Residence For Kids

[buasaard]

I have a nice question to ask :

A thai friend of mine has a daughter born in Italy with an italian man. She is now 9 years old and has only italian nationality.

I guess as she was born in Italy she cannot have thai nationality, his father passed away a few years ago and the mother came back to Thailand with the daughter.

They never cared to get the residence to Thailand and this year when going to school, they say they can't register her beacuse she hasn't the residence in Thailand. At the ampheur they said they need something from thai embassy in Italy that the baby is going to move to Thailand.

I called italian embassy, but they were pretty unhelpful, who's the mother? who are you? why are you calling for a baby? and all those nice inquiries....

At the end they asked all the original documents from italian municipalities....In 2004 I don't understand how possibly the haven't a netwkork with italy...but that's it.....

Presently the girl stays with a non-immigrant visa and every 3 months get out of Thailand like any other foreigner.

I have a few question to ask :

1) Does anybody know the procedure to get the residence for a minor? Does she have to prove income like any other foreigner considering she has thai mother and no father?

2) Once she got the residence , is she entitled to a permanent residence without having to get out of Thailand every 3 months?

Before going to immigration in Phuket, I would like to know something, considering that this year at the airport a smart custom officer didn't want to allow my wife entering with a Thai passport! He said since she had never used thai passport for 15 years, she had to enter with italian passport....

Thank you.

Claudio

[samran]

Firstly, your friends daughter is eligible for Thai nationality, however being born overseas this needs to be registered. As to where it can be registered so long after the fact, I am not sure, but there are two options that I can see Claudio.

Firstly, they should try contacting the Department of Consular Affairs in Bangkok and explain situation (http://www.mfa.go.th/web/96.php). The are in charge dealing with issues surrounding Thai citizens abroad. They may be able to give you the information you need to register your friends daughter as a Thai national.

The alternative is to try calling the Thai embassy in Rome (http://www.mfa.go.th/web/1869.php?depcode=22400100). It may be the case that you send off a certified copies of the Italian birth certificate and the mothers ID to the embassy there so they can issue a Thai birth certificate.

I am not totally sure, but these will be two routes which probably be most help to you.

As for your friend who entered on the Italian passport, she should depart the country and re-enter at Don Muang on her Thai passport. The officers there are very familiar with the concept of dual nationality (which is legal in Thailand). Officers at other entry points are less familiar with the particular details surrounding Thai law.

[Estrada]

There is absolutely no reason why her daughter should not have a one year Thai visa entered in her Passport. My wife is Thai and her daughter was born in England and has a British Passport. We entered Thailand when she was only 1 year old, and since then has not had to leave Thailand at all to renew her visa. As far as Thai immigration are concerned they will help the Thai Mother, and the children "BELONG" to the Mother not the Father. So if the Thai Mother does a runner with the kids, hard luck, TRT [Thai Rak Thai].

We renew her British Passport every 5 years and extend her visa every 12 months. When she is 18 she can decide if she wants to become Thai and have a Thai passport.

I cannot think why on earth she would need to do a Visa run every 3 months, unless the Thai Mother has relinquished her Thai Citizenship.

Thai immigration are very helpful, she should go and see them. There is no need to go out and come in again on a different Visa at all. Go to immigration with Birth Certificate, proving she is her Mother, and Italian Passport. They will probably issue a Visa on the spot. The Italian Passport should be vaild for 12 months minimum.

I love Thailand don't you?

Supageoff

[samran]

We renew her British Passport every 5 years and extend her visa every 12 months. When she is 18 she can decide if she wants to become Thai and have a Thai passport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Estrada,

Why don't you just get a Thai passport for your Daughter and be done with it. No more visa renewals will be needed.

I've got Australian and Thai dual nationality (born and mainly raised in OZ...my mum is Thai), and never have needed a visa for Thailand, as I simply use my Thai PP to enter.

[buasaard]

Thanks everybody,

tomorrow her mother is going to Bangkok with the birth certificate and starts the procedures to get dual nationality.

The problem I guess is mostly the thai attitude not to ask and not to insist. Someone told her she cannot have a one year visa and she did not insist, didn't know how to do it and waited we arrived in Phuket to solve this problem.

I wanted to try first at immigration in Phuket, but perhaps the dual nationality is the best way to solve problems for next 8 years. After that we'll see, she must decide of her life, probably for working reasons she'd better keep thai nationality so she can get also jobs reserved to thai people for other reasons it would be better to keep italian nationality. However it seems that relatives in Italy do not care much about her, she has a sister that his father had with the previous wife, but noone cares and I feel ashamed to be italian for this, though I guess these things happen all over the world. Luckily she has a small pension (about 300 Euro) until 18 years.

She will see and decide, hoping the choice of nationality will not be based only on thai nationalism....

Thanks again

Claudio

[jaidee]

Let me ensure you, according to thai law, kids up to 18 years old, can stay with their mother, Thai national, without visa renewal. The mother will be able to get dual citizenship, and a Thai passport for her daughter. Indeed, qas Thai administration is slow, she will need to insist. As for public schools, she will have to pay higher fees and the kid may be be refused, based on the fact that she is not (yet) a thai citizen.

Wish her and daughter all the best.

[bkk_mike]

The normal way of applying for a Thai passport if born abroad to a Thai parent is to take the birth certificate, parent's id card, marriage certificate, etc. etc. to the Thai embassy in the country that issued the birth certificate.

There, the child can be registered as Thai, and be issued with a Thai passport. Any child with a Thai parent is eligible for Thai nationality regardless of the country they're born in. (In Thailand, the MFA might be able to do it - I know from personal experience that the passport office in Laksi was unwilling to issue a passport on a foreign birth certificate).

Until the child is 21, there is no issue with holding 2 passports, regardless of both nationalities. After that, the child may have to give up one nationality but it depends on the countries involved. - i.e. Singapore, Belgium, Denmark don't allow citizens to hold dual nationality, UK, Australia, US do... (Italy - I don't know).

If it was a boy, there would be a possible reason for voluntarily giving up their Thai nationality to avoid national service, but for a girl, I see no reason to give it up where the other country doesn't require it. (The Thai constitution says that nobody else can take away your Thai nationality once you have it).

There is a separate issue of getting the child's name onto a Tabien Baan as a Thai national so that, on reaching 15, she will be eligible for a Thai ID card. For that, I believe you do need a certified translation into Thai of her Birth Certificate.

[moonman]

My kids had to show Thai house registration (Tabien Baan) and certified translations of birth certificates when starting Thai school. We got the passports and b/c translations at the Thai embassy in country of birth (Sweden). You probably have to do the same.

I don't think that Thai authorities in Bangkok can certify an Italian birth certificate. To do that, you need access to Italian authorities.

You might want to talk to the Italian embassy in Bangkok about the b/c translation.

[samran]

Italy now allows dual nationality

[PD0NVJ]

The normal way of applying for a Thai passport if born abroad to a Thai parent is to take the birth certificate, parent's id card, marriage certificate, etc. etc. to the Thai embassy in the country that issued the birth certificate.

There, the child can be registered as Thai, and be issued with a Thai passport. There is a separate issue of getting the child's name onto a Trabiën Baan as a Thai national so that, on reaching 15, she will be eligible for a Thai ID card. For that, I believe you do need a certified translation into Thai of her Birth Certificate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the way it works I dit it the same way like this and no problem at all, the whole proces took me about 10 minutes(Chiang Mai)at the city hall.

But, I had to take a Thai person (no Family, but an official or a Kamnan or so

) with me and HE must sign as local guaranter to confirm that the child is Thai and allive

She will get a social security number as well the same time.

P.S. Don't forget to take the child with you as they will look at the mayors office if she is actually in Thailand.

[kenkannif]

I was under the impression (and it's been covered on here before) that as long as you don't overly advertise dual nationality, it's okay for Thais to have it?

[buasaard]

my wife has dual nationality, whe entered in Thailand, with her italian passport for many years asking for a non-immigrant visa at thai embassy in Italy.

Everybody know of her dual status and when we apply for the visa she is the "local guarantor" for me and for herself and she shows to embassy both passports.

This year we ventured to enter in Thailandi with thai passport to save the visa fees which begin to be too expensive and an immigration officer had problem, he said she should use italian passport to enter.

A thai national shoul use a foreign passport to enter I asked? This pose a question to him, called someone superior and then wrote a note on the thai passport not to lose his face, my wife greeted him with a "wai" and everything was ok...

Thais are entitled legally to have dual nationality , unless the other country does not pose a problem. For instance if I am not wrong until few years ago who get USA nationality should relinquish the original one, or some arabi countries do the same, for instance I know for sure Egypt , as an egyptian living in Rome, when getting italian nationality should have left the egyptian but he refused and kept his original nationality.

Ciao

[samran]

I was under the impression (and it's been covered on here before) that as long as you don't overly advertise dual nationality, it's okay for Thais to have it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is OK to have it, but many many immigration officials still don't know the rule has changed. It is slowly changing.

In my early days of using a Thai PP (without my mum by my side) I was sometimes asked about it, and through politeness and the normal Thai to-ing and fro-oing so that no one loses face, I was always allowed in using my Thai PP.

My best advice is to always enter and leave Thailand at Don Muang, making sure you go through immigration there. The officers there seem to know what they are doing and are generally aware of the rules.