Suitable Piping For Water

[Tyke]

Hi,

My Thai builder has just installed water pipes running from my bathroom along the inside of the false ceiling to my balcony where I need a tap to use for watering plants etc. He has used some green corrugated (plastic) tubing and says it is highly suitable and very expensive and will definitely be approved by the condo management.

I can't describe the pipe much more except it is green and courrugated along the outside and about 2 cm in diameter. My neighbour told me that the only suitable piping is metal due to the pressure on the cold water supply that could eventually rupture any plastic pipe. But I heard that metal pipe can corrode if put into concrete or plaster (part of my pipe is put into concrete post on my condo before it reaches the tap).

I need to know if the plastic piping described is, indeed suitable, not looking for alternative solutions. I also wonder if the pipe should run on the inside of the false ceiling where electrical wiring for the lights is also present even if it is protected.

Any experts around for advice?

[Rimmer]

Hi,

My Thai builder has just installed water pipes running from my bathroom along the inside of the false ceiling to my balcony where I need a tap to use for watering plants etc. He has used some green corrugated (plastic) tubing and says it is highly suitable and very expensive and will definitely be approved by the condo management.

I can't describe the pipe much more except it is green and courrugated along the outside and about 2 cm in diameter. My neighbour told me that the only suitable piping is metal due to the pressure on the cold water supply that could eventually rupture any plastic pipe. But I heard that metal pipe can corrode if put into concrete or plaster (part of my pipe is put into concrete post on my condo before it reaches the tap).

I need to know if the plastic piping described is, indeed suitable, not looking for alternative solutions. I also wonder if the pipe should run on the inside of the false ceiling where electrical wiring for the lights is also present even if it is protected.

Any experts around for advice?

I used to have some green corrugated plastic pipe once but it was called 'hose pipe' I've never actually seen another sort. Is it flexible? What do the elbows and fittings look like?

Water pipes here are typically blue plastic and electrical conduit is typically yellow plastic. Water pipes and waste water pipes are often run in suspended ceilings even if it's not good practice. Standard blue plastic water pipe is way strong enough to withstand anything your water pump may put out unless you have a very powerful pump. It's usually the glued joints and elbows that weep or blow where the pipe has not been cleaned thoroughly before the glue was applied.

[Tyke]

Hi,

My Thai builder has just installed water pipes running from my bathroom along the inside of the false ceiling to my balcony where I need a tap to use for watering plants etc. He has used some green corrugated (plastic) tubing and says it is highly suitable and very expensive and will definitely be approved by the condo management.

I can't describe the pipe much more except it is green and courrugated along the outside and about 2 cm in diameter. My neighbour told me that the only suitable piping is metal due to the pressure on the cold water supply that could eventually rupture any plastic pipe. But I heard that metal pipe can corrode if put into concrete or plaster (part of my pipe is put into concrete post on my condo before it reaches the tap).

I need to know if the plastic piping described is, indeed suitable, not looking for alternative solutions. I also wonder if the pipe should run on the inside of the false ceiling where electrical wiring for the lights is also present even if it is protected.

Any experts around for advice?

I used to have some green corrugated plastic pipe once but it was called 'hose pipe' I've never actually seen another sort. Is it flexible? What do the elbows and fittings look like?

Water pipes here are typically blue plastic and electrical conduit is typically yellow plastic. Water pipes and waste water pipes are often run in suspended ceilings even if it's not good practice. Standard blue plastic water pipe is way strong enough to withstand anything your water pump may put out unless you have a very powerful pump. It's usually the glued joints and elbows that weep or blow where the pipe has not been cleaned thoroughly before the glue was applied.

Hi thanks for this. I know about the blue and yellow plastic pipes but the one my builder uses is not the same. The green piping is about 2 -3 cm in diameter and is attached to the metal plug where the tap will eventually be put on the balcony, so it will do metal to plastic connections. I don't remember but the wall of the green plastic is maybe 2-3 mm in thickness and not flexible. It has corrugations along the length of the tube. My builder gave it a specific name but I don't rememebr what it was - I thought the description would have been enough for someone who knows these things. I don't have a water pump as the water is gravity fed.

[dotcom]

Suggest you talk with building maintaince dept to see if they approve it.

Edited July 16, 2008 by dotcom

[Beardog]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

[Tyke]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

Beardog,

the green piping you mean is hose pipe - I have that for watering my plants. The stuff I mean is not the same - it is much stronger, thicker and less flexible - definitely not hose piping which is very flexible and weak. Not the same sorry.

[nonthaburial]

I built a house in MNL and took the advice of an expert (????) and used metal piping, sad to say it lasted only 3-4 years before complete failure through corrossion. Had to replace the whole lot at great expense with the above mentioned blue plastic piping. Solved the problem and if i remember right my pump was set to 30 psi.

[Ratsima]

Is the pipe perhaps corrugated HDPE (high density polyethylene)?

This kind of pipe is not usually used for water supply pipe. Most often it is used for drainage or to protect wires or cabling. But, HDPE is an acceptable material for domestic water supply.

From Wiki: "HDPE is used in products and packaging such as milk jugs, detergent bottles, margarine tubs, garbage containers and water pipes."

[PhilHarries]

I built a house in MNL and took the advice of an expert (????) and used metal piping, sad to say it lasted only 3-4 years before complete failure through corrossion. Had to replace the whole lot at great expense with the above mentioned blue plastic piping. Solved the problem and if i remember right my pump was set to 30 psi.

Metal piping corroded after 3-4 years? Was it copper or steel? Copper piping is relatively expensive but should last forever in domestic water service. Even with steel, provided it is coated, it should last longer than that. Back in the 60's my parents had central heating installed and, due to the high price of copper, electroplated steel was used. Apart from a short length out of the header/expansion tank it suffered no corrosion problems for over 20 years.

The blue plastic piping, according to a correction to one of my earlier posts, is rated at something like 100psig (6.9 barg) but as has been stated this is largely dependant on the quality of the glued joints.

Is the pipe perhaps corrugated HDPE (high density polyethylene)?

This kind of pipe is not usually used for water supply pipe. Most often it is used for drainage or to protect wires or cabling. But, HDPE is an acceptable material for domestic water supply.

From Wiki: "HDPE is used in products and packaging such as milk jugs, detergent bottles, margarine tubs, garbage containers and water pipes."

I'd be dubious using this kind of pipe in a domestic water system. Sediment and sludge can accumulate in the corrugations and all sorts of microanimalorganisations can swarm and multiply especially in a branch that maybe doesn't get the same regular use as a supply to the bathroom. You might find, especially if the apartment isn't provided with a backflow preventer, this type of piping is not approved for domestic use.

[Ratsima]

Metal piping corroded after 3-4 years? Was it copper or steel? Copper piping is relatively expensive but should last forever in domestic water service.

I had copper pipe in a house in the tropics where the water was quite alkaline. The pipe corroded through in about ten years. I replaced it with CPVC.

I'd be dubious using this kind of pipe [corrugated HDPE] in a domestic water system.

I agree that corrugated pipe should not be used for domestic water supply. I was only noting that HDPE can be used for water supply, along with various other metal and plastic pipe. In looking around, though, I did see one brand of corrugated HDPE that is smooth on the inside. I'm not sure how they do that, but they claimed it was suitable for domestic water supply.

[nonthaburial]

The main reasons for my house failures was that the water supply was changed from normal piped water to deep well water which had a high salt content

[thatguy]

ratsima,

you found cpvc in Thailand?

[Tyke]

Is the pipe perhaps corrugated HDPE (high density polyethylene)?

This kind of pipe is not usually used for water supply pipe. Most often it is used for drainage or to protect wires or cabling. But, HDPE is an acceptable material for domestic water supply.

From Wiki: "HDPE is used in products and packaging such as milk jugs, detergent bottles, margarine tubs, garbage containers and water pipes."

Hi,

definitely not this - the corrugations on mine are parallel to the length of the tubing and on the outside only and the colour is more bluish green not as green as this and definitely not the same as the blue water piping I have seen. Sorry for being so vague but i will try to get the name from my builder and some kind of pic when i go to my condo next week. Definitely not what is usually used as hose piping.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Tyke

[Merino]

The green pipe is probably PP-R and is approved for use in Thailand. The fittings are fusion welded so leaks are virtually impossible. In any case the manufacturers name and description should be stamped on the pipe.

Is the pipe perhaps corrugated HDPE (high density polyethylene)?

This kind of pipe is not usually used for water supply pipe. Most often it is used for drainage or to protect wires or cabling. But, HDPE is an acceptable material for domestic water supply.

From Wiki: "HDPE is used in products and packaging such as milk jugs, detergent bottles, margarine tubs, garbage containers and water pipes."

Hi,

definitely not this - the corrugations on mine are parallel to the length of the tubing and on the outside only and the colour is more bluish green not as green as this and definitely not the same as the blue water piping I have seen. Sorry for being so vague but i will try to get the name from my builder and some kind of pic when i go to my condo next week. Definitely not what is usually used as hose piping.

[petertucker48]

Can recommend metal piping with internal plastic lining for hot water (from Home Pro) and blue foe all cold water connections.

Works very well.

The green pipe is probably PP-R and is approved for use in Thailand. The fittings are fusion welded so leaks are virtually impossible. In any case the manufacturers name and description should be stamped on the pipe.

Is the pipe perhaps corrugated HDPE (high density polyethylene)?

This kind of pipe is not usually used for water supply pipe. Most often it is used for drainage or to protect wires or cabling. But, HDPE is an acceptable material for domestic water supply.

From Wiki: "HDPE is used in products and packaging such as milk jugs, detergent bottles, margarine tubs, garbage containers and water pipes."

Hi,

definitely not this - the corrugations on mine are parallel to the length of the tubing and on the outside only and the colour is more bluish green not as green as this and definitely not the same as the blue water piping I have seen. Sorry for being so vague but i will try to get the name from my builder and some kind of pic when i go to my condo next week. Definitely not what is usually used as hose piping.

[Gary A]

A friend of mine built a house about fifteen years ago. He didn't trust the plastic pipe and insisted on galvanized pipe. The quality of the galvanized pipe was pathetic. He ended up with black iron pipe. He used plastic for his outbuildings. Recently much of the black pipe is corroded through and he is replacing it with plastic. The plastic pipe in the outbuildings is still in good condition. Locally in our area there are two grades of plastic pipe available. The economy grade is much cheaper and the wall is much thinner. The better grade will last much longer.

[Beardog]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

Beardog,

the green piping you mean is hose pipe - I have that for watering my plants. The stuff I mean is not the same - it is much stronger, thicker and less flexible - definitely not hose piping which is very flexible and weak. Not the same sorry.

I think you are correct. I saw the pipe in gardening.dept. Do you have a picture of the pipe?

[longball53098]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

Beardog,

the green piping you mean is hose pipe - I have that for watering my plants. The stuff I mean is not the same - it is much stronger, thicker and less flexible - definitely not hose piping which is very flexible and weak. Not the same sorry.

I think you are correct. I saw the pipe in gardening.dept. Do you have a picture of the pipe?

I know there is a "green" colorerd piping suitable for the temp and pressure of hot water use.

I have seen it used in building in Pattaya and here in Banchang.

I would think any of the suppliers would carry it or order it.

I show a photo of a house build that uses the pipe for all the hot water needs. They ran it all over a two stroy build from a central supply tank. The project used it in all the houses for central hot water.

I also show a link to a company here in LOS that specializes in a newer type of piping.

http://siamgpi.com/solarpower/wavin.html

The comment about "never " in the ceiling? Can I ask how you would plumb a bathroom or other need on a second or third floor? The pipe needs to be in the ceiling somewhere. If its in the floor of one area in the case of a second story then the pipes are in the ceiling of the first floor(ground) floor. If that were true then what would they do in high rise buildings? As long as the pipes are installed with some care it can be done.

[Tyke]

Hi,

thanks for all your suggestions but many of them were off the mark regarding the type of tubing. Anyway I got a pic of the end of the piping where it connects to a metal outlet (attached). That's all that is exposed - it is green in colour with corrugations running along the length of the tube on the outside only and it is not flexible. My builder has used it for cold water to run from my condo bathroom along the ceiling void and then down a column on the balcony to this outlet - it is to water my balcony plants. He says it is 'no problem' to do this and that the pipes cannot burst. He is certain the condo management will approve it and knows he won't get paid until it is passed. The connection to the metal looks like a heat seal to me, like one of the posters said, but don't know how the sections are connected.

Get your heads round that lads!

[Rimmer]

Hi,

thanks for all your suggestions but many of them were off the mark regarding the type of tubing. Anyway I got a pic of the end of the piping where it connects to a metal outlet (attached). That's all that is exposed - it is green in colour with corrugations running along the length of the tube on the outside only and it is not flexible. My builder has used it for cold water to run from my condo bathroom along the ceiling void and then down a column on the balcony to this outlet - it is to water my balcony plants. He says it is 'no problem' to do this and that the pipes cannot burst. He is certain the condo management will approve it and knows he won't get paid until it is passed. The connection to the metal looks like a heat seal to me, like one of the posters said, but don't know how the sections are connected.

Get your heads round that lads!

Pipes don't burst!! The fittings leak at the joints, how has he gone around corners if the pipe is not flexible?

I've never seen anything like this. But that don't mean diddly squat. BTW Hope that plug is tight and the thread wrapped in plumbers tape because it will leak like a sieve when it gets pressure on it.

[Rimmer]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

Beardog,

the green piping you mean is hose pipe - I have that for watering my plants. The stuff I mean is not the same - it is much stronger, thicker and less flexible - definitely not hose piping which is very flexible and weak. Not the same sorry.

I think you are correct. I saw the pipe in gardening.dept. Do you have a picture of the pipe?

I know there is a "green" colorerd piping suitable for the temp and pressure of hot water use.

I have seen it used in building in Pattaya and here in Banchang.

I would think any of the suppliers would carry it or order it.

I show a photo of a house build that uses the pipe for all the hot water needs. They ran it all over a two stroy build from a central supply tank. The project used it in all the houses for central hot water.

I also show a link to a company here in LOS that specializes in a newer type of piping.

http://siamgpi.com/solarpower/wavin.html

The comment about "never " in the ceiling? Can I ask how you would plumb a bathroom or other need on a second or third floor? The pipe needs to be in the ceiling somewhere. If its in the floor of one area in the case of a second story then the pipes are in the ceiling of the first floor(ground) floor. If that were true then what would they do in high rise buildings? As long as the pipes are installed with some care it can be done.

"Installed with care" I like it

Pressured pipes are run up walls and across the top of concrete floors that are then screeded over with 5cm of concrete, Grey water pipes are often found in ceilings but they typically do not have pressure.

As already stated it is not good practice to put pressured pipes in a ceiling.

[Tyke]

Pipes don't burst!! The fittings leak at the joints, how has he gone around corners if the pipe is not flexible?

I've never seen anything like this. But that don't mean diddly squat. BTW Hope that plug is tight and the thread wrapped in plumbers tape because it will leak like a sieve when it gets pressure on it.

I guess he has joined sections together as you do with long lengths of pipe probably by heat sealing. And as merino said "The green pipe is probably PP-R and is approved for use in Thailand. The fittings are fusion welded so leaks are virtually impossible".

I might add that I've looked in several hardware shops and they don't have this piping - only the usual blue or grey types. I guess it is fairly specialised - my builder says it is 'very expensive". He gave me the name in Thai which is 4 หุน. This is a size of pipe in Thai apparently, rather than the make or type.

[Beardog]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

Beardog,

the green piping you mean is hose pipe - I have that for watering my plants. The stuff I mean is not the same - it is much stronger, thicker and less flexible - definitely not hose piping which is very flexible and weak. Not the same sorry.

I think you are correct. I saw the pipe in gardening.dept. Do you have a picture of the pipe?

I know there is a "green" colorerd piping suitable for the temp and pressure of hot water use.

I have seen it used in building in Pattaya and here in Banchang.

I would think any of the suppliers would carry it or order it.

I show a photo of a house build that uses the pipe for all the hot water needs. They ran it all over a two stroy build from a central supply tank. The project used it in all the houses for central hot water.

I also show a link to a company here in LOS that specializes in a newer type of piping.

http://siamgpi.com/solarpower/wavin.html

The comment about "never " in the ceiling? Can I ask how you would plumb a bathroom or other need on a second or third floor? The pipe needs to be in the ceiling somewhere. If its in the floor of one area in the case of a second story then the pipes are in the ceiling of the first floor(ground) floor. If that were true then what would they do in high rise buildings? As long as the pipes are installed with some care it can be done.

"Installed with care" I like it

Pressured pipes are run up walls and across the top of concrete floors that are then screeded over with 5cm of concrete, Grey water pipes are often found in ceilings but they typically do not have pressure.

As already stated it is not good practice to put pressured pipes in a ceiling.

I think Rimmer has answered the question you asked longball. If you put the pipes either in the wall all the way going up the condo or on the outside if it were to develop a leak it wont drop all your sheet rock when it gets wet. I rented an apt. in Hawaii & some Nimrod ran all the water pipes(galvanized) in the cieling . when the joints started seeping & really started leaking it took out 4 sheets of gypsum board. in addition to this Einstien neatly wrapped the electrical wiring around the pipes.

I guess he figured it would make a better ground that way .

I had a sparky rework the electrics-landlord got the bill I got a months free rent & had to hang the 4 lids.(sheetrock) i would have rather been smoking the 4 lids! Long story short murphys law "if something can go wrong IT WILL.

Keep it simple & take your shower in the shower instead of finding out later someone either forgot the glue(blue pvc pipes or joints not tight ,stripped , inadequate pipe tape, or copper not sweated properly)

[Beardog]

I think Rimmer hit the nail on the head.

Usually , you never put water piping in the ceiling. if a pipe leaks or something bursts you are in for a lot of extra work.

The standard PVC blue pipes you see are Thailand's norm & can withstand a heck of a lot of pressure (if they are glued or glued properly) The only time I have seen PVC fail is when the joints were not glued at all or installed improperly (bent around a drain.

They can be painted to the color of the condo. I have seen the green piping you have described, but always thought it was more irrigation equipment. I have seen the piping in the garden depts. at hardware stores.

I hope you pipes hang in there as the only time even in commercial building you put water overhead is for the emergency sprinkler system.

Beardog,

the green piping you mean is hose pipe - I have that for watering my plants. The stuff I mean is not the same - it is much stronger, thicker and less flexible - definitely not hose piping which is very flexible and weak. Not the same sorry.

I think you are correct. I saw the pipe in gardening.dept. Do you have a picture of the pipe?

I know there is a "green" colorerd piping suitable for the temp and pressure of hot water use.

I have seen it used in building in Pattaya and here in Banchang.

I would think any of the suppliers would carry it or order it.

I show a photo of a house build that uses the pipe for all the hot water needs. They ran it all over a two stroy build from a central supply tank. The project used it in all the houses for central hot water.

I also show a link to a company here in LOS that specializes in a newer type of piping.

http://siamgpi.com/solarpower/wavin.html

The comment about "never " in the ceiling? Can I ask how you would plumb a bathroom or other need on a second or third floor? The pipe needs to be in the ceiling somewhere. If its in the floor of one area in the case of a second story then the pipes are in the ceiling of the first floor(ground) floor. If that were true then what would they do in high rise buildings? As long as the pipes are installed with some care it can be done.

I worked in San Diego & Palm springs in the U.S. doing high rise construction & commercial. the pipes were always hogged out & installed the inside walls going up vertically. Even with steel type building the pipe was inside the walls all the way up & clamped in with sound dampeners around the piping. In the condos I worked at the plastic snap in type piping(wonderful & easy to install & came out in the eighty's) (Good link thats similar to what we used) is put into the wall through the hogged out hole going up vertically.We would run extra lines & tie them in the wall not the ceiling.In wood construction you can't put the pipes in the ceiling because under fire codes you are not allowed to alter the fire blocks . The only pipe that should be in a roof or top area to the best of my knowledge is an emergency sprinkler system in case of a fire & even at that the pipes are on the outside of the ceiling.

The green pipe I have seen used for commercial sprinkler systems & can handle pressure well as well as last quite a long time if fitted properly. most of my experience is in wood & steel , but it would be the same principal for any building application.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Beardog

[longball53098]

It seems the general consensus is not to run any water pipes under pressure in a ceiling space. It also seems that all agree the pipes themselves do not burst (unless defective) but the joints of fittings fail for various reasons. It would also appear your waterman used some pipe other than the typical blue PVC for some reason.

Your original question:

I need to know if the plastic piping described is, indeed suitable, not looking for alternative solutions. I also wonder if the pipe should run on the inside of the false ceiling where electrical wiring for the lights is also present even if it is protected.

You have not provided any good pictures or info related to this "green" pipe the waterman installed so next to impossible for all the TV experts to advise.

As to the should the pipe run in the false ceiling area?

The answer would appear to be generally no unless some things were done to almost guarantee no leaks (can that be done?)

The main crux of the question is that the pipe should not be in the ceiling spaces but I would bet there is no "easy" or "cheap" way to get a pipe from your bathroom to the balcony.

Maybe a suggestion of running the pipe along the base of a wall is a suitable alternative? The pipe could be covered in some way?