How Much Did The Seller Paid For The Property?

[Scott123]

In the U.S., the transaction value of any properties are all public record. Anybody can just go to the city/county recorder office to find out what the previous transaction value is for a certain property.

I wonder if there is something similiar in Thailand, where I can find out how much the current owner paid for his property.

In the case of "flippers", can I go to the developer and ask them how much they sold to the flipper?

[johnnyk]

Asking is cheap.

Answers may cost more.

True answers can be expensive.

What the owner paid for it is irrelevant. The asking price and what you are prepared to pay are relevant.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Asking is cheap.

Answers may cost more.

True answers can be expensive.

What the owner paid for it is irrelevant. The asking price and what you are prepared to pay are relevant.

How very true. And it is common in Thailand to mis-state transfer prices for a variety of reasons. A valuer might be the way to go to establish a fair market value.

[SnakeBite]

Be sure to have an unbiased valuer do this, not the bank (or sellers bank) that you are buying the property from.

[Gary A]

What's the difference what the seller paid? The price is what the property is worth to you. Speculators make money flipping property. If they didn't make any money, they wouldn't do it. I wouldn't recommend that anyone buy property that they don't intend to live in. By property I mean a condo that you can own in your own name.

[Scott123]

I can think of some senarios where it is advantagous to know how much the seller paid for the particular property:

The seller makes an "urgent" sale, and claims his family has medical emergency, or paying gambling debt...etc, and need money right away. Now I want to know how much he paid for this property, so I can make my bid lower than the price established by the valuer.

In the case of 'flipper', as the condo delivery date is getting very close, the flipper urgently needs money to pay the final installment. He needs someone to take over it 'quickly' because he does not have the cash to pay for the final installment. I want to know how much the original price he paid to the developer, so I can come in with a minimum offer.

[london]

Asking is cheap.

Answers may cost more.

True answers can be expensive.

What the owner paid for it is irrelevant. The asking price and what you are prepared to pay are relevant.

100% correct!

[think_too_mut]

Asking is cheap.

Answers may cost more.

True answers can be expensive.

What the owner paid for it is irrelevant. The asking price and what you are prepared to pay are relevant.

100% correct!

15 years ago, when considering buying a propety in Sydney, real estate agent asked me what my offer was. 210K was my bid.

He said - "but the owner paid 220K for it".

So, it had some relevance - it was inbuilt into the asking price.

Finally someone bought it for 240K.

30$ and you can have a report of all sales for specified post code in Sydney.

[quiksilva]

In the UK this information is available for free, at the local government office. Its quick and easy to fin, I believe it can even be done online today.

]

However, this information is not readily available to the public in Thailand. Everything is still hard copy, in paper.

The reported sales prices are recorded on the chanode by the land department though, but whether they let you see them is another matter entirely.

[midas]

In the UK this information is available for free, at the local government office. Its quick and easy to fin, I believe it can even be done online today.

]

However, this information is not readily available to the public in Thailand. Everything is still hard copy, in paper.

The reported sales prices are recorded on the chanode by the land department though, but whether they let you see them is another matter entirely.

And as someone said earlier in this thread - " And it is common in Thailand to mis-state transfer prices for a variety of reasons "

- usually to reduce tax payment - isnt that correct quiksilva ? And so I cant see how even a valuer in Thailand can establish

the true figures behind a transaction because if if he/ she goes to the trouble of asking the buyer and the seller to confirm

the price at which a property was sold, what possible incentive have the parties to the deal got of giving away private details

to a nosey valuer ?

[donx]

I agree with the OP that knowing the price paid can be a very useful piece of information. I also agree that this information can be very difficult to get in Thailand. For example if you went to the land office where my wife bought a piece of land not too long ago, you would find out that the purchase price documented was less than half the price my wife paid for the land. You would have the false impression that my wife was asking way too much for the property (if she was trying to sell it now).

[nick2k]

Asking is cheap.

Answers may cost more.

True answers can be expensive.

What the owner paid for it is irrelevant. The asking price and what you are prepared to pay are relevant.

100% correct!

I totally disagree.

a story..

I knew this guy whom I will name "tiny eddie". tiny eddie was a first timer to bangkok. he didn't know anything about the country. one day, I took him to pattaya to show him one of the beach scenes in thailand. we stayed at this hotel named sea breeze. in the morning, we got up and went to lay on the beach. when I got hungry, I thought to treat him to some "chicken on the stick" great tasting stuff, I paid 30 baht per stick. when I surprised tiny eddie with the food, he was estatic. after the meal, he said he would treat me the next day. so, the next day comes around, and he buys the "chicken on the stick" for us to eat. I asked him how he paid for it. and his reply was 300 baht per stick. I stood up immediately and asked him why he paid that much. and his reply was he couldn't talk to the vendor, and just decided to pay the money. he thought 300 baht per stick was ok.

when I told tiny eddie that the cost should be 30 baht per stick, guess what he said to me? ..golly, you are one of the cheapest guys I have ever met. that chicken on the stick is worth more. and if I had the money, I would pay the vendor more.

I just sat back and laughed at him. the saying, "a fool and his money are soon departed" comes to mind.

THIS IS A TRUE STORY.

do you want to know where tiny eddie is now? ..he's broke and will probably never be able to come back to thailand anymore.

one should always find out what the previous price of something - anything. and if the seller doesn't tell you, leave.

don't be a tiny eddie. and broke.

[dave111223]

So i guess Tiny Eddie should have found out what the chicken stick raw materials cost the vendor a few years ago and offered to pay that?

Finding out the price is different from finding out the cost (especial historical costs), so although your story is interesting and useful i don't think it applies to this situation.

Edited June 18, 2008 by dave111223

[quiksilva]

In the UK this information is available for free, at the local government office. Its quick and easy to fin, I believe it can even be done online today.

]

However, this information is not readily available to the public in Thailand. Everything is still hard copy, in paper.

The reported sales prices are recorded on the chanode by the land department though, but whether they let you see them is another matter entirely.

And as someone said earlier in this thread - " And it is common in Thailand to mis-state transfer prices for a variety of reasons "

- usually to reduce tax payment - isnt that correct quiksilva ?

Exactly so.

And so I cant see how even a valuer in Thailand can establish the true figures behind a transaction because if if he/ she goes to the trouble of asking the buyer and the seller to confirm the price at which a property was sold, what possible incentive have the parties to the deal got of giving away private details

to a nosey valuer ?

There are often times when a valuer is privy to true values and agreed prices, usually when appointed by one party or the other to do due diligence on the transaction.

[tangoll]

A number of posts have said here that what the seller paid for his property is irrelevant; the only relevant thing is whether your purchase price makes the property worth it to you. In another thread about under declaring the transaction value to the Land Dept on transferring ownership, quiksilva advises buyers to make sure that an agent or middleman has not put himself into the middle of this transaction, thereby sharing part of the proceeds with the seller. In other words, there's really two transactions, seller sells to agent/middleman (unknown to you) and agent/middleman sells to you. Good advice in Thailand.

In this case, you as buyer may well want to be aware of this double transaction, and of course, you would want to know what the agent/middleman (selling to you) paid for his property, even if the ultimate purchase price is worth it to you. No one wants to be cheated in this way.

By extension, I think knowing what the real seller paid for the property especially if the seller has held the property only a short period of time and it's a volatile market, is a valuable piece of information that would help you in the negotiating process.

Edited June 19, 2008 by tangoll

[quiksilva]

Actually its worse than that some middle men lie to both the buyer and seller. The seller gets a price they think is reasonable but in actuality its much less than the buyer thinks he has paid, but is encouraged to "under report it to save tax" - the difference goes in the middle mans pocket!

It doesn't mean you have to distrust all agents that you deal with. Some agents hate the though of buyer and seller speaking directly as they fear that they will be cut out of the deal (this happens ).

So I suggest meeting the seller with the agent on the day of transfer, this way you can verify that all is at it should be and you can make it an event too, why not? After all it should be a big day for you!

Edited June 19, 2008 by quiksilva

[ThaiLawOnline]

If the title deeds are Chanotte, Nor sor sam or nor sor sam gor, the land department will probably have a copy of the last transaction, as the owner too. These are the value they TOLD the government but not necessarely the REAL value paid, normally higher. These are not on the title deed, it's normally another document, a white paper printer on an old computer by the land department.