Seeking A Buddhist Perspective

[awakened]

After many years of being a pessimistic observer rather than active participant at Christian Churches and Retreats, I eventually had my 'born-again' experience. An overnight conversion, if you will. 'Amazing grace'. Unfortunately it 'withered on the vine' supposedly due to a failure to underpin it with knowledge, after only 9 months. Almost in the same way as romantic love fades. Was it simply an emotional rush? Or a psychological high brought on by an ending of resistance?

How would Buddhism see this and does Buddhism have similar conversions?

My seeking took me to India where I studied Raja Yoga with a heavy emphasis on purity. No sex, animal protein, unwholesome thoughts, material distractions, showering after bathroom breaks and white clothes. Lots of meditation and mental practices, the aim being mastery of the mind. It all went pear-shaped when I felt I could not live up to the requirement for celibacy and my nervous system was so shot from years`of burnout that I was never able to sit relaxed during the meditation. I also found having to learn the Indian philosophy and vocabulary a challenge and distraction.

Do Buddhists have the same challenges?

Then came a year practising TM. If the mind won't shut up then give it something useful to do. Again, it was helpful but 20 mins, twice a day, when you are being worked to death, didn't give me the benefits I hoped for. A promise of enlightenment 50 years`down the road also wasn't my idea of instant gratification. Surely there must be a quicker way of reaping health benefits.

I also had doubts that I was following the right course. Was my stress due to physical reasons... adrenal exhaustion perhaps that could be resolved by other means? Was there a spiritual monkey on my back that deep breathing, rather than meditation might shift? Could it be that the answer lay in physical graft and working the spine rather than watching every thought flying by and trying not to get sucked in? How can I make progress if Mercury toxicity is frying my brains? Should I whip my fillings out? What about the emotional baggage I was carrying in my gut from toxic relationships and disappointment? How do I release all of that? Would meditation fix the missing villi from my duodenum and ileum that was preventing me absorbing sufficient nutrients?

What say you Buddhists?

I also faced other difficulties. For instance the meatless diet was causing me to weaken and lose weight. For 6 years I persevered. Body always cold and salads and raw foods leaving me energy-less. Once I got back on a meat-based diet I recovered some weight and strength and bodily warmth.

How many Buddhists have had this same difficulty?

Here's another experience that I'm curious about. I once went on holiday with my family and dropped the car off at airport parking. The attendant said 'Call us when you come back and clear customs'. On our return, I forgot the instruction and called as I walked into Baggage Collection. 'dam_n!' I thought. 'Called too early. The poor chap is going to be waiting an hour outside.'

So on the basis that you can ask God for the little things as well as the big things, I said 'Ok, Lord. Now's your chance. I want the next two suitcases to come through the conveyor to be mine. Oh... and by the way... if you do this I'll believe in you.' (what childish games our minds play). Only 6 cases had come through by this time and sure enough the next case that came through was one of mine. The large one. I was surprised but not convinced since the small one was yet to come into view. Imagine my jaw dropping when it eventually wound it's way towards me and there was the small case behind the big one.

How would a Buddhist see this?

Ok. One more incident and I'll quit.

My daughter was born 7 weeks premature and spent 6 months in a special care baby unit. Always on the edge, like her parents. Anyway, on one occasion she was given the last rites and an hour to live. We watched the infernal machine monitor her weakening heartbeat and I was engulfed with grief. I have no idea what I said but I'm sure it was incoherent. What I was trying to say, was 'Lord to save her.' Within seconds her heart rate picked up and she survived, much to the doctors surprise.

Again. How would a Buddhist interpret this? Did 'God' hear me or did she?

Sorry to go on. Thanks for any replies.

[garro]

A very interesting question indeed and something that I have been recently thinking about. I think that the spiritual experience that you describe is not connected to any religion in particular, but is more the fruit of being on what your mind considers to be the correct path.

I have been interested in Buddhism since my teens, but when I had my spiritual experience I wasn't practising any particular path. I was actually on the upstairs of a double-decker bus when I was swept over with a feeling that I was connected to the whole universe and that everything was exactly as it should be. This feeling was the most intense sensation of joy I have ever known. The nearest I have got to it since has been through intensive meditation, but it does not seem to be something you can force.

During the period of the first experience I was recovering from an addiction and it was a time when I was trying to lead a good life. I was at ease with the world and this is what I think brought the experience on. I believe that if there is a way to replicate this experience is through developing a sense of completely trusting the universe to take care of everything - to let go of our concerns. On the other hand, mabye it is not important to have this experience twice. I feel the the tools provided by the Buddha such as; the ideas of non-self and non-attachment are ideal for this development of a peaceful mind and heart. Recently I seem to becoming much less interested in the religious aspects of Buddhism and more in just the practical tools the Buddha provide. I think that at the end of the day there are many ways to the same goal.

[awakened]

Sorry. For some reason I have posted twice. The first is a draft and needs deleting.

I wonder if the moderator can oblige and move any responses accordingly. Thanks.

[Brucenkhamen]

After many years of being a pessimistic observer rather than active participant at Christian Churches and Retreats, I eventually had my 'born-again'

experience. An overnight conversion, if you will. 'Amazing grace'.

Unfortunately it 'withered on the vine' supposedly due to a failure to underpin it with knowledge, after only 9 months. Almost in the same way as romantic love fades. Was it simply an emotional rush? Or a psychological high brought on by an ending of resistance?

How would Buddhism see this and does Buddhism have similar conversions?

I also experienced the born again Christian conversion experience, and like you for me it faded after some months. What kept me going for a few more years was a desire to belong in the social structure that the Church provided and the unwillingness to admit I was wrong.

A conversion experience is not necessary for Buddhism, I'm not sure whether it's desirable or not, most people dabble in it and other things, test the waters a few times, mix and match for a while. Nothing wrong with that as everyone has their own path to walk and nobody is expecting them to forsake all other forms of spiritual development if they choose the Buddhas path.

However I would say I'm unusual in that I had a Buddhist conversion experience, I had read a lot about different spiritual paths and dabbled in meditation in my teens so when I decided I needed to give Buddhism a go ten years later I was ready to jump in at the deep end and give it my all. Now of course after a time the intensity faded but unlike my previous conversion experience what has kept me going is seeing the results in my life and finding that it has worked.

My seeking took me to India where I studied Raja Yoga with a heavy emphasis on purity. No sex, animal protein, unwholesome thoughts, material distractions, showering after bathroom breaks and white clothes. Lots of meditation and mental practices, the aim being mastery of the mind. It all went pear-shaped when I felt I could not live up to the requirement for celibacy and my nervous system was so shot from years`of burnout that I was never able to sit relaxed during the meditation. I also found having to learn the Indian philosophy and vocabulary a challenge and distraction.

Do Buddhists have the same challenges?

I would say a Theravadin monk would have similar challenges that you've described, and lay people too I guess if they are doing back to back retreats over a long period of time. It's not uncommon for people to get uptight with their practice.

One difference I've noticed though is that even though there are a lot of rules in Theravadin Buddhism (particularly for monks) they are regarded in more of a light hearted way than the kind of situation you described. They are a means to an end, a way of teaching you, not an ultimate morality (except of course the big rules). If you break them, never mind, what did you learn.

I also had doubts that I was following the right course. Was my stress due to physical reasons... adrenal exhaustion perhaps that could be resolved by other means? Was there a spiritual monkey on my back that deep breathing, rather than meditation might shift? Could it be that the answer lay in physical graft and working the spine rather than watching every thought flying by and trying not to get sucked in? How can I make progress if Mercury toxicity is frying my brains? Should I whip my fillings out? What about the emotional baggage I was carrying in my gut from toxic relationships and disappointment? How do I release all of that? Would meditation fix the missing villi from my duodenum and ileum that was preventing me absorbing sufficient nutrients?

What say you Buddhists?

It's the inability to let go, relax, and accept things as they are that leads to getting wound up like this. If you can learn to observe these feelings objectively, not searching for an answer, often they dissipate over time or the answer comes to you.

I also faced other difficulties. For instance the meatless diet was causing me to weaken and lose weight. For 6 years I persevered. Body always cold and salads and raw foods leaving me energy-less. Once I got back on a meat-based diet I recovered some weight and strength and bodily warmth.

How many Buddhists have had this same difficulty?

I haven't gone meatless except on retreats, and I found I feel a lot lighter and healthier when I do but I don't know whether the vegetarian diet has contributed to that.

Many Buddhist groups place no expectation on people to be vegetarian so if you feel it's not working for you don't do it.

Here's another experience that I'm curious about...

...How would a Buddhist see this?

...Again. How would a Buddhist interpret this? Did 'God' hear me or did she?

It's wonderful when things work out for you, having a prayer for something that's really important to you is harmless, maybe it has an affect, I don't know. But if believing that "God" intervened leads to attachment and reliance on him/her doing it for you again and again then that's counter-productive to the Buddhist path.

[camerata]

I have been interested in Buddhism since my teens, but when I had my spiritual experience I wasn't practising any particular path. I was actually on the upstairs of a double-decker bus when I was swept over with a feeling that I was connected to the whole universe and that everything was exactly as it should be. This feeling was the most intense sensation of joy I have ever known.

Quite a few people have this sort of experience (I had it in a dream while young) and I believe it is a long-buried memory of one's egoless state of mind in the first couple of years of childhood. It strongly suggests that Buddhists are on the right track in considering egolessness to be "blissful." I think it's probably one aspect of nibbana - sort of a low-level glimpse of what nibbana might be like.

I also agree with Carl Sagan that when people see an approaching bright light during a near-death experience, it is very likely a memory of exiting the birth canal while being born.

[camerata]

My daughter was born 7 weeks premature and spent 6 months in a special care baby unit. Always on the edge, like her parents. Anyway, on one occasion she was given the last rites and an hour to live. We watched the infernal machine monitor her weakening heartbeat and I was engulfed with grief. I have no idea what I said but I'm sure it was incoherent. What I was trying to say, was 'Lord to save her.' Within seconds her heart rate picked up and she survived, much to the doctors surprise.

Again. How would a Buddhist interpret this? Did 'God' hear me or did she?

I expect many Buddhists would say her recovery was due to her own karma in previous lives and that your prayer was irrelevant since there is no God to hear it.

When the timing of an incident seems to indicate divine intervention or synchronicity, there are are usually a number of rational explanations. Carl Sagan explored this quite thoroughly in his book The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.