Interesting Letter Regarding Drug Crime In Pattaya

[Hobgoblin]

Marijuana - no marijuana. All that needs to happen is a Thai to *say* you did something illegal, and you will be arrested and thrown in jail. The police will make no effort to verify an alibi (even ones as good as you weren't even in the COUNTRY at the time). The legal system of Thailand is a complete and utter joke, and it's a disgrace to this country.

[onzestan]

my friend, it is you who need to do the homework before you start to lecture a forward thinker and take the high ground, hence, once again, an example of the mistakes of this sort of thingl. Maybe you should just chill....

people making totaly wrong claims and trying to use them as proof- the world over this happens sadly

- what you say has not, and never will be "proven". Yes, some people say this- some not. Show me your "proof",

you can,t , it does,nt exist- I,ll show you the counter claims. Lots of them in fact. Not to mention all the other evidence, like people who smoke all theirs lives, and are happy doing so.They don,t seem to be too posioned by " 20 times, are you sure its 2, not 21 or 21/12 or 192/,do you know how stupid that sounds? more poisonous

which hat was 20 times more pulled out of....?

This existing law its both stupid, and unenforceable. And so hypocritical-

OK forward thinker, you keep using the illicit drugs, but pardon me for being a backward old fart, and choosing to stay away from everything illegal.

And one more thing there's plenty of substantiated researches that claim the use of soft drugs leads to hard drugs, but of course that's not what forward thinkers like to hear.

The law is what it is, even if YOU think it's stupid

Go ahead break the law if you so wish, see if I care when you get caught. I'm not PC enough to give a dam-n.

cheers

onzestan

[apple69]

Weed is a drug (I don't buy into that it's natural man... it comes from the earth man) and not one you want to do every moment of every day... but on those rare occasion when you want to kick back I see no harm to partake. That said, in London cannabis is so wide spread and by so many accepted (walk down many a street and you'll get a wiff of that sticky sweet smell). However when you're in a foreign land (especially one so infamous for it's stance on drugs!) why risk it?? Cannabis is a nice way to relax now and then but... to take the chance? It's really not that good!

Kinda strange though, I was talking to a Thai friend of mine the other day. She's a self confessed stonner and likes nothing more. She also said that about 20 years back it was very legal... in fact some stalls used to sprinkle it in their noodles to make you eat more! I don't know if that was bullshit but... it kinda makes sense )

[CRUNCHER]

This existing law its both stupid, and unenforceable. And so hypocritical-

That's not the point (although it seems in this case it was enforced). If it is illegal and you get caught don't winge. If you can't do the time; don't do the crime.

[Tolley]

Weed is a drug (I don't buy into that it's natural man... it comes from the earth man) and not one you want to do every moment of every day... but on those rare occasion when you want to kick back I see no harm to partake. That said, in London cannabis is so wide spread and by so many accepted (walk down many a street and you'll get a wiff of that sticky sweet smell). However when you're in a foreign land (especially one so infamous for it's stance on drugs!) why risk it?? Cannabis is a nice way to relax now and then but... to take the chance? It's really not that good!

Kinda strange though, I was talking to a Thai friend of mine the other day. She's a self confessed stonner and likes nothing more. She also said that about 20 years back it was very legal... in fact some stalls used to sprinkle it in their noodles to make you eat more! I don't know if that was bullshit but... it kinda makes sense )

It wasn't legal 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

I first came to Thailand in 1979 and it wasn't legal then and people were going to gaol in those days too for drug crimes.

[kedawi]

There is virtually no difference ....... hemp and marijuana are the same genus....its just the way you grow it. did you know it is related to the hop plant?

Edited August 19, 2008 by kedawi

[private eye]

this is yet another example of the low lifes that come to thailand . we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya . go else where .

[Theyreallrubbish]

Weed is a drug (I don't buy into that it's natural man... it comes from the earth man) and not one you want to do every moment of every day... but on those rare occasion when you want to kick back I see no harm to partake. That said, in London cannabis is so wide spread and by so many accepted (walk down many a street and you'll get a wiff of that sticky sweet smell). However when you're in a foreign land (especially one so infamous for it's stance on drugs!) why risk it?? Cannabis is a nice way to relax now and then but... to take the chance? It's really not that good!

Kinda strange though, I was talking to a Thai friend of mine the other day. She's a self confessed stonner and likes nothing more. She also said that about 20 years back it was very legal... in fact some stalls used to sprinkle it in their noodles to make you eat more! I don't know if that was bullshit but... it kinda makes sense )

It wasn't legal 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

I first came to Thailand in 1979 and it wasn't legal then and people were going to gaol in those days too for drug crimes.

When I came in 1993 it was illegal but opium treks were openly advertised in Chiang Mai and marijuana was everywhere (no surprise as it grows naturally). Yet drug use was one of those things that the Thais left as something in the private sphere, unless you took it out into the public then the police would do something. I think the Yaba epidemic considerably changed Thai and police attitudes to drugs

[apple69]

we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya.

Well I fully agree that you've got to be more than a little silly to do drugs in Thailand. However, come on man... as fun a place as it can be, Pattaya has much much more than it's fair share of freakoids roaming about that city. I'm pretty sure a good number of those oddballs would make your average weed smokers look like some of the most upstanding and respectable members of society you're ever likely to meet!

[Tolley]

Weed is a drug (I don't buy into that it's natural man... it comes from the earth man) and not one you want to do every moment of every day... but on those rare occasion when you want to kick back I see no harm to partake. That said, in London cannabis is so wide spread and by so many accepted (walk down many a street and you'll get a wiff of that sticky sweet smell). However when you're in a foreign land (especially one so infamous for it's stance on drugs!) why risk it?? Cannabis is a nice way to relax now and then but... to take the chance? It's really not that good!

Kinda strange though, I was talking to a Thai friend of mine the other day. She's a self confessed stonner and likes nothing more. She also said that about 20 years back it was very legal... in fact some stalls used to sprinkle it in their noodles to make you eat more! I don't know if that was bullshit but... it kinda makes sense )

It wasn't legal 20 years ago or 30 years ago.

I first came to Thailand in 1979 and it wasn't legal then and people were going to gaol in those days too for drug crimes.

When I came in 1993 it was illegal but opium treks were openly advertised in Chiang Mai and marijuana was everywhere (no surprise as it grows naturally). Yet drug use was one of those things that the Thais left as something in the private sphere, unless you took it out into the public then the police would do something. I think the Yaba epidemic considerably changed Thai and police attitudes to drugs

Well I was in Ko Samui in 1980 0r 81 can't remember exactly and a bunch of Aussie guys were seen by the local police smoking bongs in their beach hut.

The police were in a boat and they came up to the beach and busted the guys. They were locked up and had to pay a substantial fine and then had to go home.

Yes there were people smoking and taking mushrooms and all sorts of things but it was still illegal and people were still getting busted and it was ruining their holidays.

Plenty of people got away with taking drugs in Thailand in the past and also in present days but the risk is there if you get caught that you will be banged up well and good.

It is not worth the risk in my opinion.

[cudaproject]

quote]

And one more thing there's plenty of substantiated researches that claim the use of soft drugs leads to hard drugs, but of course that's not what forward thinkers like to hear.

I agree what you're saying, with law is law.. that's fine, but don't start about researches regarding soft drugs lead to hard drugs.. basically people who go on to hard drugs do so cause they wish to do so and it is in their environment at that time.. The thing about these researches that are done is that they are performed on people who are using hard drugs, i.e. people who are in rehab etc and of course these people will have started with taking a few e's, bit of smoke etc before moving on to the harder stuff... BUT what the research fails to include is the millions and millions of other people around the world who use soft recreational drugs, don't have problems with it and have never had the urge to try harder drugs... It's all about the person, the situation...

[gymshark]

Simple formula, follow the law of the land regarding drugs and you don't get busted. Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies, they take the chance, if they get caught then it's tough, take your medicine and don't cry like a baby about it. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[kedawi]

Simple formula, follow the law of the land regarding drugs and you don't get busted. Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies, they take the chance, if they get caught then it's tough, take your medicine and don't cry like a baby about it. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

"Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies"

To me that indicates the poster really isn't clued up on drugs.

It looks like regardless of the pertinent issues this post is divided along the lines of DRUGS and ANTI-DRUGS.

"And one more thing there's plenty of substantiated researches that claim the use of soft drugs leads to hard drugs"

this I'm afraid is not true...it has long been the cry of the anti-drugs camp but simply not substantiated.

It is however an interesting example of how if something is said often enough people believe it.

anyone with any knowledge of drug abuse and abusers would know how tenuous that concept is.

[gymshark]

Simple formula, follow the law of the land regarding drugs and you don't get busted. Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies, they take the chance, if they get caught then it's tough, take your medicine and don't cry like a baby about it. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

"Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies"

To me that indicates the poster really isn't clued up on drugs.

Why? The risk of incarceration is the same is it not? Illegal is illegal, people get banged up for weed and heroin.

[kedawi]

Simple formula, follow the law of the land regarding drugs and you don't get busted. Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies, they take the chance, if they get caught then it's tough, take your medicine and don't cry like a baby about it. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

"Hop heads run the risk the same as full on junkies"

To me that indicates the poster really isn't clued up on drugs.

Why? The risk of incarceration is the same is it not? Illegal is illegal, people get banged up for weed and heroin.

there you go...yet another fallacy

[gymshark]

Weed and heroin are legal here?

[kedawi]

Weed and heroin are legal here?

Now you're getting silly!

[ourmaninbangers]

my friend, it is you who need to do the homework before you start to lecture a forward thinker and take the high ground, hence, once again, an example of the mistakes of this sort of thingl. Maybe you should just chill....

people making totaly wrong claims and trying to use them as proof- the world over this happens sadly

- what you say has not, and never will be "proven". Yes, some people say this- some not. Show me your "proof",

you can,t , it does,nt exist- I,ll show you the counter claims. Lots of them in fact. Not to mention all the other evidence, like people who smoke all theirs lives, and are happy doing so.They don,t seem to be too posioned by " 20 times, are you sure its 2, not 21 or 21/12 or 192/,do you know how stupid that sounds? more poisonous

which hat was 20 times more pulled out of....?

This existing law its both stupid, and unenforceable. And so hypocritical-

OK forward thinker, you keep using the illicit drugs, but pardon me for being a backward old fart, and choosing to stay away from everything illegal.

And one more thing there's plenty of substantiated researches that claim the use of soft drugs leads to hard drugs, but of course that's not what forward thinkers like to hear.

The law is what it is, even if YOU think it's stupid

Go ahead break the law if you so wish, see if I care when you get caught. I'm not PC enough to give a dam-n.

cheers

onzestan

you just proved my point my friend,

you need to chill, 1/389.1 % of it.....( any more stats like that today?) so now, besides having logical, reseached based arguements( with great stats sometimes) you can also know the future too?----100% i,ll get caught will I? what have you been taking? I want some!

I do not think so,

yes, my friend, the law is what it is....have you made another assumption, the mother of all F up is it not?

yes, you have, it is typical, I will enlighten you...

I live in holland my friend- I cannot get "caught" here opps,sorry to spoil your obviously well thougth out theory

and even i did for somethign hardkore,

really hardkore there is vitually zero chance of doing any jailtime,

there is an enlightend programe here which does kind of know its subject

you,d be helping yourself if you copied the same princeble -

so I,am afraid we will not be meeting there......

Now lets all chill,

I agree there lots of things saying one thing lead to another, and alot that does,nt.

And I,ve been at it all my life, and will do so (even if I do get " caught in place where I cannot( !), I love guys like you...) so have everyone around me,

and guess what.... nobodys into the hard stuff, so its not 100%,but that the way it is, and goes along way to disprove those type of theorys, do you not agree? Country that often say this do so to back a failed zero tolenance polcy

drugs are not going away, not now, not before not ever, a middle road is needed

But I do pardon you for being backward old fart

bye

[DisainaM]

well, for young travellers, the film THE BEACH, and a lot of confuse information can cause the wrong perspective.

but in these times, also cambodia is changing

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2008...n-cambodia.html

[scyriacus]

...And one more thing there's plenty of substantiated researches that claim the use of soft drugs leads to hard drugs.....

But I do pardon you for being backward old fart

greetings to holland! our 'old fart' is perfectly right. because soft drugs are illegal (albeit totally harmless and often even prescribed). if one wants to eat a hashish cookie, he needs to go to a criminal who often says: "psst, have some finest crack here". like in prohibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition), when millions of otherwise law abiding americans were criminalized just because they craved for a beer or a whiskey. the mafia took over and got rich, corrupt politicians & cops profitted. imagine today you wanna buy a beer somewhere and the sales guy says to you: "psst, but i have some finest heroin too, the first trial is free!". there is only one answer: legalize it! and not the pusher and the drug barons, but the small user of soft drugs. in holland everyone can go and buy cannabis/marijuana just like a beer. and 99% of these people are happy & peaceful. in an alcoholic bar there are often brawls & fights & blood.....not so with ganja. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug).

i'd wish i could stay more often in holland than on tv...........

[scyriacus]

well, for young travellers, the film THE BEACH, and a lot of confuse information can cause the wrong perspective. but in these times, also cambodia is changing http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2008...n-cambodia.html

for non smokers, do you have more recipes? (smoking is hazardous to your health!)

[Kerryd]

Fortunately we are talking about Thailand here, not Holland.

And hard drugs are a problem in Holland as well. My first trip to Amsterdam, I lost count of how many times I was offered pretty much every kind of hard drug imaginable. I was almost mugged by some Rastafarian types that tried selling me coke, and threatened me when I wouldn't buy.

Gangs of drug dealers patrolling up and down the canals, carrying umbrellas and walking sticks with blades hidden in them. There are places in Amsterdam that the locals told me they don't go near in the daytime unless they are in a group of 3-4 or more people. At night ? Forget it, they told me not to go there period, even if I was with friends.

One guy at the hotel I was in thought he'd play a joke on me. We had this thick Turkish coffee with breakfast (the kind where there's an inch of grounds at the bottom of the cup). I came in for breakfast and this guy had already got me a coffee. Not long after I'm staggering along the streets, trying to figure out what the hel_l was going on. This guy is laughing his ass off. Turns out he'd dumped a gram of hash into my coffee.

Luckily for me it was only hash and not something stronger. I was pissed to say the least, and then had to worry about going back to the base where they were doing random urine tests. Could have meant the end of my career. Nice joke.

In Canada, I stopped associating with one group of friends that used to (probably still do) smoke a lot of pot. Even though they were cultivating hybrid (female only) plants to maximize the THC content, after awhile it wasn't enough. For parties they'd start adding other substances to the pot to get a better buzz (some kind of meth). Wonder what they do when that isn't enough either ?

I worked in the lower East Side of Vancouver a few years ago. Main & Hastings area. Probably 80% of the people on the streets in that area are junkies and/or pushers. Some of the people in my building were recovering addicts.

Gees, guess what ? None of them started off on hard drugs ! NONE OF THEM. Every single person I spoke to had basically the same story. Started off drinking or smoking pot, or smoking pot while drinking. One way or another they all graduated to hard drugs. A lucky few were able to kick it eventually, but they represent the very small minority of drug users. Most of the rest end up dying of an overdose or disease.

The cops do what they can, but it gets frustrating when you bust a pusher for the 17th time (no lie, some have been arrested even more often, caught red-handed, on film, in the act of selling), and the court decides to let him go because he only had a small amount of (crack/heroin/coke/etc) on him at the time.

So does this leniency by the courts do any good ? Not a chance. It just gets worse and worse.

Legalize it ? Why, so the whole city can be over run by drug addicted, diseased junkies ? Yeah, great idea. They are catching kids (10-12 years old) selling drugs in schools. Teen girls are getting addicted and put on the streets to sell their asses so they can buy another fix.

They opened a "safe injection site" in Vancouver. A place where junkies could get clean needles and shoot up without fear of being busted by the cops. The idea was that it would cut down on the spread of disease and number of people dying from ODs. It was supposed to be modelled on a program that originated in Switzerland a few years before.

They made it all sound so nice. But they forgot to tell people why the program in Switzerland was shut down. Apparently there was an area in (Geneva ? Bern ? I forget which one) that had a park where 3-400 junkies would congregate. They started a safe injection site thinking it would cut down on crime in the area and help prevent the spread of diseases. If I recall, they were even providing quantities of "safe" drugs.

From what I read at the time, they had to close the program down because the area suddenly became overrun with junkies from all over Europe. The 3-400 that were there originally swiftly became thousands.

Oh yeah. Crime in the area increased dramatically as well. Spread of diseases increased. Number of people dying from ODs increased.

Program finally declared a failure and shut down.

I'm glad places like Thailand take a harsh approach to drugs. Middle Eastern countries are even worse (like the 4 year minimum prison sentence that the UAE hands out for even the smallest quantity of any kind of illegal drug).

Think about it. People have been doing drugs in Amsterdam for generations. If everything was so rosy and wonderful and peaceful and nice, why haven't more countries followed suit ?

If anything, more countries are making their laws tougher. Why ? If Holland is such a shiny example, why aren't other countries allowing Pot Cafes and Hash Bars to spring up everywhere ? Hmmm ?

Oh I know. The stock answer from all the druggies is usually "We're right, and everyone else is wrong". Even if that "everyone else" is probably 96% of the planet.

Yep. 5.75 billion are wrong and .25 billion are right.

[G54]

Simple solution to this one...dont do drugs in thailand, then you dont get deported and dont get fined twice.

Better solution : don't do drugs ANYWHERE!!!!

cheers

onzestan

Except dope in the UK for the Arthritis

But to have drugs in countries such as Thailand is at your own foolish risk.

[tropo]

Simple solution to this one...dont do drugs in thailand, then you dont get deported and dont get fined twice.

The moral police are here - there's one in every thread.

[kedawi]

Fortunately we are talking about Thailand here, not Holland.

And hard drugs are a problem in Holland as well. My first trip to Amsterdam, I lost count of how many times I was offered pretty much every kind of hard drug imaginable. I was almost mugged by some Rastafarian types that tried selling me coke, and threatened me when I wouldn't buy.

Gangs of drug dealers patrolling up and down the canals, carrying umbrellas and walking sticks with blades hidden in them. There are places in Amsterdam that the locals told me they don't go near in the daytime unless they are in a group of 3-4 or more people. At night ? Forget it, they told me not to go there period, even if I was with friends.

One guy at the hotel I was in thought he'd play a joke on me. We had this thick Turkish coffee with breakfast (the kind where there's an inch of grounds at the bottom of the cup). I came in for breakfast and this guy had already got me a coffee. Not long after I'm staggering along the streets, trying to figure out what the hel_l was going on. This guy is laughing his ass off. Turns out he'd dumped a gram of hash into my coffee.

Luckily for me it was only hash and not something stronger. I was pissed to say the least, and then had to worry about going back to the base where they were doing random urine tests. Could have meant the end of my career. Nice joke.

In Canada, I stopped associating with one group of friends that used to (probably still do) smoke a lot of pot. Even though they were cultivating hybrid (female only) plants to maximize the THC content, after awhile it wasn't enough. For parties they'd start adding other substances to the pot to get a better buzz (some kind of meth). Wonder what they do when that isn't enough either ?

I worked in the lower East Side of Vancouver a few years ago. Main & Hastings area. Probably 80% of the people on the streets in that area are junkies and/or pushers. Some of the people in my building were recovering addicts.

Gees, guess what ? None of them started off on hard drugs ! NONE OF THEM. Every single person I spoke to had basically the same story. Started off drinking or smoking pot, or smoking pot while drinking. One way or another they all graduated to hard drugs. A lucky few were able to kick it eventually, but they represent the very small minority of drug users. Most of the rest end up dying of an overdose or disease.

The cops do what they can, but it gets frustrating when you bust a pusher for the 17th time (no lie, some have been arrested even more often, caught red-handed, on film, in the act of selling), and the court decides to let him go because he only had a small amount of (crack/heroin/coke/etc) on him at the time.

So does this leniency by the courts do any good ? Not a chance. It just gets worse and worse.

Legalize it ? Why, so the whole city can be over run by drug addicted, diseased junkies ? Yeah, great idea. They are catching kids (10-12 years old) selling drugs in schools. Teen girls are getting addicted and put on the streets to sell their asses so they can buy another fix.

They opened a "safe injection site" in Vancouver. A place where junkies could get clean needles and shoot up without fear of being busted by the cops. The idea was that it would cut down on the spread of disease and number of people dying from ODs. It was supposed to be modelled on a program that originated in Switzerland a few years before.

They made it all sound so nice. But they forgot to tell people why the program in Switzerland was shut down. Apparently there was an area in (Geneva ? Bern ? I forget which one) that had a park where 3-400 junkies would congregate. They started a safe injection site thinking it would cut down on crime in the area and help prevent the spread of diseases. If I recall, they were even providing quantities of "safe" drugs.

From what I read at the time, they had to close the program down because the area suddenly became overrun with junkies from all over Europe. The 3-400 that were there originally swiftly became thousands.

Oh yeah. Crime in the area increased dramatically as well. Spread of diseases increased. Number of people dying from ODs increased.

Program finally declared a failure and shut down.

I'm glad places like Thailand take a harsh approach to drugs. Middle Eastern countries are even worse (like the 4 year minimum prison sentence that the UAE hands out for even the smallest quantity of any kind of illegal drug).

Think about it. People have been doing drugs in Amsterdam for generations. If everything was so rosy and wonderful and peaceful and nice, why haven't more countries followed suit ?

If anything, more countries are making their laws tougher. Why ? If Holland is such a shiny example, why aren't other countries allowing Pot Cafes and Hash Bars to spring up everywhere ? Hmmm ?

Oh I know. The stock answer from all the druggies is usually "We're right, and everyone else is wrong". Even if that "everyone else" is probably 96% of the planet.

Yep. 5.75 billion are wrong and .25 billion are right.

.....

Sorry but you are about 50 years out of date in your understanding of drug abuse - or use - ....if you want to use expressions like hard drugs" -you would have to include alcohol.

th expression is redundant anyway.

To say that users of smack all used pot first is a furphy...they probably all ate baked beans too but that doesn't mean it leads to "harder stuff" in fact there's NOTHING in any drug that makes the user want a "stronger" effect....there IS however sometihng in the user that looks for stronger effects.

There is a lot of ignorance about drugs....and it doesn't surprise me to see a lot of it expressed on this thread.

Edited September 14, 2008 by kedawi

[tropo]

Simple solution to this one...dont do drugs in thailand, then you dont get deported and dont get fined twice.

The moral police are here - there's one in every thread.

Whoops! Sorry! Just read the whole thread...there's dozens of moral police in here. They're having a party!

[Kerryd]

.....

Sorry but you are about 50 years out of date in your understanding of drug abuse - or use - ....if you want to use expressions like hard drugs" -you would have to include alcohol.

th expression is redundant anyway.

To say that users of smack all used pot first is a furphy...they probably all ate baked beans too but that doesn't mean it leads to "harder stuff" in fact there's NOTHING in any drug that makes the user want a "stronger" effect....there IS however sometihng in the user that looks for stronger effects.

There is a lot of ignorance about drugs....and it doesn't surprise me to see a lot of it expressed on this thread.

Uh yeah, right. Problem with your assumption is that up until 5 years ago (not 50) I used to see it and hear about it every day.

And I didn't say all users of smack (crack/coke/etc) started off smoking pot. Just ALL the ones I spoke to (admittedly, that was only about 15 people over a couple of months). Maybe some just jumped straight into mainlining heroin, snorting coke and smoking crack without ever doing anything else before. Yeah, surely that's the case.

I do agree that there is something in the user that makes them look for a stronger, better high, which usually comes after they can't get the same effect with what ever softer drug they were using. But once they get on the harder stuff, it's difficult to kick. H3ll, people have a hard enough time quitting smoking, let alone getting off heroin.

However, as far as alcohol is concerned, people don't get addicted to it anywhere near as easily as they do with drugs. I'll drink like a fish when I'm on holidays, and then go 3-4 months or more without a drop, no problem. No withdrawals or cravings. No desire to sell my ass for a drink, or commit a crime to get money for another shot. I don't recall ever hearing of an alcoholic spiking his drink with crystal meth to try and get a better buzz. I think if you check, most liquor store and gas station robberies aren't committed by drunks trying to get money for another bottle.

And druggies can be just as violent (or worse) than alcoholics. I've seen it first hand. I've seen the bodies on the streets and in the alleyways. Fights in parking lots. People staggering around threatening other people with knives and needles. I've helped people that were mugged in broad daylight, and others that OD'd on street corners.

The last one I dealt with was in her mid to late 20's. I was walking down a block and saw a body on the curb of an intersection. People were stepping around it to cross the street. City bus going around the corner almost hit her head. Nobody paying any attention to her. I got there and checked her out. No response. Called 911. A woman stopped by when she saw me trying to help. Took one look at her eyes and said "OD", then walked away. Paramedics arrived, did a quick check and took her off the hospital. Never heard what happened to her.

Don't for a second even think to tell me about how great and wonderful drugs are.

I'll also agree with you that there is a lot of ignorance about drugs, and not surprisingly (to me) a lot of that comes from the people that seem to think it's all sunshine and roses.

From what I've seen and experienced, no roses and very little sunshine.

Lots of death and misery though.

[ourmaninbangers]

...And one more thing there's plenty of substantiated researches that claim the use of soft drugs leads to hard drugs.....

But I do pardon you for being backward old fart

greetings to holland! our 'old fart' is perfectly right. because soft drugs are illegal (albeit totally harmless and often even prescribed). if one wants to eat a hashish cookie, he needs to go to a criminal who often says: "psst, have some finest crack here". like in prohibition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition), when millions of otherwise law abiding americans were criminalized just because they craved for a beer or a whiskey. the mafia took over and got rich, corrupt politicians & cops profitted. imagine today you wanna buy a beer somewhere and the sales guy says to you: "psst, but i have some finest heroin too, the first trial is free!". there is only one answer: legalize it! and not the pusher and the drug barons, but the small user of soft drugs. in holland everyone can go and buy cannabis/marijuana just like a beer. and 99% of these people are happy & peaceful. in an alcoholic bar there are often brawls & fights & blood.....not so with ganja. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug).

i'd wish i could stay more often in holland than on tv...........

people like you are always welcome in holland

so too is the windy ole fella.. bless them

[ourmaninbangers]

.....

Sorry but you are about 50 years out of date in your understanding of drug abuse - or use - ....if you want to use expressions like hard drugs" -you would have to include alcohol.

th expression is redundant anyway.

To say that users of smack all used pot first is a furphy...they probably all ate baked beans too but that doesn't mean it leads to "harder stuff" in fact there's NOTHING in any drug that makes the user want a "stronger" effect....there IS however sometihng in the user that looks for stronger effects.

There is a lot of ignorance about drugs....and it doesn't surprise me to see a lot of it expressed on this thread.

Uh yeah, right. Problem with your assumption is that up until 5 years ago (not 50) I used to see it and hear about it every day.

And I didn't say all users of smack (crack/coke/etc) started off smoking pot. Just ALL the ones I spoke to (admittedly, that was only about 15 people over a couple of months). Maybe some just jumped straight into mainlining heroin, snorting coke and smoking crack without ever doing anything else before. Yeah, surely that's the case.

I do agree that there is something in the user that makes them look for a stronger, better high, which usually comes after they can't get the same effect with what ever softer drug they were using. But once they get on the harder stuff, it's difficult to kick. H3ll, people have a hard enough time quitting smoking, let alone getting off heroin.

However, as far as alcohol is concerned, people don't get addicted to it anywhere near as easily as they do with drugs. I'll drink like a fish when I'm on holidays, and then go 3-4 months or more without a drop, no problem. No withdrawals or cravings. No desire to sell my ass for a drink, or commit a crime to get money for another shot. I don't recall ever hearing of an alcoholic spiking his drink with crystal meth to try and get a better buzz. I think if you check, most liquor store and gas station robberies aren't committed by drunks trying to get money for another bottle.

And druggies can be just as violent (or worse) than alcoholics. I've seen it first hand. I've seen the bodies on the streets and in the alleyways. Fights in parking lots. People staggering around threatening other people with knives and needles. I've helped people that were mugged in broad daylight, and others that OD'd on street corners.

The last one I dealt with was in her mid to late 20's. I was walking down a block and saw a body on the curb of an intersection. People were stepping around it to cross the street. City bus going around the corner almost hit her head. Nobody paying any attention to her. I got there and checked her out. No response. Called 911. A woman stopped by when she saw me trying to help. Took one look at her eyes and said "OD", then walked away. Paramedics arrived, did a quick check and took her off the hospital. Never heard what happened to her.

Don't for a second even think to tell me about how great and wonderful drugs are.

I'll also agree with you that there is a lot of ignorance about drugs, and not surprisingly (to me) a lot of that comes from the people that seem to think it's all sunshine and roses.

From what I've seen and experienced, no roses and very little sunshine.

Lots of death and misery though.

hello there

may i say....and lots of fun and great times too my friend

theres a huge differnce between drug use and drug abuse

I,ve had fun all my life, I,am told I,am in perfect shape...

you,ll read lots about all the propaganda about death, horrible miserys, soft drugs leading to hard ( we had laugh today about that one as we all sat round enjoing ourselves) well, theres another side, alot of great fun and times, alot of sunshine

good news does,nt make the headlines..

goverments do not wish people like me to speak, it destoys what they like to feed us...

I could write storys about all the fun I,ve had...the people I met, I was stoned off my head most of my school years, I was also one of the tops of my class

in my circle we,ve never seen any of misery of which you do talk ( although we know they exist, same as the smookers, drinkers, etc),

because we know what we do, we were taught correctly...,belive me- theres alot sunshine to enjoy if one wears the shades

seeing that no govenrement has or will ever end it, and should,nt really have the right to tell people what do to anyway espeically the really corrupt, silly ones which are known to sell their daughters worldwide- so hypathcritical this is...( my english friend is,nt here to write for me, sorry)

why not let us consider a more enlightend, mature response,the middle road, or at least somethign else, because what they are doing now ain,t working, will never, can ever work,

off to get in some sun!

best wishes

[ourmaninbangers]

this is yet another example of the low lifes that come to thailand . we do not what low life drug takers or pushers here in pattaya . go else where .

sound like we,ve been using the same english teacher my friend, you,ll soon get lots of mails about this- I did!

drug takers are not all lowlifes, are they? some are I,am sure, like everyone

the list is endless, Kings, Queens, Prime ministers, the Samurai loved a puff, the incas

mmm - all lowlifes?

and people who go around saying that so easily about other,s are usually saying alot more about themselves,I,am sorry somethings seems not to have worked out for you- and some of your friends..

and, once again, do you include all the drug takers?,

I agree that pushers can not be nice people- but I,ve never heard of one forcing someone to buy their wears-

do you include the ones who drink booze, smoke too, take pills without prisecriptions- who will be left?

do you beleive the accurate and highly amusing claims

" its 20 times more posion...!"

type nonsense crazy flawed to hel_l stats ( who said that I,am yet to hear, 20 times, not 21 -1/3%, ,is,nt it funny how they always seem to hit a round number, and which cigerette?

( high tar, low tar, menthol, what poisonous chemical?

if this were true I and most of my family would be dead a long time ago( my relative just turn 89....is that proof that those stats are 67.1/4% wrong? no, this proves, like that gentleman stats- zero, the differnce is i know this)

is someone who has been taking for years, and has no harm to society but indeed is good person in some peopl,s book- also a lowlife too because he choose to light up? drop a pill, tab, etc

are we not allowed to do what we choose?follow the law says one man, its still law, although he did,nt bother to check that either...

and

is buying women legal then in thailand?- now, if you want to talk about scum

I do not like the word scum,

but if I could I would direct it far more to those men who take advantage of young girls/women in pattaya, and whole of thailand of which there are many

in your book are they lowlife too?

ever done anything that could point your comment back at you?

I could say the same about these men who do this, but its too broad,silly and I,d probabaly be up against a majorty percentage of men in thailand

no this sort of thing is just plain- backward, too broad, too judmental, too flawed,better left with the that old school of thought

now I,ll give you some real facts/stats

drugs will not go away- there a huge differnce between use and abuse-the vast majorty of people who have had some sort of drug education go through there whole lifes without any problems at all, and indeed many report that drugs improved the quality of there life, these stats are suppressed-

the current policy of " lock ,em all up, they,re all scum has never worked, will never work, so lets stop all this nonsese, a middle of the road approach is required-for the takers, so called victimes, and overcrowed, completely failed prisons systems which simply act as training /network centres for criminals

in thailand its all so silly because anyone who has every been caught with any small amound just needs to reach into his pocket and take out some cash...

now, lets put our egos aside, does any of this amke any sense? sound true

I hope so

best wishes