Philippines Are A Mess

[percy2]

Are you serious? These were civilians that were murdered by terrorists. You can try to parse it any way you want...but when innocent people are killed by terrorists, that is murder. No need to respond. I know where your head and heart are. In another two weeks if you are running with the <deleted>, you might be in my sights. Good luck.

Are you really threatening another board member with murder?

[farang prince]

Are you serious? These were civilians that were murdered by terrorists. You can try to parse it any way you want...but when innocent people are killed by terrorists, that is murder. No need to respond. I know where your head and heart are. In another two weeks if you are running with the <deleted>, you might be in my sights. Good luck.

Are you really threatening another board member with murder?

Of course not. What I was trying to say is that in about two weeks when a civil war breaks out in the Philippines (it is actually starting now), that if he is running with the <deleted> then we would be on opposite sides of the equation. Sorry if it came out a little strident.

Edited August 20, 2008 by farang prince

[callipposhots]

As an aside, technically, Malaysia (through the vehicle of some of the historic Islamic sultanates that were incorporated into Malaysian Borneo) actually has territorial claims to large parts, if not all, of Mindanao

that's the first time I've heard of Malaysia laying any claim to 'large parts' of Mindanao.

The Sultanate of Sulu and North Borneo is a former Muslim state that ruled over much of the islands off the Sulu Sea. It includes part of the island of Mindanao in the east, to North Borneo, now known as Sabah, in the west and south and to Palawan in the north.

founded in 1457 it is believed to have existed as a sovereign nation for something like 440 years. The Sultanate of Sulu lays claim to Sabah. It obtained Sabah from Brunei as a gift for helping put down a rebellion on Borneo in the 19th century.

The British leased Sabah and transferred control over the territory to Malaysia after the end of the Second World War. To this day, Kuala Lumpur still pays an annual rent of 5,000 ringgit to the heirs of the Sultan of Sulu.

[percy2]

So just to be clear what is your definition of a terrorist?

[NotNew2You]

You can try to parse it any way you want...but when innocent people are killed by terrorists, that is murder. No need to respond. I know where your head and heart are. In another two weeks if you are running with the <deleted>, you might be in my sights.

Who's running with anyone <deleted>...if anything, I'm running around chasing bargirls in Pattaya

Why is it that when anyone provides a little historical perspective on any conflict, many retorts inevitably take the theme of "you're either with us or with the 'terrorists'"! Why can't anyone be for the truth?

When there are national groups within the boundaries of a state who are ignored, neglected, abused, or mistreated in other ways, they will seek redress by the means available to them. This may take the form of participation in the political process or armed conflict. Sometimes, there is no alternative but to seek formal independance. This can be achieved peacefully (Norway's separation from the Swedish Kingdom, the break-up of Czechoslovakia are examples) or through violence (East Timor's separation from Indonesia).

Thanks Callipposhots for the additional details regarding Malaysia's historical claims to large tracts of the southern Philippines. These claims are based on the incorporation of the Sulu Sultanates into Malaysian Borneo. Though these claims are not actively persued, it is my understanding that they have not been formally abandoned either.

[callipposhots]

These claims are based on the incorporation of the Sulu Sultanates into Malaysian Borneo. Though these claims are not actively persued, it is my understanding that they have not been formally abandoned either

it's not Malaysia, or Sabah, that claims the Sulu Sultanate, but the Philippines (via the Sulu Sultanate) that used to have a claim on Sabah, now 'dormant'. It's more or less been relinquished now. A referendum was held some time after independence and Sabahans decisively rejected the notion of becoming part of the Philippines.

the English on this site is a bit dodgy, but there's an overall view here:

http://www.epilipinas.com/SabahClaim.htm

Moro National Liberation Front chair Nur Misuari called for a revival of the Sabah claim during a gathering of the MNLF in Davao City as recently as March this year.

more here:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadl...-being-resolved

apart from the time when Marcos decided to make an issue of it for reasons of his own, the Philippine government's support for the Sabah claim has always been somewhat lukewarm, despite Sabah's valuable natural resources and despite Islam being a minority religion in Sabah. In fact some Sabahan towns feel much more like the Philippines than peninsular Malaysia. In Kennigau, for example, there's hardly any Muslims at all, but a lot of Filipino emigrants who mostly came in the 1970s.

as far as I know Malaysia doesn't claim any Philippines territory, though they do share a dispute over the Spratly islands with them, together with Vietnam, China, and Brunei.

[cophen]

We should listen to bighearted boy Obama on how to deal with terrorists...

Let's sit down and talk to them.

It worked with the IRA when they all finally decided to stop killing each other and sort it out like grown-ups.

[Carib]

We should listen to bighearted boy Obama on how to deal with terrorists...

Let's sit down and talk to them.

" Boy" Obama??? You sometimes wear a funny hat and..??

[sutnyod]

have you read this interview? There are some clues there...

However, given the habit of shameless lying here I will refrain from posting any opinion.

08.18.08_PDI_A_day_in_the_life_of_Cotabato_evacuees.pdf

[Tony Clifton]

Good morning sir, we are the armed representatives of the Jehovas Witnesses. Would you like to invite us in for a short bible reading followed by our friendly sales pitch?

It does have a certain ring to it and may cut down on the number of doors they get slammed in heir face.

Answer the door naked.

Watch them spin on their heels without uttering a word.

[Palace]

These claims are based on the incorporation of the Sulu Sultanates into Malaysian Borneo. Though these claims are not actively persued, it is my understanding that they have not been formally abandoned either

it's not Malaysia, or Sabah, that claims the Sulu Sultanate, but the Philippines (via the Sulu Sultanate) that used to have a claim on Sabah, now 'dormant'. It's more or less been relinquished now. A referendum was held some time after independence and Sabahans decisively rejected the notion of becoming part of the Philippines.

...

as far as I know Malaysia doesn't claim any Philippines territory, though they do share a dispute over the Spratly islands with them, together with Vietnam, China, and Brunei.

haven't been in the forum for awhile.

thanks callipposhots for clearing up that bit about territorial claims on mindanao and sabah.

we filipinos may have come from the malay race but we were never a part of malaysia. the centuries-old rebellion in mindanao is a call for an independent state largely borne by years of neglect from the national government seated in manila. it has less to do with geographical and religious issues although some people use that as a front.

thanks to the thread starter for his concern on the peace and order in RP. I don't think this will escalate into a civil war. for one, this recent attack is coming from "rogue" commanders of the <deleted>. mindanaoans, both muslims and christians, are condemning this violence. i fear more for the overall health of the country, which is in danger of getting shredded because of the policies of the current administration.

[sutnyod]

Do you have any statistics on the number of people killed by Philippine military forces?

Yes. Sometimes there are updates here.

[mainstream]

These claims are based on the incorporation of the Sulu Sultanates into Malaysian Borneo. Though these claims are not actively persued, it is my understanding that they have not been formally abandoned either

it's not Malaysia, or Sabah, that claims the Sulu Sultanate, but the Philippines (via the Sulu Sultanate) that used to have a claim on Sabah, now 'dormant'. It's more or less been relinquished now. A referendum was held some time after independence and Sabahans decisively rejected the notion of becoming part of the Philippines.

well, actually malaysia just based their claim of sabah when britain incorportated the island to malaysia... just like the case why vietnam claims parts of the spratlys because france incorportated it to the country. obviously, the west, having too little knowledge about eastern kingdoms and their realm territories just obviously pass it on to their former wards after they grant them sovereignty not knowing that others claim it because of close proximity, culture, history, etc.... that's why disputes arises especially that SEA is such a varied geographical entity with 2 large archipelagos and a mainland with different cultures under different handlers that were erring ones in europe back then like spain and france vs. britain or spain vs. portugal, etc..

[ace]

Who's running wtth anyone <deleted>...if anything, I'm running around chasing bargirls in Pattaya

..................

Why is it that when anyone provides a little historical perspective on any conflict, many retorts inevitably take the theme of "you're either with us or with the 'terrorists'"! Why can't anyone be for the truth?

Speaking if the truth and as you appear quite knowledgeable can you tell us if there is one single country in the World with a sizable Muslim minority that does not have an Islamic terrorist issue? I'm trying to think of one, but I can't.......

[dumball]

We should listen to bighearted boy Obama on how to deal with terrorists...

Let's sit down and talk to them.

It worked with the IRA when they all finally decided to stop killing each other and sort it out like grown-ups.

Didn't the IRA have some kind of education other than brain washing in Gaelic and Catholicism ? Just wondering .

[RusticCharm]

<deleted> attacks in Lanao del Norte yesterday...33 people murdered.

Don't you feel that describing causalities in an armed civil conflict between military forces of a state and non-state actors, the term "murdered" is inappropriate? I would think "killed' would be a better description, as the word "murder" implies a judgment as to the merits of the deaths on the part of the writer.

Do you have any statistics on the number of people killed by Philippine military forces?

Jesus! What a thoroughly stupid and ignorant post. 

The pro-muslim brigade never cease to amaze me. Usually white, guilt-tripping, middle-class, socialist-wannabees in a Che Guevara t-shirt.

So let's take a closer look at this ridiculous pseudo-intellectual post. 'Non-state actors'? 'Actors? <deleted>? 

A very strange way to describe Islamic terrorists. That's up there with 'Armed Representatives' methinks. It says a lot about your mindset.

I can't understand why you're continually trying to excuse and legitimise them. And then switching the onus onto the 'Philippine military forces'.

As to your question re. the statistics on the number of people killed by Philippine military forces? If the 'statistics' in question are muslim-terrorists (funny how those two words are now practically synonymous!), the obvious answer is 'NOT ENOUGH!'

These were civilians that were murdered by terrorists. You can try to parse it any way you want...but when innocent people are killed by terrorists, that is murder.

Well according to the poster known as 'NotNew2You', their surviving relatives can take solace in the fact that their loved-ones were killed by non-state actors and the merits of their deaths are still uncertain. Edited September 30, 2008 by RusticCharm

[yabs]

yes a bad situation but good comes from all bad

good thing is with all ther trouble means mining companies and arabs acnnot rape the island

and tourist development stays away

can you imagine what would happen if this island found peace?

it would be raped in no time flat

muslim extremist are evil but i n some ways good for the enviroenment

[WISteve]

yes a bad situation but good comes from all bad

good thing is with all ther trouble means mining companies and arabs acnnot rape the island

and tourist development stays away

can you imagine what would happen if this island found peace?

it would be raped in no time flat

muslim extremist are evil but i n some ways good for the enviroenment

OMG now we have the "Green" terrorists making excuses for murdering Christian residents as well!

Torched any sub-divisions to save the snail darter lately?

It takes an incredibly convoluted logic to see that a slow, simmering civil war that brings continued pain and suffering to the citizens of Mindanao is a better option than having some tourist sullying the beaches? If you are concerned about responsible resource development than address it directly and forcefully. But wishing war upon a people who have seen so much of it already is cruel the to nth degree IMO.

Please explain this to the surviving family of the next soldier, plantation worker or school teacher who is killed in the southern provinces of Thailand, will you? I'm sure they will thank you for your environmental awareness!!

~WISteve

[thepodest]

LMAO!!!!!!!

<deleted>???? LOL.

I'm sorry, but I can't resist.

[stevenjm]

I'm now living in mindanao and was up in the troubled area this week visiting somebody and apart from a couple of pretty relaxed military check points and over cautious people telling me to stay seated behind the tinted windows i just cant see a ,civil war situation at all. i really dont think the <deleted> have hardcore , large number support enough and will see some heavy duty military ass kicking soon if they dont pull their heads in.

[OxfordWill]

I'm ignorant about PI, if it did kick off would there be any effects for people living in Manila? If so, what?

[endofway]

Really depends on which side you support as to whether they are "armed representatives" (quite like the term) "freedom fighters" or "terrorists"

Cheers

Terrorists are not easily describable in 1 or 2 terms. They can almost always be accurately described as: uneducated, easily led/misled, ignorant, fanatical, narrowly focused, immoral, conscienceless, semi-psychopathic, no-concern-for-rights-of-others, male persons who prefer to kill women, children, and old men to the option of fighting wearing a uniform in a populace-sanctioned unit.

They are almost always the have-nots, fighting to improve their economic lot whether they admit it or not to themselves. They are non-creators, take pleasure in destruction. A lot more fun to burn a house than build it. They are often not risktakers, better to plant a roadside bomb in Iraq, Sten-gun a limo in Malaya, lean a bicycle-bomb against the gangplank of a Saigon floating restaurant, snipe a Brit in Belfast,

park a fertilizer-bomb truck at a government building, behead an unarmed, pacific monk, rig a Tiger's Gate bamboo trap in the jungle, etc. And the fanatical risktakers(human bombs) do this only because they have been told they are about to leave their sex-deprived, miserable lives to immediately reach a sexual heaven simply by killing themselves in a mission to attack foreign enemies.

These are the terrorists. And governments negotiate with them--frequently giving in to them!

[percy2]

You nearly got me then, until I saw where you were from

Just a quick question , is Armed Representative to Terrorist what RusticCharm is to Red Neck?

Cheers