Thailand 'risks Revolt' After Muslim Deaths

[stroll]

-----------------------------------------------

Stroll, I have never once said that they should have died. I have said that they share responsibility.

The only way this will ever be solved is by both parties being intellectualy honest, and taking responsibility for what has happened/is happening/and will happen.

.....

Give me a break, do you think this is the EU?

......

Throwing a rock at a soldier is not equatable with getting shot in the head, but don't be surprised if you get shot when you throw that rock.

Got it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So first you demand to be honest and both parties take responsibility, then you suggest people shouldn't demonstrate because they should expect the treatment they get, including death by prolonged suffocation with their hands tied? The mind works in wonderous ways....

During the Vietnam war several were killed at Kent State for protesting/rioting. Sure that similar things have happened in Europe.

Yes they have, and protesters refused to take responsibility for having been tortured in police custody as well, this is how the Baader/Meinhof group in Germany came into existence. Don't expect people to stop at filing petitions while they are being verbally and physically abused.

But its the way they do it - random attacks against 13 yr old monks and elderly civilians not just people that could be claimed to represent the government such as policemen.  Must be about 200 such attacks in the last 12 months or so. Quite unjustified and so brutal.

Do you seriously imagine for a moment that if these people were given independence they would set up some shining example of a peaceful moderate Islamic country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You need to be more specific in who you are referring to. Mentioning Muslims, Malay seperatists and terrorist in the same sentence happens all too often, unfortunately. There is no such thing as "the Muslims" with a local representation in Patani who have chosen Pulo to be their elected representative. The situation is less clear and more complex, I am afraid.

The violent events we have seen in the news, including beheadings of defenseless civilians, are condemnable, and Pulo is the terrorist organisation responsible for most of these atrocities, either directly or by implication.

On the other hand, it is wrong to assume PULO of operating with the blessing of the majority of Thai Muslims, or saying they are representative of Islam.

I live within a predominantely Muslim community in Bangkok (I am Buddhist), with an international component, i.e Iraqis, Pakistanis, Turks etc. I assure you this is the most harmonious community I have lived in, the Thai version of Islam is a moderate one. Of course once violence escalates, as it has in the South, both sides of the conflict get radicalised, one turning to their faith, the other to some notion of peace, security and democracy to try and justify the most atrocious acts imaginable.

My most sincere belief is that a heavy handed response to protests will not solve the situation, and that it is the responsibility of the stronger part and the ones claiming the moral highground to seek and apply more appropriate ways of conflict solution.

[Steely Dan]

Muslims do seem to have serious difficulties living in peace with non-Muslims in too many parts of the world for it to be coincidental.  This begs the question why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any subjugated homogenous group of people will eventually rebel.

Muslim/Muslim wars are by no means uncommon , the closest ( geographically) example to hand is the war between Malaysia & Indonesia.

The most recent Iraq and Kuwait.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is there a Country on earth small enough to not possess a minority with a grievence legitimate or otherwise? The trouble is that if grievences are pursued with a religiously motivated fundamentalism and medieval barbarity then their actions must be seen to yield nothing, otherwise this will only encourage every single disaffected group to adopt the tactics of Al Quaeda. Oh for a world without religion.

[kat]

I tend to agree with you Steely Dan. This is where my beliefs get pulled apart. On the one hand, I think like Stroll and Guran politically. My viewpoints and past experiences have given me a minority viewpoint on world events. But my need for facts unadulterated by sentiment have driven me to research issues with no viewpoint in mind. After studying history and religion, including reading the the Koran and Bible, and living in developing countries, I no longer enjoy the ease of a black-and-white, politically correct view. Which means I agree with Stroll and Guran most of the time, but I also agree with So Cals last post.

What does this mean? Yes, all religions have their violence, either directly or through their beliefs that legitimize subjugation of certain castes or classes of people. And yes, they all have their histories. I would defend all of their rights to peacefully practice their beliefs.

However, I think the politically correct approach in skimming over the Koran and the tenets of Islam (no revisions because it is the word of God), is a bit unrealistic. It may not make you popular, but I think it is not only fair but glaring obvious to raise these questions.

I have stated this before, and people are probably tired of me. I'm sorry if that is the case, but I am genuinely trying to grapple with this issue. Am I the only one? Should we start a discusson to genuinely has this out?

[dksharron]

*******************************************

But its the way they do it - random attacks against 13 yr old monks and elderly civilians not just people that could be claimed to represent the government such as policemen. Must be about 200 such attacks in the last 12 months or so. Quite unjustified and so brutal.

YES, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

*****************************************

What exactly are they expecting to achieve. Have they really exhausted peaceful means of protest if they have legitimate grievances.

>>>>>> The Thai government accepts no peaceful means of protest. Allowance of disagreement is NOT ALLOWED :-)

I don't recall seeing these people presenting petitions to parliament.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was tried many years ago. Have you ever tried to reason with a Thai government official when you want them to actualy give something away.

Are they really so subjugated.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, they are.

They are free to build their mosques and go about their lives.

>>>>>>>>> And be oor and have limited representation in the government.

Try getting permission to build a church in an Islamic country.

>>>>>>>>>>> I livedd in saudi for 8 1/2 years. I understand, and there are churches and mosques in Iraq, Iran, Jordan, etc. BUT not in Saudi Arabia.

This is not about subjugation. It is a religiously motivated and internationally supported attempt to destabilise an 'infidel' country in this case Thailand. Do you seriously imagine for a moment that if these people were given independence they would set up some shining example of a peaceful moderate Islamic country.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is Thailand a peaceful moderate Buddhist country? No, it is not. It is Buddhist in name alone. The purpose of Buddhism is to become enlightened and to do that one must free themselves of want. That is notthe case in this land.

Thais do discriminate against everyone.

[kat]

Yes, and to be fair, I want to try an remember a political protest a couple of years ago about the Thai/Malaysian pipeline.

Didn't Muslim groups protest, and weren't they beaten down to the ground with clubs by the Thai police?

[stroll]

However, I think the politically correct approach in skimming over the Koran and the tenets of Islam (no revisions because it is the word of God), is a bit unrealistic. It may not make you popular, but I think it is not only fair but glaring obvious to raise these questions.

I agree, and I feel rather uncomfortable on the subject.

While I have little respect for the Koran outside its historic valuation, I cannot condemn Muslims in general because of it. Fortunately, people don't always follow to the letter the faith they adapt, I'd say it is the parts which are regarded as useful and furthering one's life and spirituality which are practised by individuals.

I have had plenty of contact with Muslims, although admittedly in multicultural envvironments where they constitute the minority.

[Laulen]

If you are listening in to what Thaksin might be saying on Thai TV, you might like to read this Eyewitness account from the BBC website.

Eyewitness: Thailand's deadly protest

Thailand is in shock after 78 arrested Muslims died in overloaded army trucks after a protest turned violent. The BBC's Tony Cheng has visited the camp where more than 1,000 survivors of the journey are still being held.

"We were tied up, our hands behind our backs," said one man, in his early 30s.

"They packed us into the trucks, face down, and when the floor was filled they stacked others on top. In my truck there were four layers. I heard that some trucks were seven layers deep," he said.

These were the allegations of one of the survivors of Monday's protest in the southern Thai province of Narathiwat.

The man had been one of 1,300 loaded into army trucks by the military after the demonstration turned violent.

Their destination was military headquarters in Pattani, several hours north. But 78 men were dead before they arrived, having been suffocated or crushed to death.

I had gained access to the military headquarters with a delegation of Thai senators who had come from Bangkok to investigate the deaths.

We had been taken to the holding room where 200 men sat on the bare concrete floor. Many had fresh scars and bruises, but looked otherwise in good health.

The people responsible for this must be brought to justice, by legal means

Kraisak Choonawan

Senate foreign relations committee

As soon as the man had told me this, I was escorted outside by a soldier carrying an M16 rifle.

But the senators remained. As they came out they told more harrowing tales.

Senator Jermsak Bintong said one man said they were stacked inside the trucks like sardines.

"They cried out for help, but the soldier told them 'Now you know what it is like in ######'," the senator said.

He said he had been told that the detained men were beaten.

"They didn't dare to resist. If they did they were hit with rifle butts," he said.

"The people responsible for this must be brought to justice, by legal means," he continued, his anger quite visible.

Official story

The army, however, had a different story.

A presentation to the delegation showed knives, machetes and grenades that had been recovered from the scene of the protest, a police station in the town of Takbai.

First-hand accounts from some of the soldiers were shown who said they heard bullets being fired and saw guns in the crowd.

The commander of the fourth army that controls the southern provinces, Lt General Pisan Wattanawongkiri, admitted some mistakes had been made when he briefed the senators.

He said that some soldiers had become violent, but they were afraid.

The crowd had been set on causing trouble, he said.

He did not know who had given the order to pile the men into the trucks. His hunched shoulders and trembling voice suggested a man under great stress.

Just outside the main body of the camp lay the bodies of some of the dead.

Twenty corpses, their limbs twisted by rigor mortis and their flesh swollen in the hot weather awaited cleansing by a group of Muslim men. They must have had strong stomachs because the smell from 50 yards was overpowering.

As these images and stories filter out, Thailand's Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will find it increasingly difficult to maintain his hard line on the violence in the south.

Many ordinary Thais now feel that the bloodshed is too great to be ignored. If Mr Thaksin cannot find a peaceful solution, it may well threaten his position.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/asia...fic/3965241.stm

Published: 2004/10/29 12:19:13 GMT

© BBC MMIV

It sums up my feelings about Thai authority... somewhat ill-disciplined and prone to knee-jerk retribution for people who 'disturb the peace'.

Laulen

My Webpage

[Bong]

Muslims are involved in 25 of some 30 conflicts going on in the world: in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, Cyprus, East Timor, India, Indonesia (2 provinces), Kashmir, Kazakastan, Kosovo, Kurdistan, Macedonia, the Middle East, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Sudan, Russia-Chechnya, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uganda and Uzbekistan.

Amazing how many people are determined to shut their minds to even the possibility that this may not all be a coincidence. OK absolutely nothing inherently aggressive in Islam compared with other religions. All religions are equal blah blah...

What sort of peaceful 'religion' includes the concepts of 'hudna', 'taqiyya', and 'jihad'. Its a con. Its a disgrace and people should WAKE UP.

Of course as people say they know peaceful individual Muslims sure but its best to look around the world and see how they actually behave once they control a country or are in the majority rather than what they may say. The record overall is dismal with few exceptions.

Sure the Thais overreacted but what are they supposed to do with a baying mob of 1500. They were frightened and frustrated. In practice the alternatives tend to develop into concessions, appeasement, and retreat followed by more demands.

Bong

[Nam Kao]

Amen Bong,

When will these Liberals wake up

[guran]

Muslims are involved in 25 of some 30 conflicts going on in the world: in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, Cyprus, East Timor, India, Indonesia (2 provinces), Kashmir, Kazakastan, Kosovo, Kurdistan, Macedonia, the Middle East, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Sudan, Russia-Chechnya, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uganda and Uzbekistan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And in how many of these conflicts are christians also involved ?

btw you should get your list updated. No conflicts are ongoing in kosovo,macedonia,bosnia ,east timor or cyprus.

Many of the other cases are purely internal conflicts.

There is a large number of muslims in the world ,it is therefore not surprising that they are involved in a number of conflicts as are christians.

[stroll]

In fact, if one considered the many comments describing Islam and its followers as 'evil', and the methods proposed to 'eradicate' evil Islam, including torture, murder and genocide, one cannot help but wonder who the warmongers leading a modern day crusade really are?

It is much more worrying on other websites, which are infested with American Christian fundamentalist sects which will stop at nothing.

I am glad that in Thailand Christians are a negligable minority and I hope Thai authorities and the public wake up after recent events, and turn their full attention to seeking a peaceful solution in the South.

[thaidancer]

Muslims are involved in 25 of some 30 conflicts going on in the world: in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, Cyprus, East Timor, India, Indonesia (2 provinces), Kashmir, Kazakastan, Kosovo, Kurdistan, Macedonia, the Middle East, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Sudan, Russia-Chechnya, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uganda and Uzbekistan.

Amazing how many people are determined to shut their minds to even the possibility that this may not all be a coincidence. OK absolutely nothing inherently aggressive in Islam compared with other religions. All religions are equal blah blah...

What sort of peaceful 'religion' includes the concepts of 'hudna', 'taqiyya', and 'jihad'.  Its a con. Its a disgrace and people should WAKE UP.

Of course as people say they know peaceful individual Muslims sure but its best to look around the world and see how they actually behave once they control a country or are in the majority rather than what they may say. The record overall is dismal with few exceptions.

Sure the Thais overreacted but what are they supposed to do with a baying mob of 1500.  They were frightened and frustrated.  In practice the alternatives tend to develop into concessions, appeasement, and retreat followed by more demands.

Bong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All these conflicts are going on because of Outside influence, I meen who attacked Afghanistan first it was the Russians and the U.S. in the End supported the taliban and gave them money. The Russians are attacking Chechneya, and who attacked Iraq a country without weapons of mass distruction? In the rest of the world the muslims are fighting for freedom against their puppet governments which are supported by the U.S. and other western nations. Islam is constantly under attack from the outside world. And the term Jihad meens to struggle against something and it doesn't meen holy war. The Pattani problem looks like another of those British Empire deals gone wrong.

http://pattani-separatism.wikiverse.org/

Apparently the Brits promised them independence if they helped fight the Japanese.

[Bong]

'the term Jihad meens to struggle against something and it doesn't meen holy war'

Yeah right...

[SoCal]

Actually jihad does mean to struggle against something.

The greatest jihad is a personal jihad which brings you to Allah.

Just been perverted by those who are radical.

Having read both the Koran and the Bible, they both say inflamatory things, and they can both be used/interpreted/perverted by those who have personal agenda's.

Muslims are going through a phase not to much unlike Christians did 100-400 years ago.

You can either castigate them, or help them to bridge the gap that our ancestors did not so long ago.

PS- I am not speaking here of terrorists, but the people as a whole.

[stroll]

'the term Jihad meens to struggle against something and it doesn't meen holy war'

Yeah right...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What would you say the term 'crusade' stands for?

Yeah right...

[JemJem]

The point that me, Stroll and some other humanists here make should be clear by now. The same chorus of voices (Nam Kao, SoCal, IamMaiC and a few others, which now includes Bong, who cannot even get his facts right by stating conflicts in countries where there are no on-going conflicts) that love 'Muslim-bashing' should be considered as bigots because THEY DON'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ORDINARY PEACEFUL MUSLIMS AND EXTREMIST ISLAMISTS.

I myself (and I am sure Stroll also) am 100 percent against these extremists and some actions they do and some ideas they have really disgust me. But I am humanist and logical enough to know that they represent an EXTREMELY TINY minority of Muslims. I have many Muslim friends and they ALL hate extremism and even though the likes of Nam Kao would like to believe otherwise, they don't do every single thing that the Koran tells them to do. As I wrote before, some are regular booze drinkers. And, they have all accepted me, an agnostic, as a good friend.

Jem

[mouse]

The recent death in the south can be blamed on one thing only. You do not send the military for such things, you send police. The Military is trained to kill people and the Police (at least in most counties) is trained to Police. An over reaction will gain a like reaction and on and on and on ........

I feel I cannot truely respond to the problem in the south cause my country is doing much worse in other places throughout the world where it is a commonday occurance that children are killed and maimed in the name of liberty and freedom.

[IamMaiC]

The recent death in the south can be blamed on one thing only.  You do not send the military for such things, you send police. The Military is trained to kill people and the Police (at least in most counties) is trained to Police.  An over reaction will gain a like reaction and on and on and on ........

I feel I cannot truely respond to the problem in the south cause my country is doing much worse in other places throughout the world where it is a commonday occurance that children are killed and maimed in the name of liberty and freedom. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny how they called the Vietnam War a "Police Action" and they now call the US Military "COP of the World"

[stumonster]

'Hundreds to be charged' over Thai protest

From correspondents in Bangkok, Thailand

October 30, 2004

PRIME Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said today hundreds of Muslims will be prosecuted over a demonstration that led to the deaths of 87 people in southern Thailand last week, in a move which could further raise tensions in the region.

"I have received a report from General Sirichai Tanyasiri, head of the Southern Provinces Peacekeeping Command, that 300 of the detainees will be prosecuted, and more than 900 would be released this afternoon," Mr Thaksin said in his weekly radio address.

Security forces arrested about 1300 people after the demonstration in Tak Bai, Narathiwat province on Monday.

Of those, 78 were crushed to death or suffocated after being piled into trucks. Six were shot dead at the protest and three others were found drowned in a river near the protest site, the foreign ministry said.

Mr Thaksin did not say what charges the 300 would face. Under martial law, suspects can be detained for up to seven days without charge.

Faced with mounting domestic and international concern over the way security forces handled the incident, Mr Thaksin last night announced an independent commission to probe the deaths.

"I will set up an independent commission headed by Pichet Sunthornpipit, ex-Parliamentary ombudsman, and comprised of legal and Muslim experts and experts on crowds, to investigate the correct and fair information," a sombre-looking Mr Thaksin said in a nationally televised address.

Mr Thaksin did not say when the investigation would begin, or what time frame it has to complete its work.

Thai media, quoting a senator just returned from the south, reported today that the number of protesters shot dead during the demonstration could be far greater than the six reported by the government.

Senator Nirand Pitakwatchara was quoted by The Nation as saying that witnesses alleged security forces loaded three army trucks with 14 or 15 bodies each at the protest site.

Senators also said many of the people detained may have been innocent bystanders not involved in the protest, the English-language newspaper reported.

During his address to the Buddhist-majority kingdom, Mr Thaksin expressed "regret" at the demonstrators' deaths. He said he is not prejudiced against Muslims and would compensate the victims.

"I will try my best to restore stability in the south as soon as possible," Mr Thaksin said.

His words were greeted with skepticism among Muslim residents of the predominantly Islamic south.

"Most people do not believe the prime minister's statements and absolutely don't believe his assurances about safety and justice that Muslim people will receive," a middle-aged Muslim man, in sarong and skull cap, said in Pattani province.

Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has urged the Thai government to consider giving autonomy to the south.

"They can't attain independence. The most they can hope for is (the creation of) an autonomous region," he said in an interview published by the Utusan Malaysia newspaper's online edition yesterday.

Thailand's deep south has been gripped by deadly unrest this year which officials blame on a resurgent Muslim separatist uprising. Mr Thaksin said the violence has claimed 459 lives.

In Yala province, the bodies of two more young people were found shot dead and lying on the street yesterday, police said. A machete and handgun were found with the bodies, they said.

Meanwhile the toll from a Thursday night bombing in the town of Sungai Kolok, on the Malaysian border rose to three when a 23-year-old woman succumbed to her wounds.

A US official yesterday expressed concern at the latest violence.

"We do look to the Thai government to restore order and to prevent further violence and to restore peaceful intercommunal relations in the south," US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/commo...55E1702,00.html

I am sure he likes to refer to himself as commander in chief, though I doubt he could organise a pissup in a brewery.

[Bong]

'the term Jihad meens to struggle against something and it doesn't meen holy war'

That's its secondary meaning.  Its primary meaning historically has been aggressive. Yes it has two meanings.

Yeah right...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What would you say the term 'crusade' stands for?

The original 'crusade' was a response to Muslim invasion of the 'holy' land. The term crusade has no significant theological meaning to Christians.

Yeah right...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not helpful to Muslims to gloss over unpleasant realities.

Bong

[Harry2]

The point that me, Stroll and some other humanists here make should be clear by now. The same chorus of voices (Nam Kao, SoCal, IamMaiC and a few others, which now includes Bong, who cannot even get his facts right by stating conflicts in countries where there are no on-going conflicts) that love 'Muslim-bashing' should be considered as bigots because THEY DON'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ORDINARY PEACEFUL MUSLIMS AND EXTREMIST ISLAMISTS.

I myself (and I am sure Stroll also) am 100 percent against these extremists and some actions they do and some ideas they have really disgust me. But I am humanist and logical enough to know that they represent an EXTREMELY TINY minority of Muslims. I have many Muslim friends and they ALL hate extremism and even though the likes of Nam Kao would like to believe otherwise, they don't do every single thing that the Koran tells them to do. As I wrote before, some are regular booze drinkers. And, they have all accepted me, an agnostic, as a good friend.

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a humanist I am against all forms of bigotry and hatred - National Socialism, Communism, KKK & Islam. The problem is that Islam is a religon/ideology built around a uniquely evil & wicked man - the paedophile, & mass murderer Mohammed. You can no more build a 'great' religon around such an evil man than you can build a 'great' political philosophy around Hitler.

Islam is the creed that mass produces terrorists all over the world, there is no other religion that is simultaneously massacring Buddhists, Christians, Jews & Hindus across a number of continents. It is a perfectly reasonable question to ask what is wrong with their religion that mass produces this terrorist filth when the other great religions do not? The so-called moderate majority of Muslims regularly supports the use of terrorism in pursuit of political ends in Israel & increasingly the US. That is shown by the few opinion polls that are taken in Muslim countries & by the evil, bigoted rantings of 'moderate' Muslim clerics in the Middle East.

The irrational bigots are, firstly, the evil Muslim terrorists who are at war with the rest of humanity & secondly, the Western 'intellectuals' who turn a blind eye to every Muslim atrocity & then desperately scramble to excuse it. They are the moral & 'intellectual'equivalent of holocaust deniers.

Harry.

[yuyi]

The point that me, Stroll and some other humanists here make should be clear by now. The same chorus of voices (Nam Kao, SoCal, IamMaiC and a few others, which now includes Bong, who cannot even get his facts right by stating conflicts in countries where there are no on-going conflicts) that love 'Muslim-bashing' should be considered as bigots because THEY DON'T DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ORDINARY PEACEFUL MUSLIMS AND EXTREMIST ISLAMISTS.

I myself (and I am sure Stroll also) am 100 percent against these extremists and some actions they do and some ideas they have really disgust me. But I am humanist and logical enough to know that they represent an EXTREMELY TINY minority of Muslims. I have many Muslim friends and they ALL hate extremism and even though the likes of Nam Kao would like to believe otherwise, they don't do every single thing that the Koran tells them to do. As I wrote before, some are regular booze drinkers. And, they have all accepted me, an agnostic, as a good friend.

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are not alone. I think there is a silent group, which thinks very similar to you two, but who does not take the time to discuss when such uncivilized arguments are brought up.

It is more easy to let our stoneage brain take over and to stop using the more recent parts of the brain. But it means throwing away all what mankind did learn in the centuries of civilization.

The sense of justice (not revenge!) and human rights are very recent developments. Hate and fear is old, very old, it was there from the early days of life. It requires some effort to keep them under control, and not everyone is willing to make such an effort. It is easier to let hate and fear control you, and this fact gets used by many religious fanatics.

I made some bad experiences with muslims. Give a finger, and they took the hand, no, the whole arm, and also a leg. This did not prevent me to become good friend with another muslim. It is quite amusing, and sad at the same time, to see him arguing with his brother, when his brother takes the side of the extremists.

My friend can recite the koran, so they cannot tell him stories about what would be written there, he knows better. And he says that the extremists are changing the message of the koran. They go to the villages, where the illiterate people have not enough knowledge to discuss with them, and end up believing the message of hate which they claim is the teaching of the islam. My friend does actively argue with the extremists, and preaches that the koran would have a message of love and tolerance, and not of hate and intolerance. Whenever an extremist talks bullshit, he answers, and often the discussions get loud.

These experiences help me to understand, that, as always, generalizations are dangerous, wrong, and a sign of either bad intentions or a lazyness to think.

There are good people and bad people everywhere. There are people which prefer to hate than to think everywhere.

I see the hate many show here towards muslims. However I believe that, if they would have been born in a muslim area of the world, they would show the same hate, but now towards the non-muslims. If they would have been born in Pattani, they would have been there, among the ones which tried to free their friends, wouldn't they?

Because there are bad muslims, should we kill all of them?

Because there are bad christians, should we kill all of them?

Because there are bad buddhists, should we kill all of them?

Because there are bad ...., should we kill all of them?

And what do we do with the agnostics then which do not fit in any of these groups? Kill them as bystanders?

Joe Cocker comes to my mind: " ... thank god I'm a civilized man ..."

Am I? Are you?

==============

Over and out

[shemmy]

Thaksin better get his shit together,, that is all the dogmatic ammunition the zellots in the south need,(powderkeg is developing),,,, solution Thai style ,,, lots of$$ for the families of the deceased plus free tution in a BK university for their children,,, 2 birds.........1 stone,,,,,,,,,,,,,,comments?

[sonthaya]

>>>"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights

Is this guy talking about me, why that @Q#$$@#%

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And me too, f#### him

[stroll]

Funny how they called the Vietnam War  a "Police Action"  and they now call the US Military  "COP of the World" 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The last 'war' The US were involved in was WW2, after that it was all 'police actions'. Why? Because no nation has launched an attack on American soil since. All military interventions since were involvements in conflicts which posed no direct threat to the US.

As a humanist I am against all forms of bigotry and hatred 

.....

The irrational bigots are, firstly, the evil Muslim terrorists who are at war with the rest of humanity & secondly, the Western 'intellectuals' who turn a blind eye to every Muslim atrocity & then desperately scramble to excuse it. They are the moral & 'intellectual'equivalent of holocaust deniers.

Harry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are not a humanist, you are a dishonest hatemonger.

[sriracha john]

solution Thai style ,,, lots of$$ for the families of the deceased plus free tution in a BK university for their children,,, 2 birds.........1 stone,,,,,,,,,,,,,,comments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

only a paltry B10,000 (<US$250.00) to the families of the killed. no tuition, no other provisions.... but oh wait, I forgot, the Army did bathe the dead protesters prior to their burial in accordance with Muslim practices for free... so I guess that's SOMETHING...

[Heng]

I think the gov't is also going to increase the # of sponsored pilgrimage to Mecca trips per year for poor Muslims. I heard on the news that the current number is 300.