American Election Results 2004

[taxexile]

as a brit i am very happy to see bush re-elected.

i dont know much about his domestic record but i do know that during these crazy times the world very much needs a strong america that isnt frightened to fight.

these are not times for pacifists or apologists.

without bush and his backroom boys , the menace that is radical islamic terrorism would be much more widespread than it already is.

they saved the world from the nazis and the japanese in the 1940's , they kept communism at bay during the 50's, 60's and 70's and they will rub the face of islamic terrorism in the dirt in the 00's.

those that belittle the efforts of the usa should get out their history books and start thanking uncle sam for the freedom that they enjoy today.

much about the american psyche and personality is wrong and abhorrent , but these days it is just what is needed. more power to them.

[chuchok]

Bush has made the mess America now has, so it is up to him to clean it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Democrat Party principles claim to be there to give minorities a chance, yet when did a Democrat administration put a minority into a powerful position? Never. Bush said he would and did just that (Ms. Rice, Mr. Powell, numerous senior judges, etc.)

I think half the world would feel alot more comfortable if Colin Powell stayed on.Now that man sounds like a President.

[chuchok]

Bush has made the mess America now has, so it is up to him to clean it up. After the next four years there will no one to blame or commend but him. It seems only right that he should be responsible for his actions. It's just such a shame that so many people have died and will die because of his misguided foreign and domestic policies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually if you take into account Saddam's body count. And took that as an average then factor in the body count under US protection you have a negative number.

GWB is saving countless lives everyday we have taken Saddam out of the picture.

So much for your whining misguided bleeding heart.

No one absolutely no one will deny Saddam was an evil individual.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What was Saddams body count?

[SoCal]

Yes maybe your right. Next time Im in the US, I will befriend Bubba

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gent, Bubba was a silly boy. Liked to play his Sax, and talk about his underwear. Grew up in a destitute home, with only his mother. He was a definite hillbilly, but likeable none the less. Favorite food was jello salad. (no barf icon.) Say what you want about Bubba, but he did go to Oxford, and went on to be President.

When it comes to generalizations, which a lot of people seem to be making about the American people, I am unsure what is more stupid, the generalization or the espouser?

No personal offense Gent.

[stroll]

There is a very vocal and strong far-right wing element within the Republican Party. For many people like me, who tend to lean Republican but are not fanatical Republican, the possibility of this element gaining stronger control and moving the Republican Party even further to the right, is just as scary a thought as having the Ice Queen elected to the White House.

The fact is that as a whole, the American population is generally centrist but more to the right of center (ie., conservative) than to the left.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting observation. Now after reading your comments about considering popular votes to be 'moving closer to communism' and refering to the BBC being a 'communist news network', I am not surprized about above quoted comments. It does appear somewhat of an eccentric view to me, I guess after McCarthy the US lost most of the left leaning popular voices, hence the perceptions.

I am curious to learn what the 'far-right wing element' might be, when you regard yourself, and possibly posters like Boon Mee as near the center of the aisle?

Perhaps the question reveals my own bias, but it is a genuine enquiry, not a wind-up.

[Dickie]

they saved the world from the nazis

No, the Russians did that, check your war history. The US actually stopped Stalin from conquering the whole of europe.

the japanese in the 1940's ,

Forgotten the 'small' bit we played in finally stopping them in their tracks? The Aussies were 'us' then.

they kept communism at bay during the 50's, 60's and 70's

True.

and they will rub the face of islamic terrorism in the dirt in the 00's.

No they won't, it will still be active in the 10's. The US, for all its military strength, doesn't have the firepower to take on such a widely scattered and organised movement as these terrorists. It will need to re-organise its armies, moving from large, fairly static, battles that work against nations to small mobile skirmishes that are needed to combat small, fairly mobile groups of people.

See how many troops are committed in the middle east to face how many terrorists?

those that belittle the efforts of the usa should get out their history books and start thanking uncle sam for the freedom that they enjoy today.

Including you, I think

much about the american psyche and personality is wrong and abhorrent , but these days it is just what is needed. more power to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "get stuck in" attitude is what's needed, I agree. I'm not sure that how it's been done is what's going to get the job done, if "the job" can be done at all.

[Spee]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... refering to the BBC being a 'communist news network'

I am curious to learn what the 'far-right wing element' might be, when you regard yourself, and possibly posters like Boon Mee as near the center of the aisle?

Perhaps the question reveals my own bias, but it is a genuine enquiry, not a wind-up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No worries, I know it's not a wind-up.

Actually, I made no references to the BBC. It is a common American joke that CNN is so left-leaning and made no bones about being in love with the Clintons, that it is jokingly referred to as the Clinton News Network. After the abhorrent manner in which they slurred and slanted the presidential election, I would prefer to refer to them as the Communist News Network from here on out.

I can't speak for Boon Mee, but I do consider myself only slightly right of center and I don't follow the Republican party line.

There are many things that the far-right espouses (e.g., no gay tolerance, prayer in school, no abortion, cell research, etc.) that I firmly do not agree with.

On the other hand, whether we choose to believe it or not, the Democrat party is controlled by the doves and the Republican party is controlled by the hawks. I'm a firm believer in a strong military and using it when necessary.

As Bush said, his number one responsibility as President is to protect and defend the American people. He has met this responsiblity admirably and I respect his decisions. Clinton on the other hand, did not meet this responsibility at all, and I have no respect for him because of it.

There's obviously a lot more to it, but I hope this helps explain my stance and views a little clearer.

[Dickie]

Here are some basic facts that it kills people like you to face:

The American economy is strong. The vast majority of American people are getting more money in their pocket due to Bush tax cuts. All of the leading economic indicators point to a robust economy in the future. This is quite a bit different than the recession in the making that Bush inherited from Clinton.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If your idea of a strong economy is one where it needs $billions a year sucked in from the rest of the world in order to stay afloat, then - yes - you have a strong economy. The "leading economic indicators" are talking crap, the US economy is teetering on the edge due to the ridiculous size of its national debt. Other things are happening out there that may well deal the US economy a severe blow, one big one being the switching from the dollar to the euro as the currency of choice.

This is one basic fact that kills people like you to face.

What swapping to euros could mean to the US

[Spee]

and they will rub the face of islamic terrorism in the dirt in the 00's.

No they won't, it will still be active in the 10's. The US, for all its military strength, doesn't have the firepower to take on such a widely scattered and organised movement as these terrorists. It will need to re-organise its armies, moving from large, fairly static, battles that work against nations to small mobile skirmishes that are needed to combat small, fairly mobile groups of people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One key to shutting down the terrorist organizations is to shut down their cash flow. Whether they choose to believe it or not, these wackos are hypocrites because they denounce capitalism yet they rely on capitalism to fund their activities.

You want to shut down the terrorists, then you shut down their cash flow. Then they get stuck and they can't move. Then they become isolated and it is much easier to move in and take them out.

Once the US and the legitimate economies of the world finish banding together to shut down these sources of money, and heavily penalize those who don't toe that line, then these wackos will be close to being put down.

Another key to defeating terrorism is helping people create stable societies with stable economies. Regardless of all the infighting about who is right and wrong, which religion is right and wrong, there is one constant. That is what most men (and women) really want is the ability to earn enough money to feed, clothe and house their families, and the right to practice their chosen religion and customs without fear of reprisal.

Whether people like to admit it or not, this requires a lot of tolerance and a bit of a capitalist free market attitude. Some world leaders are scared to death of empowering people to this degree because it threatens their absolute power. But the fact is that we have terrorists because people feel desperation and lack of empowerment. This is fixed by giving them employment and freedom.

[Spee]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're basing your position on some drivel from some extremist web site?

You need to clue in a bit.

The fact is the Euro is already strong against the dollar.

Several years ago when the Euro was introduced, it hovered around $0.82. For a long time now, it has been over $1.20. So what?

Seems to me it is a win-win situation, not kill or be killed. A strong European economy and currency is good for the US, and vice versa.

[rainman]

We are opening a temporary US Political thread here, although it's against the Forum rules and it's not direct Thailand related.

Please avoid bashing! The thread will be closed if it goes too hot.

Enjoy! Thanks!

/Admin

Thanks George, you are a legend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Voting for Bush once is historical. Voting for him twice is legendary. I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to bash Bush, what he's doing to the world is speaking for itself. What's the sad thing is that Americans still think they need to liberate everyone. Come on, many countries have more liberties than the US. Lets not even start with TV censorship.

And saying that we would have more terrorism without Bush is BS. The entire imposing of the US foreign policy in other countries is causing terrorism in the first place. I'm not saying terrorism is right, but the US has created it themselves. We don't have terrorist attacks in countries such as Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, or South Africa, Australia, etc. Why? Because these countries don't impose/force their policies onto others.

Face it, the only enemies you have are the ones you create yourself.

[Spee]

We don't have terrorist attacks in countries such as ... Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, or South Africa, Australia, etc.

Why? Because these countries don't impose/force their policies onto others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I dunno about all that ....

With respect to Germany, there was this little incident called WWII and this guy with the funny little moustache called Hitler. Concentration camps weren't terrorism?

With respect to Switzerland and Sweden, they got by with Hitler by appeasing him, not by being "neutral."

With respect to South Africa, are you saying that radical enforcement of government-sponsored apartheid policy wasn't a form of terrorism?

With respect to Australia, are you saying the Bali bombing wasn't directed at them?

C'mon, you're going to have to do a little better than that!!

[Darknight]

This is BOOORING

The bugger is there for another 4 years.

Let's just hope he has got more then one braincell so he doesn't blow the planet to ######.

The fact that americans were to stupid or o so smart to vote him into office is not relevant anymore.

They did it period.

unfortunatly we all have to live with it..........that's life.

[English Noodles]

Who gives a ###### about what you do in the states? go and bore some one who gives a ######. TIT

[Dickie]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you're basing your position on some drivel from some extremist web site?

You need to clue in a bit.

The fact is the Euro is already strong against the dollar.

Several years ago when the Euro was introduced, it hovered around $0.82. For a long time now, it has been over $1.20. So what?

Seems to me it is a win-win situation, not kill or be killed. A strong European economy and currency is good for the US, and vice versa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was just one website showing much the same thing as several others, and you obviously didn't bother to read it before launching into your "clue in" stuff. The relative strengths of the two currencies is not relevant, it's the dumping of the dollar for the euro that could cause serious problems to the US. There are plenty of sites out there discussing this very point, some in great depth. Try looking at a few before claiming that a strong EU is good for the US.

[stroll]

It is the softie do-gooders and pacifists that do more harm than good in this world. The good old Christian and religious boys that went out and destroyed more than half the worlds cultures... Go take your Bible or whatever and preach it to the radical islamic terrorists... I am sure they'll listen to you..... just before taking your head off.

Yes, turn the other cheek.... my A55!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do need to inform yourself as to the meaning of the terms you use. Pacifists, such as myself, do not go out and destroy anything, including alleged terrorists. Religions are interpreted and used by people in different ways. Your continual uninformed rants do little to up your credibility.

We don't have terrorist attacks in countries such as ... Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, or South Africa, Australia, etc.

Why? Because these countries don't impose/force their policies onto others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I dunno about all that ....

With respect to Germany, there was this little incident called WWII and this guy with the funny little moustache called Hitler. Concentration camps weren't terrorism?

With respect to Switzerland and Sweden, they got by with Hitler by appeasing him, not by being "neutral."

With respect to South Africa, are you saying that radical enforcement of government-sponsored apartheid policy wasn't a form of terrorism?

With respect to Australia, are you saying the Bali bombing wasn't directed at them?

C'mon, you're going to have to do a little better than that!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reference was obviously about terrorist attacks in the near past by outside forces in the home territory of these nations.

Rethink and post again. Rainman may have a point here.

[JimGant]

Chonabot,

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz why does it always have to retort to the " We saved your asses!" speel with you yanks?

You're right. That was a little over the top. And certainly not aimed at our Limey cousins.

When I say "Europe," I somehow don't mentally include Britain. (I swear, my early geography lessons differentiated between the "British Isles" and "Europe.")

And I certainly know how valiant Britain was during WWII -- unlike your "European" allies. I'm glad we could help you guys win 'your' war.

I guess I'm just tired of paying billions a year to have troops STILL in Germany and Korea, especially if we're going to be hassled by those we're supposedly helping.

Being a superpower sucks. And it's expensive. As has been pointed out on this thread, our 'current account' is dangerously out-of-kilter. The dollar will certainly have to devalue, and we (the US) will need to readjust our global committments. Bush, with all his faults, is probably more able to do this than Kerry would have been.

Cheers.

[chonabot]

Nice points Jim , 1/3 of my direct family live in the States and I like the place and most of the people I have met , I NEVER mention politics when I'm over there , the last 19 pages have given me a great old laugh.

Best bits were the Pvtdick and IamMaic show.

Priceless

[stroll]

And I certainly know how valiant Britain was during WWII -- unlike your "European" allies. I'm glad we could help you guys win 'your' war.

I guess I'm just tired of paying billions a year to have troops STILL in Germany and Korea, especially if we're going to be hassled by those we're supposedly helping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right. I encourage you to withdraw your troops from Germany and employ them in whichever country you aim to liberate next.

The alleged threat from evil communists is no longer there, no need to assume the necessicty of fighting a conventional invasion off on German and British territory to save your homecountry from any attacks now. Please resist the urge to liberate France a second time within the next four years, Muslim extremists are your enemy now. We don't have any in Europe, go somewhere else.

Thank you and good night.

[kasi]

Bush has made the mess America now has, so it is up to him to clean it up. After the next four years there will no one to blame or commend but him. It seems only right that he should be responsible for his actions. It's just such a shame that so many people have died and will die because of his misguided foreign and domestic policies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually if you take into account Saddam's body count. And took that as an average then factor in the body count under US protection you have a negative number.

GWB is saving countless lives everyday we have taken Saddam out of the picture.

So much for your whining misguided bleeding heart.

No one absolutely no one will deny Saddam was an evil individual.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What was Saddams body count?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Over 600,000 and still counting the bodies in the mass graves!

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000070.html

[george]

This temporary political thread is closing now.

Welcome to http://www.bearpit.net , a forum dedicated for International polital discussions.

Cheers,

Admin