damslund Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Me and my wife have just buy 50 rai of land for 36000 baht in the mornten. Frist we have think to plante Robber trees and Eucalitus trees but after i have read in here i know now they need a lot of water and up there is limit water end the dry time can be very dry. Is there somebody there know what can be good there and give a like with same plant info and how to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I assume that's 36000 Baht/Rai. Several things dictate what to grow. Where the land is? When wet does it flood? What are the locals growing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damslund Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 I assume that's 36000 Baht/Rai. Several things dictate what to grow. Where the land is? When wet does it flood? What are the locals growing? No it is 36000 baht for all... good price The land is in esan near kalasin in a high of 3-400 m The locals do rice, corn, thai potetos, chili and i little bit eucalyptus or else just normal boulding tree. is flood from the end of may and 4 monht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonwan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I assume that's 36000 Baht/Rai. Several things dictate what to grow. Where the land is? When wet does it flood? What are the locals growing? No it is 36000 baht for all... good price The land is in esan near kalasin in a high of 3-400 m The locals do rice, corn, thai potetos, chili and i little bit eucalyptus or else just normal boulding tree. is flood from the end of may and 4 monht Bt36,000 in total for 50 rai??? At that price, damslund, I believe you have just rented it for one year! Rgds Khonwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damslund Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 I assume that's 36000 Baht/Rai. Several things dictate what to grow. Where the land is? When wet does it flood? What are the locals growing? No it is 36000 baht for all... good price The land is in esan near kalasin in a high of 3-400 m The locals do rice, corn, thai potetos, chili and i little bit eucalyptus or else just normal boulding tree. is flood from the end of may and 4 monht Bt36,000 in total for 50 rai??? At that price, damslund, I believe you have just rented it for one year! Rgds Khonwan lol lol humm never know... No have just got the paper on it and it is family i have buy it of... but there are no water and el up there... os thats way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonwan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 lol lol humm never know...No have just got the paper on it and it is family i have buy it of... but there are no water and el up there... os thats way Hi damslund Well I would be VERY suspicious of what I had just bought at that ridiculously low price (which is probably 10-20% of its worth; land around me without electricity or water now goes for around Bt12,000 per rai). What kind of paper? Can you read it? Given that suspicion, I would not be investing in long-term crops such as rubber or eucalyptus. I would consider cassava (18-month crop if planted now). Rgds Khonwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maizefarmer Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Baht36K for 50rai! ........I see big Red Flags here, but okay in the unlikely event all is in order, then: a) whats the accessibility to water (you say no water, but is there a river or canal anywhere nearby)? whats the condition of the land (overgrown with trees - shrubs and bush - full of stones - level ground or hilly or slanted - up high or low down relative to surrounding land)? c) whats the titleship - Chanote/Sor Por 3 ect ect ..... (if you cant read Thai or are not sure, scan in and send to my message box)? What to plant? Well, others have said, your first pointer has to be what others around you are growing, but crop choice aside, if you have no farming experiance then I would advise you to spend a good 12 - 18 months doing homework before commiting any funds to any type of farming - arable or stock? Yes - that long: farming is no less a profession than any other business in Thailand. While you may well be able to take it on the chin if 5 - 10 rai doesn't keep the books in the black, 50 rai in the red is a very different matter indeed. 50 rai (in Thailand) is around the limit for arable crop farm sizes from which one can derive a self-supporting income from (crop dependant). The point is 2fold: you will have tight margins and little space for mistakes that mean the differance between profit/loss each season, and secondly, a 50 rai crop planting investment (along with the equipment/logistics to support successfull cultivation) will (can) be an expensive investment with little chance of recovering capital outlay should you decide to call it day. Whatever crop you decide to cultivate, start off small with about 3 - 5 rai and see how it goes. Build on that each season (5rai to 10 rai, 10rai to 15 rai, 15 to 25 ........ or at whatever rate you feel comfortable with). Top reasons (well, one of them) why ex-pats who settle here ultimatley fail with farming projects is not because they are not well motivated, not that they are not sufficiently capatilsed (although the lack of funds to carry one through mistakes can be), its failiar to appreciate that to generate a realistic income, covering living expenses, supporting a family and establishing overall financial security, requires an understanding of farming no less detailed and thorough than the knowldege required by any other "professional" to successfully practise their profession. A year spent studying and educating yourself on the practical aspects and economics of farming before planting, will be a year well spent. I wish you all the best and welcome to the forum. MF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonwan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 ...which is probably 10-20% of its worth... Damslund, I meant to say that your price is probably 5-10% (not 10-20%) of its worth. Also, I’ve just noticed you said that the land floods (all 50 rai? At an altitude of 3-400m?) end of May for 4 months: that rules out cassava (what you referred to as Thai potatoes). If the land was not subject to flooding (or for the parts of your land that may not be), I would say you are unlikely to go wrong with planting cassava…despite MF’s excellent advice. I tend to push cassava because it is an ideal crop for beginners. At current prices (and I do not see them falling), you will probably make a profit with cassava so long as you apply even just basic common sense, like making sure the person in charge merits your trust. The amount of profit (low or high) will depend on your management (follow my cassava thread and you’ll not go far wrong). Use the time whilst growing this easy crop (relevant to other crops) to study up on other crops and farm management techniques should you wish to take your farming interests further…an intention not yet indicated by you. It would be a shame to leave the land fallow for 18 months or so. Rgds Khonwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I assume that's 36000 Baht/Rai. Several things dictate what to grow. Where the land is? When wet does it flood? What are the locals growing? No it is 36000 baht for all... good price The land is in esan near kalasin in a high of 3-400 m The locals do rice, corn, thai potetos, chili and i little bit eucalyptus or else just normal boulding tree. is flood from the end of may and 4 monht MUST be rental price! Just over 700 baht per rai; going rental rate for similar land as described in my area is currently 800 baht/rai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinrada Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 and that should see you Sabai Sabai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chang35baht Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 DEFINITE TROLL!!!!! He learnt how to spell eucalitus in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baht Man Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 DEFINITE TROLL!!!!! He learnt how to spell eucalitus in a hurry. Try........ Eucalyptus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardog Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) seems incredibly cheap- Did you get a red #1 Chinote as shown in an earlier post or was it a hand shake jakawow deal. Sounds like it was a never gonna see a chinote deal. I wouldn't do jack shit on the property till you have a real title. Does it have any papers that came with the Purchase? Edited July 19, 2008 by Beardog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issangeorge Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 He says the land is at 3-400 metres, that sounds like it is on a mountain. I have afriend who recently bought about 50 rai on a mountain for about ฿36,000, so it is possible. The thing is though his land has no title and probably never will, but at ฿36,000 all you need is two or three good cassava crops and you have your money back. Issangeorge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somo Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 50 rai for 36K is impossible if the land has been cleared and is ready for plantiing with anything. I suspect that it has not been cleared and is covered with boulders. trees and bamboo. Clearing that lot would cost about 200,00 baht with a macro so still good value. It may be though that permission to clear the land is not available even with a backhander which makes the land worthless for farming purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 damslund; You have 50 rai of land for a price that makes some people feel like their land deals were not so good after all. Why don't you rent the land out to one of the locals who have experience in the area. You can watch and learn (one way or the other) and in a year or so do what you want. If its not cleared you can back up and look at other choices you have. I think the land, even if mountain side (400 meters???) and covered in brush and trees can be utilized in some way. (build a A-frame to go hide out in), fence it and let rabbits and or goats roam, lots of possibilities. Good luck with your project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzydom Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Hillside ,400m elevation and it floods for 4 months???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 ozzy; I ignored that as flood is in the eye of the beholder, waist deep in alligators or muddy for 4 months??? If locals are raiseing rice, chili, corn etc. there is no water avaliable for irrigration and it floods for 4 months of the year, someone out ther has a handle on things. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chang35baht Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 DEFINITE TROLL!!!!! He learnt how to spell eucalitus in a hurry. Try........ Eucalyptus You really got me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chang35baht Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) Hillside ,400m elevation and it floods for 4 months???????? Thank you Ozzy. My thoughts exactly. :spam1 P.S. What happened to the Troll emoticon? Edited July 20, 2008 by chang35baht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chang35baht Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 this one will do for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damslund Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hi Thanks for all the anwser and sorry for my very bad writeing english... The land is at the mountain and what i mean is at it is rain for around 4 mounth.. It is not clean and ready for anything.. have to do all that... it is around 5-600 baht a rai and then 2-3 other staff... not os bad The land is not at the mountain side but there is 1 rai with stone.. I have plant 100 Eucalyptus trees and get 400 more soon and then i will see how it is going and learn one the way... i have read that Eucalyptus is a easy tree. I have buy it from family and that why the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HYENA Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 My fiancee and her family work their tails off..total gam rai (profit) after eating and everything is $1400 for the households. This year I paid for some Urea but I started thinking about all I've spent and it's been over $1400 already so this farming thing is in the red. Some is investing in water pumps, hoses, etc...but I don't see any economical sense out of this rice farming headache....why not sell all the land and --sell anything in the city instead of this hold in the paddy in which to throw money? I started thinking of alternative crops but they've tried that and the neighbors steal the food (there's true hunger with some of the neighbors and neighbors have helped my fiancee's family when there was no food before we met). About 1/4 of the land is visible directly from the house so anything could happen to the rest of it if other crops are planted (IMHO). They now have a hand tractor and about 10 acres (40 Rai) from what I can figure. I just bought a large water pump so they may be able to try planting twice a year but all depends on the wells. Land seems ridiculously expensive (anyone know a reasonable price per Rai in Roi ET/Khon Kaen area? Based on the knowledge and expertise (and mistakes) of you, what would you suggest? I need to invest in some type of business where the business would pay the family, generating its own income (I'm not fond of supporting her family directly versus investing in something that will pay them for years to come). I've been tossing around Tapioca, Macadamia (amidst my ignorance), selling everything and starting elsewhere where land isn't so expensive. I'm not new to farming but new to Thai crops and issues. I'm convinced smart money will go a long way decreasing the risk. Land in their area seems awfully expensive to me for a piss of a profit (something like 100k per rai without stable water). I may be wrong but I'll narrow down the land cost (I recall it being hideous-more than some parts of the USA). Question: What would you suggest as a maintenance income producer. They live in the outskirts of Roi Et. Because they're the poorest of the poor, anything I can do (I'd prefer not to just throw them money) would make a huge difference. I am thrilled this forum exists. I am also impressed by the selfless nature of information sharing that goes on in here. Truly a nice place to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonwan Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Hi Hyena Welcome to the farming forum. What alternative crops have they tried? If your family members are good workers, I’d suggest cassava (though not on rice paddy). Yes, I know I sound like a broken-down record but it really is a relatively easy crop to grow with an almost assured profit. Purchase of starter tree-stems was very expensive this year but I anticipate this will be cheaper next year. You have indicated that they are, but for others, if your family members are not good workers, I’d suggest doing nothing. No crop will take care of itself and return a profit. I would never consider paying anything like Bt100,000 per rai for farming land – the pay-back is way too long for me. Hopefully, other members will chime in with their suggestions too. Rgds Khonwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzydom Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Hyena, You dont say whether or not the whole 40 rai is paddy or only part thereof. As Khonwan says, there is not a lot that you can grow in paddy as a major crop other than rice. It is possible but requires capitol outlay and WORK to do. It can either be drained and built up or ,if you think there is a market you could put in fish ponds. If you can identify a market (preferably local sales) for say Pla Nin then a couple of rai of ponds will bring in a regular bit of cash. I mention local sales because the high cost of feed nowadays means that unless you are in a very big way you need to get 50 baht + a kilo to be profitable. 40 rai is not a bad block if its all useable ,it should give a reasonable return, (quite a lot more than the 1k baht per rai you stated) but it takes work and good management. Land around our village is a similar price and many families survive on 1/10 th of the land your family have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roygsd Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) Hillside ,400m elevation and it floods for 4 months???????? Its obviously a very flat hill roy gsd Edited August 7, 2008 by roygsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roygsd Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 this one will do for now. OI, Thats not a troll! Thats THE DONk" from oz:D Roy gsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HYENA Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) Thank you for your response & the welcome! I had some math calculation errors. They have 12-13 Rai (oops)! I just called her to verify...It is all paddy. There are a couple Rai without water (no pond). Next year the Thai government is due to build a water canal so the family wants land on the other side of the paddies but I'm thinking "buy land for what"? So far, the family is mainly planting red rice, sticky rice for eating alone and whatever the family doesn't eat they try to sell. I think they planted tapioca but everyone stole and ate it so it would have to be a crop starving people can't steal. They have about 10 cows (at 3000 a cow going rate, I also think they're more work and stink than worth- but what do I know?). It floods a little bit right about now so they had been planting once a year but they have a couple small wells and I just bought them a large water pump $142 for the thing) so they can flush the paddies and maybe plant twice a year if the wells don't dry up. One rai has wood trees but have to wait a year or two before those can be sold (not sure what kind but I see the large sapling trunks at some small lumber yards--look like large stalks of bamboo; maybe for building small structures up there)? After that, macadamias seem nice because that land doesn't look like it floods (it's slightly higher than the paddies) but waiting 10 years for the yield makes me impatient. I'm here thinking a fresh pair of eyes (with tons of ignorance) may be able to figure a way to gain more yeild. Urea is something like 500bt-1000bt a bag or so (I can't remember but it's a lotl)--I should have paid better attention but the bottom line is I see vast poverty and I don't really want to just throw money at the family when smart money would pay the family by itself. There are too many mouths to feed and her last boyfriend paid for a hand tractor and a toilet so they're on par with their neighbors (they were the poorest in the village before). Now she has a (by Isaan standards) husband (me-going to marry there in 6 months when the visa papers come but culturally we're married already-- you know how it is!) I started thinking of opening an internet cafe near the high school (my nephew is a whiz and says the money is there 'cause one cafe with 3 computers has lines outside waiting). I keep thinking if the family sold the land and we all invested in a business, then they could do better. Just not sure what I can do to make the biggest difference. I wish I were wealthy and could do big things in one swoop but it just isn't the case. After she comes here, we were planning on working and building a nicer house (versus the barn they live in) but then again, it would be better to open a business of some sort and make the business pay for the house. I'm new to Thailand but I've spent 2 1/2 months this year total on visits. I tried to contact a shoe company that sells cheep cheep (but good for this economy) shoes but the barriers (press 9 for English and she doesn't speak English-probably duped the company into believing she speaks English...then she says to refer to the company website for prices and shipping but the website is down and they don't believe me when I say it doesn't work)...You'd think a large company wouldn't be so idiotic and have so many barriers. I tell them I'm ready to buy but can't see a thing they sell (only what I bought at Robinson's for 100bt). I've invested in a huge headache by marrying but what can I do? Everyone is poor, can't afford school, food, etc and there's little me to fix 10 people's lives? AAARRRHHH! What did I get myself into? I could have married a doctor or an engineer but I had to go for the low educated farmer's daughter. There is love, so nothing else really matters; just trying to find a plan to bring them into this century with the smartest investments possible. One thing I also noticed is the kids are lazy...poor but lazy to work (the girls). I've never encountered impoverished lazy people in my life! I have to be careful not to voice my opinion too much or I'll hurt their feelings but it is frustrating when everyone wants me to help but some don't help themselves (except for my wife)...the rest see money and tag along, move in and situate near the money so it's difficult! I'm sure my story isn't new. I gave her mother 30,000bt last month originally to pay the bank for a land loan but the interest rate is below 4% so I told them to buy other things and pay minimum to the bank (urea, oil, etc) snce Thai inflation is above 4%. That's my situation...at a complete loss though. The men and the older women aren't afraid of labor and I pay for labor for my wife's land but again I'm against just supporting the family versus making money work for itself. Oh regarding Cassava, they grew it once (if there were a lot, no one would be able to steal enough) but they couldn't find any buyers in Roi Et. I think it may be good to try if they have a buyer (not sure how much, profits versus rice, though) I believe Cassava would be good for some of the drier portions despite the rain aren't muddy right now. Thanks again! Edited August 7, 2008 by HYENA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khonwan Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 ^ Although there are sweet varieties of cassava, mun hanatee (5 minute tuber/potatoe), the fields of cassava trees you will see growing are bitter varieties to prevent damage by rats, boars, etc – no one eats these. You need to have a cassava processor nearby, I’d say within 20km of your farm, for you to even consider cassava. I don’t know the current cost of urea but it was around Bt1,400 a month ago. I should think that the Internet café idea is well worth considering. Rgds Khonwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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