Labour Government’s Bold Claim to “honesty with voters” Has Unraveled Quickly

[NoSpeakIt]

OK first of all let me just say that I do have a fair share of Chula-graduated friends and most of them are a pretty sane bunch (right, Namizon? Korbua?).

But then there's another group of people that breathe and live the pink pride. It pains me. And what I hate more is their tendency to try to convert people around them to have the same ideas and opinions.

It's like almost like cult.

What sparked me to write about this post? I just went to Chamchuri Square to check it out for BK and it wasn't a kind of experience I would like to relive again (http://www.bkmagazine.com/blog/alisara-chi...heery-chamchuri). It was a pure example of the kind of people representing the Chula stereotype. Traditional and uptight.

But anyway as I got off the Sam Yan MRT, I realized that I have landed in the Chula turf, thanks to the pink tiles, symbols and colors that are decorating the walls of the station. I didn't have to wait for long for a gigantic sign saying "This property is built upon the Chulalongkorn land" to appear. Yes, we know.

Don't you think Chula is such a vain institution?

As I grew up in a pretty traditional Thai environment where every family member was educated in the Chula umbrella in one way or another, I was surrounded by the Chula mentality all my life. The mentality that requires you to NOT think outside the box, to not defy the powers of the adults and to always know my place and be aware of the fact that since the days you opened your eyes your future was already set in stones not by just your parents but aunts and uncles, grand and great grandparents.

I have always been the odd one in my family. I was never in the family's systematic series of education. Everyone else did. You have to start your education at Chitlada and continue your university in Chula. Peroid.

What did I do? I went to a Catholic school, then into a Brit system and ended up in a private university. Boy were they pissed when they saw that my university did not require me to wear ridiculous white shoes and skirts covering my ankles.

When I was in my second year in ABAC I was called in by my great grandmother to discuss "my future". She sat me down, while I was wearing my university uniform, and she went, "So when are you going to get into Chula?" I got so pissed. If she wasn't tiny, old, and my own great grand mother, I would have punched her in the face.

The rumor had it that the reason why I was in ABAC was because I wasn't smart enough to get into Chula. Right. Like the Rote-learning style of exam would improve my braincell count. I CHOSE ABAC, solely because I did not want to be sucked into the system that I loathe. The system where uniforms for university students were not enough, you still have to follow a strict dresscode that makes you look like you just stepped out of a 1950s poster. The same system that the way you tie your hair or the way you dress OUTSIDE the university perimeter can also decide whether or not you will get your degree. It's the same system where teachers should be revered and feared like gods and where your involvement in abusive freshman hazing has a say whether or not you will go through your four years of college as an invisible person of no importance.

Funniest thing is, I heard about all these rules and "customs" from real life Chula graduates and yet they spoke of these with such utmost love and respect.

My cousin posed in a swimsuit for a magazine once and she almost got suspended. A friend did not wear proper white shoes as stated by the university and she had to write an essay about it. And all this happened in the 21st century.

OK, Chula is the first university in Thailand, named after a king, has bred nation's finest and has the best educational facilities and resources the country could ask for.

But there's a difference between being traditional and outdated and they should start acknowledging it.

But then again if people are still raising their children under this mentality, like the "traditional side" of family, it will never be out of the cycle.

Oh well, at least I never got in.

LINK --- > http://gnarlykitty.blogspot.com/

[girlx]

i don't know anything about chula but your rant sounds amusingly familiar to those of some ivy league students in the US... nice job on your blog by the way and interesting to see a BK writer on here!

[NoSpeakIt]

its not mine

its someone elses article i just posted it

link at end

[girlx]

oh, i see- got excited for nothing

Edited August 1, 2008 by girlx

[anthonyu]

I attended Chula but wasn't exposed to the Thai side really since I was doing my masters at the time and it was an international program. Respecting the professors was a good idea but not compulsory and we got aways with it. Towards the end of the course I was wearing shorts to class and nothing was said.

In the end, Chula's an institution just like any other. Its got its norms and traditions and alumni. The important word here is "alumni". You'll find most major universities derive a large portion of their funding from alumni contributions. So ligically, the university has to pander to where the money is coming from which means giving your great grandmother and the rest of your family what they want to see which is obviously, students who are proud to and committed to the Chula course and set a good examplefor the rest of society to follow which they can then take and tell their friends "see that? I went there and helped make it what it is today". Its all ego but not always coming from the university itself.

You're proud to be from ABAC and that's a good thing. If you're ever in the position where you'll contribute to have a building named after you one day you'll probably want the university to be promoting an atmosphere where the students are encouraged to be creative and to think outside of the box. Basically after all this ranting all i'm trying to say is "Money Talks" and you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[bkkjames]

I attended Chula but wasn't exposed to the Thai side really since I was doing my masters at the time and it was an international program. Respecting the professors was a good idea but not compulsory and we got aways with it. Towards the end of the course I was wearing shorts to class and nothing was said.

In the end, Chula's an institution just like any other. Its got its norms and traditions and alumni. The important word here is "alumni". You'll find most major universities derive a large portion of their funding from alumni contributions. So ligically, the university has to pander to where the money is coming from which means giving your great grandmother and the rest of your family what they want to see which is obviously, students who are proud to and committed to the Chula course and set a good examplefor the rest of society to follow which they can then take and tell their friends "see that? I went there and helped make it what it is today". Its all ego but not always coming from the university itself.

You're proud to be from ABAC and that's a good thing. If you're ever in the position where you'll contribute to have a building named after you one day you'll probably want the university to be promoting an atmosphere where the students are encouraged to be creative and to think outside of the box. Basically after all this ranting all i'm trying to say is "Money Talks" and you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Firstly, your post sounds a bit like jealousy or sour grapes.

However, about Chula there are a few observations I can make. For the most part, Chula is an 'old boys' network of rich families (yes there are exeptions) that in general is producing graduates that how do I say politely, feel as if they are a cut above.

When conducting job interviews with Chula / Tamm grads, it often appears that they feel because they have graduated from 'the' university, their job is done and they should automatically be put into positions of manager. I am sure many other TV members have interviewed / hired these types who often at the first moment of 'a tough day at the office', resign because they don't need it.

Of course there are exeptions but I know many a MD who would rather hire an ABAC grad (or similar) over one of the so-called name universities because of their willingness and desire to work.

Regarding school pride, it's a bit sad in a way that for many, the mere fact of attending and graduating from a 'big name' university will be their greatest achievment in life, beyond marrying into money and spending their days ordering around the maid in between trips to the mall, spa etc.

It kind of reminds me of a scene from the movie "Scent of a woman" wherein Al Pacino is on stage taking a strip off the back of a Uni rector..."Baird, Baird Baird, producing the leaders of tomorrow,,,,be careful of the types of leaders you are producing here" or similar.

For the record, my wife is a Chula Grad (scholorship, not money). For the first year or two after graduation, she had a hard time getting the 'I am a Chula grad mentality' out of her brain. Thankfully, she woke up to the reality of life and career and family because she doesn't have a "Golden" daddy to run to when she is having a tough day at the office.

While I am proud of her achievment, it wouldn't have made a bit of difference if she graduated from Harvard, Chula, Oxford or XYZ Technical School.

In the end, just because you don't where pink slippers, doesn't mean you can't sleep in satin sheets .

[anthonyu]

Firstly, your post sounds a bit like jealousy or sour grapes.

Hi bkkjames,

Are you quoting me or the OP? Don't really see how I could be feeling jealous since I've experienced both sides and appreciate the benefits they bring.

Agree with you that Chula is an old boys network, one which I fully make use of but don't partake in. That might change down the line since you have to give a little to get some. On the same note, there are universities (and high schools) around the world that produce graduates with the same mentality - Oxford, Cambridge, Eton. If you can get in to those places, make it work to your advantage and if not, then find another way. I'm glad the OP likes to think outside the box because Thailand needs more people like this.

[bkkjames]

Firstly, your post sounds a bit like jealousy or sour grapes.

Hi bkkjames,

Are you quoting me or the OP? Don't really see how I could be feeling jealous since I've experienced both sides and appreciate the benefits they bring.

Agree with you that Chula is an old boys network, one which I fully make use of but don't partake in. That might change down the line since you have to give a little to get some. On the same note, there are universities (and high schools) around the world that produce graduates with the same mentality - Oxford, Cambridge, Eton. If you can get in to those places, make it work to your advantage and if not, then find another way. I'm glad the OP likes to think outside the box because Thailand needs more people like this.

The OP mate, sorry.

[Groongthep]

anthonyu and bkkjames,

The OP, NoSpeakIt, has posted this story from the blog of a writer from BK magazine. He is not the one who wrote it and he did not attend ABAC.

[NoSpeakIt]

man you guys are dense

the title of the thread alone should clearly show i am not the writer

[bkkjames]

man you guys are dense

the title of the thread alone should clearly show i am not the writer

Whatever, my thoughts regarding the topic remain the same, whoever wrote it, duh. Now, let me go search the letters to the editor section of the bangok post so i can cut and paste it into a new topic.

[anthonyu]

man you guys are dense

the title of the thread alone should clearly show i am not the writer

Sorry mate didn't read the title properly. Its early in the morning and my brain's not switched on yet...especially after last night and having to watch lines go up and down on a screen all morning. Just assume I replied to the author of the article instead then

[teacup]

Not me, I know you “nospeakit” couldn’t possibly write like that.

Ok back to the op - just some comments from me

Nothing that interesting or worth mesmerizing about the article. I’m neither a Chula graduate, nor I think I would be able to get in anyway. But the mentality of a Chula graduate is not that much different from many students of any ivy league around the world. Many cases it seems like they’ve never left the school …even yeeeaaaaars after they had graduated. They often breath and talk about the good old school days in almost every conversations and everywhere they go. They are so attached to their good old days so much that….if you just take a peek into their living room - you will see the 3000dpi of their diploma or their life size graduation picture on the wall staring down at you ………-just so freaaaaky sometimes.

I’m not jealous of those Chula graduates, but hey….at the end of the day, it’s all come down to whether you can do the job well or not. So far I still have a good job, good pay, working for my own, and very happy with my “not so chula” choice of school. Now I’m ready to paste all my tax receipts all over my living room wall representing all my achievements all these years, I think my mom and network of friends will be more impressed with that for sure.

[CWMcMurray]

I have to say I have known some people in similar situatuations as the person who wrote this article.

By that I mean that they are younger Thais who are willing to think critically and not accept everything that they are told.

In some ways they have it tougher than us foreigners, they are expected to fit into and work within the limits of the "cultural box"; they are not given the leeway to think that many of us foreigners are allowed in Thai society.

I have one friend who told me that she regrets going to school overseas because it has been very difficult in many ways when she came back...

That being said, I think the more people like this that exist in Thailand the brighter the country's future will be... as long as they are not broken down and remolded into what their elders want them to be.

We have to realize that these are the people who will bring change to the country not us foreigners.

Edited August 1, 2008 by CWMcMurray

[Maizefarmer]

OK first of all let me just say that I do have a fair share of Chula-graduated friends and most of them are a pretty sane bunch (right, Namizon? Korbua?).

But then there's another group of people that breathe and live the pink pride. It pains me. And what I hate more is their tendency to try to convert people around them to have the same ideas and opinions.

It's like almost like cult.

What sparked me to write about this post? I just went to Chamchuri Square to check it out for BK and it wasn't a kind of experience I would like to relive again (http://www.bkmagazine.com/blog/alisara-chi...heery-chamchuri). It was a pure example of the kind of people representing the Chula stereotype. Traditional and uptight.

But anyway as I got off the Sam Yan MRT, I realized that I have landed in the Chula turf, thanks to the pink tiles, symbols and colors that are decorating the walls of the station. I didn't have to wait for long for a gigantic sign saying "This property is built upon the Chulalongkorn land" to appear. Yes, we know.

Don't you think Chula is such a vain institution?

As I grew up in a pretty traditional Thai environment where every family member was educated in the Chula umbrella in one way or another, I was surrounded by the Chula mentality all my life. The mentality that requires you to NOT think outside the box, to not defy the powers of the adults and to always know my place and be aware of the fact that since the days you opened your eyes your future was already set in stones not by just your parents but aunts and uncles, grand and great grandparents.

I have always been the odd one in my family. I was never in the family's systematic series of education. Everyone else did. You have to start your education at Chitlada and continue your university in Chula. Peroid.

What did I do? I went to a Catholic school, then into a Brit system and ended up in a private university. Boy were they pissed when they saw that my university did not require me to wear ridiculous white shoes and skirts covering my ankles.

When I was in my second year in ABAC I was called in by my great grandmother to discuss "my future". She sat me down, while I was wearing my university uniform, and she went, "So when are you going to get into Chula?" I got so pissed. If she wasn't tiny, old, and my own great grand mother, I would have punched her in the face.

The rumor had it that the reason why I was in ABAC was because I wasn't smart enough to get into Chula. Right. Like the Rote-learning style of exam would improve my braincell count. I CHOSE ABAC, solely because I did not want to be sucked into the system that I loathe. The system where uniforms for university students were not enough, you still have to follow a strict dresscode that makes you look like you just stepped out of a 1950s poster. The same system that the way you tie your hair or the way you dress OUTSIDE the university perimeter can also decide whether or not you will get your degree. It's the same system where teachers should be revered and feared like gods and where your involvement in abusive freshman hazing has a say whether or not you will go through your four years of college as an invisible person of no importance.

Funniest thing is, I heard about all these rules and "customs" from real life Chula graduates and yet they spoke of these with such utmost love and respect.

My cousin posed in a swimsuit for a magazine once and she almost got suspended. A friend did not wear proper white shoes as stated by the university and she had to write an essay about it. And all this happened in the 21st century.

OK, Chula is the first university in Thailand, named after a king, has bred nation's finest and has the best educational facilities and resources the country could ask for.

But there's a difference between being traditional and outdated and they should start acknowledging it.

But then again if people are still raising their children under this mentality, like the "traditional side" of family, it will never be out of the cycle.

Oh well, at least I never got in.

LINK --- > http://gnarlykitty.blogspot.com/

... yes yes Chula is a bit "snotty" - but thats the case with most countries top Uni's - you see it with Yale and Harvard in the USA, with Oxford and Cambridge in the UK.

But I wouldn't equate that or the persuance of traditions and customs to being "outdated" - and conformity is part of life. All institutions, businesses and enterprizes expect their members to conform to some set of rules and regulations. The choice is yours - if one doesn't like the rules and isn;t comforatble conforming to them, fine - move on elsewhere.

[nidhogg]

When I was in my second year in ABAC I was called in by my great grandmother to discuss "my future". She sat me down, while I was wearing my university uniform, and she went, "So when are you going to get into Chula?" I got so pissed. If she wasn't tiny, old, and my own great grand mother, I would have punched her in the face.

Lovely. Simply lovely. The author of this article should be ashamed (and yes, I follow that it is not "nospeakIt').

The whole thing simply reeks of jealousy. The old "I could have gone there if I had wanted". Yeah. Right.

[bkkjames]

Dear Nid:

Did you go to Chula by chance?

[cloudhopper]

The author of this article should be ashamed

Applauded rather IMO for sharing an honest, interesting and insightful point of view.

One need look no further than the current US president to see a striking example of a graduate from a top university displaying a shocking lack of education.

[roamer]

Might be worth remembering that while Chula is Thailands top Uni it is ranked only 223 in the world. You might critcise the methodology but I doubt its that biased that this is not a decent ballpark figure. It would seem that whilst it might share some of the exclusivity of Harvard & Oxford and others the comparisons end there.

Top 400 Universities

[NoSpeakIt]

its amazing how many japanese universities make the list despite the small size of japan.

looking at the website, i was surprised at how cheap tuition is there for thais and farang students.

Edited August 1, 2008 by NoSpeakIt

[bkkjames]

its amazing how many japanese universities make the list despite the small size of japan.

looking at the website, i was surprised at how cheap tuition is there for thais and farang students.

It just goes to show you that size isn't everything

Good things come in small packages

Better to have a big brain than a small d*ck

Two heads are better than one

[roamer]

its amazing how many japanese universities make the list despite the small size of japan.

looking at the website, i was surprised at how cheap tuition is there for thais and farang students.

Are you really amazed ? This is Japan after all and I can't think of another nation that puts a higher priority on education, Tokyo is comparatively pricey at $5K per year for both international and domestic students, Kobe actually charges international students lessthan domestic students at $2k, not many places in the world where that happens, Chula would be @$11K and that would account partly for the small amount of international students there, a lot cheaper for domestic students but everything I have learnt about the place, including meeting many of its graduates, is that it functions as much as a social club as a uni.

You can level that accusation against places like Yale, Harvard, Oxford etc but its their solid academic achievements that put them where they are.

Mind you TIT, Abhisit (Democrat Leader) is an Oxford man and that alone probably rules him out for ever being Thai enough to lead the nation.

Edited August 1, 2008 by roamer

[Jimjim]

I've seen similar ratings for Thailand like the 400 worldwide someone posted above. This last year Chula wasn't tops, I think it was Mahidol or another school.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Jimjim

[DP25]

its amazing how many japanese universities make the list despite the small size of japan.

Japan's not that small. 130 million people, tenth most populous country in the world. The only rich country that has more people than Japan is the USA, so I'd expect lots of Japanese universities to be ranked high.

[MiG16]

Im a bit lost....whats being discussed here?

merits of education system?

how thai universities compare with other countries?

how private uni in thailand compare with public universities?

[roamer]

Im a bit lost....whats being discussed here?

merits of education system?

how thai universities compare with other countries?

how private uni in thailand compare with public universities?

Yes we have digressed somewhat I suppose, aside from which it seems far too balanced and reasonable to continue any further, so not Thaivisa

[NoSpeakIt]

its amazing how many japanese universities make the list despite the small size of japan.

Japan's not that small. 130 million people, tenth most populous country in the world. The only rich country that has more people than Japan is the USA, so I'd expect lots of Japanese universities to be ranked high.

sorry, i did not realize japan had that many citizens.