Realtors Evaluation Of Property.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I'm considering selling a condo and a realtor is evaluating it. Came by took a lot of photos looked around ask a few questions and said they would be back with us in a few days with a evaluation.

Do these evaluations usually give a reasonable and realistic price?

Any info appreciated.

[quiksilva]

It all depends on who you use. You say a realtor. Do you mean a Valuer or an Agent? Two distinct roles.

If a valuer then usually yes. There should be about a 10% margin of error. (rough numbers here guys it varies the larger the property the smaller the acceptable margin).

If professionally undertaken their figures will be supported by plenty of recent appropriate comparable evidence that will support your pricing when going out to market.

Good agents will adopt the same practices when undertaking broker opinions of value (If they even do this at all). These are not formal valuations, that can be relied upon for lending purposes etc but should also provide an accurate guide of likely achievable sales price.

The quality of this advice, their report, and methodology will clearly show the level of their capability.

[BiggyD]

I'm considering selling a condo and a realtor is evaluating it. Came by took a lot of photos looked around ask a few questions and said they would be back with us in a few days with a evaluation.

Do these evaluations usually give a reasonable and realistic price?

Any info appreciated.

I would suggest using a different realtor. Any decent realtor would give an on the spot valuation. They should know the building well and have a history of selling units in the project. At least they should know some kind of recent sales history for similar apartments and know the value of other buildings/units that would be classed as competition for your unit. If they cannot provide such info I would get a realtor that does. A good realtor is a great help, problem here is that 90% of them are naive idiots with no idea of the market or marketing.....

[glyph]

"Any info appreciated..."

Every condo building has a sales and rental office, and they can provide you with all of the information that you need: asking price, actual sales price, size and location of the unit, and the time it took to sell the unit.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

They did call call him the valuer.

Since we did an extensive remodel of the condo. Complete paint job, new ceiling, new baseboard, new cornice, new electrical (36 power points many with on/off swithces) dimmer on most lights. New plumbing, completely redone Teak floor. New tile/marble in bathrooms. Removed all windows and reworked them replacing all the parts etc. All new ceiling lights, 84 of them. And a new kitchen with soft close, magic corners and very nice Granite counter top plus new mosaic back splash. Few other items like walk in closet in master, linen closet in bathrooms. Replaced the doors and added trim around them. The condo is on the beach in Cha Am.

You cannot really compare it with any of the others in the building. So the price is more difficult to determine. At least for me it is difficult to determine what is reasonable and what is dreaming.

[think_too_mut]

They did call call him the valuer.

Since we did an extensive remodel of the condo. Complete paint job, new ceiling, new baseboard, new cornice, new electrical (36 power points many with on/off swithces) dimmer on most lights. New plumbing, completely redone Teak floor. New tile/marble in bathrooms. Removed all windows and reworked them replacing all the parts etc. All new ceiling lights, 84 of them. And a new kitchen with soft close, magic corners and very nice Granite counter top plus new mosaic back splash. Few other items like walk in closet in master, linen closet in bathrooms. Replaced the doors and added trim around them. The condo is on the beach in Cha Am.

You cannot really compare it with any of the others in the building. So the price is more difficult to determine. At least for me it is difficult to determine what is reasonable and what is dreaming.

There was a sponsor here, Baht&Sold who had one cheap property on the list. That very same property was advertised by their owners, also on TV.

I got in touch with the owners, they organized property inspection. It was not good, the place was a wreck.

Downstairs, there were properties at less than half the price, advertised on the polls, cardboard kind of.

In short, what that agency said was 70% over what everybody else was asking for, in that building. Like aimed at Internet buyers who think the price is low (and may well be by US/UK standards).

We already decided we did not want it, just asked the owner if they have been around and seen what others are asking.

She sounded ( a nice lady) a bit surprised. She said - we don't know , the realtor said we should put up that (70% inflated, my comment) price.

Later on, I saw the same property adverised at 30% less, renovated in the meantime. Hope they sold it.

Edited June 23, 2008 by think_too_mut

[TheWalkingMan]

I would suggest using a different realtor. Any decent realtor would give an on the spot valuation. They should know the building well and have a history of selling units in the project. At least they should know some kind of recent sales history for similar apartments and know the value of other buildings/units that would be classed as competition for your unit. If they cannot provide such info I would get a realtor that does. A good realtor is a great help, problem here is that 90% of them are naive idiots with no idea of the market or marketing.....

I think that BiggyD hit the nail on the head with his response. A realtor should already have a pretty good idea of what's happening in his/her territory.

TheWalkingMan

[johnnyk]

realtors work in different ways:

1) values it on the low side to make a fast sale (and fast commission!)

2) values it high in order to get the listing

3) to get the listing, goes along w/seller who thinks his 2 millon property should fetch 6 million

Edited June 24, 2008 by johnnyk

[quiksilva]

Actually it is against SEC regulations to value a property that you intend to take on an agency role within the next two years, and vice versa.

Valuers who do this risk losing their SEC license and the opportunity to appraise the assets of public listed companies every year. A risk no valuer in their right mind should want to take. The conflict of interest is blatant.

I have not chimed in much before but I think its very important to distinguish between Valuers and Agents/Brokers. They are two very different beasts, with entirely different roles and core skill sets (although there is also the occasional valuer who goes on to become a successful agent (no names ).

[ProThaiExpat]

OP needs to consider over-improvement of his condo. By upgrading your unit much more than the others in the building, you will not do as well approaching your cost on resale unless your unit has been "aged" sufficiently so the market has caught up with your costs.

Having been in the same position on more than one occasion with condos myself. pushing the sales price ceiling in any condo building is problematic. The first to do it rarely profits from the experience as others leap frog over your price once you establish a new highest price for the building.

While your over-improved condo may well be worth more than the realtor may come back with, since they should be using sales of other units in the building as a guide, he really can include cosmetic features in his value evaluation.

Price per sq. meter is the great leveler. Yes, your entitled to the highest price per sq. meter ever attained in your building do to your improvements, but realistically, your unit will sell more easily since it looks so good, but cosmetics are really a sales tool, not a value enhansor. At least that has been my experience, and believe me, I have achieved double my purchase price in two years on more than one condo, but that was usually due to my "buy" of a fixer and then keeping remodeling costs to just above current selling prices in the building.

Condos are far more sensitive to price per sq. meter evaluations than single family homes. Another way of saying the same thing is that "amenities" have far less value enhancement in a condo than in a single famil residence. Which floor your on, for instance, affects price, but kitchen counter tops rarely do.

Edited June 25, 2008 by ProThaiExpat

[think_too_mut]

OP needs to consider over-improvement of his condo. By upgrading your unit much more than the others in the building, you will not do as well approaching your cost on resale unless your unit has been "aged" sufficiently so the market has caught up with your costs.

....

Condos are far more sensitive to price per sq. meter evaluations than single family homes. Another way of saying the same thing is that "amenities" have far less value enhancement in a condo than in a single famil residence. Which floor your on, for instance, affects price, but kitchen counter tops rarely do.

Agents/valuers should be able to tell how much spending in renovation might help sales.

In Sydney I heard them saying "max 20K A$, over that is a plain loss and does not affect sellability".

[Ungabunga]

From what I've learned is that agents who give an honest/realistic appraisal are often pushed aside and it's the owner/seller who dictates the price, which is usually higher. In the end, the property will just sit there, unsold as a result.

I've done it myself, telling the agent at the time what price I wanted in my hand after the sale was concluded. How many of you have done the same? It was only until I met a friend of mine who works as a broker that he told me the price was a little high and gave me a reality check. He showed me existing properties on the market and properties that had been sold within the last month and then adjusted the price accordingly. He even broke it down to THB/Sqm and demonstrated how far off I was. Within 2 weeks he had sold it for me, at what I know now is a reasonable price.

It's not rocket science, just that many who sell property here are just 'salesmen', not good brokers. I know a handful of good ones in Pattaya who really do know their stuff, but sadly I think they are outnumbered by the salesmen who are either too frightened to disagree with the owners when it comes to price or they simply don't know any better.

[steveromagnino]

They did call call him the valuer.

Since we did an extensive remodel of the condo. Complete paint job, new ceiling, new baseboard, new cornice, new electrical (36 power points many with on/off swithces) dimmer on most lights. New plumbing, completely redone Teak floor. New tile/marble in bathrooms. Removed all windows and reworked them replacing all the parts etc. All new ceiling lights, 84 of them. And a new kitchen with soft close, magic corners and very nice Granite counter top plus new mosaic back splash. Few other items like walk in closet in master, linen closet in bathrooms. Replaced the doors and added trim around them. The condo is on the beach in Cha Am.

You cannot really compare it with any of the others in the building. So the price is more difficult to determine. At least for me it is difficult to determine what is reasonable and what is dreaming.

I guess max difference of units on the same floor with the same outlook of say 10,000b per sqm (area including balcony) - that's about what your cost of what you describe above would cost I would estimate less a slight discount.

not sure which building, but the most you can hope for in some of those older buildings with fantastic views exceeds 100,000b a sqm. Majority of the projects can get similar prices to the new launches in Hua Hin (which is a nicer, more desireable location for Thais who form the majority of the market there) something like 60-90,000b per sqm for beachfront depending on view etc etc. Could be less however in a scumhole building and there are more than a few in Chaam.

I would use a local Hua Hin agent; there are a few good ones; we did some research on this a few months ago for a project, er, struggling to remember the name but recall Young and Voegels or something that sounds like this being quite a good one for flogging to foreigners.

[quiksilva]

OP needs to consider over-improvement of his condo. By upgrading your unit much more than the others in the building, you will not do as well approaching your cost on resale unless your unit has been "aged" sufficiently so the market has caught up with your costs.

Having been in the same position on more than one occasion with condos myself. pushing the sales price ceiling in any condo building is problematic. The first to do it rarely profits from the experience as others leap frog over your price once you establish a new highest price for the building.

While your over-improved condo may well be worth more than the realtor may come back with, since they should be using sales of other units in the building as a guide, he really can include cosmetic features in his value evaluation.

Price per sq. meter is the great leveler. Yes, your entitled to the highest price per sq. meter ever attained in your building do to your improvements, but realistically, your unit will sell more easily since it looks so good, but cosmetics are really a sales tool, not a value enhansor. At least that has been my experience, and believe me, I have achieved double my purchase price in two years on more than one condo, but that was usually due to my "buy" of a fixer and then keeping remodeling costs to just above current selling prices in the building.

Condos are far more sensitive to price per sq. meter evaluations than single family homes. Another way of saying the same thing is that "amenities" have far less value enhancement in a condo than in a single famil residence. Which floor your on, for instance, affects price, but kitchen counter tops rarely do.

Good posts by Ungabunga and Pro Thai Expat, so true!

Residential valuations / disposals are almost always an emotional matter. Eg I love the finishings that adorn my house but they not be to your taste. Most sellers love their home and so attach a higher value to the subjective improvements in the quality of fittings and fixtures because they are perceived to enhance their lifestyle. If you like what I did with the place as much as me then you pay more or will more likely choose that property over another. It is almost impossible to say that this will be the case with everyone, a Japanese /Chinese buyer may hate what you have done with the place (sad but true).

When I was involved with residential at the beginning of my career, we used to call this factor X and this is why I specialise in commercial and industrial property!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

They did call call him the valuer.

Since we did an extensive remodel of the condo. Complete paint job, new ceiling, new baseboard, new cornice, new electrical (36 power points many with on/off swithces) dimmer on most lights. New plumbing, completely redone Teak floor. New tile/marble in bathrooms. Removed all windows and reworked them replacing all the parts etc. All new ceiling lights, 84 of them. And a new kitchen with soft close, magic corners and very nice Granite counter top plus new mosaic back splash. Few other items like walk in closet in master, linen closet in bathrooms. Replaced the doors and added trim around them. The condo is on the beach in Cha Am.

You cannot really compare it with any of the others in the building. So the price is more difficult to determine. At least for me it is difficult to determine what is reasonable and what is dreaming.

I guess max difference of units on the same floor with the same outlook of say 10,000b per sqm (area including balcony) - that's about what your cost of what you describe above would cost I would estimate less a slight discount.

not sure which building, but the most you can hope for in some of those older buildings with fantastic views exceeds 100,000b a sqm. Majority of the projects can get similar prices to the new launches in Hua Hin (which is a nicer, more desireable location for Thais who form the majority of the market there) something like 60-90,000b per sqm for beachfront depending on view etc etc. Could be less however in a scumhole building and there are more than a few in Chaam.

I would use a local Hua Hin agent; there are a few good ones; we did some research on this a few months ago for a project, er, struggling to remember the name but recall Young and Voegels or something that sounds like this being quite a good one for flogging to foreigners.

Steve

You are very close in the remodeling cost. It was just a bit over that. The condition of the building is good and going to be much better soon, as the building juristic person just signed a contract to have the buiding painted inside and out. (inside being the common area). They are presently replacing some tile and giving the pool a general overhaul.

All in all they have done a decent job on maintaining the building. Things take a bit longer but they do seem to get done. The views would be very hard to beat. We have the beach in both directions a kilometer or so north and all the way past HH south. The mountains all the way to Burma (I think) and at night the Cha Am lights are great to look at. The location is between Veranda Resort and Regent Holiday Inn, closer to Veranda. Brand new concrete road and drain system. Steve thanks for your input, it sounds like you know what you are talking about.

It is Engles and Volkers that is doing the valuation, rather slow though, still don't have it.

[quiksilva]

List of 57 SEC TVA approved and licensed valuers here

Edited June 25, 2008 by quiksilva

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

List of 57 SEC TVA approved and licensed valuers here

Thanks for that quiksilva. Do you have any idea which one on the list to use, and also the typical charge? I hate to use the old throw a dart technique to pick one.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Actually we made the remodeling to suit what we like and what we would want to live in. In reality we have two identical units one on the 14th floor (which is complete and we are living in it) and one on the 9th floor which we lived in while the 14th was being done. The elevation is the only difference. We liked the way the 14th floor turned out so well, we decided to do the 9th almost identical. Exceptions being some built-ins like bookcases. Originally we were going to wait a year or two to remodel the 9th floor, but with material cost rising so fast we thought it would make more sense to do it now.

The 14th we have no plans to sell as it would be very difficult to replace if not impossible. The ninth floor we will sell in time depending on the price. If it should require waiting a few years to achieve an attractive price this is not a problem. The work on the 9th is not scheduled to be done until Sept. Will not be surprised if it takes longer as they are very strict on working hours here 8-5 no weekends or holidays.

The biggest reason for the valuation is to know how much $ to put into the condo. Built-ins etc. and whether we will furnish it or not and to what degree. Any suggestions on furnishing?

[quiksilva]

BTDT I'm biased because I work for one of them, PM for details if you like, and if you decide that you do not need the level of report that we provide (very detailed) we can suggest others.

Frankly in your shoes though I'd look to spend as little as possible on the fit-out but without cutting corners. Don't overspend on decorating a new unit that you intend to sell because you will see very little return, other than a quicker sales period.

Style wise keep it minimal yet comfortable, try to make it as appealing as possible to the widest possible audience. Think contemporary yet conservative in design and light in colour. Dark spaces (either through lack of natural light or interior design) are hard to sell. [its much easier for a buyer to imagine their life on a blank canvass than one which has already been painted!]

Bear in mind too that if its older you may need to spend a little more to achieve a contemporary look.