A Farewell To Pattaya: More People To Leave?

[innovator]

Thebeachlovers explained the situation quite clearly. Now, I can begin to understand the battle between the family plan and the sin city.

So, as the BIB begin to crack down on crime after so many years of seedy dealings that went unchecked, it begins to create a 'TURF BATTLE'. Those that want to keep things the way they were, profitable and fun against those family supporters that want to get rid of the bars, crime, girls, fun and replace it with higher cost housing/rentals and related consumer products. (That would explain the recent surge in crime in the local area).

If this is the true battle, then the pro family supporters have forgotton one important things and that is what to do with the base of poor people living in the area who will be out of money if the bars, gogos, fun, girls, and most importantly Male Tourists disappear.

So, Thebeachlovers, how do you see this battle playing out over the long-term?

[R123]

Agree with Beachlovers excellent post (179 above) about preventing turning Pattaya into another cr***y family resort town.

Also:

For more than 10 years plus now living in a house here is fraught with the danger of being burgled etc Either have top class 24 hour security or live in a condo/apartment that is secure.

[kedawi]

If you put a large number of people in one place it is inevitable that some will be anti-social" regardless of the city's location.

Example - In Europe, forgetting to lock your car means that it will be robbed or at least "investigated" by someone ...in Pattaya. i would suggest the chances are much lower.

furthermore thailand is a "developing" nation and the rule of law is at best wobbly....so infrastructue etc frequently fails to keep up with the pace of unregulated development. although Pattaya is a hot-spot for this it is the case in most towns in thailand. I think when the gloss of the new town wears off, it will become apparent that it many ways it's a case of "out of the frying-pan into the fire"

[samuibeachcomber]

Pataya is not a place for the soft hearted it can be cruel where love is concerned

[geriatrickid]

I have never been to Pattaya and have suggested a couple of times to my Thai friends that we should go for a weekend at least so I can have a look. Outright hostile refusals from everyone.

Pattaya has a bad image. Maybe it's not justified, but that's the reality.

Patong,in Phuket where I stay is probably just as seedy. The difference though is that there is a better image for Phuket. The local government tried to rebrand the place as a family destination, and while the bars and naughtiness remain, the kiddies running around along with alot of young families and couples have toned down alot of the excesses that were scaring off people. So, don't fear the familification initiative in pattaya. It just might do the local image some good. You'll still have the bar fun, but maybe just maybe you won't have as much of the creepy stuff in public.

[poshthai]

For the second time in a year we have been burgled. My wife now wants to sell-up and move.

As I am working away from home I do not know the extent of the problem, but I was already (see earler post) contemplating a move to Hua Hin / Cha Am or even to UK.

My wife now agrees with me, but as we have the kids education to consider, this will have to be a long discussion, not just a Blair-like knee-jerk reaction to a single event.

I will post again around the end of August, when I have a few days at home.

I live on the 'Darkside', a few minutes drive from the lake in Pong village and I have been very happy here. It is nothing like Pattaya City and the local folk are friendly and honest.

My house is in a small development of 5 large luxury houses, each with it's own high walls and gates.

In the past 3 months, one of the houses has been broken into 3 times and another house was also burgled. The latest episode was last night. After the first spate of burglaries I installed a sensor along the walls which will raise the alarm if anyone attempts to climb over, and every door and window has been hard wired to a separate alarm system. Both systems are connected to my mobile phone and will ring me wherever I am. I am away at the moment, but when I return I will review my security and may add to it.

It is sad that things reached this level, but I am not going to be chased away so easily.Crime is everywhere - wherever you choose to go.

you are right there mate,its nothing like pattaya city.your area gets burgled regular and mine doesnt.jsut be careful on the darkside with all those friendly and honest people.

[NanLaew]

I have never been to Pattaya and have suggested a couple of times to my Thai friends that we should go for a weekend at least so I can have a look. Outright hostile refusals from everyone.

Pattaya has a bad image. Maybe it's not justified, but that's the reality.

Patong,in Phuket where I stay is probably just as seedy.

Glad that you pointed out where you actually stay. Dare I suggest that your Thai friends exhibit the same 'our sh*t don't stink' attitude of many farangs that live in Phuket and slag off their bigger, older sister up north.

When you have time, come on up for a week (without the local bigots) and you will see that our toilet does flush but, more importantly, you don't have to spend all the time in the toilet. Unless of course, you think that your sh*t don't stink either.

[Humphrey Bear]

you are right there mate,its nothing like pattaya city.your area gets burgled regular and mine doesnt.jsut be careful on the darkside with all those friendly and honest people.

As Mobi (and many others) knows - I live arounf Soi 17 / Suksabai Villa area.

Crime is everywhere - it may be that you just don't talk to your neighbours.

But I will also talk to my wife about befing up the security systems - and making sure the kids lock the doors when they go out to visit friends.

[Tolley]

I think it is generally safe to walk around Pattaya or night.

Things do happen but I have never felt in real danger walking around Pattaya. (ie main tourist area,anything from Third Road back to the beach)

That is not to say that Pattaya doesn't have its problems and indeed it does have a high assault rates and murders and property crimes and things can spiral out of control very quickly in Pattaya.

However it also has a great nightlife, great restaurants, cinemas and things that westerners need to survive in Thailand so while i would agree there are much nicer and safer areas in Thailand i wouldn't want to live in them.

I don't live in Pattaya full time and probably wouldn't want to.

But you can easily spend half your year in Pattaya and then half somewhere else.

[Maigo6]

I think it is generally safe to walk around Pattaya or night.

Things do happen but I have never felt in real danger walking around Pattaya. (ie main tourist area,anything from Third Road back to the beach)

That is not to say that Pattaya doesn't have its problems and indeed it does have a high assault rates and murders and property crimes and things can spiral out of control very quickly in Pattaya.

However it also has a great nightlife, great restaurants, cinemas and things that westerners need to survive in Thailand so while i would agree there are much nicer and safer areas in Thailand i wouldn't want to live in them.

I don't live in Pattaya full time and probably wouldn't want to.

But you can easily spend half your year in Pattaya and then half somewhere else.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Tolley on this one.

I have been away up in Loei for nearly 3 months, and I will shortly be returning to Pattaya as some mates are over, I have a House in Phu Kradung, Loei and I have a rental room in Pattaya that I have had for years. I was once considering a house in Pattaya, but the ammount of people I knew that had been broken into whilst away put me off. I knew one guy in Soi Korpai that was broken into 3 times in 2 weeks!!! And many of the O & G workers would come back to a house that had been broken into. No thank's!

I am looking forward to going back to Pattaya for a couple of weeks though!

Even though I would never again live there full time.

[thaibeachlovers]

Thebeachlovers explained the situation quite clearly. Now, I can begin to understand the battle between the family plan and the sin city.

So, as the BIB begin to crack down on crime after so many years of seedy dealings that went unchecked, it begins to create a 'TURF BATTLE'. Those that want to keep things the way they were, profitable and fun against those family supporters that want to get rid of the bars, crime, girls, fun and replace it with higher cost housing/rentals and related consumer products. (That would explain the recent surge in crime in the local area).

If this is the true battle, then the pro family supporters have forgotton one important things and that is what to do with the base of poor people living in the area who will be out of money if the bars, gogos, fun, girls, and most importantly Male Tourists disappear.

So, Thebeachlovers, how do you see this battle playing out over the long-term?

Well, not having a ( working ) crystal ball, I have no idea of the outcome of this battle, but looking to history it will not come out well for those of us who like our night life raw ( and affordable for those of us who are average income earners ).

To give an example, in the American wild west the first punters were ( mainly ) single male adventurers, on the run from something, or looking to make money, or perhaps just looking. Anyway, they ended up working as cowboys or goldminers or such. Following them came clever people looking to make money by exploiting the first people ( remember that in a gold rush the only people making money are the ones selling the shovels ), and they brought with them booze and women. So the first punters had a good time, while the clever people made money. Eventually, of course, as the clever people made fortunes and built big houses, other people arrived looking to make their fortunes too. Then, inevitably, came the wives and children. Next thing you know, the temperance league is demanding the saloons close, and the wives are clamouring to get rid of the brothels. So, where once was a wild west town where a man could drink, gamble and sleep with whores, there was only a boring mid west town that most people want to get as far away from as possible.

I'm sure you get the connection with Pattaya. Take a small fishing village near to both Bangkok and an American airbase during the Vietnam war, combine it with hundreds of lonely American troops, add in the Thai attitude to prostitution ( at that time ), and voila, the beginnings of Pattaya as it became in it's heyday of the '90s. A place for single guys to drink and sleep with women ( no gambling of course, but that was OK, as it left more money for the women ). Pretty good all round. The guys were happy, and kept coming back for more, the girls were happy as they made lots of money for their families and vet bills for sick buffalos, and the bar owners were happy as they made lots of money too. So, everybody was happy. And, innovator, around the bars and the girls grew up an infrastructure ( or your "base" ) of poor people, scraping a living by selling whatever they could to the punters. In fact, they became a pest, really, poking you in the back every 30 seconds, trying to sell whatever they imagined someone might like. Carved buffalo horns, wooden ships, belts, sarongs, T shirts, cuddly toys, food. The list is endless, and we all know the feeling of being confronted by some peasant from Issan trying to sell us some piece of cr**, and feeling guilty when we shake our head for the 50th time that night, as he probably sold his daughter to a loan shark to get the money to buy that piece of cr**. And, beyond the poor people, there were lots of better off people investing in shops, restaurants, hairdressing shops, traditional massage parlours and lately, the foot massage parlour ( never got the point on that ) etc etc. So, on the "back" of the girls and the bars grew up an entire industry dependent on enticing single guys to travel around the world to a small town on the Gulf of Thailand. ( IMO, for every person directly involved in the bar/ sex industry there are probably 10 being supported indirectly ) It was pretty much a win win situation all around, except for the poor guy who sold his daughter to make money in Pattaya, and even they seemed to do OK. Old timers might remember the guy selling "Groucho" glasses outside the Royal Garden mall. He lasted years, and of course the legless man selling flowers from a wheelchair is still on Walking Street. BUT, nothing fun lasts forever. First it was the big resorts moving in, attracting an undesirable clientel, and following them, the money men seeing an opportunity to make a bundle, if only they could get rid of those pesky bars and the women along Beach Road giving the place an undesirable reputation. I don't know why they chose Pattaya, rubbish beach, terrible roads, congestion, floods in the rainy season, sewage smell, water shortage in the dry season, etc etc. Whatever, they came, and from then on the pressure to push out the bars and the girls. Then to finish it off, scum toxin and his equally henious minion puritanical laid waste to all western nightlife in the Kingdom, reducing it to but a pale shadow of its once glorious heights. No prizes for guessing what came after; the punters seem to be coming less at the same time as the number of bars is increasing, which means, inevitably, less money between more bars and girls. All this leads to the "base" of poor people not making enough to survive on, which in turn leads to an increase in crime and so on and so on. I was there then, and the crime rate went from insignificant to a serious problem.

Now, not many people are happy in Pattaya. The punters aren't happy as prices have gone up, the bar owners aren't happy as they don't make much money, and the girls aren't happy, as customers are few and far between ( and the vet still needs paying to cure the sick buffalo ).

Once again, I can't fortell the future, but to guess, I'd say that Pattaya will become more like Hua Hin. Few bars, hidden away down side streets, more expensive prices for girls, more expensive hotels, less fun all around. I don't think the bar scene will disappear completely, but it won't be worth going to Pattaya for. The Phillipines will probably take over that side of things.

IMO, it will become a place for western and Asian package tourists.

As for the "base"; as more expensive resorts move in, I guess they'll be forced out of the more upmarket areas, becoming criminals to prey on homeowners in the suburbs. I can't see them just quietly going back to the country to live in poverty.

The one "bright spot" on the horizon ( for me ) is the current economic downturn. If that becomes a "first world" depression western tourists certainly won't be going to cr** hole Pattaya, no matter how many fancy shopping malls they build, and any depression in the west is going to wipe out China's current prosperity boom, so no more vast numbers of Asian tourists either. In that case, everything goes back to the way it was, as no depression is going to keep the real "Pattayalovers" away.

Anyway, innovator, that's how I see it.

[Lancelot]

I have never been to Pattaya and have suggested a couple of times to my Thai friends that we should go for a weekend at least so I can have a look. Outright hostile refusals from everyone.

Pattaya has a bad image. Maybe it's not justified, but that's the reality.

Pattaya is located in Thailand, but its not really "Thai".

It just is what it is

[innovator]

Great Post Thaibeachlovers!! I am sure that the city is trying to find jobs for the bar workers and other poor folks. I see job shops opening up with all kinds of job openings for massage workers, aids, home care, internet cafe workers, etc....the only problem that I can see is that if the tourists numbers continue to dip, then all of these shops and small businesses will close down and won't be able to offer jobs, along with the fact that the wages are much lower than what they make in bars and going with farang. So, their needs for money are still being unmet, along with the fact that inflation is strong and all related costs of living are going up for them too, not just tourists.

I don't mind the streets vendors or others that are trying to make a living selling crip that we don't want, but I do mind when some of them become violent and very aggressive with us. Yes, they are desparate for money and times are tough, but the city should be offering something for these folks, like a supplemental income plan.....but, we all know that this won't happen. The other option is to offer a relocation plan back upcountry. They don't want to go live on the farm again with no money, but they might not have a choice, unless all out crime is the wave of the future. If that is the case, then the streets will continue to empty out and the cycle of no tourist dollars will continue to grow. So, if they want tourist and money to flow, they will have to take care of the major waves of crime that we see exploding now on the streets. This is the primary reason why I wanted out, or at least wanted to take a long break from that place because I only see prices rising, and crime increasing, as you said in your post.

[thaibeachlovers]

Great Post Thaibeachlovers!! I am sure that the city is trying to find jobs for the bar workers and other poor folks. I see job shops opening up with all kinds of job openings for massage workers, aids, home care, internet cafe workers, etc....the only problem that I can see is that if the tourists numbers continue to dip, then all of these shops and small businesses will close down and won't be able to offer jobs, along with the fact that the wages are much lower than what they make in bars and going with farang. So, their needs for money are still being unmet, along with the fact that inflation is strong and all related costs of living are going up for them too, not just tourists. I don't mind the streets vendors or others that are trying to make a living selling crip that we don't want, but I do mind when some of them become violent and very aggressive with us. Yes, they are desparate for money and times are tough, but the city should be offering something for these folks, like a supplemental income plan.....but, we all know that this won't happen. The other option is to offer a relocation plan back upcountry. They don't want to go live on the farm again with no money, but they might not have a choice, unless all out crime is the wave of the future. If that is the case, then the streets will continue to empty out and the cycle of no tourist dollars will continue to grow. So, if they want tourist and money to flow, they will have to take care of the major waves of crime that we see exploding now on the streets. This is the primary reason why I wanted out, or at least wanted to take a long break from that place because I only see prices rising, and crime increasing, as you said in your post.

Thanks innovator, however, I doubt anyone in City Hall is concerned about the poor people. As seems to be the way in Thailand, the so called "elite" seem only to care about their own pocket, hence whenever some catastrophe happens they always bleat on about how it will affect the number of tourists coming, ie how much they will lose cashwise. The welfare of the poor does not seem to register at all. You only have to see what happened after the tsunami to know that.

I believe that the current push to upmarket Pattaya is part of a strategy to make themselves wealthy by selling expensive accomodations to rich people. The problem for them with the way things are, is that low market tourists only support low level people, the very people that you are concerned about, in jobs not directly involved in the bar/ sex industry; cheap hotel owners, traditional massage workers, restauranteurs and staff etc etc, and little of that money makes its way into the pockets of the "elite". As for the cheap package tour Asians, so far as direct input into the local economy is concerned they make little impact. You never see them in the bars, and for shopping go en mass to big places like Mike's Shopping Mall.

So, as Pattaya has a "bad reputation", the only way they can cash in is by attracting rich tourists/ retirees, and they aren't going to come with Pattaya the way it is. Hence the push to upmarket Pattaya. No doubt, there was some idea that the many poor people would happily become workers in the new hotels, malls and shops slaving for a pittance; more for the bosses.

Unfortunately for them, things haven't gone the way they hoped. For a start, many people make a LOT of money from the bar scene, and they aren't going to give it away without a struggle. So, close down one cluster of bars, and another springs up elsewhere. Now, it seems to me, there are a lot more bars in a lot more places than ever there were. Bit like what happened at Nana Plaza when puritanical made the bars close earlier, no doubt hoping they would disappear, but all that happened was a huge gaggle of girls hanging around Sukhumvit looking for clients. What was a fairly controlled scene, more or less out of sight, has become an "in your face" hooker scene all over the street.

As for the future, too many variables at the moment to guess. The world wide economic downturn will certainly have an impact. The rising cost of flying will keep many families away from not only Pattaya, but Thailand as a whole. The rapidly rising cost of living in Thailand will also have an effect, as it may force some fixed income expats to return home.

For myself, as a low average income earner, I'll still go as much as I can, but I will have to cut back spending as much as possible. The £ has fallen by 2 baht in a single week, and looks like continuing to free fall. I can only afford the same number of £ as usual, but they are going to go a lot less far than before, which means a lot of haggling, no bell ringing, no lady drinks, walking instead of baht buses, only really cheap restaurants. As I won't be the only one in that situation, you know it means a lot less cash moving around the system. No idea what the end result will be. Probably more cons and crime for a start.

[thaibeachlovers]

Great Post Thaibeachlovers!! I am sure that the city is trying to find jobs for the bar workers and other poor folks. I see job shops opening up with all kinds of job openings for massage workers, aids, home care, internet cafe workers, etc....the only problem that I can see is that if the tourists numbers continue to dip, then all of these shops and small businesses will close down and won't be able to offer jobs, along with the fact that the wages are much lower than what they make in bars and going with farang. So, their needs for money are still being unmet, along with the fact that inflation is strong and all related costs of living are going up for them too, not just tourists. I don't mind the streets vendors or others that are trying to make a living selling crip that we don't want, but I do mind when some of them become violent and very aggressive with us. Yes, they are desparate for money and times are tough, but the city should be offering something for these folks, like a supplemental income plan.....but, we all know that this won't happen. The other option is to offer a relocation plan back upcountry. They don't want to go live on the farm again with no money, but they might not have a choice, unless all out crime is the wave of the future. If that is the case, then the streets will continue to empty out and the cycle of no tourist dollars will continue to grow. So, if they want tourist and money to flow, they will have to take care of the major waves of crime that we see exploding now on the streets. This is the primary reason why I wanted out, or at least wanted to take a long break from that place because I only see prices rising, and crime increasing, as you said in your post.

Thanks innovator, however, I doubt anyone in City Hall is concerned about the poor people. As seems to be the way in Thailand, the so called "elite" seem only to care about their own pocket, hence whenever some catastrophe happens they always bleat on about how it will affect the number of tourists coming, ie how much they will lose cashwise. The welfare of the poor does not seem to register at all. You only have to see what happened after the tsunami to know that.

I believe that the current push to upmarket Pattaya is part of a strategy to make themselves wealthy by selling expensive accomodations to rich people. The problem for them with the way things are, is that low market tourists only support low level people, the very people that you are concerned about, in jobs not directly involved in the bar/ sex industry; cheap hotel owners, traditional massage workers, restauranteurs and staff etc etc, and little of that money makes its way into the pockets of the "elite". As for the cheap package tour Asians, so far as direct input into the local economy is concerned they make little impact. You never see them in the bars, and for shopping go en mass to big places like Mike's Shopping Mall.

So, as Pattaya has a "bad reputation", the only way they can cash in is by attracting rich tourists/ retirees, and they aren't going to come with Pattaya the way it is. Hence the push to upmarket Pattaya. No doubt, there was some idea that the many poor people would happily become workers in the new hotels, malls and shops slaving for a pittance; more for the bosses.

Unfortunately for them, things haven't gone the way they hoped. For a start, many people make a LOT of money from the bar scene, and they aren't going to give it away without a struggle. So, close down one cluster of bars, and another springs up elsewhere. Now, it seems to me, there are a lot more bars in a lot more places than ever there were. Bit like what happened at Nana Plaza when puritanical made the bars close earlier, no doubt hoping they would disappear, but all that happened was a huge gaggle of girls hanging around Sukhumvit looking for clients. What was a fairly controlled scene, more or less out of sight, has become an "in your face" hooker scene all over the street.

As for the future, too many variables at the moment to guess. The world wide economic downturn will certainly have an impact. The rising cost of flying will keep many families away from not only Pattaya, but Thailand as a whole. The rapidly rising cost of living in Thailand will also have an effect, as it may force some fixed income expats to return home.

For myself, as a low average income earner, I'll still go as much as I can, but I will have to cut back spending as much as possible. The £ has fallen by 2 baht in a single week, and looks like continuing to free fall. I can only afford the same number of £ as usual, but they are going to go a lot less far than before, which means a lot of haggling, no bell ringing, no lady drinks, walking instead of baht buses, only really cheap restaurants. As I won't be the only one in that situation, you know it means a lot less cash moving around the system. No idea what the end result will be. Probably more cons and crime for a start.

Make that the £ has fallen by 3bht in a week on todays exchange rates. Bummer.

[Tokay]

Pattaya is mercenary.

I've been coming here for 11 years, lived here full time for 5. It is my option to expose myself to the shitty Thais and Falang who come here to party non-stop. I can avoid it, and do as much as I can.

There are plent of good people here, but you're not going to find them mixed in with the bad people.

Prices are going up, Russians, Indians and Arabs are POURING in more than ever. However I'm reading that there is less money being spent here. Go figure.

I'm not always happy here, but for now it serves it purpose and it really does have anything you need short of a clean beach. Though I don't plan to live here forever, I have a few more years here.

One thing is for sure... Pattaya is ALWAYS changing and always will continue to change.

[innovator]

Tokay wrote: Prices are going up, Russians, Indians and Arabs are POURING in more than ever. (Yet another reason to get out).

So, it seems as if the structured and semi-controlled sin city is now turning into a chaotic and out of control sin city/family resort.

Prices should come down as the global economy slows and these folks become more and more dire, but it is hard for them to fall back or discount their prices as they are used to getting more and more, spoiled in the past several years.

Instead of settling for less and such, they seem to be heading towards criminal behavior to make up for the shortfalls. Many of them have leased motorbikes, rented new apartments and charged items on credit or borrowed money that they cannot repay. So, stealing gold chains on the streets, pickpocketing, robbing, breaking into homes and so forth seems to be the current method of survival.

It is a shame that something that was so good before is now broken. (if it ain't broken, then don't fix it). But, the powers that be decided to break it up, run out the long-stay farang and invite so called high quality Arabs, Russians and Indians in to spend the big ruppees. Good luck. And, as we all know, I have never seen any Chinese tour bus stop over at the small soi to do their laundry, check email, buy chicken and rice and donate money to poor folks on the streets before heading off to the boat/island group tour and then back to their designated hotel room. Nor have I seen any Arabs or Indians walking around the streets supporting the local, small businesses. They tend to hang out on the beach or in the VC zone.

So, good luck. Now, I totally understand why the owner of the place that I was staying at was begging me not to leave. They will miss our money and other good things that westerners bring to the party.

Edited August 15, 2008 by innovator

[kedawi]

I have never been to Pattaya and have suggested a couple of times to my Thai friends that we should go for a weekend at least so I can have a look. Outright hostile refusals from everyone.

Pattaya has a bad image. Maybe it's not justified, but that's the reality.

Pattaya is located in Thailand, but its not really "Thai".

It just is what it is

Pattaya is typical 100% Thai!

[britmaveric]

Pattaya is Thailand and Thailand is Pattaya.

[Mobi]

you are right there mate,its nothing like pattaya city.your area gets burgled regular and mine doesnt.jsut be careful on the darkside with all those friendly and honest people.

Assuming your area is in Pattaya city, that's got to be the biggest joke of the thread so far. For every burglary or crime on the Darkside, there has got to be at least 10 times that number in the City. I'm sure a breeze through any of the local rags will confirm my view.

As many have said before me, there's no place in the world that is crime free, and up to recently the level of crime in Pattaya was probably lower than in many of the worlds resorts and major cities. However I am sure it starting to to change for the worse as the number of tourists dwindle, and the number of Thais who depend on tourists, one way or another - start to get desperate.

The Darkside is truly different to Pattaya proper, but I have no doubt that it won't suit everyone's lifestyle, and there is n point in debating this further, as we all have pour personal views.

The main problem that we have out here is that it is becoming so popular that construction still seems to be booming, and a lot of itinerant labourers have come into the area to work in that sector. I am sure it is from these elements that most of the recent burglaries have been perpetrated.

The point I was trying to make in my post is that wherever you live, you should ensure that your home is properly secured and protected. It's as simple as that.

[kedawi]

"I'm sure a breeze through any of the local rags will confirm my view." - you don't want to elieve everything you read in the papers.

If I was a burglar or house breaker, I'd DEFINITELY work on the houses on the dark side....so much easier to do!

[Mobi]

"I'm sure a breeze through any of the local rags will confirm my view." - you don't want to elieve everything you read in the papers.

If I was a burglar or house breaker, I'd DEFINITELY work on the houses on the dark side....so much easier to do!

So all the crime reported in the papers, ably reported by Lybia etc. in the press clippings and reported on the local cable and radio stations is a complete work of fiction is it? They just make it all up for our amusement do they? and fake pictures, and invent interviews with victims and police?

Come on get real - you seem to be in denial.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not a criminal. If you were, you may well got to the Darkside to pursue your illegal ends. But most of these criminals are the 'stateless' itinerants, drug addicts, pimps. motorcyle taxi drivers etc, a vast majority of whom live or exist in the City, and never venture out my way. They will only rob in their local neighbourhood. It's the same the world over, most criminals are pretty stupid and only feel comfortable in their own territory, which is why it is often and easy matter to catch them.

If you read what I wrote, you would understand that I was writing about an influx of labourers who have taken up residence in cheap hong tows and shacks on the darkside to perform local construction work and who are almost certainly the source for many of the robberies. In any event these people are living here - they are not coming from Pattaya, but are much smaller in number than those in the City proper.

Maybe you should start a new trend?

Edited August 15, 2008 by Mobi

[wileycoyote]

I read this post & I get more depressed.

Pattaya has lots to offer ,the sooner TAT/Police/Government decides to reduce the negatives ,the better the resort

[Chaimai]

Pattaya has lots to offer .......

Yes it does. But I think one should accept that it's negatives are as inflated as, and proportionate to, the positives.

Without the controls/improvements you rightly seek, I fear the negatives will continue to out-grow the positives which tend to be constant.

[thaiman]

I agree that crime is everywhere....but in your face type of touts and crime is not running rampant everywhere, but seems to be out of control in Pattaya city, tourist areas (beach road, 2nd road, 3rd road, South Pattaya and soi 17).

Some close calls for me....an accident at the intersection and a Thai man brandishing a gun and quickly tucking it into his back pocket as I walked on by....I wonder, what was he up to??? I don't remember coming into visual contact, face to face with a gunman ever.

I am sure that some areas in England and America, ya da ya da yada have crime, but this seems to be a nightly occurence in a small area. Pattaya is small compared to L.A. or South St. Louis, so it is hard to say that crime is everywhere. It is not really comparing apples to apples. Pattaya has daily crime and it is spreading and increasing in such a small area. Hard to compare that to the size of L.A., Flint Michigan or some other mamouth cities like Detroit. So, if you put the size into perspective, along with the fact that Pattaya is billed and marketed as a family/holiday/paradise resort, then it does not meet up to this expectation. Nobody is marketing or advertising for people to come holiday or live in Watts/Flint/S. Chicago/S. St. Louis, or any other dangerous area.

So, we need to look at Pattaya as an individual case and cannot compare it to industrial and commercial hubs, or major cities in the west. Pattaya is suppoed to be a prestine, lovely family resort in Asia...according to the T.A.T. and the marketing brochures. But, it seems that it has more than it's fair share of gang related crime and other criminal elements.

If they can clean it up, which they are trying to do, then it could become a nice city.

The greedy people have been trying to change Pattaya to a family oriented place for well over 10 years now, no doubt so they can make lots of moolah, but, innovator, get the reality, since the 70's it's always been a place for booze, girls ( boys/ ladyboys ) and sex. No amount of marketing can change that!

Ironically, the crime only started to get bad AFTER Toxin and his sidekick Puritanical tried to destroy Thailands western nightlife by cutting down bar opening hours and making GoGo girls cover up etc etc. I was in Pattaya before and after, so I do know what it was like.

It's a conundrum; we'd all like the traffic to get sorted, and the criminals to go away, but at the moment, they're all that keep the capitalist swine from turning Pattaya into yet another cr***y family resort town, like Hua Hin. So on the balance, given the choice of a nice city with families and few girls, high prices, like so many towns in Thailand, or Pattaya the way it is, I'll keep the latter.

well put! only greed is changing pattaya. it's still a crap hole and hopefully it stays that way. All those that want to make a pattaya into a safe little resort town with high prices are really lame. go elsewhere to find your little "safe" haven. keep pattaya for the crooks, hooks, and sin seekers.

[thaiman]

Pattaya is billed and marketed as a family/holiday/paradise resort, then it does not meet up to this expectation.

Of course it doesn't. What in this country does? This is thailand! Amazing Thailand!

"Oh Thais are so friendly and nice and smiley and they like us farang people"

Get a clue people!

[kedawi]

"I'm sure a breeze through any of the local rags will confirm my view." - you don't want to elieve everything you read in the papers.

If I was a burglar or house breaker, I'd DEFINITELY work on the houses on the dark side....so much easier to do!

So all the crime reported in the papers, ably reported by Lybia etc. in the press clippings and reported on the local cable and radio stations is a complete work of fiction is it? They just make it all up for our amusement do they? and fake pictures, and invent interviews with victims and police?

Come on get real - you seem to be in denial.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not a criminal. If you were, you may well got to the Darkside to pursue your illegal ends. But most of these criminals are the 'stateless' itinerants, drug addicts, pimps. motorcyle taxi drivers etc, a vast majority of whom live or exist in the City, and never venture out my way. They will only rob in their local neighbourhood. It's the same the world over, most criminals are pretty stupid and only feel comfortable in their own territory, which is why it is often and easy matter to catch them.

If you read what I wrote, you would understand that I was writing about an influx of labourers who have taken up residence in cheap hong tows and shacks on the darkside to perform local construction work and who are almost certainly the source for many of the robberies. In any event these people are living here - they are not coming from Pattaya, but are much smaller in number than those in the City proper.

Maybe you should start a new trend?

I think you should re-assess your appreciation of the media and how it works - especially the "news" reporting in or about Pattaya. You need to get things in proprtion and not make sweeping judgments either about reported events or people you don't really know. It won't change Pattaya, but it wil de-stress your life.

[Naam]

"Oh Thais are so friendly and nice and smiley and they like us farang people" Get a clue people!

no need to tell us. we farangs know that all Thais like us.

[Mobi]

I think you should re-assess your appreciation of the media and how it works - especially the "news" reporting in or about Pattaya. You need to get things in proprtion and not make sweeping judgments either about reported events or people you don't really know. It won't change Pattaya, but it wil de-stress your life.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea where you are coming from.

We get reports of robberies, muggings, break-ins, rapes murders, shootings, drug busts, 'suicides' every day , many of which are repeated in all 3 or 4 of the local press and reported on Sophon and Banglamung Cable TV and also in the news reports on English language radio. So all the media are all getting together and making up these crime stories, and hiring actors to pretend to be victims and corpses are they? Even if some of it is exaggerated ore untrue, no sensible person can deny there is a lot of crime in our fair city, and that it is on the increase.

I'm making sweeping judgements? I think not - I say it as I see it.

I repeat - your are the one in denial - for what reason I know not. Maybe you have property to sell

"People I don't really know"? Well I've personally known enough crime victims (Thai and farang) in the past 3 years ( including a couple who have been murdered) to lend some credibility to the stories I hear about daily.

Stressful life? Hardly. That's why I have a peaceful, idyllic life on the darkside, in a beautiful, secure house with my wife and family, and away from all the mayhem.

Methinks thou doest protest too much. If you are happy in crime ridden Pattaya, then fair enough - each to his own, but don't try to tell me that it the crime doesn't exists because that is just rank nonsense, and you know it.

[kedawi]

I think you should re-assess your appreciation of the media and how it works - especially the "news" reporting in or about Pattaya. You need to get things in proprtion and not make sweeping judgments either about reported events or people you don't really know. It won't change Pattaya, but it wil de-stress your life.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea where you are coming from.

We get reports of robberies, muggings, break-ins, rapes murders, shootings, drug busts, 'suicides' every day , many of which are repeated in all 3 or 4 of the local press and reported on Sophon and Banglamung Cable TV and also in the news reports on English language radio. So all the media are all getting together and making up these crime stories, and hiring actors to pretend to be victims and corpses are they? Even if some of it is exaggerated ore untrue, no sensible person can deny there is a lot of crime in our fair city, and that it is on the increase.

I'm making sweeping judgements? I think not - I say it as I see it.

I repeat - your are the one in denial - for what reason I know not. Maybe you have property to sell

"People I don't really know"? Well I've personally known enough crime victims (Thai and farang) in the past 3 years ( including a couple who have been murdered) to lend some credibility to the stories I hear about daily.

Stressful life? Hardly. That's why I have a peaceful, idyllic life on the darkside, in a beautiful, secure house with my wife and family, and away from all the mayhem.

Methinks thou doest protest too much. If you are happy in crime ridden Pattaya, then fair enough - each to his own, but don't try to tell me that it the crime doesn't exists because that is just rank nonsense, and you know it.

"I'm sorry, but I have no idea where you are coming from."

Yep, I'd agree with that!