Suicide

[Doctor John]

Suicides in the UK and Ireland :

Almost 6,700 committed suicide

There was one suicide every 79 minutes

77% of suicides are by males

868 suicides by young people - more than two per day.

1998 figures, Samaritans

These are figures from the UK, where there are organisations like the Samaritans that actually talk hundreds of people out of Suicide per month.

In the UK there are all kind of support groups, and with Social Security you are not going to go hungry.

Many people come to Thailand and fall in love with the place, it is so different to what they are used to back home. It all seems so attractive, so tempting. So tempting in fact that many sell everything they have, leave wives and family, Jobs and careers to satisfy that temptation.

They arrive in Thailand to start their new life, maybe they have 2 - 3 Million Baht and they feel rich, they freely spend the money like they did when they was on holiday. Of course, they have to stay in an expensive apartment, after all, they are rich!

Fast Forward 2 years ....

Money Gone, family disowned them, they are scared to go back home to face the Credit card debts and the Bank loans that they got before they left their home country, they feel cheated, they drink to drown their sorrow, they then hate Thailand, they blame Thailand for their downfall, they become very cynical, they slam Farangs that send money to Thai girls ( secretly wishing that someone would send them money ), they become solitary creatures with few if any friends, overstay then hits the passport, they have no money to get to a border...rent is due........Cannot borrow any more....other people avoid them.....Hate Thailand , Hate Thailand, Hate Thailand!!!

The dream is over.

Another Suicide in Thailand is recorded.

And this high season, future statistics will be arriving in Bangkok daily.

Don't be so surprised at the Suicide rate amongst farang in Thailand, I for one am surprised it is not many times higher.

[IamMaiC]

Maybe it's not the Paradise some Farangs think it is

[Jockstar]

As has been said. Many come with a few mil in the bank and think i dont need to work. They go out and have a good time. Before they know it. the money is nearly gone. Shit! What am i gonna do? Never thought this through. Did they? I'll open a bar. Shit! Not enough money. Ok! I'll become a teacher. Fine for a month and then they cant hack it. Soon realise that they have no idea how to teach. so they hit the booze and this dwindles down their remaining funds. cant go home, cant get a job. No one loves me. ###### it! I'll show them. What will they do when i'm dead?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

SPAT!

[Jockstar]

SPLAT!

Not SPAT! Doh!

[DJ Pat]

I've seen and met a thousand guys in this situation, and it's quite a sad one to get into. quite why these guys give up everything and become teachers is a mystery but if that's their cup of tea then why not?

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

[Jockstar]

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

Totally agree Pat. When things get you down. No matter how low. I would never ever consider this. the problem is that they hit the booze and this is a depressant. So its not gonna get better by doing this.

[SK1972]

Sad to say, a lot of foreigners are disillusioned by Thailand. Thailand is a cheap country to live in.....however money goes quite quickly when one is enjoying themself.

Some of the foreigners living here are here because they can have a lifestyle which they can only dream of back home...........so long as the money doesnt run out. Some are here because of career advancement and global exposure etc.

There are always pros and cons to each country.

Why commit suicide?? Thats the coward way out!

[Jockstar]

When some people come here they have all these great ideas and dreams. These dreams can become reality if they work at it. But what alot of them dont think about is.

What if?

I cant get a bar.

I cant get a job.

I get a bar and lose everything.

I get fleeced by the first whore that i fall in love with and marry.

Just a few What ifs? there is alot more. But they dont think about that. The're to busy larging it up to care.

[DJ Pat]

They got themselves into their own situation by coming here, probably for the cheap sex on offer and are trying to live a life that still revolves around it. Difference is they have less money and can't do nothing about it.

[p_brownstone]

I've seen and met a thousand guys in this situation, and it's quite a sad one to get into. quite why these guys give up everything and become teachers is a mystery but if that's their cup of tea then why not?

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

"A thousand"? - nonsense ....... meaningless hyperbole.

"Suicide is for cowards" another, sadly typical, macho, "nothing can reduce me to that stage" statement. Meaningless and untrue.

Over 35 years ago I worked for the original Samaritans organisation in London, shortly after I arrived in Thailand in the early '70's I was one of the founder members of the Bangkok Samaritans.

Suicide is never an easy option - and forget about the “old wives” lore which claims that those who talk about committing suicide never really intend to do it, that too is nonsense.

In London, and later in Bangkok I have talked with over 120 people who were truly intent on committing suicide, and to my certain knowledge, despite everything I and others tried to do to help them, 37 eventually did kill themselves. Certainly some of these were down and outs, homeless, drug addicts etc., but many were educated and successful people who simply could not adapt or accept a sudden change in their circumstances or lifestyle.

Certainly, some of these people were talking to us in the faint hope that we would be able to suggest a way out of their predicament, but the majority simply wanted to talk to someone, even – maybe even preferably – a stranger to explain their decision and assert that it was not a character deficiency which brought them to this final decision, simply an acceptance that their lives had failed and it was time to move on.

[chuchok]

I've seen and met a thousand guys in this situation, and it's quite a sad one to get into. quite why these guys give up everything and become teachers is a mystery but if that's their cup of tea then why not?

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To say that suicide is for cowards, shows how little you know about it. I'm not talking about the average punter who falls for a bar girl, gets dumped and jumps from a high rise after he's had a few too many either.

[Doctor John]

It is indeed very serious:

There are around 4000 recorded suicides per year in the UK, but it is estimated that it is under-reported by 30 to 50 per cent.

It is among the 10 commonest causes of death, and the fourth commonest for young adults.

Since the 1960s the rates have been increasing.

These figures are from a country with Social services and organisations that will listen and help. The Samaritans do a fantastic job, they will get over half a Million calls over the Christmas period.

Many of the farangs that suicide in Thailand maybe would not have done this in UK, but who knows?

So many do even with the support that is available in the UK.

It is no surprise that they do it here where there would be little support.

[DJ Pat]

I've seen and met a thousand guys in this situation, and it's quite a sad one to get into. quite why these guys give up everything and become teachers is a mystery but if that's their cup of tea then why not?

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To say that suicide is for cowards, shows how little you know about it. I'm not talking about the average punter who falls for a bar girl, gets dumped and jumps from a high rise after he's had a few too many either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok I take back what I said. I'll no longer offer my opinions on the subject :-(

[chuchok]

I've seen and met a thousand guys in this situation, and it's quite a sad one to get into. quite why these guys give up everything and become teachers is a mystery but if that's their cup of tea then why not?

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To say that suicide is for cowards, shows how little you know about it. I'm not talking about the average punter who falls for a bar girl, gets dumped and jumps from a high rise after he's had a few too many either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok I take back what I said. I'll no longer offer my opinions on the subject :-(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing is Pat, that I know of 2 people that topped themselves.

Nobody had a clue why.Each person had a happy life to every one that had anything to do with them.

The chances are that a high pecentage of people that do this suffer from a mental illness.

Personally, I would be too scared to top myself

[siamsam]

My father - High achiever, some of the highest academic grades in the uk, successful business, Professional martial artist,Team captain for England karate squad for a decade. Summer 1998 swallowed 100 pain-killers, drove to a nearby road-bridge and leapt 250 ft to his death, I was 23 at the time. He was 46. His suicide notes were long enough to write a book. Coroner came to the conclusion he wasn't unhinged. My dad organised the whole thing. Tied up business, returned monies to customers, even closed bank accounts, listed the people he wanted to have his worldly goods -right down to his gutiar. Said goodbye to friends and family, including myself ( Only after recalling last conversations we realised ). Seemed pretty rational/methodical people might say. My belief is that anyone who can jump off a bridge, onto the concrete below without bungee equipment or a safety net isn't in their right mind. His notes did state that he'd been enveloped in an agonising depression for years and that suicde was just a means to an end.

[SoCal]

Siam, thanks for your story.i

To call someone who commits suicide a coward is assnine.

What about Kamikazi? What about Japanese who do so out of disgrace/honor/duty? What about someone terminaly ill, and in terminal pain? What about someone who for whatever reason just cannot find happiness in this life?

My cousin shot himself in the heart earlier this year for the latter reason. Don't feel sorry for him in that he got what he wanted, but terrible and heart felt loss for those who he left behind who miss him with all their hearts.

I kind of prefer the judge not route, but you guys must prefer the clown route.

That's okay. To each their own.

[SK1972]

To call someone who commits suicide a coward is assnine.

So..........if someone owes a lot of money to a loan shark and decides to kill himself before the loan sharks get to him leaving his wife and family to deal with the loan sharks is not a coward???

I say it all depends on the situation.

[SoCal]

Mine was a general response to a general and assnine comment.

[kasi]

Suicide is the permanent solution to a temporary problem.

It doesn't represent a person's best thinking.

Maybe not cowardly but certainly not a strong position. Perhaps a mental illness.

[DJ Pat]

An old friend of mine since childhood topped himself in 1997. he had been nicked for drugs offences in Hong Kong and got gang raped in a HK prison. When he returned to the UK he never got over it and topped himself.

[meadish_sweetball]

[sOAPBOX]It's as always very easy to sit here and say that people who commit suicide are cowards. Oversimplification

Depression can go to the stage where you totally lose your sense of self-worth and the negative thought patterns drag you deeper and deeper down into a world that is glum and full of despair. Nothing is fun, your friends who try to cheer you up appear as hypocritical liars, or at best as well-meaning but daft.

When you are at that stage, it is not a question of coward or not anymore, because your whole being tells you it would be better if you were never born, and this notion weighs heavier and heavier on your mind. The outside world becomes some kind of static noise, an irrelevant backdrop to the negative mantras which you perceive as real.

In short, it is a disease, and to cure it, you need help. In some cases lots of help.

If none of your close friends nor yourself have experienced anything like this, then I believe you should think twice before just parroting clichés some other know-it-all parroted at an earlier occasion.

Rest assured that people who are contemplating suicide are reading this forum, and wisecracks can help to push them over the edge.

[/sOAPBOX]

[sriracha john]

My father - High achiever, some of the highest academic grades in the uk, successful business, Professional martial artist,Team captain for England karate squad for a decade. Summer 1998 swallowed 100 pain-killers, drove to a nearby  road-bridge and leapt 250 ft to his death, I was 23 at the time.    He was 46. His suicide notes were long enough to write a book. Coroner came to the conclusion he wasn't unhinged. My dad organised the whole thing. Tied up business, returned monies to customers, even closed bank accounts, listed the people he wanted to have his worldly goods -right down to his gutiar. Said goodbye to friends and family, including myself ( Only after recalling last conversations we realised ). Seemed pretty rational/methodical people might say. My belief is that anyone who can jump off a bridge, onto the concrete below without bungee equipment or a safety net isn't in their right mind. His notes did state that he'd been enveloped in an agonising depression for years and that suicde was just a means to an end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm very sorry for your loss, siamsam, but I appreciate very much your posting of some of the facts regarding suicide and depression. It's not all about losers chosing a "cowardly" act. Lay people often fail to see the agony a depression sufferer goes through. Thank you again for your input.

also....WELL SAID, meadish.

[Sulaphat]

I believe that suicide is very often, if not almost always, the outcome of untreated or unsucessfully treated depression.

I understand that depression can be triggered by traumatic or upsetting experiences. There is also a genetic component to it that makes some people more susceptible than others and it tends to run in families to some extent.

Whatever the cause, environmental or genetic, most doctors believe that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. This imbalance is often attributed to a lack of or improper synaptic uptake of one or more of the neurotransmitters dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin.

While some personal life choices may lead to an event that triggers depression, the biological basis of depression is not something that one can choose or elect to turn on or off. It is not something that can be easily overcome by oneself. Left untreated, or improperly treated, it all too often ends with a suicide. I would be hesitant to call anyone a coward who suffered from depression and took his or her life.

[meemiathai]

Depression can go to the stage where you totally lose your sense of self-worth and the negative thought patterns drag you deeper and deeper down into a world that is glum and full of despair. Nothing is fun, your friends who try to cheer you up appear as hypocritical liars, or at best as well-meaning but daft.

I have been depressed for most of my life. Still getting more and more depressed each day. Strangely, at the same time no one single person who knows me can notice it coz I look very cheerful and optimistic from the outside. Joke about almost anything anytime, always smiling, singing, dancing, and take nothing seriously. But deep inside, to me life is meaningless. the only reason I should still be here is to take care of/make happy my lovely wife and my 2 very beautiful cats.(Very importantly, protecting them from cruelty of human beings!) Oherwise, take me away anytime, mai ben'rai.

It is not exactly known to me what is causing all these problems(phenomena, a better word, maybe). But seeing human beings/animals being treated with cruelty on a daily basis, just think of the great amount of sufferings being produced everywhere every moment in the world.-- Saddens me. How superficial human interactions are.(well I live in HK, what's it like in the west?) How dumb and lazy people/but capable of being wicked(strange world, isn't it?) receive massive incomes whilst smart and hard-working genuine people get underpaid and looked down at. (I'm a civil servant, by the way)

[phormio]

Suicides in the UK and Ireland :

Almost 6,700 committed suicide

There was one suicide every 79 minutes

77% of suicides are by males

868 suicides by young people - more than two per day.

1998 figures, Samaritans 

These are figures from the UK, where there are organisations like the Samaritans that actually talk hundreds of people out of Suicide per month.

In the UK there are all kind of support groups, and with Social Security you are not going to go hungry.

Many people come to Thailand and fall in love with the place, it is so different to what they are used to back home. It all seems so attractive, so tempting. So tempting in fact that many sell everything they have, leave wives and family, Jobs and careers to satisfy that temptation.

They arrive in Thailand to start their new life, maybe they have 2 - 3 Million Baht and they feel rich, they freely spend the money like they did when they was on holiday. Of course, they have to stay in an expensive apartment, after all, they are rich!

Fast Forward 2 years ....

Money Gone, family disowned them, they are scared to go back home to face the Credit card debts and the Bank loans that they got before they left their home country, they feel cheated, they drink to drown their sorrow, they then hate Thailand, they blame Thailand for their downfall, they become very cynical, they slam Farangs that send money to Thai girls ( secretly wishing that someone would send them money ), they become solitary creatures with few if any friends, overstay then hits the passport, they have no money to get to a border...rent is due........Cannot borrow any more....other people avoid them.....Hate Thailand , Hate Thailand, Hate Thailand!!!

The dream is over.

Another Suicide in Thailand is recorded.

And this high season, future statistics will be arriving in Bangkok daily.

Don't be so surprised at the Suicide rate amongst farang in Thailand, I for one am surprised it is not many times higher.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've talked about suicide in Thailand, but not about Thais who commit suicide. Thailand is a buddhist country. Europe(forgive me Britain) and America(very high suicide rate) are Christian countries(heaven save us all). The cultural contexts are quite different.

For Christians its the ultimate no-no, isn't it ? But what does Buddhist thought have to say about suicide?

Being human, we know we are mortal and time is limited. Perhaps in going to Thailand many of the foreigner suicides have been happier than otherwise possible. Coping with difficult circumstances for long periods of time grinds you down. Underneath layers of cultural veneer, nihilism is a predominant characteristic of western socieities. Paricularly in the States(can't speak for our English Cousins, though I suspect the competitive instinct is not so outrightly nasty as in the US - just look at the pop culture reality TV than many americans love ,as well as many other manifestations of the dog-eat-dog ethos), the competition between people with the constant reminder of social darwinist instincts - win at any cost no matter what - can lead the appearance of success to seem hollow. Almost everyone has an inherent sense of fairness or justice, which some refer to as synderesis, which is habitually and continuously in contradiction to daily routines and occurrences.

Ah, consciousness has its costs. Non-sentient beings don't do themselves in, do they?

Enough babble.

[meom]

I tend to believe that foreigners who commit suicide in LOS probably would have done the same if they were stuck in their own country.

Can't really fault them for picking paradise (LOS) to go down cause it's a lot closer to heaven than ######.

[sriracha john]

Depression can go to the stage where you totally lose your sense of self-worth and the negative thought patterns drag you deeper and deeper down into a world that is glum and full of despair. Nothing is fun, your friends who try to cheer you up appear as hypocritical liars, or at best as well-meaning but daft.

I have been depressed for most of my life. Still getting more and more depressed each day. Strangely, at the same time no one single person who knows me can notice it coz I look very cheerful and optimistic from the outside. Joke about almost anything anytime, always smiling, singing, dancing, and take nothing seriously. But deep inside, to me life is meaningless. the only reason I should still be here is to take care of/make happy my lovely wife and my 2 very beautiful cats.(Very importantly, protecting them from cruelty of human beings!) Oherwise, take me away anytime, mai ben'rai.

It is not exactly known to me what is causing all these problems(phenomena, a better word, maybe). But seeing human beings/animals being treated with cruelty on a daily basis, just think of the great amount of sufferings being produced everywhere every moment in the world.-- Saddens me. How superficial human interactions are.(well I live in HK, what's it like in the west?) How dumb and lazy people/but capable of being wicked(strange world, isn't it?) receive massive incomes whilst smart and hard-working genuine people get underpaid and looked down at. (I'm a civil servant, by the way)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you seen anyone professionally or been assessed by a health care professional? If not, I would strongly suggest that you do... as it is possible that you might be helped with these thoughts/feelings. You sound as an intelligent and sensitive person, but you also sound clinically depressed. Remember this, my friend, you are not alone with your thoughts/feelings...not by a long shot... and sometimes just knowing that, helps. It does for me.

[sriracha john]

You've talked about suicide in Thailand, but not about Thais who commit suicide. Thailand is a buddhist country. Europe(forgive me Britain) and America(very high suicide rate) are Christian countries(heaven save us all). The cultural contexts are quite different.

For Christians its the ultimate no-no, isn't it ? But what does Buddhist thought have to say about suicide?

Thai buddhists are typically very intolerant and non-compassionate of suicide. It will most often be viewed as a very bad sin, one delaying or even preventing reincarnation, which is a really bad "no-no". I think with their tendency to be closer followers to their buddhist faith then most americans are to their christian beliefs, they view suicide as a much less viable option on life's decisions-making chart, thus a lower suicide rate.

[Sulaphat]

Depression can go to the stage where you totally lose your sense of self-worth and the negative thought patterns drag you deeper and deeper down into a world that is glum and full of despair. Nothing is fun, your friends who try to cheer you up appear as hypocritical liars, or at best as well-meaning but daft.

I have been depressed for most of my life. Still getting more and more depressed each day. Strangely, at the same time no one single person who knows me can notice it coz I look very cheerful and optimistic from the outside. Joke about almost anything anytime, always smiling, singing, dancing, and take nothing seriously. But deep inside, to me life is meaningless. the only reason I should still be here is to take care of/make happy my lovely wife and my 2 very beautiful cats.(Very importantly, protecting them from cruelty of human beings!) Oherwise, take me away anytime, mai ben'rai.

It is not exactly known to me what is causing all these problems(phenomena, a better word, maybe). But seeing human beings/animals being treated with cruelty on a daily basis, just think of the great amount of sufferings being produced everywhere every moment in the world.-- Saddens me. How superficial human interactions are.(well I live in HK, what's it like in the west?) How dumb and lazy people/but capable of being wicked(strange world, isn't it?) receive massive incomes whilst smart and hard-working genuine people get underpaid and looked down at. (I'm a civil servant, by the way)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sriracha John's advice is very good. Getting help can make all the difference in the world for someone who is depressed and for the depressed person's family.

[Dr. Burrito]

Suicide is not an option and is for cowards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And by the time they get there, I'm thinking it may hurt a lot too.