Apec Card

[sfifred]

As a holder of a APEC Business card and a Director of a Thai Compnay with a paid up capital of 50m Baht, does the Card allow one to work at that company for a period of weeks or months?

I would have thought that this would be possible as the reason for a APEC Card wouldn't be to visit on holidays!!!

Look forward to some answers.

SFIFRED

[Soutpeel]

Dont think so...you need a work permit...dont know the specifics of the APEC card, but seeing as paying THB 1.5 million for a Thai Elite card doesnt give you the right to work in Thailand either, highly unlikely the APEC card will give you the right

[midas]

As a holder of a APEC Business card and a Director of a Thai Compnay with a paid up capital of 50m Baht, does the Card allow one to work at that company for a period of weeks or months?

I would have thought that this would be possible as the reason for a APEC Card wouldn't be to visit on holidays!!!

Look forward to some answers.

SFIFRED

As a holder of the card also I can tell you categorically you do not qualify through this

for a work permit and so it DOES NOT ALLOW you to work in Thailand !

You are only allowed periods of up to 90 days to conduct buisness.

[Dork]

I think this is something of a moot point in the absence of a clearly defined difference between "work" and "conducting business".

For example the usual definition of "work" (by the labour dept or immigration) is something like "exerting effort" and/or "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". In my opinion that would clearly include "conducting business".

If that is the case then there are thousands of people openly breaking the law every day including executives of multinational companies.

The ABTC card (APEC Business Travellers Card) allows entry into Thailand for a period of 90 days clearly for the purpose of conducting business. So what exactly does that mean? Can you act as a shareholder? A director? Advise subsidiary companies?

Or do you need a work permit for those things even though entry on the card does not qualify you to apply?

I have never seen a satisfactory answer to this question & it would seem to be another area of gray law in Thailand whereby authorites can choose to ignore you or take action against you - whichever is in their favour.

[midas]

I think this is something of a moot point in the absence of a clearly defined difference between "work" and "conducting business".

For example the usual definition of "work" (by the labour dept or immigration) is something like "exerting effort" and/or "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". In my opinion that would clearly include "conducting business".

If that is the case then there are thousands of people openly breaking the law every day including executives of multinational companies.

The ABTC card (APEC Business Travellers Card) allows entry into Thailand for a period of 90 days clearly for the purpose of conducting business. So what exactly does that mean? Can you act as a shareholder? A director? Advise subsidiary companies?

Or do you need a work permit for those things even though entry on the card does not qualify you to apply?

I have never seen a satisfactory answer to this question & it would seem to be another area of gray law in Thailand whereby authorites can choose to ignore you or take action against you - whichever is in their favour.

Dork I think the differentiation between work and carrying out business seems

perfectly clear to me ! Working implies that you are remaining here in Thailand

on a long-term basis and that you may even be on the payroll of an employer

based in this country. Therefore this implies there is some permanence regarding

the position whereas carrying out business for the 90 day period allowed

under the APEC card implies you are working here for an employer based outside

this country and there is no degree of permanence regarding your stay here.

But I must also say I was somewhat surprised that the OP even asked this

question in the first place given he / she is a card holder because the the Application

Form for the APEC card clearly states " You must NOT engage in any paid

employment when travelling when using your APEC business travel card "

[kiakaha]

As a holder of a APEC Business card and a Director of a Thai Compnay with a paid up capital of 50m Baht, does the Card allow one to work at that company for a period of weeks or months?

I would have thought that this would be possible as the reason for a APEC Card wouldn't be to visit on holidays!!!

Look forward to some answers.

SFIFRED

i have an apec card.

i work in thailand and have a work permit.

i basically only use the apec card in thailand to utilise the diplomat lanes at the airport.

for short business trips, meetings, seminars etc... you can come in on your apec card and not get a wp. no eyebrows raised.

but if thailand is your regular place of work you'd be foolish not to get a work permit(surely something a director of a thai company could do easily)

note : you CANT get a work permit if you enter on your APEC card clearance...you need to enter on a Non Imm Visa.

[Dork]

I think this is something of a moot point in the absence of a clearly defined difference between "work" and "conducting business".

For example the usual definition of "work" (by the labour dept or immigration) is something like "exerting effort" and/or "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits". In my opinion that would clearly include "conducting business".

If that is the case then there are thousands of people openly breaking the law every day including executives of multinational companies.

The ABTC card (APEC Business Travellers Card) allows entry into Thailand for a period of 90 days clearly for the purpose of conducting business. So what exactly does that mean? Can you act as a shareholder? A director? Advise subsidiary companies?

Or do you need a work permit for those things even though entry on the card does not qualify you to apply?

I have never seen a satisfactory answer to this question & it would seem to be another area of gray law in Thailand whereby authorites can choose to ignore you or take action against you - whichever is in their favour.

Dork I think the differentiation between work and carrying out business seems

perfectly clear to me ! Working implies that you are remaining here in Thailand

on a long-term basis and that you may even be on the payroll of an employer

based in this country. Therefore this implies there is some permanence regarding

the position whereas carrying out business for the 90 day period allowed

under the APEC card implies you are working here for an employer based outside

this country and there is no degree of permanence regarding your stay here.

But I must also say I was somewhat surprised that the OP even asked this

question in the first place given he / she is a card holder because the the Application

Form for the APEC card clearly states " You must NOT engage in any paid

employment when travelling when using your APEC business travel card "

I agree, it would seem pretty obvious that you cannot take up paid employment in Thailand simply with an ABTC card. What I was trying to say is that whether someone enters Thailand (intending to conduct business) using the card or not, it is a moot point because what does & what does not define "work" in the eyes of the Thai government is not clearly defined.

I am glad that you say "I think the differentiation between work and carrying out business seems perfectly clear to me!" because obviously you will be able to answer the following:

If one is a shareholder or represents shareholders in a Thai limited company and attends meetings in the office of that company, though not paid by that company, is that working or conducting business?

Can one go to that office in that capacity all day, every day for (lets say) 90 days?

If yes, how many times can one repeat the 90 days?

If no, exactly how many days can one be there & how often before you are breaking the law & subject to arrest?

[Dork]

As a holder of a APEC Business card and a Director of a Thai Compnay with a paid up capital of 50m Baht, does the Card allow one to work at that company for a period of weeks or months?

I would have thought that this would be possible as the reason for a APEC Card wouldn't be to visit on holidays!!!

Look forward to some answers.

SFIFRED

Anyway rather than squabbling, I should try to offer some kind of answer to the original question from the OP.

I have recently come up against exactly the same issues concerning one of my fellow (non Thai based) directors in a Thai company. The advice I received from our THB8000/hr lawyer was this.

Without a work permit, though you can be a director you cannot sign anything in the capacity of a director while physically in Thailand. Obviously you cannot receive any remuneration from that company while in Thailand either.

On the question of whether you can work at that company for a period of weeks or months as a director but without a work permit. the answer was "hmmm, the labour law is not clear about that" "It will probably be no problem"

My advice would be if you intend to do it, don't get into any disputes with your Thai partners while here because one day it might suddenly be not ok.

[sfifred]

Hi All

Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify, I don't have Thai partners so they won't be an issue. Also I am not being paid by my Thai company. just going into the Office / Factory and conducting the normal meetings etc etc. I don't generally stay any longer then a week although once a year this may go to four weeks.

sfifred

[KamnanT]

As a holder of a APEC Business card and a Director of a Thai Compnay with a paid up capital of 50m Baht, does the Card allow one to work at that company for a period of weeks or months?

I would have thought that this would be possible as the reason for a APEC Card wouldn't be to visit on holidays!!!

Look forward to some answers.

SFIFRED

The question of whether someone is "working" or simply "attending business meetings" is a relevant one not just in Thailand. My employer sends many Thai staff to the US for meetings, training, work experience and other purposes. If they are "attending meetings", then a B-1/B-2 is sufficient, but if they are considered to be "working" or getting "on-the-job" experience, then a different visa class (eg. J-1, L-1) is required. Making this determination is not always clear cut - when does a "meeting" become "working on a project together"?

The ABTC allows entry similar to a Non-Immigrant "B": permitted stay up to 90 days and purpose of trip is business (as opposed to "visa-free" entry, for which technically the only permitted purpose is tourism). The ABTC does not grant any permission to work - indeed, permission to work (a Work Permit) cannot be obtained unless one has a Non-Immigrant visa or Permanent Residence.

Performing the duties of a company director (eg. signing contracts and cheques) is considered work and does require a work permit, even if no compensation is received. Simply attending a shareholder's meeting as a shareholder is not work. Attending a shareholder's meeting as a company director...not sure.