Falangs In The South

[Nam Kao]

One thing these terrorists like to do for attention is to Kidnap westerners

and hold them for ransom to buy more weapons etc etc.

Be Careful, You are an Infidel, You are a Target of Islam

[sbk]

Interesting point of view I guess. I live in a muslim village and I certainly am not worried. Where do you live that you worry about these things?

I might also point out something I learned from a Muslim man from Pattani who is living and working here. He said he had to leave home because of being harrassed by extremists. Basically, he said that people who join them get paid 150 baht a day and if you don't join you get serious trouble. He felt that the majority of muslims in the south do not support the extremists, do not want a seperate state, and do not condone violence. Mostly, he said, they just want jobs, homes, good schools and peace. Something the extremists aren't willing to allow nor the government to give. Historically, the Thai govt has ignored the deep south and it's needs, now it wonders why there is resentment.

[Nam Kao]

SBK, I have a feeling this thing is going to heat up fast and Kidnappings

would hurt Thailands tourism,economy, goverment etc.

And kidnappings are pretty easy/low risk to pull off.

-nam

[sbk]

true nam, and the govt doesn't help things out much when they show such a blatant disregard for people's lives. Tends to irk the moderates when people get killed like that.

Another point would be that the extremists in the South already have quite a few good money making schemes going on (extortion etc).

[meom]

SBK,  I have a feeling this thing is going to heat up fast and Kidnappings

would hurt Thailands tourism,economy, goverment etc.

And kidnappings are pretty easy/low risk to pull off.

-nam

How much you reckon a doped backpacker would fetch on the kidnap market?

I think a bomb in Nana or somewhere would have more of an impact.

[sbk]

Meom, just because I live in Koh Phangan doesn't mean the entire south is filled with doped backpackers (and neither is Koh P--try flogging your stereotypes to someone who doesn't know what they are talking about next time).

Many many tourists in the deep South are from Malaysia. Hat Yai's tourism sector is deeply hurting because many Malaysians are afraid to come.

[meom]

Meom, just because I live in Koh Phangan doesn't mean the entire south is filled with doped backpackers (and neither is Koh P--try flogging your stereotypes to someone who doesn't know what they are talking about next time).

Many many tourists in the deep South are from Malaysia. Hat Yai's tourism sector is deeply hurting because many Malaysians are afraid to come.

Don't take it personally SBK. Been to Hat Yai once and indeed lots of tourists from Malaysia come over for a quick fvk and some shopping.

However I don't think you find many high rolling westerners in the area.

[cojones]

I think a bomb in Nana or somewhere would have more of an impact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe its a good idea that the police are closing bars at odd times , as this confuses the terrorists , as they wont be sure when to strike .

all bars closing on a given time invites trouble , as hugenumbers of barflies and girls are milling around in the soi .

[SoCal]

How much you reckon a doped backpacker would fetch on the kidnap market?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is worth quite a lot if you are willing to detatch his head for all the world to see.

Terrorists can "fetch" a lot more than just money. Primarily attention to their struggle, fear, hurt the govt., etc.

[konangrit]

Fortunately kidnappings haven't happened yet and I'm inclined to think that they are not likely to start. After what the government has done recently these people are getting a lot of publicity in the west that shows them as an oppressed people. To start taking western hostages would lose any sympathy or help that some quarters of the western world maybe willing to give now.

Saying that, I still wouldn't travel to the deep south at the moment more due to worry of random violence and lawlessness. I think that that is more of a worry than being kidnapped.

Unfortunately the recent action of the Thai military has probably exacerbated an already very volatile situation. I think things will get a lot worse before they get better. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[axl]

...Unfortunately the recent action of the Thai military has probably exacerbated an already very volatile situation. I think things will get a lot worse before they get better. Hopefully I'm wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope so, too; unfortunately hatred and intolerance can not be stopped that easy like various related threads.

[p1p]

Like the United States election, there are strongly opposing views here and it seems many who hold those views are incapable of seeing beyond their own, blinkered backsides. Those who believe only in black, or white, can not understand the concept of shades of gray and their constant pushing of their views accomplishes nothing rather than to increase the heat, make things turn nasty and turn the debate into an unpleasant fight.

I am afraid I, or another moderator, will step in and close any thread that we assess is going nowhere, or in the wrong direction. So, please be moderate in your posts and debate, do not fight your side.

You are forewarned....

[wrksysact]

From the British Foreign Office website:

Still Current at: 30 October 2004

Updated: 29 October 2004

Thailand

This advice has been reviewed and reissued with an amendment to the Summary, Terrorism/Security and Health sections. The overall level of the advice has not changed.

SUMMARY

We recommend against all but essential travel to the far southern provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and Songkhla. On 25 October 2004, in Tak Bai, Narathiwat Province, over 80 people are reported to have died following clashes between protestors and members of the Thai security forces. There have also been a number of explosions in both Narathiwat and Yala, the latest occurring on 29 October resulting in over 20 injured.

Thailand shares with the rest of South East Asia a threat from terrorism. Attacks could be indiscriminate and against civilian targets, including places frequented by foreigners.

Watch out for crimes of opportunity. Theft of passports and credit cards is a problem. Passport fraud is high and penalties are severe.

Penalties for possession, distribution or manufacture of drugs are severe and can include the death penalty.

There have been renewed outbreaks of avian influenza (bird flu) amongst poultry in Thailand. There have been five deaths due to Avian Influenza since September. Travellers to Thailand are unlikely to be affected, but you should avoid places where you may come into contact with live poultry.

By law, tourists are expected to carry their original passports at all times in Thailand.

We strongly recommend that you obtain comprehensive travel and medical insurance before travelling.

SAFETY AND SECURITY

Terrorism/Security

Thailand shares with the rest of South East Asia a threat from terrorism. Attacks could be indiscriminate and against civilian targets, including places frequented by foreigners. Westerners were deliberately targeted in terrorist attacks in Bali (October 2002) and Jakarta (August 2003 and September 2004). The Thai authorities have stepped up their counter-terrorism measures, including increased security at major tourist resorts. They have arrested a number of terrorist suspects, most notably a senior leader of Jemaah Islamiyah. Members of this organisation were implicated in the Bali (October 2002) and Jakarta (August 2003) bombings in Indonesia.

There has been a resurgence of criminal and political violence in the far southern provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat and Songkhla. We recommend against all but essential travel to these four provinces. On 25 October 2004, over 80 people are reported to have died following clashes between protestors and members of the Thai security force. A curfew has been imposed from 22:00 to 06.00 in the provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala. The Thai government has declared martial law in some districts of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat, which gives security authorities extra powers of search and detention. The violent incidents are the latest in an irregular series, including minor bomb attacks, over past years in these southern provinces. The targets are usually Thai government personnel or buildings, although civilians and Buddhist monks have also been killed this year, adding to inter-communal tension. More recently, tourist hotels and bars have been targeted.

On 28 October, an explosion near a bar in Sungai Ko-lok town, near the Malaysian border, is reported to have killed one person and injured at least 20 others. Two bombs exploded in Narathiwat Province on 26 August; one in a market place, resulting in one death and at least 27 injured; a second damaged property, but caused no casualties. On 21 August, there were three explosions in short succession, outside tourist hotels in Yala, resulting in 13 injuries. On 29 October a further two explosions occurred in Yala, injuring 24 people.

On 28 April, there were attacks on security forces in 10 locations in these four far southern provinces. Over 100 militants and five members of the security forces were killed.

On 27 March, an explosion outside a bar in the Thai-Malaysian border town of Sungai Kolok in Narathiwat Province injured 30 people, some seriously. On 30 March, 1400 kg of ammonium nitrate, 56 sticks of dynamite and 176 detonators were stolen in Yala province, southern Thailand. (Thai authorities have since recovered 800 kg of the ammonium nitrate).

[IamMaiC]

One thing these terrorists like to do for attention is to Kidnap westerners

and hold them for ransom to buy more weapons etc etc.

Be Careful, You are an Infidel, You are a Target of Islam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I lived in Istanbul Turkey for three years... and other than the clothes some people wore and the mosques calling to prayer, I hardly noticed that I was in an Islamic country. I enjoyed Turkey so much that I have visited almost every year since I left 9 years ago. Never once did anybody ever try to introduce me to the Moslem faith, or question my own beliefs, which are agnostic. I was always made to feel welcome and treated extremely well. I never felt like an Infidel or felt I was a target of Islam. And I certainly made more good friends there than I have in 9 years in Greece.

I have lived in half a dozen countries and visited 20 or so, including the USA many times. The place I enjoyed myself the most was in Istanbul... an Islamic country.

Where does your 'experience' of Islam come from Nam Kao??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do the people in these countries think of their Radical Brothers?? Osama Bin Laden in perticular??

[sriracha john]

From the British Foreign Office website:

 

Still Current at: 30 October 2004 

Updated: 29 October 2004 

 

Thailand

 

This advice has been reviewed and reissued with an amendment to the Summary, Terrorism/Security and Health sections. The overall level of the advice has not changed.

SUMMARY

We recommend against all but essential travel to the far southern provinces of Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat and Songkhla. On 25 October 2004, in Tak Bai, Narathiwat Province, over 80 people are reported to have died following clashes between protestors and members of the Thai security forces. There have also been a number of explosions in both Narathiwat and Yala, the latest occurring on 29 October resulting in over 20 injured.

Thailand shares with the rest of South East Asia a threat from terrorism. Attacks could be indiscriminate and against civilian targets, including places frequented by foreigners.

Watch out for crimes of opportunity. Theft of passports and credit cards is a problem. Passport fraud is high and penalties are severe.

Penalties for possession, distribution or manufacture of drugs are severe and can include the death penalty.

There have been renewed outbreaks of avian influenza (bird flu) amongst poultry in Thailand. There have been five deaths due to Avian Influenza since September. Travellers to Thailand are unlikely to be affected, but you should avoid places where you may come into contact with live poultry.

By law, tourists are expected to carry their original passports at all times in Thailand.

We strongly recommend that you obtain comprehensive travel and medical insurance before travelling.

SAFETY AND SECURITY

Terrorism/Security

Thailand shares with the rest of South East Asia a threat from terrorism. Attacks could be indiscriminate and against civilian targets, including places frequented by foreigners. Westerners were deliberately targeted in terrorist attacks in Bali (October 2002) and Jakarta (August 2003 and September 2004). The Thai authorities have stepped up their counter-terrorism measures, including increased security at major tourist resorts. They have arrested a number of terrorist suspects, most notably a senior leader of Jemaah Islamiyah. Members of this organisation were implicated in the Bali (October 2002) and Jakarta (August 2003) bombings in Indonesia.

There has been a resurgence of criminal and political violence in the far southern provinces of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat and Songkhla. We recommend against all but essential travel to these four provinces. On 25 October 2004, over 80 people are reported to have died following clashes between protestors and members of the Thai security force. A curfew has been imposed from 22:00 to 06.00 in the provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala. The Thai government has declared martial law in some districts of Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat, which gives security authorities extra powers of search and detention. The violent incidents are the latest in an irregular series, including minor bomb attacks, over past years in these southern provinces. The targets are usually Thai government personnel or buildings, although civilians and Buddhist monks have also been killed this year, adding to inter-communal tension. More recently, tourist hotels and bars have been targeted.

On 28 October, an explosion near a bar in Sungai Ko-lok town, near the Malaysian border, is reported to have killed one person and injured at least 20 others. Two bombs exploded in Narathiwat Province on 26 August; one in a market place, resulting in one death and at least 27 injured; a second damaged property, but caused no casualties. On 21 August, there were three explosions in short succession, outside tourist hotels in Yala, resulting in 13 injuries. On 29 October a further two explosions occurred in Yala, injuring 24 people.

On 28 April, there were attacks on security forces in 10 locations in these four far southern provinces. Over 100 militants and five members of the security forces were killed.

On 27 March, an explosion outside a bar in the Thai-Malaysian border town of Sungai Kolok in Narathiwat Province injured 30 people, some seriously. On 30 March, 1400 kg of ammonium nitrate, 56 sticks of dynamite and 176 detonators were stolen in Yala province, southern Thailand. (Thai authorities have since recovered 800 kg of the ammonium nitrate).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure this isn't taken from a Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) travel promotion pamphlet?

[brianbrain]

SBK,  I have a feeling this thing is going to heat up fast and Kidnappings

would hurt Thailands tourism,economy, goverment etc.

And kidnappings are pretty easy/low risk to pull off.

-nam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How much you reckon a doped backpacker would fetch on the kidnap market?

I think a bomb in Nana or somewhere would have more of an impact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure of the price, but I know most people would care more for [most probably] a recent graduate on a round-the-world backpacking tour than some sad fat bastard doing the bars and bargirls at Nana. Old gits and sex tourists aren't high up on most peoples lists, or do you think otherwise?

[meom]

SBK,  I have a feeling this thing is going to heat up fast and Kidnappings

would hurt Thailands tourism,economy, goverment etc.

And kidnappings are pretty easy/low risk to pull off.

-nam

How much you reckon a doped backpacker would fetch on the kidnap market?

I think a bomb in Nana or somewhere would have more of an impact.

Not sure of the price, but I know most people would care more for [most probably] a recent graduate on a round-the-world backpacking tour than some sad fat bastard doing the bars and bargirls at Nana. Old gits and sex tourists aren't high up on most peoples lists, or do you think otherwise?

I don't care one way or the other. I just think that a bomb in a packed tourist spot would make more impact than the kidnapping of someone.

Reason why I refer to doped backpacker is because in my opinion these are most likely to wander of the beaten tourist track and suddenly find themselves in a hot spot.

In the end it don't really matter

[stroll]

The problems in Southern Thailand are Thailand specific, with a strong religious aspect. Not to be mistaken as a war against infidels. Foreigners are not purposefully targeted, but it has been stated that they will not be excluded.

Catch the different emphasis and nuance here.

There has not been any indication that kidnapping is on the menu, and I hope it won't be. Myself, as others who live in Thailand, don't see it as a concern, fear for personal safety outside the identified region is just that at present: fear.

I'd like to read more comments from people who live or travel in the South?

[QUOTE]

SBK,  I have a feeling this thing is going to heat up fast and Kidnappings

would hurt Thailands tourism,economy, goverment etc.

And kidnappings are pretty easy/low risk to pull off.

-nam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How much you reckon a doped backpacker would fetch on the kidnap market?

I think a bomb in Nana or somewhere would have more of an impact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure of the price, but I know most people would care more for [most probably] a recent graduate on a round-the-world backpacking tour than some sad fat bastard doing the bars and bargirls at Nana. Old gits and sex tourists aren't high up on most peoples lists, or do you think otherwise?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't care one way or the other. I just think that a bomb in a packed tourist spot would make more impact than the kidnapping of someone.

Reason why I refer to doped backpacker is because in my opinion these are most likely to wander of the beaten tourist track and suddenly find themselves in a hot spot.

In the end it don't really matter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What would happen if someone planted a bomb in one of the big BKK discoes? the tourism industry would be destroyed here.

[phormio]

...

What would happen if someone planted a bomb in one of the big BKK discoes? the tourism industry would be destroyed here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the skytrain/subway makes a more logical target.

[patta]

Pattani – Muslim people in the South is Thai and respect the King and Queen. The must muslims make no problem and are good people there is a very very small group what problems makes.

The people here will that the problems stops quickly and everything normal is without Army here.

The people don’t trust the Army, Police, Government, must people on the high postions are from other regions she don’t understand the problems, some of them have many comments about muslim people.

The last two years Pattani Muang District modernize many new buildings, shops and also new roads and new foot paths in complete Muang District what you not see in other cities. Since begin October is there a new Governor in Pattani this was 2 years before Deputy-Governor what better is for the province.

I feel my more safe in Pattani than in other places and many other countries.

[Padkapow Guy]

The problems in Southern Thailand are Thailand specific, with a strong religious aspect. Not to be mistaken as a war against infidels. Foreigners are not purposefully targeted, but it has been stated that they will not be excluded.

Catch the different emphasis and nuance here.

There has not been any indication that kidnapping is on the menu, and I hope it won't be. Myself, as others who live in Thailand, don't see it as a concern, fear for personal safety outside the identified region is just that at present: fear.

I'd like to read more comments from people who live or travel in the South?

The last time I was in Phuket was when the invasion of Iraq was just starting. My wife told me she heard alot negative comments about Americans from the local there. She told me she thought it would be better if we left and went back to prachinburi. I refused to leave the beautiful beaches and told her we would take our chances. I did get an uneasy feeling while there, but all in all had a good time.

I think next time we will stay in Krabi, It appeared to me that the people were nicer and not so money hungry.