A Story Of Naivity In Thailand

[gisele]

Every day has brought me new and unbelievable information of his life that he kept secret from me.

It's like I was with some double agent.

I can't comprehend that I believed him all this time, how he could do all of this without me knowing, all the while being tendre, gentle, nice, thoughtful, helpful, and everyone thought he was a great guy, that I was lucky.

But now, I am living everyday in fear of what is coming next to bite me

Finance companies are looking for him,

only one example is that he apparently sold a car last year, pocketed the money but never paid the finace company for the money still owed, now they are calling me.

I have to sell my belongings, all my Chinese furniture from when I lived in Beijing, all my appliances, everything, the last 10 years of my life must be sold off just so I can get by the next few months.

[mssabai]

I really hope that you are not selling anything to help him, or dare I say it, his family. Please just think about yourself now. The Thai family support system will ensure that his family are looked after with or without your help. I really feel for you Gisele. This could have happened anywhere to anyone - he is a con man pure and simple. He was able to fool you his family, finance companies, banks etc but now it has all come crashing down. Just don't stay round to get hit by the debris...

[sbk]

Got to say I agree with this advice, cover yourself first.

[Goinghomesoon]

I've been reading this thread in conjunction with the "To Tell Or Not To Tell" thread in the Isaan section (in which the OP asked if he should tell someone that their spouse was cheating).

Okay, I'm not Thai but I'm human and I just can't understand how people could know but choose not to tell Gisele. In fact I feel sick when I even think about it. How can people claim to be friends or good neighbours if they were keeping such a big secret?

[mssabai]

I've been reading this thread in conjunction with the "To Tell Or Not To Tell" thread in the Isaan section (in which the OP asked if he should tell someone that their spouse was cheating).

Okay, I'm not Thai but I'm human and I just can't understand how people could know but choose not to tell Gisele. In fact I feel sick when I even think about it. How can people claim to be friends or good neighbours if they were keeping such a big secret?

You don't come from the same culture and shouldn't judge these people. They will think a) it is not their place or business b ) it will upset Gisele and may make her lose face (they may think she already knows and in telling her will embarass) c) may cause problems for them and their family if they get involved. It is not that they are bad people or that they wanted to see Gisele hurt...it is just instilled in their culture not to get involved. Repeat the mantra "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil".

Edited June 26, 2008 by mssabai

[gisele]

I sure do wish somebody would have said something though.

It is exactly how mssabai wrote

many said they saw me happy and they didn't want to be the one responsible to make me sad

some Thai women friends said they knew but because they didn't have clear proof, ( i.e. it was just how he acted, he didn't act like a good Thai man, though my farangs friends all thought he was a great guy), so they felt they couldn't say anything

others who had proof thought it wasn't of their business (like of his gambling or girlfriend or drinking)

and his family and children were just afraid of the repercussion, afraid of him

[mssabai]

I sure do wish somebody would have said something though.

It is exactly how mssabai wrote

many said they saw me happy and they didn't want to be the one responsible to make me sad

some Thai women friends said they knew but because they didn't have clear proof, ( i.e. it was just how he acted, he didn't act like a good Thai man, though my farangs friends all thought he was a great guy), so they felt they couldn't say anything

others who had proof thought it wasn't of their business (like of his gambling or girlfriend or drinking)

and his family and children were just afraid of the repercussion, afraid of him

The fear aspect is the really upsetting part of the whole culture of silence here. In the west I wouldn't think twice about telling someone about a cheating spouse, here it would have to be a very close friend. If they weren't I am afraid that most of the time I wouldn't tell either - I know some nasty stories about people who have got too involved and it has scared me off telling every time I see someone behaving badly. In turn I have to accept that only my close (farang) friends would tell me if they saw my man acting up. I wish it weren't so, especially for your sake though Gisele...

[Boo]

gisele

How awful, I can see from their side, esp without real proof. What would you have said if someone had said it without proof? By your own admittance, everything seemed fine. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but pointless. Just look ahead.

I hope, for your own sanity, that you are planning a break & to move away from the farm, start afresh somewhere else or just to rent your own place in town so you can carry on with work. Screw his debt, keep your beautiful things & take them & anything else of value with you. His family will eventually close ranks, no matter how close you are & how much they care about you, he is their son. He will win in their affections. Thats just the way things go. So think of yourself first & protect yourself. My thoughts are with you & the offer to call so you can rant or just chat will always be there

[Goinghomesoon]

Sorry mssabai I wasn't being critical of Thai culture, just saying as a farang that I didn't understand it. I felt a lot of Gisele's pain and debt might have been avoided if she was told earlier. Truth be known I was pondering my own little circle of friends and wondering what effect events like this would have on my trust in people.

Gisele sounds like you are doing a great job staying afloat under the circumstances. Hopefully things will all get better with time.

[bina]

going home...

now u say u would want to know, but if someone came and told u something about your kids or partner, usually reactions are of disbelief and denial... w/o actual photos and stuff, we are human and dont want to know bad things about people we care about... even if the proof is dangling in front of us....

gisele... really sorry to hear about your story... take your most loved or valued (or valuable) stuff, move it all somewhere else w/o telling anyone AT ALL... even those that u feel are on yyour side in the village... when someone leaves a debt, the next of kin like a wife is in line for paying which is the last thing u want to do...

dissappear, check out your visa status, and talk to a lawyer about your husband's debts and things ... do not pay them off, cause u dont know how much he really owes, and they can shake u down for more since u are in a weakened position...

get to your embassy and find out what rights u have from your own country and in thailand...

first act to save yourself financially and physically

later u can deal with all the bad and good stuff but it will waste a lot of energy if u do that now when u need energy for daily matters...

bina

on a total side note:

i have to admit that with this mini rash of cheating/scamming thai husbands, it somewhat makes me double check myself. of course i have to trust my partner, (thai or otherwise) but still, its making me take a good look at resources (like joint bank account we have) (well, my israeli ex got most of my money from my/our joint account but for anon i dont have a choice, he cant have a bank account here so we have to have a joint account which i really dont want), and budget managment/expenses (does he lie and say he bought food and actually buy beer , or does he tell me right straight out that he bought the beer, etc all this cause he lives part time in tel aviv (sin city)for employment purposes)

i also pay more attention now to how his friends treat him and who his friends are (scumbag types or really good guys, serious types, etc.... i'm not naive, but not crazy either, just learning from first marriage and also from here... like, the question arises, how will he be if we move to thailand? i know girls, lets not generalize, but the track record in israel of farang woman/thai man isnt exactly wonderful either (philandering/drunk thai husband after getting visa etc, heard several stories, and we are a rare commodity anyway here).

bina

[girlx]

Screw his debt, keep your beautiful things & take them & anything else of value with you. His family will eventually close ranks, no matter how close you are & how much they care about you, he is their son. He will win in their affections.

totally agree with boo on this...

Okay, I'm not Thai but I'm human and I just can't understand how people could know but choose not to tell Gisele.

i agree with you but i have learned 2 things that are especially true in thailand-- 1) it is dangerous to get involved. 2) the person you are telling most likely won't want to believe you and may in fact blame you anyway. unless it was a close friend and i had proof i probably wouldn't tell either.

[jingjingna]

I actually caught myself crying after reading Giselel's dreadful account. I feel for you and although I cannot wave a magic wand, you'd be welcomed into my my home, should you need a place to escape to or a place just to relax and think things through.

P.M me....Us girls must stick together!

[donx]

Gisele,

I found this thread after seeing your garage sale thread in the Southern Thailand Forum. I am so very sorry to hear about your situation. I know from our discussions that you had so many plans for the future.

You have been given some very good advice from others here. I can't really add to it other than to say I understand your pain and hope you emerge a better, stronger person from all this.

My heart goes out to you.

Don

[gisele]

Thanks Don,

When I was 27 my first husband died and all my plans for the future all evaporated, so I spent the next 20 years never planning too much because I didn't trust in planning. Then I meet and fall in love with this Thai man who made me want to plan and believe in a wonderful future together, only to have the rug removed from right under my feet.

I will miss Thailand

Gisele,

I found this thread after seeing your garage sale thread in the Southern Thailand Forum. I am so very sorry to hear about your situation. I know from our discussions that you had so many plans for the future.

You have been given some very good advice from others here. I can't really add to it other than to say I understand your pain and hope you emerge a better, stronger person from all this.

My heart goes out to you.

Don

[Boo]

Gisele, you shouldn't ever feel you were wrong for making plans & hoping for the future. It is what makes us human, I'm just sorry that these people stomped over that future & destroyed those plans. but never give up looking towards the future. It will mean a different future now but ultimately, a better one.

[desi]

When I was 27 my first husband died and all my plans for the future all evaporated, so I spent the next 20 years never planning too much because I didn't trust in planning. Then I meet and fall in love with this Thai man who made me want to plan and believe in a wonderful future together, only to have the rug removed from right under my feet.

I will miss Thailand

Aw, Gisele, my heart took a shudder when I read that. I am so very sorry.

And I didn't realise you were my age. I figured you around late 20's or early 30's.

I also buried a loved one. Ok, I was to the point of slapping him hard upside the head when he died (sounds awful, I know) but you can't be married and in love with someone for ten years without collapsing when they die so suddenly. I curled up into myself too, so yes, I do understand why you were so tender with yourself for so long.

I'm getting awfully mad at your present hubbie at the moment. Life is so short. Too short to to wasted on men like him. Darn.

Take care girl, ok? I wish you didn't feel the need to leave Thailand. This is such a wonderful place, filled with wonderful people. The majority anyway.

[gisele]

I wish I didn't feel the need to leave either. I love it here.

My husband who says he is no longer with the strumpet now wants me back, as if it was just a little hiccup in life, easily forgotten, easily forgiven, never mind all the other lies and betrayals. He has text-messaged me 83 times in the last 3 weeks, and countless phone calls which go unanswered.

"I miss you, I want you back, I want to make you happy, I was wrong, I don't want ***** (her), etc..."

I know his promises are empty, but he was able to soften me before, I don't know how strong is my resolve?

People around me have been supportive, which helps so much

I look forward to the day when I realise I don't cry anymore. A change of scenery, I believe, will help.

When I was 27 my first husband died and all my plans for the future all evaporated, so I spent the next 20 years never planning too much because I didn't trust in planning. Then I meet and fall in love with this Thai man who made me want to plan and believe in a wonderful future together, only to have the rug removed from right under my feet.

I will miss Thailand

Aw, Gisele, my heart took a shudder when I read that. I am so very sorry.

And I didn't realise you were my age. I figured you around late 20's or early 30's.

I also buried a loved one. Ok, I was to the point of slapping him hard upside the head when he died (sounds awful, I know) but you can't be married and in love with someone for ten years without collapsing when they die so suddenly. I curled up into myself too, so yes, I do understand why you were so tender with yourself for so long.

I'm getting awfully mad at your present hubbie at the moment. Life is so short. Too short to to wasted on men like him. Darn.

Take care girl, ok? I wish you didn't feel the need to leave Thailand. This is such a wonderful place, filled with wonderful people. The majority anyway.

[desi]

I wish I didn't feel the need to leave either. I love it here.

My husband who says he is no longer with the strumpet now wants me back, as if it was just a little hiccup in life, easily forgotten, easily forgiven, never mind all the other lies and betrayals. He has text-messaged me 83 times in the last 3 weeks, and countless phone calls which go unanswered.

"I miss you, I want you back, I want to make you happy, I was wrong, I don't want ***** (her), etc..."

I know his promises are empty, but he was able to soften me before, I don't know how strong is my resolve?

VERY strong, I hope!

People around me have been supportive, which helps so much

I look forward to the day when I realise I don't cry anymore.

Sadly, there isn't a sure formula for getting through that one except for putting in the time. I went through a bad spot when I arrived and never did find anything that would magically erase the pain. Well, except for anti-depressants, but I'm not much of a pill-popper so stopped taking them after two weeks or so.

A change of scenery, I believe, will help.

I don't know your financial situation but I do remember that you work. Is it possible to take time off or transfer to a different place in Thailand? Or perhaps just quit and work somewhere else? Thailand has such a diverse style of living going from city to country, it'd certainly be a change of scenery. And if you moved to BK in the interim, there's a whole bunch of TV ladies here.

[mssabai]

I wish I didn't feel the need to leave either. I love it here.

My husband who says he is no longer with the strumpet now wants me back, as if it was just a little hiccup in life, easily forgotten, easily forgiven, never mind all the other lies and betrayals. He has text-messaged me 83 times in the last 3 weeks, and countless phone calls which go unanswered.

"I miss you, I want you back, I want to make you happy, I was wrong, I don't want ***** (her), etc..."

I know his promises are empty, but he was able to soften me before, I don't know how strong is my resolve?

Get out of there!!! Fast fast fast. If my bloke cheated on me I know that he would eventually win me back if I stayed in the same vicinity as him...that's love for you. Better to get out of his reach until you are healed more and are in a stronger place. In 6 months you will laugh at the idea of being with him.

[donna]

i think that the best thing to do is to change your mobile number and give it to nobody who has contact with him. it will be difficult but i think that the absence of sms messages will make it easier - no constant reminders etc.

[camerata]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Gisele. The husband's crassness and selfishness reminds me of a friend of a friend's marriage (both are middle-class urban Thais). The guy got deeply into debt through bad business deals and has decided to solve the problem by ordaining as a monk. So apart from his wife now having to take care of the kids while all his debtors are after her, he has also told her she has to take care of his parents. As for the Vinaya rule against ordaining while in debt, he considers that since the debts will pass to his wife when he ordains, he himself will not be in debt at the time of ordination.

[girlx]

I went through a bad spot when I arrived and never did find anything that would magically erase the pain. Well, except for anti-depressants, but I'm not much of a pill-popper so stopped taking them after two weeks or so.

not to go off topic, but antidepressants don't even start working until 2 weeks or so after you start takng them. i wouldn't recommend self-diagnosing either (not that you did)... brain chemistry is not something to mess with.

If my bloke cheated on me I know that he would eventually win me back if I stayed in the same vicinity as him

yep, so many times i tried to get away from my ex but it never happened for long while we were in the same village. looking back, i am SO happy to be over him now (he was a yaba addicted freak!), and at one point i could not imagine ever feeling that, so chin up!

The guy got deeply into debt through bad business deals and has decided to solve the problem by ordaining as a monk.

ha- yes, both my ex's decided to solve all their problems by becoming monks. it seems to be a catch-all in thailand.

[kat]

Gisele:

I'm not sure how I overlooked this thread all this time, but it was an accident. I am so sorry to hear of your situation. Over the years, I have always liked and trusted your posts, and I know you are a very intelligent woman. I want to send you a great big hug - lots of them. If I was still in Thailand, I would have you come and stay with me. Lean on your friends now, and lean hard.

Get away from that situation now, and stay away! It is dangerous for so many reasons. Others have given good advice. Try to nail down what you can, but forget the rest. You have your life ahead of you, and you have built up enough to have some blood-sucking maggot at your side, you will build it up again, effortlessly. YOU were the one with resources, heart, and character in that marriage and nothing is going to take that away. Focus on yourself, Gisele, and let everything else fall where it may. It is out of your control, and time really is a great healer. Take care of yourself first, move on, and learn from this in reflection. But first of all - get the hel_l out! I don't care what anyone else on this board says about everything being all the same - it's not - and you are in Thailand right now about to make a desperate, dependent, conniving Thai man lose face. Leave and don't look back.

You were very brave to post this story. It is more common than people are willing to admit. The secret life, double agent thing is a big one there. I could've easily fallen into this trap, but I had some very nice lesbian women who worked at his restaurant tell me the score early on - thank goodness for them! They understood the sisterhood, but not many do. As for the strumpet, yes she was wrong, but she also had to digest a lot of confusing information early on. Don't focus your fury on that girl with the obvious low self-esteem and assorted problems, but on the scum bag who was not only betraying you emotionally and physically but stealing from you as well! Don't loose sight of that fact.

Keep yourself out of reach while you get your affairs in order and leave. I'm sorry about the daughter, but at the end of the day, broken families due to betrayal such as this one pretty much explain a lot about what happens in Thailand. Nothing you can do about it.

Leave, and if you can't get everything back, consider it the price of a good lesson learned. I have no doubt that you will be able to get it all back and more in no time. If I were one of your girlfriends, I'd have you stay with me and distract you with a nice gift certificate to a spa.

Chin up, it's really going to be OK.

[Nampeung]

Wonderful advice Kat, as always a source of great wisdom. I still have feelings for my ex but when I remember the three times that he lost his temper (his own anger management stuff) and the physical and psycological damage that did to me I must say Gisele that Kat's advice is good and sound, you have been hurt a lot emotionally and you will need time to manage that. I send fairies to you to protect and love you x

[lasycn]

It is so pity,let the man to die,you can find the other good one.

are you the woman in thailand,you can sell your farm too

.by the way,I cannot understand ,what happened to your daughter.

[gisele]

If i could leave today I would, however I am leaving soon, Im going back to China.

He has lost face already. He can't believe that I spoke up, (in the forum, the farang community, making a police report which I showed to his uncle the abbot who reprobated him, though I don't particularly think it affected him much)

He believes I am the one who made him look bad. Why am I not "shy" about this? he asked.

I have changed the locks, I don't sleep well though he was never violent, still I don't feel safe.

Oddly enough, the strumpet thinks he has money, (apparently contrary to his earlier comments she is still in the picture) and wanted some money from him. He didn't like it.

I despise the strumpet but I am no longer focusing my fury on her, she can get what she deserves, he is the one that did all of this to me, and I shouldn't lose sight of that fact.

I feel strong and assertive in the morning, but sadness sweeps over me as the day wears on. I am working on that.

P.S. How terrible that a man can become a monk and get away from his debts like that. If they could only put this conniving energy to good use.

Gisele:

I'm not sure how I overlooked this thread all this time, but it was an accident. I am so sorry to hear of your situation. Over the years, I have always liked and trusted your posts, and I know you are a very intelligent woman. I want to send you a great big hug - lots of them. If I was still in Thailand, I would have you come and stay with me. Lean on your friends now, and lean hard.

Get away from that situation now, and stay away! It is dangerous for so many reasons. Others have given good advice. Try to nail down what you can, but forget the rest. You have your life ahead of you, and you have built up enough to have some blood-sucking maggot at your side, you will build it up again, effortlessly. YOU were the one with resources, heart, and character in that marriage and nothing is going to take that away. Focus on yourself, Gisele, and let everything else fall where it may. It is out of your control, and time really is a great healer. Take care of yourself first, move on, and learn from this in reflection. But first of all - get the hel_l out! I don't care what anyone else on this board says about everything being all the same - it's not - and you are in Thailand right now about to make a desperate, dependent, conniving Thai man lose face. Leave and don't look back.

You were very brave to post this story. It is more common than people are willing to admit. The secret life, double agent thing is a big one there. I could've easily fallen into this trap, but I had some very nice lesbian women who worked at his restaurant tell me the score early on - thank goodness for them! They understood the sisterhood, but not many do. As for the strumpet, yes she was wrong, but she also had to digest a lot of confusing information early on. Don't focus your fury on that girl with the obvious low self-esteem and assorted problems, but on the scum bag who was not only betraying you emotionally and physically but stealing from you as well! Don't loose sight of that fact.

Keep yourself out of reach while you get your affairs in order and leave. I'm sorry about the daughter, but at the end of the day, broken families due to betrayal such as this one pretty much explain a lot about what happens in Thailand. Nothing you can do about it.

Leave, and if you can't get everything back, consider it the price of a good lesson learned. I have no doubt that you will be able to get it all back and more in no time. If I were one of your girlfriends, I'd have you stay with me and distract you with a nice gift certificate to a spa.

Chin up, it's really going to be OK.

[wolfmanjack]

The only place where I differ from the response of the others is that I'm a bit less harsh towards the other woman. She may well have been decieved by him just as you were...and for sure she's going to suffer plenty ion the future for staying involved with him. Let's keep the anger focused squarely where it belongs: on HIM.

Any one that takes up with a married person deserves to be boiled in oil. The deceived part only works up to the point that she found out he was married. As soon as she found out it should have been over 100%. Claiming his wife was only staying for the kids is no excuse. Do Not screw around with anyone that is still married, separated or not. When the divorce is final than it is ok to get involved and only after the divorce is final paper in hand.

[girlx]

agreed wholeheartedly

[kat]

He believes I am the one who made him look bad. Why am I not "shy" about this? he asked.

I have changed the locks, I don't sleep well though he was never violent, still I don't feel safe.

Oddly enough, the strumpet thinks he has money, (apparently contrary to his earlier comments she is still in the picture) and wanted some money from him. He didn't like it.

I feel strong and assertive in the morning, but sadness sweeps over me as the day wears on. I am working on that.

P.S. How terrible that a man can become a monk and get away from his debts like that. If they could only put this conniving energy to good use.

Yes, amazing, isn't it? The two comments in bold show you the extent of cultural differences that we are dealing with here. You sound good and strong. Your plan to go back to China sounds good. Keep yourself safe, and check in with us every day. Does anyone else here on this board have your personal information so that they can get in touch with you? SBK comes to mind. Do you have any girlfriends that can visit you or stay with you for a little while as you sell off your stuff?

When the sadness comes, call one of your friends or come on this forum to talk to us. We will prop you up.

*as for the strumpet and the parasite, don't worry gisele; it's a false paradise and will turn on them quickly. Luckily, it won't be your problem anymore.

Edited July 1, 2008 by kat

[sbk]

Gisele, I agree with Kat, please PM me all your details, that way if anything happens I can get in touch with my husband and let him know whats up. Not sure what he could do from the island, but he does know someone whose father is a high ranking police officer in Nakhon who might be able to help.

But know that if you feel the need to flee, you will be safe at our place. Don't hesitate to come stay if needed.