Oil Prices

[churchill]

If the US wants lower world oil prices they should increase taxes on fuel in the US , benefing the world economy especially the poorer nations ? I don't suppose they will , they will encourage poorer countries to reduce subsidies , which also helps but at the expense of the poorest who cannot afford higher prices .

Edited June 19, 2008 by churchill

[cclub75]

If the US wants lower world oil prices they should increase taxes on fuel in the US , benefing the world economy especially the poorer nations ? I don't suppose they will , they will encourage poorer countries to reduce subsidies , which also helps but at the expense of the poorest who cannot afford higher prices .

Welcome to the biggest scam, of all times.

They can't increase taxes... The US way of life (commuting, suburbs, etc.) is based on cheap energy (cheap oil).

And they can't increase taxes, because by doing so it would scalp the famous "US consumer" (the guy who love to buy 4 LCD TV from China to put into his McMansion, at 60 km from his work, paid by a fat loan).

Less money to "consume" = less profit for Wal Mart, bad for all the nation, very bad for the stock market (living under perfusion of dope since many years and still managing by miracle to attract foreign money).

Less money to "consume" = less money to pay back the loan for the house... More foreclosures, more prices decreases.

The "US consumer" is the core of the so called US growth. It's the main character of this virtual play. Behind : there is not much anymore (they sold the decoration, the technologies, and even the banks recently ).

I mean wake up : the real estate in the US is a ruin field. And it's not finished.

Some people argue : no problem, the USD is going to appreciate a lot, the new president McCain is going to take care of it, blablabla, so it will reduce our energy bill... and we will continue to "consume" 20 millions barrels of oil per day...

Here too it's pure science fiction : do you seriously believe that the FED can increase interest rates a lot, 1980's style ? With so much debt, so much leveraged debt, everywhere, under every american's bed ?

The credit machine has started already to implode. So ?

We are fxxx. And they are.

Unless... unless.... you believe (and I mean, afterall, why not) to some divine intervention : tomorrow oil go back to 20 USD per barrel. Tomorrow we find a new source of unlimited and free energy. Tomorrow an extraterestrial entity come onto earth and erase the debt of the USA and all its citizens, stuff like that.

Edited June 19, 2008 by cclub75

[britmaveric]

Taxes? Well already taxed well enough, remember most people commute fair distance from suburbs via car, no mass transport unless you are in a major city. So naturally oil needs to be low or salaries need to rise to compensate for higher fuel prices.

Oil commodity should be around $50-$75 a barrel, no reason for it to be any higher.

[glyph]

Adjusted for inflation, the price of gas in the US is about what it was in 1925. I'm not sure why you think it's up to the US to solve the oil price situation.

[thaiclan]

If they had the balls what they should do is close oil futures trading and make trading in oil more expenisive by upping the contract sizes AND making it deliverable. At the moment yes us traders can make a killing on short term oil trades, never having to deliver and blindly pushing up the price which effects the price of a commodity that has huge global ramifications.

Then again oil futures is worth so much will they ever have the balls to do it??

[Khun Jean]

I think high oil prices will stimulate research for other energy sources.

Solar for instance is still expensive but mass produce it and it becomes rather cheap. Wind is getting more popular, even nuclear. More energy options is not a bad thing for the future.

The problem now is that we have 'oil' economies and changing that requires a lot of time and pain.

And hedging everything has its downsides, maybe it should be limited.

[jamesinchina]

Why not Solar - is it too expensive ? I live in Dubai and do not see SOLAR panels - today I am in Dammam and do not see SOLAR panels ?

l

[churchill]

I noticed somewhere that during the 2nd World War , cars in the UK were being powered by oil made from coal ? and there are certainly no shartages of coal , but what effect on the environment ?

[Hadrian1]

Taxes? Well already taxed well enough, remember most people commute fair distance from suburbs via car, no mass transport unless you are in a major city. So naturally oil needs to be low or salaries need to rise to compensate for higher fuel prices.

Oil commodity should be around $50-$75 a barrel, no reason for it to be any higher.

And there in a couple of sentences or so....you see the problem. It's a part of the American dream. However, eventually, people are awoken from their dreams and have to face reality. Long term, it may mean the end of suburban life as we know it today.....in the US and elsewhere.....especially the US.

[helitool]

In 1940 gas was 20 cents per gallon. you could purchase 5 gallons for one silver dollar. Today if you take a 1940 silver dollar down to the gas station you can still buy 5 gallons with it!

Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

[PeaceBlondie]

True, much of the American landscape is suburban, and they still drive some gas guzzlers. But at prices of $4 per gallon or higher, they will trade down to more efficient cars, take more public transport, etc. If this price scenario continues, which seems likely. I paid 20 cents per gallon in Texas during the price wars of 1961. Some high-consumption patterns will change, others will remain. But you cannot change generations of cultural patterns overnight. My children just went to a family reunion where the furthest attendees drove 8 and 8.5 hours, from Brownsille and Amarillo. The richest members kept their RV running during the entire party. The kid in Ireland did not attend, nor did I. But the Irish, who spent a holiday at DisneyWorld last year, are all going to fly over for Christmas. My kids are not rich, but they do burn gasoline and jet fuel.

[Pakboong]

In 1940 gas was 20 cents per gallon. you could purchase 5 gallons for one silver dollar. Today if you take a 1940 silver dollar down to the gas station you can still buy 5 gallons with it!

Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

You have nailed it but your post will be largely ignored. Incredible really.

[highdiver]

all it takes for the price of Oil to go down is for the oil producers to sell it for less.

if oil producers sell contracts to refineries at 50USD a barrel then the price of the speculative market will go down in an hour.

no why should they do this ??? because as oil becomes expensive the food producing countries will raise the price of food. and the Saudi arabians will need to pay more... much much more fro the food.

so the can keep the price high and pay more for food or lower the price of oil and pay less for food.

the only ones to suffer from such actions will be those greedy investment giants who are now speculating on comodities.

[Hadrian1]

My kids are not rich, but they do burn gasoline and jet fuel.

Sounds like they do! But for how much longer?

[Hadrian1]

In 1940 gas was 20 cents per gallon. you could purchase 5 gallons for one silver dollar. Today if you take a 1940 silver dollar down to the gas station you can still buy 5 gallons with it!

Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

You have nailed it but your post will be largely ignored. Incredible really.

Agree! The printing presses are working over-time.......

[SNGLIFE]

Google Bart Stupak and watch the videos. He NAILS it. Also, currently at http://www.cnn.com/video/?iref=videoglobal you can catch his most recent presentation "Closing the 'Enron loophole'".

He makes the case that speculation by traders who WILL NEVER TAKE DELIVERY of the contracts they trade has increased amazingly. In 2000, 63% of those trading in the market would actually take delivery and 37% were speculators. In 2008, those who actually take delivery now only represent only 29% of the market and 71% are speculators.

Nuff said, BUT there is also the peak oil reality (or fear) buzz that is adding to the speculation. Is oil a buble at $130+? Of course it is, but nobody but an idiot can say where it SHOULD be trading. The fact is, it SHOULD be trading where sell price = buy price which is where it is now.

I will say this much, though: Having made a few nickles going long oil and short airlines earlier this year (in food commodities currently), I plan to short the hel_l outta it just before November. Bush and Co. policies are giving it the last hurrah push before he leaves office, and Obama is not the Oil Co's guy.

Remember the "Mission Accomplished" picture? Ha! That wasn't about the war. It wasn't a pose for the American people. That was about the oil. The pose was for the oil companies...and he certainly accomplished his mission..!

And BTW, if anyone thinks that a country screwed up enough to rack up $3,000,000,000 of additional debt PER DAY will give up its oil addiction needs to read and understand this blog, first:

http://crackcocainerecovery.blogspot.com/

Edited June 22, 2008 by SNGLIFE

[dotcom]

Why don't the mods merge this with last weeks topic on the same subject?

[dotcom]

If the US wants lower world oil prices they should increase taxes on fuel in the US , benefing the world economy especially the poorer nations ? I don't suppose they will , they will encourage poorer countries to reduce subsidies , which also helps but at the expense of the poorest who cannot afford higher prices .

If these countries are so poor, where do they get the money to subsidize fuel?

[VegasVic]

If they had the balls what they should do is close oil futures trading and make trading in oil more expenisive by upping the contract sizes AND making it deliverable. At the moment yes us traders can make a killing on short term oil trades, never having to deliver and blindly pushing up the price which effects the price of a commodity that has huge global ramifications.

Then again oil futures is worth so much will they ever have the balls to do it??

Thaiclan, you pretty much hit the nail on the head my friend While the oil futures market is important to the airline industry, large trucking companies and refiners, it is the speculators that have taken oil from $65 to $136/bbl in less than a year. I am generally against governmental intervention but in this particular case Congress needs to act immediately to not only curb the rampant speculation on the futures trading floors in Chicago and New York, but to demand that up to half of the U.S. strategic petroleum reserve be released ASAP. The coinciding of these two events would bring oil down below $50/bbl in a very short period and at the same time burn many of those same speculators who are the reason that oil has doubled in price since last summer. It has come to the point that this is now a national security issue and should be treated as such. While I am a great fan of solar, wind and geothermal as clean energy sources, even if we proceed full bore in those areas they will still only account for less than 10% of the U.S. energy needs 20 years from now. The U.S. needs to become energy independant NOW and that means opening up the offshore fields, the ANWAR field, oil shale in the rockies and coal gasification. I see CClub is still as vehement a U.S. basher as always, however it sure would be nice if he did at least some dergree of due dilligence before he posted, as oil consumtion in the U.S. has been steadily dropping over the last few years, down nearly 4% in the last 12 months

[SNGLIFE]

The U.S. needs to become energy independant NOW and that means opening up the offshore fields, the ANWAR field, oil shale in the rockies and coal gasification. I see CClub is still as vehement a U.S. basher as always, however it sure would be nice if he did at least some dergree of due dilligence before he posted, as oil consumtion in the U.S. has been steadily dropping over the last few years, down nearly 4% in the last 12 months

Major problems with this post.

Point 1: If ANWR were opened up today, not a drop would flow into the market until 2018+. By 2018, the global demand would be so high, that even flowing at maximum capacity, which would not happen until near 2030 or beyond, its contribution to the global supply would not even offset the declines in already mature and declining fields. There would be NO significant price impact at the pump.

Point 2: The 4% decline you crow about is due to demand erosion which is caused by the high prices. Drop the prices and demand shoots waaaaaay up. Econ 101. Furthermore, that is not GLOBAL demand. What we pass up in the US is immediately consumed by China, India, etc.

Stop getting your news from FAUX News and BOR (Bill O'Reily). They are all propaganda shouting zero-credibility LOOOOONIES with no basis in reality.

Edited June 22, 2008 by SNGLIFE

[VegasVic]

In 1940 gas was 20 cents per gallon. you could purchase 5 gallons for one silver dollar. Today if you take a 1940 silver dollar down to the gas station you can still buy 5 gallons with it!

Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Very true, with one exception there were no 1940 silver dollars, 1935 was the silver dollars last year of mintage. I also agree with your quote of Mr. Jefferson, what has been happening since WW2 is the exponential expansion of the Ferderal government and the narrowing of the rights and freedoms of the U.S. citizens. Mr. Jefferson, Franlklin, Adams et al saw the potential dangers of a large and powerful federal government and some of their worst fears have indeed come true already. The citizens of the United States once again have a "lessor of two evils choice" for President, if McCain gets in then there will be some dergree of fiscal responsibility but no major change in the way Washington does business, and if Obama gets in the size of the federal government could easily increase by 50%. McCain will get my vote (reluctantly), but I would rather have the opportunity to vote for a candidate that would really change Washington like Mike Huckabee or Ron Paul.

[VegasVic]

The U.S. needs to become energy independant NOW and that means opening up the offshore fields, the ANWAR field, oil shale in the rockies and coal gasification. I see CClub is still as vehement a U.S. basher as always, however it sure would be nice if he did at least some dergree of due dilligence before he posted, as oil consumtion in the U.S. has been steadily dropping over the last few years, down nearly 4% in the last 12 months

Major problems with this post.

Point 1: If ANWR were opened up today, not a drop would flow into the market until 2018+. By 2018, the global demand would be so high, that even flowing at maximum capacity, which would not happen until near 2030 or beyond, its contribution to the global supply would not even offset the declines in already mature and declining fields. There would be NO significant price impact at the pump.

Point 2: The 4% decline you crow about is due to demand erosion which is caused by the high prices. Drop the prices and demand shoots waaaaaay up. Econ 101. Furthermore, that is not GLOBAL demand. What we pass up in the US is immediately consumed by China, India, etc.

Stop getting your news from FAUX News and BOR (Bill O'Reily). They are all propaganda shouting zero-credibility LOOOOONIES with no basis in reality.

point 1: If ANWR opened up today oil would be flowing in about 8 years (just for the record thats 2016 not 2018), and the move to open ANWR, offshore drilling, oil shale exploration and coal gasification would have an immdeiate downward effect on oil futures and an immediate upward effect on OPEC production levels as they would realize that they need to take maximum advantage of current pricing. On a side note, Bill Clinton gave the same BS reason you just gave back in 1995 on why to not open up ANWR, of course had Mr. Clinton signed that bill into law then ANWR would now be in its 5th year of production point 2: Apparently you never took Econ 101, because a 4% drop in consumption is just that, a 4% drop, a simple enough fact for you to comprehend my friend (I think?) Perhaps Cclub might want to vent at the countries that have been increasing their use of fossil fuels over the last few years, like China and India! I am not quite sure what the Bill O'reilly reference is all about, but if you are searching for loonies with no basis in reality then I think that your quest can be reached quite easily the next time you encounter a mirror. There we go, that seems to be game set and match, have a nice day my eccentric friend and if you ecounter this Cclub fellow please inform him of the facts that U.S. oil consumption is indeed decreasing while chinese and indian consumption has been increasing!

[dotcom]

Point A. Bill O'Reilley has a bee in his bonnet that big oil is screwing us over. He is not open to any suggestion to the contrary.

Agree with Vegas Vic. In another thread the OP asked - "Help me understand the price of oil" We did explain it.

IIRC global demand is something like 82 million barrels. Why does the US need to be self sufficient in energy? We have cash - the Saudis the Canadians the Mexicans & the Nigerians have more than they coud ever use. The excess they sell to whomever has the cash to buy it.

That moron Abdullah said over the weekend that speculators are to blame 100%. He should keep his uneducated mouth shut.

Vic is 100% correct that the demand is coming from India & China.

He is 100% correct that by opening up drilling we send a signal to the unholy cartel that we are fed up with being held hostage to lunatics like acckkkkmaddinajad.

Goveror Arnold - girlieman - has said no drilling off California. He is surely not a republican. I wish to god he would switch to the democrats like his wife Maria.

He has no problem flying his private jet to work though, sukking up all that "dirty oil". He lives in LA & works in Sacramento. This guy is a 5 star bozo.

[AnnyLing]

That moron Abdullah said over the weekend that speculators are to blame 100%. He should keep his uneducated mouth shut.

Why do i have that strange feeling that Abdullah looks and sounds much less "moronish" than you?