Drinking Water

[Rasseru]

And those of you who are buying street-vended (and even restaurant) food that is often prepared by people who are cleaning their butts with hands/plain water after toilet and oftentimes don't even own a bar of soap, how do you justify the importance of absolutely pure water in your home?

Compensation?

Oh and, btw, our ice cubes are so clear I frequently wear one as a monocle - cool, eh?

Excellent! May I encourage you to try wearing two as a pair of glasses?

[Pikey]

Only 2 things govern my choice of water - does it look ok? Does it taste OK? If yes then down it goes. I have well water for washing family & clothes, brushing/rinsing my teeth and use the 20l bottles for drinking. Unlike some of the posts on this forum, I have never had the sh*ts with the local water! Like someone else said, you're more likely to get bad guts from a dodgy shrimp or unhygienic restaurant staff.....

Cheers,

Pikey.

Edited July 11, 2008 by Pikey

[tracker]

tapwater:

quality depends on where you are. In my area (bkk) all the pipes turn black on the inside after a couple months of use, include my pump and toilet flushers. I wouldn't drink for any gold in the world. I do now of a source of groundwater in KhaoYai, which i can drink straight from tap. I even smells good. It's probably full of minerals.

Drinkwater:

I have such popular 3 filter-setup and to be honest, I have not checked it for a year ( i have it already for 2 years). The filter hangs in a corner in the kitchen as above the sink was no space, nor do i want such ugly thing anyway in view. To cope with easy accessible drinking-water, we use terracotta pots (the one in the kitchen is about 15liters). Due to the slow evaporation through the material, the water cools in there and has a pleasant taste to it, probably due to the exposure of the clay... We use smaller ones in the bathroom.

So every 2 weeks or so I have to refill those using those 5 liter plastic bottles which I fill up at my filter-outlet.

CM:

I regularly visit ChiangMai for business in the last two years. I live in thailand for over 8 years. I always get "Bowel-problems" when I am there, even I use bottled water to brush teeth in the hotel. At home never have this.... Could be just me, but then again, recently a greenpeace report pointed out the chemicals in lamphun tapwater.... a stone-throw away from CM....

my two cents...

[Tyke]

Only 2 things govern my choice of water - does it look ok? Does it taste OK? If yes then down it goes. I have well water for washing family & clothes, brushing/rinsing my teeth and use the 20l bottles for drinking. Unlike some of the posts on this forum, I have never had the sh*ts with the local water! Like someone else said, you're more likely to get bad guts from a dodgy shrimp or unhygienic restaurant staff.....

Cheers,

Pikey.

Oh dear. Sight and taste are the least significant tests for drinking water - that's what they used as tests in the dark ages, and they died of some terrible water-borne diseases. Like I wrote earlier, nowadays microorganisms are the smallest problem in drinking water that farangs are likely to come up against (as opposed to poor village people). That is so because, firstly, the microorganisms found after treatment are not often lethal, and secondly, any toxic effects are likely to show up short-term, particularly gastro-intestinal problems. If you don't get these diseases then the water was OK after all.

The major problems we have living in cities in Thailand are the myriad of chemicals that leak into the river water prior to treatment and are not cleared out completely, as well as those added during the cleansing process and inadvertantly by the bottling process for bottled water. These drugs, hormones, pesticides, plasticisers etc are colourless and tasteless because they are present in such small concentrations. But they can potentially have potent long-term deleterious effects, particularly affecting endogenous hormone imbalances (big tits in men!) and carcinogenesis. International standards allow a range of limits for theses small residues so does ensure the water is 100% safe long-term, just that it is safe within certain defined limits. Home filters can go some way to improving that safety margin. I could handle big tits but would feel distinctly uncomfortable with some of the other consequences of relying on others in Thailand to make sure my drinking water was pure.

[Tyke]

Hi, sorry, for "small residues so does ensure the water is 100% safe long-term" read "does NOT ensure"

[Pikey]

Fair enough but I was brought up with the school of thought that if you listened to the so called "experts" on what you should and should not eat/drink (I was gonna say "put in your mouth" but thought better of it), you'd starve to death. Each to their own and my current practice has served me fine these past few years so if I start to grow tits, I'll put that down to my beer consumption rather than dodgy water

Cheers,

Pikey.

[Bill97]

I have been watching this very busy thread because I truly am interested in the various forms of both in-home filters and so-called clean water provided by outside services. The two issues I have so far are,

- Bottled water seems to be all the rage among people who can afford it and even in Hawaii it was very popular indeed and stories of contaminated tap water abounded. Just how true they are is another question. Have very many people on these forums actually taken a sample of their local tap water to the University for tests? And, if so, did those tests recommend not drinking that water? There are SO many contaminants out there, do we really have to worry that much about water that is already supposedly treated by the city? And those of you who are buying street-vended (and even restaurant) food that is often prepared by people who are cleaning their butts with hands/plain water after toilet and oftentimes don't even own a bar of soap, how do you justify the importance of absolutely pure water in your home?

- I don't like waste much either but consider flinging huge numbers of plastic bottles into the ecosystem a bit worse than 'waste water' that flushes from an RO system and simply returns to the earth in basically the same form we obtained it. I do have water delivered, in reusable bottles, and don't feel too bad as while I can still carry a 20-liter bottle by the neck in each hand, given my age it isn't going to be long before lugging those things from Tesco or the corner watering hole to my home would make me reconsider 'doing it myself'.

Not only that, even given the 'expensive' 2B/liter I pay for my water, purchasing an expensive filter system, plus the expense of replacing filters and such, and the limited life of the system itself, it is going to be a very, very long time before I realize any financial benefit from that choice.

Oh my, what to do, what to do...?

Oh and, btw, our ice cubes are so clear I frequently wear one as a monocle - cool, eh?

Good points. I too thought the financial benefits were remote but had another look

Suppose you use 5 liters per day at 2B/liter for annual cost of 3560 B.

Filter cost of 8000B and annual maintenance of 800 B

Break even number of years=Y

3650Y=8000+800Y

Y=2.8 years

Where did I go wrong in the calculations? Are the assumptions off the mark? It looks too good.

[Dustoff]

Good points. I too thought the financial benefits were remote but had another look

Suppose you use 5 liters per day at 2B/liter for annual cost of 3560 B.

Filter cost of 8000B and annual maintenance of 800 B

Break even number of years=Y

3650Y=8000+800Y

Y=2.8 years

Where did I go wrong in the calculations? Are the assumptions off the mark? It looks too good.

Actually your very first calculation was incorrect which skewed the rest but it is a small mistake.

Our usage is only half of that or about 2.5L/day but we are only two people.

Just a couple of questions - do you feel that an 8000B filter will give the same quality as my delivered RO water (assuming they produce in a clean environment)? Is the 800B maintenance for filter replacement and is annually often enough?

Good post and thanks for your efforts..

[Bill97]

Good points. I too thought the financial benefits were remote but had another look

Suppose you use 5 liters per day at 2B/liter for annual cost of 3560 B.

Filter cost of 8000B and annual maintenance of 800 B

Break even number of years=Y

3650Y=8000+800Y

Y=2.8 years

Where did I go wrong in the calculations? Are the assumptions off the mark? It looks too good.

Actually your very first calculation was incorrect which skewed the rest but it is a small mistake.

Our usage is only half of that or about 2.5L/day but we are only two people.

Just a couple of questions - do you feel that an 8000B filter will give the same quality as my delivered RO water (assuming they produce in a clean environment)? Is the 800B maintenance for filter replacement and is annually often enough?

Good post and thanks for your efforts..

2.5x2x356=1780

1780Y=8000+800Y

Y=8.1 years which does push the economics into the marginal area

I do think you can get a good quality filter for around 8,000 baht, US design and parent company. I got one at HomePro at that price about a year ago. 8,265 B

The question of comparative quality is very difficult to answer because it depends on the water you put into the filter and the validity of your assumption that what you are buying is good. I used a old style filter, British, on some well water for about 10 years with good results, the water tested fine when I had it checked a couple of times. People liked it and nobody got sick.

Maintenance of course depends on input water quality and useage rate. With my old filter and a useage rate of well over 10 liters per day, I backwashed about once or twice a year when the taste changed a bit, cleaned the ceramic filter once a year and changed the resin and charcoal about once every two years. Once a year was recommended by the seller but they are sellers. Because I tested the water I found no need to change them so often. All that cost a little time and about 250 Baht per year.

I put in 800B per year maintenance thinking it was on the high side. The newer filters have 4 or 5 elements while my old one had 3. Also if you get a newer style the installer(included in HomePro prices) will want to service it every 3 months (not included in the price) which I and others have found to be unnecessary since inspection of the filter elements/materials indicates that they are not clogged or can be washed and the water smells and tastes fine. The guy wants to do it every 3 months regardless of your usage rate and input water quality! So, yes with your usage rate, once a year would probably be enough or more than enough.

If I thought I would get better water by buying big bottles (which I did for almost 10 years), I would be buying them but the only way to really know would be to do periodic comparative testing. I am comfortable being in control of the filter.

Boy, you really got me going.

[Deke]

Fair enough but I was brought up with the school of thought that if you listened to the so called "experts" on what you should and should not eat/drink (I was gonna say "put in your mouth" but thought better of it), you'd starve to death. Each to their own and my current practice has served me fine these past few years so if I start to grow tits, I'll put that down to my beer consumption rather than dodgy water

Maybe we'd be better off to just drink beer and not worry about the water quality.

[Dustoff]

2.5x2x356=1780

1825? Again, I think there are 365 days in a year..

Another excellent post however and thanks for that info. I am now considering a filter..

[Bill97]

2.5x2x356=1780

1825? Again, I think there are 365 days in a year..

Another excellent post however and thanks for that info. I am now considering a filter..

Thanks for pointing that out. I am getting better at transposing numbers.

[mcgriffith]

I have a story (oh god here he goes again?!) about bottled water.

A zillion years ago (35 to be exact) when I lived in Laguna Beach, it was all the rage amongst our alfalfa sprout chewing, Birkenstock wearing brethren to be "pure". Organic veggies, etc. One of the early places where people really got into being concerned about the environment, having a minimum impact with our habits, recycling, etc.

The bottled water of choice was Bastanchury. An old revered company, around for ages, a pioneer in bottled water. They had their own proprietary well up in the mountains (big hills more like it) in the San Gabriel Valley in southern California.

We drank this water for years, guzzled it, immaculate and pure it was. And it tasted good, and we were good.

THEN, the news came out.

The Thiokol Corporation, who had a nice little ROCKET FUEL producing plant not too far away....apparently had a little "leakage" problem. You have to remember, this is in the dawn of the era when experts were first able to do groundwater studies, and started using testing equipment able to discern ppm.

Bastanchury shut down their operation, got bought out by the Yosemite Water Company, and moved their operation to the desert.....new wells.

Probably near a 1940's era nuclear test facility/dump site, is my cynical guess.

I'm going back to drinking tap water, after remembering this, and reading this thread!

[Rasseru]

I am going to go with an under-sink reverse osmosis filter system, connected to a small special purpose outlet located next to the sink.

Thanks to all for your advise and suggestions.

[Bill97]

I am going to go with an under-sink reverse osmosis filter system, connected to a small special purpose outlet located next to the sink.

Thanks to all for your advise and suggestions.

Congratulations. But those filter systems take up a lot of space under sink in a small kitchen, space you might want for something else. Have you considered the alternative of putting it in the storage room since it is only three small flex hoses that would have to go through the wall into the sink area? Might be easier access for service too.

[Rasseru]

But those filter systems take up a lot of space under sink in a small kitchen, space you might want for something else. Have you considered the alternative of putting it in the storage room since it is only three small flex hoses that would have to go through the wall into the sink area? Might be easier access for service too.

Thanks for the suggestion. We have quite a lot of storage space in the planned kitchen, so it is not a critical issue, but your idea is a good one and I am going to give it some consideration.

[enginemand]

I am new to this forum so hope my etiquette is ok.

Given that in the west we get continual moaning about the stupidity of drinking bottled water, which is no better than tap water, and indeed in many respects worse due to the leaching of chemicals into the water, the high cost of bringing the stuff from abroad etc, and is fantastically more expensive than tap water ( a factor of 50 as i recall) why isn't more done to sort out the Thai drinking water rather than dishing out expensive RO water?

Sand filters and chlorination are surely not rocket science?

Thanks

Engineman

[mcgriffith]

I've settled on refilling a 6L container with RO water from a dispenser machine in front of my local soi Tesco Lotus Express. Costs 3 B for 6 liters.

Makes crystal clear ice cubes. Tastes fine. Minimal carbon footprint. Sure it is water from the Ping, or wells, filtered and purified. And then filtered and purified again.

But the more you read about water, and bottled water in particular, the more you will realize that when you take a sip of your imported Fiji water @ $10 a liter....it probably contains at least one atom of Aristotle's pi_s.....

Quit buying this basic commodity at an exorbitant price. It is a scam and a rip off, pandering to fear. It is marketing, pure and simple.

I was dumbstruck reading an earlier post on this topic by a well meaning chap who said he only uses (Brand X) imported from EU for all his needs.....brushing teeth, cooking, etc.

Ah well, to each their own....

[nokia]

I've settled on refilling a 6L container with RO water from a dispenser machine in front of my local soi Tesco Lotus Express. Costs 3 B for 6 liters.

Makes crystal clear ice cubes. Tastes fine. Minimal carbon footprint. Sure it is water from the Ping, or wells, filtered and purified. And then filtered and purified again.

But the more you read about water, and bottled water in particular, the more you will realize that when you take a sip of your imported Fiji water @ $10 a liter....it probably contains at least one atom of Aristotle's pi_s.....

Quit buying this basic commodity at an exorbitant price. It is a scam and a rip off, pandering to fear. It is marketing, pure and simple.

I was dumbstruck reading an earlier post on this topic by a well meaning chap who said he only uses (Brand X) imported from EU for all his needs.....brushing teeth, cooking, etc.

Ah well, to each their own....

--

I started using it recently. It is filtered and UV treated (but no RO).

You can bring your 1L, 5L, 6L, 19L whatever. Put your coins in the machine, push a button.....

Costs a whopping 2 baht for 4 liters, and I trust it over the water delivery services. I have no idea where THEY get the water they're filling their bottles with. My machine obviously gets it from the city water supply, filters it and treats it with UV to kill bacteria. Tastes good, makes great ice cubes....and doesn't have any off duty policemen driving a diesel-belching pickup truck despoiling the planet. Nothing against policemen, or diesel pickups....I just hate the idea of all that wasted energy to bring me water. And I reuse the same Tesco Lotus 5L bottle, personally wash it after every use, and make sure it is a clean receptacle.

My 200 satang's worth

It's a good choice, but it's not easy lugging a dozen 6L containers every fortnight on the pickup bed, to the machine at Tesco Hang Dong. It costs 5B for 6 litres, and i'm not sure whether they change the filters regularly. Maybe i might consider paying 12 baht for 20 litre for Glacier, if they deliver to my doorstep.

Saves effort & time.

mcgriffith, are you sure it's RO? And how many bottles do you carry there each time? One?

[mcgriffith]

I'll take a photo soon and post it here.

It says prominently on the front "Reverse Osmosis System"- I was wrong in my first post. Discovered my error a day later when I saw the lettering on the front of the machine- I'd missed it before. Also has the proprietary logo for "Microban" (a patented anti-bacterial process).

Just filled up a 6L this evening...still 3 baht total.

It's a block up a soi next to my apt bldg. I have 2 bikes, 1 is a Wave 100 with a basket. I can fit the 6L bottle, and a few shopping items in the basket, and hang other light items off the left handbar if necessary. 6L lasts me about 5 or 6 days. I use it only for drinking water, coffee/tea, ice cubes and cooking (I get free chilled bottled water daily at my gym, so don't drink so much at home).

If you have a family and/or use a lot of water, but own a pickup- buy some of those cheap but bulletproof plastic "milk crates"; about 2 feet long, 1 1/2 feet wide, and about a foot deep (sorry I'm US in measurements!). Bungee a group of them together in one area of the pickup truck bed. There are dozens of ways to secure these so they don't slide around. Fill your bottles, put them in the milk crates, and drive home....

[Dustoff]

I have pondered this question for many years here in Thailand and the answer came from the last place I would have expected. If we pay attention to what has worked in any culture and for the living beings in that country, some answers become so obvious that we cannot believe we missed them in the first place.

Other domestic animals have managed to survive quite successfully in this environment for longer than most humans can remember and perhaps we should look to them for the wisdom of survival.

Our Thai dog introduced us to a water source that is refreshed many times every day and, believe it or not, it is conveniently located in a porcelain bowl in our very own bathroom!

If you are not Catholic and therefore accustomed to getting your daily dose in this manner, I can provide a website where you may order knee-pads - and yes, they do ship to Thailand because, for some reason, many orders come from Thai ladies/ladyboys.

I do not know what this means but it works for us.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Dustoff

[nokia]

I'll take a photo soon and post it here.

It says prominently on the front "Reverse Osmosis System"- I was wrong in my first post. Discovered my error a day later when I saw the lettering on the front of the machine- I'd missed it before. Also has the proprietary logo for "Microban" (a patented anti-bacterial process).

Just filled up a 6L this evening...still 3 baht total.

It's a block up a soi next to my apt bldg. I have 2 bikes, 1 is a Wave 100 with a basket. I can fit the 6L bottle, and a few shopping items in the basket, and hang other light items off the left handbar if necessary. 6L lasts me about 5 or 6 days. I use it only for drinking water, coffee/tea, ice cubes and cooking (I get free chilled bottled water daily at my gym, so don't drink so much at home).

If you have a family and/or use a lot of water, but own a pickup- buy some of those cheap but bulletproof plastic "milk crates"; about 2 feet long, 1 1/2 feet wide, and about a foot deep (sorry I'm US in measurements!). Bungee a group of them together in one area of the pickup truck bed. There are dozens of ways to secure these so they don't slide around. Fill your bottles, put them in the milk crates, and drive home....

mcgriffith, it's very convenient for you since you live in a apt blk, rather than in a moo ban, and you can fill the 6L whenever you go past the machine.

Food vendors in Hang Dong also fill from the machine using 20L bottle(partially), and pour into the plastic jars for customers to drink. No need to boil.

At home, we boil just in case. The milk crates i had seen in Makro are for 1L bottles, and the oblong plastic containers are not suitable either. Maybe i will find a rubber mat, so that they dont slide around like jelly beans.

Anyone else filling from the ubiquitous machines found all over CM, and care to comment on the water quality?

[in the sky]

How do you get your drinking water in Chiangmai?

I know of three ways that people do. One way is to buy it in those small plastic containers, which I think of as containing a liter of water, but maybe it is less than that. Another is to buy it in those large containers, which look to be made of heavy duty plastic of some kind, and which probably hold 25 liters or more of water. The third way is to treat tap water through some kind of reverse osmosis or other filtration system. (Some people may have wells that produce clean drinking water, but I don't know any.)

Are there any other ways to get drinking water here?

I have always bought my drinking water here in the small containers, but want to switch to one of the other two ways, both for convenience and because it seems so wasteful to buy it in containers that get thrown out (I'd dearly love to find out that they get recycled -- do they?).

If you get your water in the large containers or through filtering at home, do you like the taste of the water? If anyone has tried all three kinds of water here, do they taste the same or are there differences? If they are different, how so?

Any other points, apart from taste, that you think I should consider in deciding which way to go?

During the rainy season I take water off the to of my rain collection tank right after there is a good downpour- tastes great. Dry season I get reusable plastic bottles delivered. Haven't gotten sick from either and don't expect to.

[RobinHolmes]

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/buy.html

Look at the above website. It makes any water safe to drink at any time. Rain water, River water, Any water. Okay the initial cost seems high but the cost per litre would be only less than 2 Baht.

[Dustoff]

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/buy.html

Look at the above website. It makes any water safe to drink at any time. Rain water, River water, Any water. Okay the initial cost seems high but the cost per litre would be only less than 2 Baht.

Having traveled in very remote areas of the world where the water was extremely dangerous to drink, I would consider this product but only if I suddenly became rich as there are other cheaper/safe alternatives. For home use, I think this is inappropriate.

As I posted here long ago, Polsestar delivers our RO water in 1-liter bottles with very convenient screw tops and in crates of twenty recycled bottles for 2 Baht/liter. To the door and they will happily carry it right inside for you. No mess, no fuss, they fit right into the fridge, no filters to replace, no lugging tons of water from the local store or water machine or feeling guilty about throwing plastic bottles away every week.. The only extra thing I do is make sure we take a mineral suppliment occasionally if our diet is a bit lame...

I was kidding about drinking out of the toilet and rainwater is da kine but when near urban centers it picks up the pollutants in the air - you may also get grief from the anti-hydrogen peroxide crowd since rainwater is loaded with it.

[mcgriffith]

I was kidding about drinking out of the toilet and rainwater is da kine but when near urban centers it picks up the pollutants in the air - you may also get grief from the anti-hydrogen peroxide crowd since rainwater is loaded with it.

Not to mention bird and gecko poop and dust and cement grit and......

Hey, if I lived in a moo baan I'd probably order it delivered as well.

Here's some photos of the machine in my soi I took this afternoon:

Whatever works for you, works for me, too!

[nokia]

Not to mention bird and gecko poop and dust and cement grit and......

Hey, if I lived in a moo baan I'd probably order it delivered as well.

Here's some photos of the machine in my soi I took this afternoon:

Whatever works for you, works for me, too!

Thanks for the pics Mcgriffith. Looks good.

Do you drink straight from it like most locals or do you boil it before drinking?

[neilrob]

During the rainy season I take water off the to of my rain collection tank right after there is a good downpour- tastes great. Dry season I get reusable plastic bottles delivered. Haven't gotten sick from either and don't expect to.

Finally someone who takes a rational approach to getting drinking water. We wait until a good storm has cleaned the air (and our roof) for several hours and then collect rain water. We fill tanks holding many thousands of litres in a few hours in a good storm. This reserve lasts us through the dry seaon, without any negative effect on the environment from plastic bottles or transport or reverse osmosis or whatever. We use naturally distilled water.

[mcgriffith]

Thanks for the pics Mcgriffith. Looks good.

Do you drink straight from it like most locals or do you boil it before drinking?

I have never boiled water here- except when making tea!

[uptoyoumyfriend]

after reading through the entire four pages of this thread i came to the conclusion that many of you are obsessed with your fears and should live in the bubble back home.as for me personally i will just stick to leo,with ice.from the tab.