers and consumers alike, meaning almost everyone. Many of the economic problems certainly cannot be blamed on the government. But instead of rising to the challenge, it has given expensive gifts to a few groups that have made the most noise. The four-month-old government of PM Samak faces some of the toughest challenges of any recent government. But rather than face the challenges with determined resolve, ministers are conducting politics by the ostrich method. The government has mostly ignored the economy, popping up its head only when a particularly noisy or troublesome group makes its own life uncomfortable. The timorous and unpredictable quilt-work of responses to the very real economic downturn leave Thailand vulnerable. But now here comes the "help to the poor". This hasty and ill-considered effort at a real welfare programme is designed to give 300 to 400 baht per month to the six million most needy people, for at least six months. Rather than money, recipients will get coupons. Rather than the government identifying the poorest people, local political and community leaders will choose recipients by quota. Throwing in a teaser that it intends to test the new smart ID cards in the project just makes it look even worse. Providing help to the genuinely poor is a compassionate goal. Throwing money at village chiefs and kamnan to redistribute on a percentage system is not.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/16Jun2008_news17.php

[Tony Clifton]

Anybody remember the 10-15 baht food cart meals? Thaksin was so proud to introduce those for "the poor" in BKK.

[sriracha john]

Food coupons can help poor, but only if...

The two most important economic issues arising out of the recent cabinet resolutions are both of great interest. The first one, the rice price guarantee, is yet another episode of what has become an epic rice saga for this government, and a somewhat tragic one for the Minister of Commerce, Mingkwan Sangsuwan. In a bid to stave off the threat of street protests by farmers, the government hurriedly rushed out plans for the paddy guarantee, notably without the presence of either the Minister of Commerce or Agriculture. It will be interesting to see how the rice management scheme will fare without the support of the two ministries normally responsible for similar policies in the past. The second important plan, again hatched by the Finance Ministry, is the Coupon for the Poor programme. I say both are important programmes because they will cost us a lot of money, a combined total of around 70 Billion Baht a year; but with the rice programme, at least the government is receiving rice stocks in return. If implemented poorly, there may be very little to show for the cost of the coupons, save for the votes the ruling party would be hoping to gain. However, done right, the coupon plan could bring genuine relief to those who are suffering the most in this high cost of living environment. Proper debate is thus required and I was pleased to read Khun Suranand Vejjajiva's column in this newspaper last week. He calls the programme ''Opium for the Masses'' and I surmise that he is using his long experience in the Thaksin government to deduce that this policy will end up being poorly implemented and used only as a populist vote-grabbing opportunity.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/17Jun2008_news24.php

[sriracha john]

Thai government plans to issue coupons for the poor

BANGKOK, July 13 (TNA) - Thailand's five-month-old coalition government plans to issue coupons for low-income families in order to enable them to buy necessities for daily living, Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee announced Sunday.

The government programme coupons will be issued to poor families and aged people, Surapong said.

Initially, the Ministry of Finance is considering to issue the coupons to families earning less than Bt6,000 monthly so that they can buy necessities including soap, fish sauce, and food items from shops participating in the government program, he said.

It is believed that the scheme would be short-lived because the amount of money is expected to be low while the planned assistance is to help poor people from rising cost of living in the country.

The state-owned Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives and the Government Savings Bank have already supplied information on the number of families entitled to receive such assistance to the finance ministry.

Opposition Democrat Party has attacked the government's scheme as being initiated for short-term political gain, and other critics have said the program must be monitored carefully because it is easy for the system to be abused.

[sriracha john]

Protesters call for rethink on coupons

Activists voiced opposition to the government's coupon program for low-income residents yesterday, but suggested instead discounts be offered on public utilities, accommodations, and children's education. The government is planning to distribute coupons nationwide to the poor to help them cope with the soaring cost of living. The coupons will be redeemable for basic foodstuffs and consumer goods. But Chalee Loysoong, from the People's Network Coordination Center, said the government had not outlined any clear criteria on who is entitled to receive the coupons. He said the coupon program seemed to be a tool to enhance the government's popularity rather than an effective means of easing financial difficulties. Those benefiting most from the program would be major retailers, he said. The government should instead directly help the poor by lowering their household expenses, for example through discounts on tap water, electricity, rent, schooling and students' bus fares. Pratin Wekawakayanont, President of the Four-Region Slums Network, said she thought the coupon program would be similar to the Thaksin administration's village fund program which benefit mostly politicians' canvassers. People without any access to politicians could not get the funds, she said.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/150708_News/15Jul2008_news09.php

[sriracha john]

ECONOMIC HARDSHIP

Coupons for the poor

Scheme to start next month, Surapong says

BANGKOK: -- The government is pre-paring to give low-income people coupons to buy food and other basic necessities to lessen the impact of rising fuel and food prices.

and now that is is "next month"....."Surapong says" ..... uhmm, forget what I said last month... nevermind my blatherings from 4 weeks ago.......

Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee said authorities have scrapped the coupon program, which was to give the poor vouchers to exchange for food and consumer goods, because of questions about access and eligibility..

http://www.bangkokpost.net/160708_News/16Jul2008_news06.php

================================================================================

and the government wonders why the Consumer Confidence Index is dropping like a brick thrown off a highway overpass...

Edited July 16, 2008 by sriracha john

[TAWP]

These things, I mean the 'thinking', is what they should try to apply to the process *before* going public with a new scheme.