Adoption

[Gary A]

I'm 63 years old and my Thai wife is 40 years old. She has never had children and she loves kids. I had a vasectomy years ago so we are NOT going to have any babies. My wife understood that before we got married.

The subject of adoption has come up. What are the chances of us adopting a luek Kreung baby? Age is really not that important. The sex of the baby is also not important.

[Boo]

What are the chances of us adopting a luek Kreung baby?

Honestly, IMO quite low. 100% thai kids are incredibly hard for mixed/foreign couples to adopt legally & require the foreign parent to clear their own countries requirements for adopting before even being considered by the thai adoption agency. Then add the requirement for a half thai child & they become even rarer.

Have you though about sperm donation? IMO if your wife really wants a child & you are unable but want a half thai one then finding a suitable farang donor would be quicker & would circumvent any issues of paternity as long as you were named on the BC.

[donx]

A co-worker had a vasectomy years ago. He remarried and his 2nd wife wanted a baby between them. They both had kids from previous marriages. They ended up having their own child. He had a big ass needle placed into his nuts to extract his sperm. As you probably know, a vasectomy doesn't stop the generation of sperm, it only prevents the sperm from being ejaculated. Then an egg or eggs were removed from his wife and the sperm and egg or eggs were placed into a testtube. A fertilized egg was inserted back into his wife. They now have a healthy young one year old son.

I was told that the pain and swelling from the sperm extraction was significantly greater than the pain and swelling from the vasectomy. Also, as our company has a good medical plan, the entire procedure was covered by insurance whereas having a vasectomy reversed is not covered by our insurance.

I'm just giving you another option.

[Goinghomesoon]

Colleagues here in Bangkok adopted recently, they waited 15 months from the time their file was complete until they picked up their bub. It was several months of collecting paperwork and undergoing the Thai social worker visits before that. As Boo says, it depends on what country you come from what hoops you might have to jump through before you can approach the Thais. I have the Thai Govt's Child Adoption Centre brochure somewhere around here. PM me if you'd like a copy as a starting point.

RueFang visited one of the bigger babies homes recently, she might be able to give you an idea on whether any babies were mixed race.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What are the chances of us adopting a luek Kreung baby?

I'd say that greatly depends on which particular two krueng backgrounds make up the whole. While for example Wester-Japanese would be the hardest to find, there might be more opportunities for Khmer-Isan, or Hilltribe-Thai.

Have you though about sperm donation? IMO if your wife really wants a child & you are unable but want a half thai one then finding a suitable farang donor would be quicker

Where do I sign up?

[Gary A]

My wife spent about an hour on the phone last night talking to a friend of hers. Her friend is a doctor specializing in Obstetrics. The doctor encouraged my wife and told her that many children needed homes and that she herself would help us. According to the doctor, the chances are VERY good. A stable relationship, a steady income and owning property are key factors. Time will tell. Of course my wife would like one of her own but I view adoption as a much better way. The world really doesn't need more babies.

[coventry]

I tried it in 2005 but too much bureacracy. We went for IVF and it worked. Far cheaper and easier.

[kat]

My wife spent about an hour on the phone last night talking to a friend of hers. Her friend is a doctor specializing in Obstetrics. The doctor encouraged my wife and told her that many children needed homes and that she herself would help us. According to the doctor, the chances are VERY good. A stable relationship, a steady income and owning property are key factors. Time will tell. Of course my wife would like one of her own but I view adoption as a much better way. The world really doesn't need more babies.

I think that sounds like a beautiful thing, Gary A. I agree with you on every angle. There are so many needy and abandoned children in the world, the world really doesn't need more babies. Before people jump on me, I know they are cute and all, and believe me I love them once they are here and have given away tons of new baby gifts to friends and family, but there is no real NEED, except for personal need. Adopted kids are just as good.

As a multi-heritage adoptee, I can tell you that the child you adopt will recognize and love you as their parents regardless. It doesn't matter if they look like you or not. I am not going to lie and say that there aren't complications, but if you are sensitive and aware of this child as both your own and as a member of their own ethnic group as well, you will raise a healthy and balanced child.

I want to adopt a child also at some point.

[Gary A]

The doctor called my wife last night and invited us to Bangkok to meet the kids. This doctor volunteers her services to the orphanage and donates what she can afford to the orphanage. After the rice planting season is finished we will go have a look and hopefully find out much more. And, yes, my wife plants rice right alongside of the workers.

[Boo]

GaryA, are you planning on passing your nationality (passport to you home country) on to any child you may adpot?

If that is your intention then please first speak with your embassy or the adoption service of your country cause adoption in thailand only is possible but it will not usually be recognised by your home country unless you pass their checks as well.

This is not intended to put you off but more as an "Make sure you check out exactly what kind of adoption you make" as a while ago we had a poster who had adopted a thai chid (with is thai wife), through the thailand only system but when he needed to go back to the states urgently, the child, whom he had taken care of for several years already, was not recognised by his government as being his & they refused to issue a passport & created some issue about giving a visa too.

So knowing the laws of both countries & what you want for the child in terms of nationality & recognition by what government is IMO important to investigate first.

Good luck with it all though, I would like to adopt some time in the future so would be interested to know how you get on.

[Gary A]

I am retired and neither my wife nor I have any intention of ever living in the US. The child would be raised right here in Thailand and other than the advantage of a higher standard of living and receiving a better education than most other Thai children, wouldn't be any different.

[Old Man River]

What are the chances of us adopting a luek Kreung baby?

Honestly, IMO quite low. 100% thai kids are incredibly hard for mixed/foreign couples to adopt legally & require the foreign parent to clear their own countries requirements for adopting before even being considered by the thai adoption agency.

I really don't know what the difficulty is. We did it quite easily. OK, it was around 5 years ago, and maybe things are different now, but I am not sure why they would be. Also, the Thai authorities didn't care the least about any other country's requirements. If it makes sense, then it makes sense.

The issue about the kid not having your nationality is correct. Our kid first entered the US on a visa (vacation). We then took the few years it takes to get her US citizenship, which she now has (dual citizen).

I really don't know about luek kreung babies, but if you find one available and decide it makes sense for both of you, then go for it!

[Old Man River]

GaryA, are you planning on passing your nationality (passport to you home country) on to any child you may adpot?

If that is your intention then please first speak with your embassy or the adoption service of your country cause adoption in thailand only is possible but it will not usually be recognised by your home country unless you pass their checks as well.

This is not intended to put you off but more as an "Make sure you check out exactly what kind of adoption you make" as a while ago we had a poster who had adopted a thai chid (with is thai wife), through the thailand only system but when he needed to go back to the states urgently, the child, whom he had taken care of for several years already, was not recognised by his government as being his & they refused to issue a passport & created some issue about giving a visa too.

So knowing the laws of both countries & what you want for the child in terms of nationality & recognition by what government is IMO important to investigate first.

Good luck with it all though, I would like to adopt some time in the future so would be interested to know how you get on.

Again, many of us have already done this. Since he would be adopting in Thailand with no intent on returning to the US, he will first have to go through the process with Home Security, and once they approve they will pass the file on to the US Embassy. Once that is done, talk to people at the US Embassy. I found them very helpful and they understood exactly what needed to be done to get the kid US citizenship (dual national). It takes a few years, but there is plenty of time. The documents and translations are onerous, but doable. Gary A, you will not be reinventing the wheel. Take your time, stay cool and you can get it done.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The world really doesn't need more babies.

Thailand does need babies. The birth rate is WAY down and actually lower than the birthrate in the USA. The population will barely sustain itself at the current rate.

[Gary A]

The world really doesn't need more babies.

Thailand does need babies. The birth rate is WAY down and actually lower than the birthrate in the USA. The population will barely sustain itself at the current rate.

Since the orphanages are bursting full of kids, the kids need parents more than Thailand needs more births. Even if I were able to father a child, I'd have to think long and hard about it. To me, adoption is still a far better method.

[coventry]

The world really doesn't need more babies.

Thailand does need babies. The birth rate is WAY down and actually lower than the birthrate in the USA. The population will barely sustain itself at the current rate.

Since the orphanages are bursting full of kids, the kids need parents more than Thailand needs more births. Even if I were able to father a child, I'd have to think long and hard about it. To me, adoption is still a far better method.

The orphanages are not bursting by the way. How do you know adoption is the better option ? You haven't tried it yet. I have done both and I'm on, sorry we are, on our second IVF procedure, first one successful. Believe me the adoption WAY is the wrong way. But it's your choice so good luck in your attempt. Be prepared to buy a wig because you'll sure as hel_l be pulling your hair out. There are no private adoption agencies in Thailand only the government one and we all know how bureacratic they are. Edited July 7, 2008 by coventry

[Goinghomesoon]

Believe me the adoption WAY is the wrong way.

Coventry as an adoptive parent I'm interested why you think this is the case? There are many challenges in parenting internationally adopted children, particularly if you want to maintain their links to and pride in their original country, language and culture. But it seems fairly prescriptive to claim the adoption way is the wrong way.

[MJK]

We are waiting for our third adoption child now. When we get the first two (Thai babies), we lived in Europe and now we live in Thailand.

I have to say that it was much easier when we were in Europe..social workers did almost all the paper work and were in contact with Thai authorities.

This time we had to do everything by ourself: home report, criminal check from police (took 3 months, in Europe 3 days), all familydocuments translated in English..and still, always something missing. It took one year for us to get all the documents to the adoption office. The day everything was completed was 13 months ago and we have no idea how long we still have to wait. Estimated time was 15-18 months but our friends in Europe has been waiting for 2,5 years.

There are many families waiting. And orphanies are not so full of children as it looks like. Many (or the most?) of the children are not free for adoption. And many of the children are special need children with behavior disorders, hepatite-B, Hiv..There are many families who want those few healthy babies, that's why it takes a long time.

We are waiting for THAT phone call every day..

[coventry]

Believe me the adoption WAY is the wrong way.

I made this quote because it's the way we first went. Okay for us it didn't work and we found a more successful route. Given the choice again I would never have tried adoption but it seemed the most logical at the time. Good luck in all that try adoption but there is no greater thrill in having your own blood line. I also think adoption in Thailand will get harder to undertake in line with the present attitude of the Vietnamese.

[Gary A]

I have two grown children in the US, both with their own families now. I was certain enough to have a vasectomy 35 years ago that I didn't want to father any more children. I have never regretted that decision and still don't. If we are fortunate enough to get a child, great. If not, there will be no children in this home. My wife has high hopes and she will be sorely disappointed if we are not able to adopt.

If I were still living in the US, I would not even consider a child at age 63 but this is NOT the US and Thai families are much closer here. My wife's mother takes care of the youngest daughters two children and to see my wife's joy and happiness when she is taking care of her younger sister's children makes me believe that adoption is the right route for us. My wife's youngest sister and her husband both work in Bangkok. I can't say that I understand why people have children and then not raise them but this is indeed a different culture.

[coventry]

Which ever way you go GaryA I wish you the best of luck but be prepared for the long haul.

[Old Man River]

I have two grown children in the US, both with their own families now. I was certain enough to have a vasectomy 35 years ago that I didn't want to father any more children. I have never regretted that decision and still don't. If we are fortunate enough to get a child, great. If not, there will be no children in this home. My wife has high hopes and she will be sorely disappointed if we are not able to adopt.

If I were still living in the US, I would not even consider a child at age 63 but this is NOT the US and Thai families are much closer here. My wife's mother takes care of the youngest daughters two children and to see my wife's joy and happiness when she is taking care of her younger sister's children makes me believe that adoption is the right route for us. My wife's youngest sister and her husband both work in Bangkok. I can't say that I understand why people have children and then not raise them but this is indeed a different culture.

Since it is a different culture, as you mention, one option many have done is to legally adopt children from the wife's relatives. I know it sounds awkward, but it is done often and it gives the child more opportunities than they would ever have. The foreign spouse then can get the child citizenship of that country as well.

[phusingpete]

We are waiting for our third adoption child now. When we get the first two (Thai babies), we lived in Europe and now we live in Thailand.

I have to say that it was much easier when we were in Europe..social workers did almost all the paper work and were in contact with Thai authorities.

This time we had to do everything by ourself: home report, criminal check from police (took 3 months, in Europe 3 days), all familydocuments translated in English..and still, always something missing. It took one year for us to get all the documents to the adoption office. The day everything was completed was 13 months ago and we have no idea how long we still have to wait. Estimated time was 15-18 months but our friends in Europe has been waiting for 2,5 years.

There are many families waiting. And orphanies are not so full of children as it looks like. Many (or the most?) of the children are not free for adoption. And many of the children are special need children with behavior disorders, hepatite-B, Hiv..There are many families who want those few healthy babies, that's why it takes a long time.

We are waiting for THAT phone call every day..

Hi, My Thai wife and I are in the process of adopting a Thai baby, or I thought we were. We already have the baby, she has been with us for 13 months, since she was born. My wife heard about a couple who had just had a new born girl and wanted to find a home for her. They were extremely poor and already had several children, I was in England at the time,so had to deal with the process by phone. My wife, her family, village elders and pui bann dealt with formalities, no money changed hands, this I insisted upon. We went to the adoption dept in Bangkok a year ago, filled in forms and gave documents. Since then I have been waiting for letters of authorisation to get records on my wife and I from the Thai police. They simply do not reply to my letters. Does anyone know If there is any other way I can get such authorisation.

We had tried the IVF route, big needle and all but the fertilzed eggs did not take. Though expensive I would have tried again but my wife was so depressed she refused. Thing is she actually had the symtoms of pregnancy, morning sickness etc, and was convinced it had worked.

The baby we have is an absolute joy she has enriched our lives beyond my dreams, also the lives of my wife's extended family and the locals. They have all taken her to their hearts as though she were their own. I have had children in the past when a younger man, but then I was working always busy, up early in the mornings etc. Now I have bags of time to devote to her, if she wakes uip at night no problem we can play,I can sleep when I want in the morning.

BUT, I really need to legalise the situation, any advice on dealing with the adoption dept. would be really appreciated. Phusingpete

[roygsd]

I'm 63 years old and my Thai wife is 40 years old. She has never had children and she loves kids. I had a vasectomy years ago so we are NOT going to have any babies. My wife understood that before we got married.

The subject of adoption has come up. What are the chances of us adopting a luek Kreung baby? Age is really not that important. The sex of the baby is also not important.

Hi,

Pretty relevant question for many guys on this site I suspect.

I and my wife are in the same boat as yourself although I am somewhat younger than yourself ( please forgive me but I really I dont get the chance to say that very often!) my wife would like me to have a reversal which I am half heartedly considering but as the success rate is not that great I did raise the question of adoption with her but she was not receptive to the idea.

Since then I have discussed the subject of adoption with many Thai ladies who in the main would rather support their nieces and nephews from afar than raise someone elses child, I have to admit their reactations to that question was a bit of a suprise to me but on refection I dont think that people should be that suprised when you consider how the importance of the "family" is drummed into thai children from a very early age and reinforced at every opportuntity.

Whilst I note that you have indicated that you have no objection to the childs sex or age but evenmore interesting is the fact that you have specified a Leuk Kreung baby.

From experience I can tell you that it is possible to love and care for a child that is not of your blood, on that same basis I am certain that the same applies to a child of any race, a child is a child at the end of the day.

If you were fortunate enough to adopt a Leuk kreung child I would assume you would infom the child at some point that he/she was adopted, with that in mind is it really that important to you that your neigbours etc look at the child and assume it is your natural child?

There are literally millions of childen available for adoption worldwide, and with respect I would suggest that if the most important thing to you is that the child must be a Luek Kreung then perhaps you should reconsider your reasons for wanting to be an adoptive parent.

I have a sign in the back of my car that says " a dog is for life not just for xmas", and the same should apply for children.

By restricting your choice you are iin danger of missing out on the opportunity of raising a child, the skin tone and western features ar esimply the wrapping on the present.

I wish you both the best of luck

roy gsd

[roygsd]

A co-worker had a vasectomy years ago. He remarried and his 2nd wife wanted a baby between them. They both had kids from previous marriages. They ended up having their own child. He had a big ass needle placed into his nuts to extract his sperm. As you probably know, a vasectomy doesn't stop the generation of sperm, it only prevents the sperm from being ejaculated. Then an egg or eggs were removed from his wife and the sperm and egg or eggs were placed into a testtube. A fertilized egg was inserted back into his wife. They now have a healthy young one year old son.

I was told that the pain and swelling from the sperm extraction was significantly greater than the pain and swelling from the vasectomy. Also, as our company has a good medical plan, the entire procedure was covered by insurance whereas having a vasectomy reversed is not covered by our insurance.

I'm just giving you another option.

Hi,

your post goes to prove what I have been telled the ladies all my life, a little prick can still fill many prams.........

roy gsd

[roygsd]

My wife spent about an hour on the phone last night talking to a friend of hers. Her friend is a doctor specializing in Obstetrics. The doctor encouraged my wife and told her that many children needed homes and that she herself would help us. According to the doctor, the chances are VERY good. A stable relationship, a steady income and owning property are key factors. Time will tell. Of course my wife would like one of her own but I view adoption as a much better way. The world really doesn't need more babies.

I think that sounds like a beautiful thing, Gary A. I agree with you on every angle. There are so many needy and abandoned children in the world, the world really doesn't need more babies. Before people jump on me, I know they are cute and all, and believe me I love them once they are here and have given away tons of new baby gifts to friends and family, but there is no real NEED, except for personal need. Adopted kids are just as good.

As a multi-heritage adoptee, I can tell you that the child you adopt will recognize and love you as their parents regardless. It doesn't matter if they look like you or not. I am not going to lie and say that there aren't complications, but if you are sensitive and aware of this child as both your own and as a member of their own ethnic group as well, you will raise a healthy and balanced child.

I want to adopt a child also at some point.

So the Kat is just a pussy cat and not the tiger after all ! Nice post

roy gsd

[roygsd]

The doctor called my wife last night and invited us to Bangkok to meet the kids. This doctor volunteers her services to the orphanage and donates what she can afford to the orphanage. After the rice planting season is finished we will go have a look and hopefully find out much more.

And, yes, my wife plants rice right alongside of the workers.[

/

quote]

But what do you do when she is knocking her pipe out ?

roy gsd

[roygsd]

The world really doesn't need more babies.

Thailand does need babies. The birth rate is WAY down and actually lower than the birthrate in the USA. The population will barely sustain itself at the current rate.

Guess that would make a fine slogan for the thai tourist board, Welcome to Thailand, we positively welcome tourists to come and come often to help up secure our future"

roy gsd

[roygsd]

The world really doesn't need more babies.

Thailand does need babies. The birth rate is WAY down and actually lower than the birthrate in the USA. The population will barely sustain itself at the current rate.

Since the orphanages are bursting full of kids, the kids need parents more than Thailand needs more births. Even if I were able to father a child, I'd have to think long and hard about it. To me, adoption is still a far better method.

roy gsd

[p_brownstone]

.

I and my wife are in the same boat as yourself although I am somewhat younger than yourself ( please forgive me but I really I dont get the chance to say that very often!) my wife would like me to have a reversal which I am half heartedly considering but as the success rate is not that great I did raise the question of adoption with her but she was not receptive to the idea.

Since then I have discussed the subject of adoption with many Thai ladies who in the main would rather support their nieces and nephews from afar than raise someone elses child, I have to admit their reactations to that question was a bit of a suprise to me but on refection I dont think that people should be that suprised when you consider how the importance of the "family" is drummed into thai children from a very early age and reinforced at every opportuntity.

Thai thinking on Adoption is completely different to the Western approach and I urge you to forget the idea if your wife is not entirely happy with it.

You will often find that a wealthier brother – for example – will adopt the child of a less well off sister or other close relative but it is very unusual for Thais to adopt children from outside the extended family.

Thais firmly believe that each individual has certain traits, behaviour patters and tendencies (collectively called “Sandarn” in Thai) which are inherited at birth from the parents and simply cannot be changed; even if the child is brought up in an entirely different social or economic environment to that of the birth parents they believe that these traits will eventually surface and could cause problems for the adoptive family.

By adopting from within the extended family these traits are known or can be accepted whatever they turn out to be, to adopt a child whose antecedents are unknown is to open the family up to unforeseeable problems.

Further, as the adopted child gets older any misbehaviour or attitude problem – which would normally be attributed to the general “growing up” process in a child and met with indulgence as being “cute” – is seized upon as evidence of the childs’ bad “Sandarn” surfacing and is treated as a serious problem usually requiring strict sanction. As each small problem is dealt with in this way it initiates a self fulfilling outcome and the child becomes increasingly isolated from the “main” family.

You should definitely make sure your wife is 100% behind the idea if you choose to adopt.

Patrick