Growing Corn, On The Cob.

[rice555]

Hello dougieboy, while looking for DVD's the other day here in town, I ran across 'King Corn', all about growing #2 yellow dent corn in the US, sort of an eye opener.

Two guy grew one acre of corn and took you through all of the steps, and where the corn went after harvest. There one acre was part of a 1,000 acre farm, it show all the steps in the growing.

rice555

[DaveD]

I am trying to learn a little about growing corn .as we might be planting soon if its not too late.the area is without irrigation and im afraid that come december the corn will die .

what is the best seed to use ?I understand my sister-in law is using Nk 81.and also NK858.

Are ther better varieties ?higher yielding ? drought resistant.

Price is 1100 baht per 10 kg.bag

I assume sowing at 3 kgs per rai

forgive me if i sound stupid ..........i am!

I have read the previous articles by maizefarmer and understand.

I hear only today that seed corn is in short supply in pakching and sikhiu areas.Does this make sense?

regards

Dave

[Khonwan]

Hi DaveD

I grow 20 or so rai of maize each year. Based on my own little experience of planting in August, and on what I was taught by more experienced and knowledgeable farmers locally, you are too late. August plantings result in nice large ears but do poorly in terms of weight. The yield is therefore poor. No risk of the crop suffering due to lack of rain though – the maize should be dead by December: the maize should be dried out on the stalk by then, ready for harvest.

There are at least two other members who should be able to confirm this, or otherwise, and answer your additional queries.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Maizefarmer]

Planting as late as August??? - come August I'm looking at the maize and wondering when I can start ensiling.

You can get it in earlier.

[Khonwan]

Nearly all rain-fed maize in my area is planted June/July, with the majority in July (after mungbean harvest). I plant in July.

Rgds

Khonwan

[DaveD]

Planting as late as August??? - come August I'm looking at the maize and wondering when I can start ensiling.

You can get it in earlier.

hi and thanks for your reply.this is 10 rai that i am able to rent for 4 years if i get it now .cassava is being harvested today then the land will be vacant.i was considering getting a crop of corn ,but it seems as if im too late .My sister in law,planted corn in the same area last week so i wonder what yield she will get.

As to my questions about varieties and characteristics , any prefered hybrid?

Dave

[DaveD]

Nearly all rain-fed maize in my area is planted June/July, with the majority in July (after mungbean harvest). I plant in July.

Rgds

Khonwan

Hi knonwan and thank you.We are not in a position to put in cassava ,so i was thinking of a more short term crop .i guess anything will be a problem now as we head into the dry season,but im open to suggestions

Dave

[Maizefarmer]

Okay - understood - you just didnt have access to the land any earlier. Fair enough. August is not too late - but you run a small risk of low rainfall just when its needed to mature the ears. Still, its a risk most would guess worth taking. And if it all goes pear shaped, it can be cut as cattle forage, or dry season silage.

Hybrid type? - depends where exactly you are (province), soil type, mechanical planter row spacing options - but either way you'd be looking for a pretty resistant type and one that grows in sandy/loam type soils (assuming that that is the soil type because cassava is the primary crop).

Edited August 11, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[DaveD]

Okay - understood - you just didnt have access to the land any earlier. Fair enough. August is not too late - but you run a small risk of low rainfall just when its needed to mature the ears. Still, its a risk most would guess worth taking. And if it all goes pear shaped, it can be cut as cattle forage, or dry season silage.

Hybrid type? - depends where exactly you are (province), soil type, mechanical planter row spacing options - but either way you'd be looking for a pretty resistant type and one that grows in sandy/loam type soils (assuming that that is the soil type because cassava is the primary crop).

Hi maizefarmer and thank you for your reply.

it seems that water is available from a klong about 20 metres away.would it be a big job to rig an irrigation system for this 10 rai ?

what would be required in terms of a suitable pump ,piping etc.This might make it possible to achieve 3 crops per year.

i imagine piping is removed for harvest ,then relaid for the next crop.have you heard of such piping sprinklers being stolen ?

regards

Dave

[Maizefarmer]

Lucky man - klong 20yards away!!!

Nope, so long as the water level in the klong is no more than 4 or 5 meters below the land (or below a position where you can site a pump - even if it means you have to dig out a slightly lower level to keep the pump no higher than about 4meters above the water level), you can buy yourself an old used 3litre diesel pickup engine - (just the engine not the gearbox), build a frame and mount it and a centrifugal pump to the frame.

Typical 3litre diesel pickup engine is going is to give you around 70 reliable horses at 1800 - 2100rpm - just ensure you choose a centrifugal pump that is rated to run at this speed for whatever the engines shaft horsepower output is at this engine rpm.

Engine cost: you should be able to pick up a reliable one for around Baht30 000 at most, and the pump? - you have to options: go scour the Eastern seaboad industrial scrapyards for an old process pump (loads of them lying around the Eastern Seaboard scrap yards), or a new one - Kirloskar have an office on Rama 3 run by a bunch of Indians. They are good pumps and you should be able to get something new from them for anything from Baht 25k - 65k - depending on pressure and flow rate. make sure you choose a pump that is rpm rated for the engine running as close as possible to its torque/hp cross over curve - to get the best efficiency.

Off the top of my head you should be able to pump something around 45 - 50 tons of water per hour at around 4bar - enough to drive a few big impact sprinklers - and to pay the "gofer" to move them round every few hours or so.

Things start getting complicated now, and we could talk about sprinkler layout patterns, sprinkler tip diameters and tubing lengths/diameters, engine choice and best coupling method between the pump and engine, and best rpm to run the engine at under load, choosing a pump rated for most efficient output at the engines most efficient rpm under load ...... blah blah, blah blah - and we can go on all night, but for 10 rai it's my opinion that all things considered (cost of equipment, cost of labour, cost of irrigation tubing ect ect ........) you're going to be best off with something along the lines of the above: a pump and diesel engine, enough movable tubing and 4 - 6 large impact sprinklers chosen for their radius and flow rates that tie in with you land size/dimensions and a practical 6" pvc surface laid tube layout pattern.

If you actualy get this far down the line (i.e. you decide you are going to go ahead) I'd be more than happy to help you get this all setup properly mechanicly, and the efficiency clac's done properly, but for the time being use the above as a guideling and you won;t go far wrong.

[SAP]

Lucky man - klong 20yards away!!!

Nope, so long as the water level in the klong is no more than 4 or 5 meters below the land (or below a position where you can site a pump - even if it means you have to dig out a slightly lower level to keep the pump no higher than about 4meters above the water level), you can buy yourself an old used 3litre diesel pickup engine - (just the engine not the gearbox), build a frame and mount it and a centrifugal pump to the frame.

Typical 3litre diesel pickup engine is going is to give you around 70 reliable horses at 1800 - 2100rpm - just ensure you choose a centrifugal pump that is rated to run at this speed for whatever the engines shaft horsepower output is at this engine rpm.

Engine cost: you should be able to pick up a reliable one for around Baht30 000 at most, and the pump? - you have to options: go scour the Eastern seaboad industrial scrapyards for an old process pump (loads of them lying around the Eastern Seaboard scrap yards), or a new one - Kirloskar have an office on Rama 3 run by a bunch of Indians. They are good pumps and you should be able to get something new from them for anything from Baht 25k - 65k - depending on pressure and flow rate. make sure you choose a pump that is rpm rated for the engine running as close as possible to its torque/hp cross over curve - to get the best efficiency.

Off the top of my head you should be able to pump something around 45 - 50 tons of water per hour at around 4bar - enough to drive a few big impact sprinklers - and to pay the "gofer" to move them round every few hours or so.

Things start getting complicated now, and we could talk about sprinkler layout patterns, sprinkler tip diameters and tubing lengths/diameters, engine choice and best coupling method between the pump and engine, and best rpm to run the engine at under load, choosing a pump rated for most efficient output at the engines most efficient rpm under load ...... blah blah, blah blah - and we can go on all night, but for 10 rai it's my opinion that all things considered (cost of equipment, cost of labour, cost of irrigation tubing ect ect ........) you're going to be best off with something along the lines of the above: a pump and diesel engine, enough movable tubing and 4 - 6 large impact sprinklers chosen for their radius and flow rates that tie in with you land size/dimensions and a practical 6" pvc surface laid tube layout pattern.

If you actualy get this far down the line (i.e. you decide you are going to go ahead) I'd be more than happy to help you get this all setup properly mechanicly, and the efficiency clac's done properly, but for the time being use the above as a guideling and you won;t go far wrong.

Dave D

Is it rice paddy land you are going to use, if so and planting feed corn I would recommend using flood irrigation for the first crop or two. This way you have no capital cost, maintanance of pump and engine or fear of being lost.

What I know of some of the current hybrids

Monsanto

919 low yielding but most reliable hybrid under all conditions

979 strong stalk and disease resistance, good high rainfall area's and cooler mountain climates like Pak Chong, Mae Sot etc

9909 or 9901 one of these is a cheap Indian copy the other is a very high yielding monsanto variety, I can not remember which!!!!I am unsure of its adaptability to different climates etc

Pacific

224 High yielding big ear

Seed Asia

TF 222 High yielding most drought tolerant, performs in poor fertility soil conditions

TF 501 Strong stalk, good high rainfall area's and cooler mountain climates like Pak Chong, Mae Sot etc

Syngenta

Nk48 high yielding, good disease resistance, liked by local farmers, but farmers are often paid less due it has poor grain colour and is not preferred for export market

CP

888 Same like Monsanto 919, old low yielding variety but very reliable.

888 NEW (great marketing here by CP) Have introduced a new hybrid but have kept the old name (would probably be illegal in most countries) It is another high yielding hybrid, I am unsure of its adaptability to different climates etc

There are other good hybrids on the market. I would plant probably two or three different varieties eg

1. High Yielder

2. Drought Tolerant (if have no irrigation)

3. Something strong and reliable

[ETC]

Thats another thing I gave up on years back - Thai made planters: they are indeed hopeless. They meter fertilser badly (one seed can get a tablespoon of fertiliser and then the next 3 or 4 may get nothing ...), they are all useless with depth control from seed to seed and row to row, many don't have press wheels on the back, and those that do seldom press the soil down with any consistancy - and none of them are any god at all if there is the slightest bit of trash on the surface ......... blah blah, blah blah - and I could go on

The problem is a complete 4 row Thai planter costs less than a Kinze row unit.

....using alachlor, metachlor, and atrazine, or mixing them?? - as in buying and mixing yourself: no thanks, to unpleasent to handle, unpleseant to mix, and unpleasent long terms effects for those who handle them. Logistically they add a nother layer of complication as in base form (in the quantities I'd have to purchase them in) they would have to be kept securely, audited and inspected on a seasonal basis - just to much extra hassle for little extra (if any) benefit...

..... importing used row units ... whatever brandname units is something I thought of a I few years back. So I purchased a whole bunch of used Kinze and JD row units myself, built up the tool bars and added chain/cogs ratio'd for Thai row/plant spacings. Still, I could not get the price much lower than a new Thai planter on a row by row basis. I built a 2 row, a 3 row, a 4 row and a 6 row. I struggeled to sell them.

Maizefarmer

Would be very interested in seeing a picture of your 4 row and 6 row planters....I had thought about importing a JD planter myself, but would prefer to keep my equipment purchases in country if I can find good reliable equipment. Please email me if you like...

Might I add, that the posters on this forum should be commended for their valuable input.

Thanks again!

Jim

[Maizefarmer]

Thats another thing I gave up on years back - Thai made planters: they are indeed hopeless. They meter fertilser badly (one seed can get a tablespoon of fertiliser and then the next 3 or 4 may get nothing ...), they are all useless with depth control from seed to seed and row to row, many don't have press wheels on the back, and those that do seldom press the soil down with any consistancy - and none of them are any god at all if there is the slightest bit of trash on the surface ......... blah blah, blah blah - and I could go on

The problem is a complete 4 row Thai planter costs less than a Kinze row unit.

....using alachlor, metachlor, and atrazine, or mixing them?? - as in buying and mixing yourself: no thanks, to unpleasent to handle, unpleseant to mix, and unpleasent long terms effects for those who handle them. Logistically they add a nother layer of complication as in base form (in the quantities I'd have to purchase them in) they would have to be kept securely, audited and inspected on a seasonal basis - just to much extra hassle for little extra (if any) benefit...

..... importing used row units ... whatever brandname units is something I thought of a I few years back. So I purchased a whole bunch of used Kinze and JD row units myself, built up the tool bars and added chain/cogs ratio'd for Thai row/plant spacings. Still, I could not get the price much lower than a new Thai planter on a row by row basis. I built a 2 row, a 3 row, a 4 row and a 6 row. I struggeled to sell them.

Maizefarmer

Would be very interested in seeing a picture of your 4 row and 6 row planters....I had thought about importing a JD planter myself, but would prefer to keep my equipment purchases in country if I can find good reliable equipment. Please email me if you like...

Might I add, that the posters on this forum should be commended for their valuable input.

Thanks again!

Jim

I use Kinze planters - I have 3 alltogether - below is a photo of the middle sized one (12 row folded over) - i have one smaller and one larger, with an air seeder attachment on.

Below are some pictures showing the differance in germination quality achieved with a good quality precision planter (e.g. Kinze type) which space's the seeds properly, ensures each is at the same depth and that each has the soil compressed down by the same amount versus a typical Thai planter, most of which do not spce accurately, do not coulter to the same depth and do not press the soil down evenly from row to row and seed to seed. the result is uneven germination and uneven growth rates leading to poor yeilds.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[jopham]

Hi Maizefarmer

I did read in another thread that you have also live stock.

My question is

Do you feed your live stock any of your corn or is your corn grown only for human consuption?

Thanks jopham

[Maizefarmer]

Hi Maizefarmer

I did read in another thread that you have also live stock.

My question is

Do you feed your live stock any of your corn or is your corn grown only for human consuption?

Thanks jopham

No, everything I grow is to feed cattle.

[jopham]

Hi Maizefarmer

Thanks for your quick reply

The corn you grow is it same as corn for human consumption or is it strain especilly for cattle?

Thank Jopham

[Maizefarmer]

When you say human consumption - do you mean as in sweetcorn, or as in maize seed that is ground in a mill for processing?

Its the same stuff as the latter - processed maize as used in foodstuffs for human consumption is always a mix of cultivars and hybrids depending on the farm it came from. The only differance as far as cattle feed goes is that farmers tend to harvest earlier because we use the whole plant for feeding livestock - not just the seed.

[Pierrot]

Actually, when you're talking of "human consumption" it reminds me of my dad when he saw for the first time corn on the table (we are European, not American).

I just can't forget his words : "What's that, maize is for chicken !... "

[jopham]

Hi Maizefarmer

Yes sweetcorn that is what I was thinking as human consumption.

Maizefarmer, how many rai of maize would it take to feed 1 cow per year and what else would you need to feed it and how many times a year can you harvest if you irregate.

Thanks jopham

[Maizefarmer]

I've written this all up a couple years back - if you do a search indexing with "Maizefarmer" and "forage" and "silage" you'll get all the detailed notes I have posted on the forum in reply to simialr questions over the years.

In short, I use the whole plant as both a a fresh feed (mixed with forage grass) in the wet season and as a silage feed in the dry season. You cannot support a cow on whole corn plant alone - well, I suppose you could but you'll run into nutritional problems and deficiencies some point down the line - its best mixed in with other feeds.

Lets rephrase that question: how much maize is needed is to support a cow (as part of a mixed feed) per year - and the answer would be around 1 rai fresh and about 2 rai ensiled.

I grow 2 crops every year. If I get the logistics right and the weather and all other factors fall into place I can do that without irrigation. With irrigation I try to squeeze a 3rd crop out of the land - if things are going well, but its not easy to plan when you are rotating forage grasses and also needing to let the land lie fallow about every 3rd year.

[farmerjo]

I've written this all up a couple years back - if you do a search indexing with "Maizefarmer" and "forage" and "silage" you'll get all the detailed notes I have posted on the forum in reply to simialr questions over the years.

In short, I use the whole plant as both a a fresh feed (mixed with forage grass) in the wet season and as a silage feed in the dry season. You cannot support a cow on whole corn plant alone - well, I suppose you could but you'll run into nutritional problems and deficiencies some point down the line - its best mixed in with other feeds.

Lets rephrase that question: how much maize is needed is to support a cow (as part of a mixed feed) per year - and the answer would be around 1 rai fresh and about 2 rai ensiled.

I grow 2 crops every year. If I get the logistics right and the weather and all other factors fall into place I can do that without irrigation. With irrigation I try to squeeze a 3rd crop out of the land - if things are going well, but its not easy to plan when you are rotating forage grasses and also needing to let the land lie fallow about every 3rd year.

Hi maizefarmer,

Interested to know for harvesting of corn do you do by hand or machine,i am looking for three point linkage and have only seen from aet and requires 60 hp to drive it,i only have 22 hp,do you know of any smaller tpl harvesters.I am currently growing sugar but with 3 year contracts and 3 month harvest am looking to all mechanical for convenience.

farmerjo

[Maizefarmer]

I have a 2nd hand forage harvester and front 3pt hitch mountable Kemper.

How many rai are you harvesting?

What do you need to harvest?

How often?

Are you bailing?

For sugar or maize?

Yes - they are big time savers, but they are complicated machines which need regular servcing and have to be carefully chosen if you want to get the economics of running them right.

[importford]

I have a 2nd hand forage harvester and front 3pt hitch mountable Kemper.

How many rai are you harvesting?

What do you need to harvest?

How often?

Are you bailing?

For sugar or maize?

Yes - they are big time savers, but they are complicated machines which need regular servcing and have to be carefully chosen if you want to get the economics of running them right.

very interesting.

Could you post pictures of these 2 machines, especially the 2nd hand forage harvester.

[Maizefarmer]

I posted a picture of the one of them on the forum about 6 - 8months back (god only knows how to find it now) - can do again but must wait till I get back to Thailand in about fortnights time (in Europe at the moment).

[farmerjo]

I posted a picture of the one of them on the forum about 6 - 8months back (god only knows how to find it now) - can do again but must wait till I get back to Thailand in about fortnights time (in Europe at the moment).

Hi maizefarmer,

I have 90 rai with about 75 arable,at the moment have 50 rai into sugar the rest new land which should be cleared fully in a couple of months.

So next season will cut back to 40 rai sugar and try to do 35 rai maize (3crops for the year).I have an abundance of water.

The harvester would be for the maize and if successful would look at going all maize the following season.Its not about economics so much but the ability to harvest when i want and keep labour to a minimum.

Machinery i have includes,

kubota 22 hp fwa

3.5mtr boomspay

3 row maize planter

post hole digger

tpl 3 inch waterpump

7 disc cultitrash

3 disc plough

slasher

400mtr 2 inch poly pipe and jumbo sprinkler (covers 2 rai )

I service my own gear as i am a fitter by trade.

look forward to the pictures.

Farmerjo

[Maizefarmer]

Well, you've got the gear - no prob;s there, though I'm not to sure you're going to be able to irrigate efficiently through 400m of 2" tubing off a 3" pump (outlet I presume that is?). Dont get me wrong - it will irrigate, just that I'm not sure it will be efficient.- your big cost is going to be fuel so anything done to reduce that expense will go towards maintiang a helathy margin. Between fertliser and diesel fuel for every Baht 500'thou spent 18 months ago I am now spending between Baht780 - 820'thou!!. (its up 40% plus in less than 2 years!)

You're best pumping option is always 3phase AC (in Thailand at least), failing that an old pickup diesel engine (2,5l - 3litre fine) - and they need a good 5" plus on the centrifugal outlet (running at 4bar or more) before the figures (costs) start to fall into place and make if justifiable - and that farmerjo, ain't going to work on 2" tubing (at leats 3" better still still 3,5 or 4"). The extra inch diameter more or less doubles the flow rate.

Thats the weak point, other than that the rest of your equip is fine.

Just keep in mind forage harvesters are pricy machines (even used) - they can't be contain'ed so they have to come into Thailand "ro-ro" - and ro-ro on a 3 or 4 row forage harvester from where ever to Thailand aint going to be cheap. I decent relaible used one from Australia or Europe going to set you back Baht 1,5mill plus

I'm not sure 35 rai justifies the cost of buying one (at least not a self propelled one), though that said, once news gets round that the local farang has a forage harvester, you're going to have a never ending line of local livestock keepers wanting you to forage their maize - so that would probably make it for it. If you do purchase make sure it has a corn cracker and adjustable knives (so you can use it on different crops at different lengths).

By all means give it a go.

[farmerjo]

Well, you've got the gear - no prob;s there, though I'm not to sure you're going to be able to irrigate efficiently through 400m of 2" tubing off a 3" pump (outlet I presume that is?). Dont get me wrong - it will irrigate, just that I'm not sure it will be efficient.- your big cost is going to be fuel so anything done to reduce that expense will go towards maintiang a helathy margin. Between fertliser and diesel fuel for every Baht 500'thou spent 18 months ago I am now spending between Baht780 - 820'thou!!. (its up 40% plus in less than 2 years!)

You're best pumping option is always 3phase AC (in Thailand at least), failing that an old pickup diesel engine (2,5l - 3litre fine) - and they need a good 5" plus on the centrifugal outlet (running at 4bar or more) before the figures (costs) start to fall into place and make if justifiable - and that farmerjo, ain't going to work on 2" tubing (at leats 3" better still still 3,5 or 4"). The extra inch diameter more or less doubles the flow rate.

Thats the weak point, other than that the rest of your equip is fine.

Just keep in mind forage harvesters are pricy machines (even used) - they can't be contain'ed so they have to come into Thailand "ro-ro" - and ro-ro on a 3 or 4 row forage harvester from where ever to Thailand aint going to be cheap. I decent relaible used one from Australia or Europe going to set you back Baht 1,5mill plus

I'm not sure 35 rai justifies the cost of buying one (at least not a self propelled one), though that said, once news gets round that the local farang has a forage harvester, you're going to have a never ending line of local livestock keepers wanting you to forage their maize - so that would probably make it for it. If you do purchase make sure it has a corn cracker and adjustable knives (so you can use it on different crops at different lengths).

By all means give it a go.

Hi maizefarmer,

Thanks for the advice,have some work to do on irrigation side of things.

The reason i am looking for a mechanical harvester is because i have tried cows,soya beans,maize and sugar.Everytime i make a modest profit but the workers fare better and they dont have to worry about outlay up front and required cashflow.Also the wife is an expensive supervisor when it comes to transporting people back and forth and cooking for large numbers of people.

Probably cant justify a self propelled model but will continue to look for tpl (pto) harvester even if have to upgrade tractor hp.

Thanks farmerjo

[Maizefarmer]

I'll post up details of pto driven harvesters for you in a day or so - though I think you should give considerations to invetsing in a Ford 6610 or similar - you really best off with around 75/80hp at least to be able to effectively handle all the crop options you have listed - but, there are a couple options availbe for smaller tractors.

[farmerjo]

That would be great.

Will look at a ford,just waiting for backhoe to take out tree stumps and use contracter for initial cropping on new land so when get tractor it will be looked after!!!

I am one for big hp after returning from aus last year after operating my friends new stx 450 case ih with 40 ft flexicoil bar and 12 ton air cart for seeding.

But in thailand how do you compare 6610 no working hours on clock,no warranty,new coat of paint with say a 45 hp kubota new at say both 600000 baht.???

The mind says one thing and the wallet says another.

[Maizefarmer]

STX 450!!!!!!!!!! - hel_l - none of them in Thailand - the biggest tractors in the country are those run by the mills (sugar mills) around 180/190hp max. Then you have the occassional idiot (like myself) who has a 260hp machine.

No question about it - the 6610 - even if its a basket case.

You can fix it up over time - so long as as the engine is running, has no cracks, has 4WD is not overheating, can change gears and the hydraulics are working. never mind the lack of hours (or acuracy thereof)- none of them are accurate in Thailand. Some are pushing 10 - 15 thousand hours. They're durable machines with close to unbreakable drivetrains and the parts support is 2nd to none.

Its a no-brainer that one - the 6610..... and if its power you want then turbo it.

A turbo'd 6610, so long as you've rebuilt the engine with good quality Kolbenshmidt pistons, new liners, bearings in good nick and the cooling working well, can go up to around 160hp comfortably. Throw a 350 - 450kg concreate block for over the front axle and you'll have a machine capable of handling all the tasks it could reasonably be called upon to do in Thailand. Remember - the issue of power (meaning hp) is grossly misunderstood: tractors are all about torque - the power (hp) figure is more acurately, in my opinion, a gauge not so much of the work the tractor can/will do, but the rate at which that work will be done. Nice to have STX 450 - but pointless unless you have a 5 000 - 10 000acre farm - any case you won't find a field big enough in Thailand to handle a 6 ton air cart, let alone a 12 ton!

6610 - period.