Arriving On The 18th Without Onward Ticket

[Errant]

Hello and thanks for an excellent forum! At the risk of making a too-long OP, I am going to give as much information as possible in hopes of some comprehensive replies, straight away...

Some background first: I am a U.S. citizen / passport holder, age 32. I've put myself in a bit of a jam and need to know what my options and best plan of action should be. I am ethnic Thai but a naturalized U.S. citizen (was adopted as a baby and sent to the states). Last year was the first time I went back and it felt like where I belonged all along. My step-mother is Thai (dual-citizen). So, I have extended family in Thailand (mostly in Bangkok). My long term goal is PR status. In between then and now, I want to get married to an awesome Thai woman I have fallen for and help my uncle to take care of my elderly grandmother. I also would like to enroll in a Thai language course, both to learn Thai in a structured enviroment and be elligible for an ED visa.

My current situation: I arrive at Suvarnabhumi on the 18th of this month and was ignorant about needing to get the one year visa before leaving my country. I had been previously told it was simply a matter of showing up with my uncle and paying the money, which I blindly accepted. The Thai consul in my state is currently closed and could not be reached by telephone. They are moving and wil not reopen until the 24th. To show just how blissfully uninformed I've been, the last three times I have visited Thailand, I never kew I didn't have an actual visa but rather the 30 day visa exemption. I knew it wasn't a tourist visa but I thought it was something else referred to as a transit visa (previous times, I had an outbound flight scheduled).

Only in the last day or so I have learned about the different visa types and the 90 days in a 180 day period rule for visa exemptions. As best as I can calculate, I've spent 27 days on exemption in what will be the 180 day period when I arrive on the 18th. My previous trip, I was stamped as ariving on February 6th. So that should mean my current 180 day period ends on August 4th, correct? Please tell me if I am mistaken.

My previous visits on 30 day visa exemptions:

18 October - 7 November 2007

29 November - 11 December 2007

6 February - 4 March 2008

What I would like to know is:

For immediate planning...

1. What should I expect from the immigration authorities upon arrival without proof of outbound travel?

2. What visa types can I apply for upon arrival? (I want the maximum stay possible).

2a. Which forms should I have completed before I land? How many photos do I need (I've read 2-6)?

3. How difficult will it be to change visa types, given my situation/plans?

4. Should I consult an immigration lawyer in Bangkok before going to the immigration office.

4a. How much should I expect to pay for a consultation or services, if yes?

5. Are visa runs still possible under the current enforcement of the laws and something I should factor in?

For long term planing...

6. What is the threshold to be considered as having "expert" skill? I have eight years of experience in the electronic interactive entertainment industry, ending with senior/lead 3D artist and game designer job titles/credits. Is that worth anything?

Finally, here is a loose plan I would like an evaluation of (please pardon vagueness):

A. Arrive BKK and take whatever durration stay the official at the airport will give me.

B. Within the first week, see a layer and with the help of Thai family/friends, apply to etend my stay for as long as possible.

C. Open a banking account. Probably at Kasikorn Bank.

D. Purchase a round trip (to lessen cost vs. one-way) airplane ticket back to the states with a 2-3 month stay in America. Use the time stateside to get approved by the Thai Consulate for either a one-year or ED visa (if I can manage to pay enrollment fees before leaving).

E. Not sure...

Thankyou for reading and (hopfully) replying. I will be glad to share any results as matters progress if it will benefit the community.

[Crossy]

You have a lot of questions, good that you ask, bad that you leave it so late.

Your problems will start before leaving home, you are unlikely to be allowed to board your flight without either an onward ticket or a visa You'll need to sort a cheap flight out departing within 30 days of your arrival, Airasia to Penang (book on the web) would be sensible as you can obtain a 60 (extendable to 90) day Tourist Visa whilst there (actual visas cannot be obtained within Thailand).

You say you are ethnic Thai, this implies you have a Thai parent (not a step-parent). If this is true you are entitled to Thai citizenship now, no need to fart around with PR. There are lots of dual-nationality members here who can help with you getting your Thai passport, ID etc I'm not sure how the adoption thing affects this, hopefully others will help, you will certainly need your Thai birth certificate (should be no problem if you have your natural parents details).

I agree, a chat with an immigration lawyer would be a smart move

[lopburi3]

If you have a birth certificate showing a Thai parent you are Thai and can obtain a Thai passport on that basis in US. That removes visa issues. If you have the birth certificate and arrive on a foreign passport you should be able to easily extend your stay one year at a time at Immigration.

1. Immigration is not likely to be concerned but if you do not have a visa the airline could refuse to let you fly.

2. None. On a US passport you are not eligible for visa on arrival. If you arrive without a visa you will obtain a 30 day visa exempt stamp (as you have in the past). No photos are required.

3. Read preface - if you need visa, you mention ED, you will have to exit country and visit a Consulate such as Vientiane or Penang to obtain after getting school documents.

4. You have no reason to visit Immigration - if you extend on basis of birth certificate no lawyer is needed. If you have no proof of being Thai then there is no extension of stay available. Once married or start education options would open.

5. Yes both tourist visa and visa exempt runs are possible. You really should have tried to obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa from an Honorary Consulate showing your Thai origins as that would make stay much easier of you can not extend your stay.

6. Can only suspect it is not what was intended by the 'expert' word - expect they are talking about for government positions rather than business but that is only a guess.

a. If you can obtain a visa I would do so. But should work if airline will fly you.

b. No lawyers should be required if you have proof of Thai birth. Extension of stay for that is very easy and costs 1,900 baht.

c. K is often mentioned as good now - but BBL is also actively seeking foreign customers from current reporting and many also like SCB.

d. There is no need to return to US for ED visa - if it is in your plans fine - but also get a Thai passport and then you will never need a visa.

e. Always a factor.

[Errant]

Thankyou both for such detailed replies.

You say you are ethnic Thai, this implies you have a Thai parent (not a step-parent). If this is true you are entitled to Thai citizenship now, no need to fart around with PR

It is sort of odd, really. My adopting mom passed away in '96. Eight years ago, my dad married a Thai woman. It is her family which I refer to as my extended Thai family. It is also the house she owns where I stay and her mother whom I wish to help care for.

After I started this thread, there have been a couple developments...

The niece of one of my step-mom's good friend is a lawyer. I have been instructed to contact her for some assistance once I arrive. I will be bringing my Thai birth certificate with details such as my given name and the names of my biological parents. I also have my original passeport (Thai/French) from 1976 with my Thai name in romanized text which corresponds to the Thai birth certificate. Additionally, I am taking copies of my parents marriage license and my step-mom's Thai ID card. I will also be bringing a copy of my U.S. issued birth certificate which has my adopting dad's name on it and my American name which corresponds to my U.S. pasport (it also lists Bangkok as my place of birth). She insists I don't need any sort of notary embossment for the copies but I will be getting them just for my peace of mind.

Immigration is not likely to be concerned but if you do not have a visa the airline could refuse to let you fly.

Your problems will start before leaving home, you are unlikely to be allowed to board your flight without either an onward ticket or a visa

Thankyou so much for this info. I was unaware of this. If it makes any difference (I notice you both seem to indicate it is not necesecarily set-in-stone), my last leg is from Seoul Inchen (ICN) to BKK on Asiana Airlines.

How long should I schedule to stay in Penang? It sounds like a possibility that if I can get things squared away about establishing Thai origin that I might not need the visa run aspect of it so much as just so the airline will let me board to BKK (in which case the ticket just becomes 3000 baht napkin), right?

Now, is the Thai passport something I can obtain while in Bangkok (with the combination of lawer and documents described above)? Or is it something I can only obtain outside of the kingdom?

Thanks again for all the help. If I had a time machine, this might be one of those things I'd waste it on. Going back a couple months to get a proper visa sorted. However, if I am allowed to obtain an Thai passport or simply extend stay based on birthplace, that would be far better than any scenario I've played out in my head.

[lopburi3]

Actually the Thai passport is very easy to obtain outside Thailand with birth certificate and old documents as you have. Inside Thailand you will probably have to obtain ID card prior to passport and meet a lot of head scratching by people not aware of the applicable laws.

You can buy a refundable ticket if you have the money and get most everything back - but just a napkin low fare to Singapore will do.

If you need a visa you apply in morning and pick up next workday afternoon at almost all Consulates

[jitenshaman]

Just to go back to your initial question about flying out and lack of a visa:

The earlier poster was right in that your only problem will be in the US where the airline may try to refuse boarding due to your not having a visa. I live in Thailand now, but used to go through that several times while in the US, coming here on one way or on extended month tickets. I never had problems with the Asian carriers, so if you are on Asiana, you may be fine. I did have problems on United though. A few times I was able to show stamps in my passport showing that I did this every year (coming to Thailand visa free, and then going over to Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc) with all the stamps proving what I did...there are several ways around any problems should you have them..one, go to the airport, if they make trouble, ask to see a supervisor and tell them your plans (of going to other SE Asian countries), 2) if that doesn't work, find an internet cafe in the airport and book the cheapest Air Asia ticket online out of Bkk (2000 baht or so), 3) you can also use a credit card to buy the most expensive fully refundable ticket on Japan Airlines, Thai, or a major carrier, a return ticket to the US...and then when you arrive at your destination, go in to the carrier's office and cancel the ticket, getting a 100% refund...all of the above methods have and will work. Chok dee.

[Errant]

I never had problems with the Asian carriers, so if you are on Asiana, you may be fine. I did have problems on United though.

Thankyou for clarification on that. My domestic flight is with United but I will be leaving SFO on Asiana. I have a 3 hour layover which should be ample time to purchase a ticket if need be. However, it really depends on answers to my next question. I do have one checked bag which will be going all the way through though.

Actually the Thai passport is very easy to obtain outside Thailand with birth certificate and old documents as you have. Inside Thailand you will probably have to obtain ID card prior to passport and meet a lot of head scratching by people not aware of the applicable laws.

How long would it take to obtain a Thai passport and which locations could it be achieved at? Other than to travel all the way back to the U.S., that is. Could it be done (easily) in Vientiane or Penang?

I am of modest means, so while I don't mind spending a few thousand THB here and there as needed, I'd very much like to avoid spending the 30-40K (at minimum) it will cost me to fly back to the states. However, if things seem quite problematic after I arrive, it does seem a bit of a no-brainer to return to the U.S. and get things sorted hassle-free.

On a side note. This morning, I located two more old documents. One is the english version of my Thai birth certificate and the other is about the adoption. Both stamped from the Asst. registrar of Bangkok Yai District. I had been curious about the area where I was concieved but heard it has been redeveloped and is now a freeway or something like that.

Thanks again for all the help!

[DCasper]

Just on applying for a Thai Passport. My Son was born outside of Thailand. We got him registered with the Thai Embassy. Birth Doc in Thai. Were informed just had to take paperwork into Bangkok he can get his Passport.

Went into the Bangkok Office were informed my son will have to be put into the Family Book. I do not know if this can be done in Bangkok, but for some reason we went to Udon Thani which is not quiet in Bangkok. Went to the Local office were informed will have to wait 10 to 20 Days for this to be done. My Wife was no willing to pay the normal Thai Speed it up Fee, She had the sh*ts on.

Will try again after August.

I hope you have no trouble getting your Thai Passport. I agree with Lopburi3 you would most likely be easier to get your Passport in the US save the Head <deleted>.

[lopburi3]

Do not believe you will be able to obtain passport anywhere other than US or MFA in Bangkok. Not sure how long it will take.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Just on applying for a Thai Passport. My Son was born outside of Thailand. We got him registered with the Thai Embassy. Birth Doc in Thai. Were informed just had to take paperwork into Bangkok he can get his Passport.

Went into the Bangkok Office were informed my son will have to be put into the Family Book. I do not know if this can be done in Bangkok, but for some reason we went to Udon Thani which is not quiet in Bangkok. Went to the Local office were informed will have to wait 10 to 20 Days for this to be done. My Wife was no willing to pay the normal Thai Speed it up Fee, She had the sh*ts on.

Will try again after August.

I hope you have no trouble getting your Thai Passport. I agree with Lopburi3 you would most likely be easier to get your Passport in the US save the Head <deleted>.

Tha advent of BioMetric passports means thay are all issued in BKK now. So getting a P/P in the US will be many weeks longer.

[Errant]

Thanks. It looks like I'll be giving it a go in Bangkok much like lopburi3 has described. More or less involves taking docs to the district office where my family lives and getting my name and address changed on the books to reflect the name on my US passport and the address of my uncle's house. All for a nominal fee (supposedly that district runs things quite cleanly and efficiently now). Then I can be issued a Thai ID card with which to get a Thai passport from MFA. Hopefully this will be achievable in a reasonable amount of time. If I get railroaded, it'll be back to the states, for me.

edit:

Tha advent of BioMetric passports means thay are all issued in BKK now. So getting a P/P in the US will be many weeks longer.

Very good to know. Thankyou.

[sweetchariot]

Tha advent of BioMetric passports means thay are all issued in BKK now. So getting a P/P in the US will be many weeks longer.

Not sure if you are correct there Dr PP, I just got a new UK biometric passport issued in Bangkok, so if they can do it I see no reason why the reverse would not apply.

[roygsd]

On a side note. This morning, I located two more old documents. One is the english version of my Thai birth certificate and the other is about the adoption. Both stamped from the Asst. registrar of Bangkok Yai District. I had been curious about the area where I was concieved..................

Thanks again for all the help!

Hi,

been following your posting with interest and you have had great advice so far by the look of it.

I am afraid that you are inviting some leg pulling by suggesting stating you are curious about the area you were concieved in though,I am sure you meant born but its done now!

In any event it seems you have been blessed to have adoptive parents that kept all your documentation for you, and this is goin to smooth the way for you no end.

You might like to consider carefully using a friend of the family to sort this out for you, it usually is not for free and even if it were why owe anyone a favour if you dont need to?

It seems you have a clear run, but dont rush it, take a day or two to get all the documents sorted and any other info that might explain things clearer just in case you deal with someone in authority that may be a little over cautious when making decisions, I am sure you are going to be ok, apart from the usual tension and stress that comes when dealing with offficals in Thailand that is!!

Good luck in your new life, but dont forget the old one either!

Regards

Roy gsd

[roygsd]

Tha advent of BioMetric passports means thay are all issued in BKK now. So getting a P/P in the US will be many weeks longer.

Not sure if you are correct there Dr PP, I just got a new UK biometric passport issued in Bangkok, so if they can do it I see no reason why the reverse would not apply.

Had the wifes passport extended in the uk two months ago, the biomentric is available in two years or so in th euk so we decided it was easier to extend until the biometric comes into force.

Roy gsd

[RogueLeader]

Your problems will start before leaving home, you are unlikely to be allowed to board your flight without either an onward ticket or a visa

Are they enforcing this now? Last year, I entered Thailand four times without an onward ticket - three times without a visa - and never had any problems at all, even though quite a few people told me that I definitely wouldn't be allowed on the plane without one.

It's probably not a good idea to risk it unless absolutely necessary, but I've never met anyone who was refused entry into Thailand for this reason.

[Errant]

I am afraid that you are inviting some leg pulling by suggesting stating you are curious about the area you were concieved in though,I am sure you meant born but its done now!

I suppose so I should say the district where I was presumably concieved (as I have the address where my biological parents were cohabitating at the time). Not so much interested in the area as could be measured in centimeters LOL

apart from the usual tension and stress that comes when dealing with offficals in Thailand that is!!

I think there will be a fair amount of that. I tend to meet head-scratching from Thais wherever I go once I open my mouth. I'm definately planning on having family and friend-of-family help whenever possible.

I'm going to see what I can cheaply book online tonight for an outbound flight.

Last year, I entered Thailand four times without an onward ticket

Can you tell us what carrier you were flying on and if these trips were all originating from the U.S.? Thanks.

I'll be sure to post detailed updates and outcomes as things progress and I can get internet access. Thanks again to all who have replied.

[JudieJoon]

I just returned from Chiang Mai on a round trip ticket with Korean Air. My stay was over the 30 day Maximum and they required me to have a Visa stamp prior to leaving the U.S. Just a heads up.