How Close Are My Believes To Buddhism?

[Radius]

I have always called myself an atheïst.

But recently I have been studying Buddhism and the amount of things I tend to agree with are amazing.

I need to study much more about it, but I wonder how close you think I am to Buddism in my 'beliefs'.

I do not belief in God.

With God I mean something that has consiousness, one can communicate with(prayer) and possibly get a reaction from (miracle). God is what made everything and can still decide to influence us in the way he/she/it chooses.

This is what I DO NOT belief in.

I think there is no purpose to life, the universe or existance for that matter. We just are.

I think we must do good. Not because someone tells us, but simply because we want to and in the end it is better for ourselfs and the world around us.

In the past, when I was still deciding about how I thought about 'everything', I would lay down on my bed and be able to achieve a completely relaxed state by just 'letting go' of everything (both physicly and mentally).

One could call this meditation.

I feel very little need to do this currently but from time to time I still like to achieve this 'relaxed state of mind'.

I think that everything that exist has always existed and always will exist. But the form in which everything exists constantly changes (sometimes in small ways and sometimes in very big ways).

This is the biggest part of how I stand in life that seems to be pretty much Buddhism.

I also have found 1 thing that sort of contradicts in my line of thought with Buddhism but I have to research that some more to be sure.

I do not believe in reïncarnation. I do not believe that my current life will continue in any way after I die, besides maybe some materialistic things I leave behind. And offcourse the thoughts of me by the people loving me and the people not loving me.

This is it for now.

So, how close to Buddhism am I?

Feel free to ask me any questions you like to obtain an answer to my question.

[Brucenkhamen]

Sounds to me like you are already Buddhist in your outlook, as long as your views are not fixed in stone but are open to change as you learn new things.

A lot of western Buddhist, maybe most, don't belive in reincarnation the way it is taught in the east, in that you have a sould that is popped into another body and sent on it's way. This contradicts the Buddhas teaching of no seperate self.

The Buddha taught re-becoming, in that everything that arises passes away and everything that passes away arises, so that when someone dies and new life is born, there may be some of the kamma from the previous life carried over but it is not the old person reborn in a new body.

At the end of the day the Buddha taught not to believe anything just because he said it, you make up your own mind as you learn, and as you say live a good life.

Edited August 22, 2008 by camerata
Deleted unnecessary quote.

[camerata]

Radius, I think the key to Buddhism is the mental training to transform oneself and reduce suffering, rather than holding a particular set of views about life. Your philosophy sounds more like Utilitarianism or secular humanism to me.

[clausewitz]

I see no iota of right view as per Buddhist doctrine in your beliefs.

Hope that helps.

Clauz.

[Radius]

wow, totally different opinions, lol.

Brucenkhamen: I am and always will be open to everything around me in the world (only problem is there isn't enough time to learn everything). I found as you said that 'reïncarnation' can be explained in different ways.

And one of those ways could probebly be aligned with my phillosophy.

camerata: I could argue that finding 'the truth' has given me more peace of mind then one can imagine. I seriously feel that I have the amount of understanding of 'everything' needed to get by in life without going crazy. So you could say I have reduced my suffering in this way.

Offcourse I am still part of the reality we all live in and this brings the suffering that you can only escape in death. But because of my outlook on life I am at pease and feel no need to either kill myself or search endlessly for tranquility.

clausewitz: With a bit more explaination, what you said, might be helpfull.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Radius

[camerata]

wow, totally different opinions, lol.

But because of my outlook on life I am at pease and feel no need to either kill myself or search endlessly for tranquility.

Actually, I wasn't disagreeing with Brucenkhamen. Some of your views do correspond with Buddhism. But the big difference is that for a Buddhist, life is continual self-improvement up to enlightenment, whereas you say you have already found peace.

[Radius]

There is always room for improvememnt, but yes; I have found what I was looking for and I am content with it.

All that remains are more Earthly and smaller things I like to change about how I am, where I am and what I do.

But these things are insignificant compared to what was mentioned earlier.

[poshthai]

I class myself as a non-believer purely becaus i have seem some very nasty,greedy so called religious people and i have no time for them.My belief is try to be a nice person as much as possible,dont be greedy,help people not fortunate as yourself,stay healthy and treat your loved ones with much love.

My problem is i seem to have a low tolerence level of stupid people and greedy ones too.I know this is a weakness with me and i am trying hard not to react to idiots but i do find myself giving a verbal bashing to these types of dicks.

[camerata]

i am trying hard not to react to idiots but i do find myself giving a verbal bashing to these types of dicks.

To me, one of the main advantages of Buddhism over plain atheism is you learn how not to react to idiots and you lose the desire to give anyone a verbal bashing.

[Groongthep]

To me, one of the main advantages of Buddhism over plain atheism is you learn how not to react to idiots and you lose the desire to give anyone a verbal bashing.

[poshthai]

Well maybe i should read the book then.I am getting much better because i dont fight now,is that any good lol.

[Radius]

To me, one of the main advantages of Buddhism over plain atheism is you learn how not to react to idiots and you lose the desire to give anyone a verbal bashing.

I learned that just fine without Buddhism.

However, I do enjoy a good discussion.

[camerata]

The subject is whether Radius' atheistic beliefs are similar to Buddhism. All off-topic posts will be deleted from now on.

On the other hand, there's no time like the present...

[IMA_FARANG]

There is no certain answer to that question. it depends on whatever the person you are asking thinks what a real Buddhist is. Some might insist you have to take refuge in the 3 points of doctrine known as the triple jewels. Others might want you to follow what is known as eightfold path.

Buddhist thought and philosophy is a remarkably diverse collection of beliefs. Each school has certain pieces of doctrine or Dharma they insist you must believe in. But there is no central authority that sets the standard.

Now it is true in Thailand the predominent type of Buddhisim is the Thredvata branch, and many Thai Buddhists might insist you have to follow some of their doctrine to be a real Buddhist.

Search for yourself, and make your own judgement. No one will force you to believe anything. It can't ,and doesn't, hurt.

For many, especially western Buddhists, the heart of Buddhisim is the attempt to live a moral and uplifting life. A life that benefits both themselves and all other human beings. The point is to attempt to conciously live that life.

Any way you look at it, that can't be too bad.

[Radius]

For many, especially western Buddhists, the heart of Buddhisim is the attempt to live a moral and uplifting life. A life that benefits both themselves and all other human beings. The point is to attempt to conciously live that life.

Any way you look at it, that can't be too bad.

I allready do that.

And I am not concerned about beeing a REAL Buddhist. I was just amazed by the amount of similarities I found between my own confictions and Buddhism.

And I wondered what you all thought about that.

[Samuian]

..Truth is a pathless land and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion by any sect....

j.Krishnamurti

"What was done yesterday can be undone today; there's no permanent continuance of anything. Continuance can and must be dissipated through the understanding of its process. So when you SEE this process, when you are really aware of it without opposition, without a sense of temptation, without resistance, without justifying or judging it then you will discover that the mind is capable of receiving the new and that the new is never a sensation therefore it can never be recognized, re-experienced. It is a state of being in which creativeness comes without invitation, without memory and that is reality. That which is unnameable cannot be recognised. It is not a sensation....."

Vedananam samudayanca atthangamanca assadanca

adinavanca nissarananca yathabhutam viditva

anupadavimutto, bhikkhave, tathagato.

-Digha Nikaya I. 36, Brahmajala Sutta

Having known as they really are, the arising and passing away of sensations, the enjoyment of them, the danger in them and the release from them, the Enlightened One, O monks, is fully liberated and freed from all attachment.

from The Buddhanet

Since things are as they are, I am as I am, the question arises: "why worry, who I am, what I am, where am I am going to, when I am going to die, to live, to breathe - unless I realize it right now and here!

What to strive for, what to attain, if everything is ever onlt here and now - tomorrow will never come, it will always remain tomorrow!

Edited August 22, 2008 by Samuian

[Brucenkhamen]

I allready do that.

And I am not concerned about beeing a REAL Buddhist. I was just amazed by the amount of similarities I found between my own confictions and Buddhism.

And I wondered what you all thought about that.

It's hardly surprising, your views are compatible with those of Buddhism because they are both common sense. However, as Camerata pointed out, Buddhism is not what you do or don't believe about life the universe and everything but a system of mental development.

[Radius]

It's hardly surprising, your views are compatible with those of Buddhism because they are both common sense. However, as Camerata pointed out, Buddhism is not what you do or don't believe about life the universe and everything but a system of mental development.

Now THAT, is an interesting statement. Something I haven't noticed on my brief study of Buddhism yet.

Could you please explain some more about that?

Bit hard to compare this to my current situation but I have most certainly gone through a stage of mental development.

I have not stopped this process, but I have found peace when it comes to the big questions about life the universe and everything. This peace has made it possible to point my attention to other things and this is one of the reasons I now find myself studying Buddhism.

If I understand things correctly, a Buddhist might say something to me like: "You have made the first step on the path to end your suffering".

If this isn't mental development, I don't know what is.

[ff978472]

Different people has a different interpretation of what Buddha taught.

For me, I belive that our selfness arises out of ignorance of our Citta and that causes the feeling of being and we need to live with the consequent of it (suffering)

We (our Citta) are trapped in a bi-dimension world (the Matrix if you like); good-bad, hate-love, high-low, short-long, black-white, ugly-beatiful, democrat-republican, etc.

Our Citta is some special element which is born and die all the time like the lightbulb which refresh 50 times in every second. But our Citta is much faster than the lightbulb and it makes us belive that we are some kind of being.

With the bi-dimension world our Citta live in, our Citta created heaven-earth, light-darkness, sky-land, living thing-non-living things, male-female,I-you, mine-your,sin-virtue and other things came along with the result is suffering.

Buddha has a lot of teaching to suit different level of people (Citta). Some people just only listen to his Dhamma once and become in full consiousness (free from the Matrix). Not many people fall into this category and I think that is the target of Zen teaching.

For some people, they need to gradually awake by teaching their Citta to learn to see the world the way it is. This is called Vippasana. For me, it's just a simple process of realising yourself in every day, every hour, every minute, every second and every millisecond. What you have to do is to let your Citta know what it feels (angry, jeolous, love, confusion etc) and accept that it's part of the nature. It's the way this element reacts to the environment and it's not you who feel it. To be able to stay awake all the time you need Samathi and Sati. Your Citta will gradually learn the fact and one day it will be free from the Matrix. The process of this type of people may be longer than the first type of people and it must be a continous process to achieve the target.

I am not sure how close my believes to yours

[ff978472]

In the past, when I was still deciding about how I thought about 'everything', I would lay down on my bed and be able to achieve a completely relaxed state by just 'letting go' of everything (both physicly and mentally).

One could call this meditation.

What you call meditation is something not new. It existed even before Buddha era. Those yogi used it to find the path but they just failed because they stucked to the upper level of mundane world (called Brahma state). In this state, you are in the emptiness but still in the matrix. You are just attached to the emptiness and you will be there forever if you don't realise it fast enought. The final destination of what Buddha found is called Supramundane world and it's beyond what yogi's meditation techniques can do.

[Radius]

I am aware that meditation is not new and/or exclusive to Buddhism.

I used it without knowing nothing more from Buddhism then that it existed.

Only now that I finally study Buddhism I find the amount of things beeing said stunningly close to what I have discovered on my own.

Especially because of my discussions with Christians. They are incapable of understanding a Godless world.

Let alone the consquenses that has. They also find it very hard to understand how one can be good without believing in a God.

Buddhism pretty much says to the world what I have been saying all along to them.

About my meditaion:

I am not sure at what level my meditation brings me. Keep in mind that it is completely self taught and I have purposely not looked up how to meditate because I wanted to find out for myself.

The process is very hard to explain and it took a long while.

At first it was just relaxing.

After a while it became more relaxing and somewhat hallucinatic.

I kept seeing colors shapes moving around.

After this (and now it becomes hard to describe) the colors and shapes where just a phase to go through and then I kind of 'felt' those same colors and shapes moving. Sound and rythem is there too.

Then I began to get glimpses of understanding. But when I came out of the meditation it was hard to remember. It even faded after seconds allready.

Untill there was a moment where I could remember. And then I felt I had reached what I wanted to reach with the meditation.

I can now go into a meditative state and relatively quickly 'fall' into something that I can only describe as 'feeling part of the complete picture'. Not just knowing and remembering but actually experiencing.

I still have to pass through all the layers. But because I know 'the way' this comes reasonably easy. Not always btw.

There are times when it just doesn't work. Then I am distracted by something in some way (can be very tiny).

What did I get out of this?

The very tiny part of it that is usefull in the physical world and the memory of 'the truth of reality'.

The realisation that everything is completely pointless without the need to either go wild and do (bad) crazy things or the need to kill myself.

Everything beeing completely pointless does not mean everything does not effect everything else (Buddhist describe this as kamma) in good and bad ways. Everything does effect everything. And if I want to live and I want to have a nice life doing good increases my chances of a good life for myself.

Doing bad decreases those chances (notice me using the word 'chances', because either way, everything is possible).

I have found the peace I wanted to find and I know that whatever the 'real' reality is. Understanding it does very little for me in the day to day reality. I still need food to live. I still need money to buy that food. I still need work to get that money and I still have forms of stress within that job.

But I can put it all in perspective. Thats pretty much it.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Radius

[ff978472]

At first it was just relaxing.

After a while it became more relaxing and somewhat hallucinatic.

I kept seeing colors shapes moving around.

After this (and now it becomes hard to describe) the colors and shapes where just a phase to go through and then I kind of 'felt' those same colors and shapes moving.

Then I began to get glimpses of understanding. But when I came out of the meditation it was hard to remember. It even faded after seconds allready.

This is called kasin in Thai. It's good that you can do it. But just leave it there. Don't get serious with it. Any yogi can do that.

I can now go into a meditative state and relatively quickly 'fall' into something that I can only describe as 'feeling part of the complete picture'. Not just knowing and remembering but actually experiencing.

I still have to pass through all the layers. But because I know 'the way' this comes reasonably easy. Not always btw.

There are times when it just doesn't work. Then I am distracted by something in some way (can be very tiny).

This called Nimit in Thai. Just ignore it.

What did I get out of this?

You get happiness in the mundane world. That's good enough if you don't attach to it. Just leave it there and continue to the path.

[orchis]

[

I still have to pass through all the layers. But because I know 'the way' this comes reasonably easy. Not always btw.

There are times when it just doesn't work. Then I am distracted by something in some way (can be very tiny).

This called Nimit in Thai. Just ignore it.

I kept seeing colors shapes moving around.

After this (and now it becomes hard to describe) the colors and shapes where just a phase to go through and then I kind of 'felt' those same colors and shapes moving

^

Isn t the above 'nimit'?

[Radius]

Interesting it all has a name.

I'll need to look into that as well (soooo much to learn, I love it).

I have to say al this talk about Buddhism, meditation and rebirth is very pleasurable.

Big change from the non-understanding Western people I have talked with. I can hardly talk with them about meditation let alone what it has brought me (Christians in particular are thinking so differently I get stuck after a while in the conversation).

btw, I have nothing against any belief whatsoever as long as it brings good things. But I have to admit I think even true Christians may do much good I personally find it a shame they base this 'doing good' on something untrue: The existance of a God (but this is just my opinion).

For the passed few days while reading about Buddhism I have had the following experience several times:

DUUUUHHHHH, I HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT ALL ALONG. FINALLY PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND!

Very pleasurable indeed.

About meditation: You are saying there is more then what I have achieved so far? If so, please explain.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Radius

[ff978472]

I still have to pass through all the layers. But because I know 'the way' this comes reasonably easy. Not always btw.

There are times when it just doesn't work. Then I am distracted by something in some way (can be very tiny).

This called Nimit in Thai. Just ignore it.

I kept seeing colors shapes moving around.

After this (and now it becomes hard to describe) the colors and shapes where just a phase to go through and then I kind of 'felt' those same colors and shapes moving

^

Isn t the above 'nimit'?

Yes, Kasin is a type of meditation and what you saw is called Nimit.But like I said, just ignore it. It bring you to nowhere.

If you see the Nimit and feel happy (that you can do it), just know yourself that you feel happy and don't stuck with it. It's not the final destination. It's just a natural phenomenon. Buddha could do these things when he was just a small boy but It was not what he found.

[camerata]

For the passed few days while reading about Buddhism I have had the following experience several times:

DUUUUHHHHH, I HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT ALL ALONG. FINALLY PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND!

And Buddhists have understood for 2,500 years.

[Radius]

Yes, Kasin is a type of meditation and what you saw is called Nimit.But like I said, just ignore it. It bring you to nowhere.

If you see the Nimit and feel happy (that you can do it), just know yourself that you feel happy and don't stuck with it. It's not the final destination. It's just a natural phenomenon. Buddha could do these things when he was just a small boy but It was not what he found.

I am past Nimit then. After it but also before it there seems to be 'void, emptyness, nothingness'.

And then some sort of connection with 'everything' follows. There is no way to describe it and it comes in flashes that I am sometimes able to hold for a little while longer. I am sure that it seems longer then it really is.

Within these flashes I have total understanding. It took a while to be able to remember the more physical part of them outside this meditative state.

At first I could only remember it is all very simple. Later on some details where filled in.

But this memory has brought me the peace of mind I was looking for and therefor I have not felt the need to explore further in meditation. I just don't see the need because whatever my knowledge of reality is and however deep the understanding goes. I am still physicly bound to this Earthly existance.

I may be able to temporarely excape it through meditation, but that is it. And I don't feel the need to escape. I just want to live and experience as much of the physical world as possible without wasting time searching for some perfect meditative state.

I hope I am not offending anyone with that statement.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Radius

[ff978472]

Interesting it all has a name.

Of course, people in those days are much smarter than us. They have learnt these things and have name for everything they found but those name are in Pali+Sanskrit. For Thai people, we are lucky that we already have Pali+Sanskrit included in Thai language so it's kind of easier for Thai to understand meaning of word like Citta, Samadhi, Sati. I don't think you will get the exact meaning of these word when translated into English. So, my advice is to learn it in the original language (Pali,Sanskrit)

btw, I have nothing against any belief whatsoever as long as it brings good things. But I have to admit I think even true Christians may do much good I personally find it a shame they base this 'doing good' on something untrue: The existance of a God (but this is just my opinion).

My belief is that many Christian misinterpreted Bible and God. Instead of looking for God inside themselve, they look for God in the sky which I don't think was what the author of bible meant. The same thing happen to buddhists who interpret tripitaka in different ways and may not align to what Buddha meant. I beleive that if you go back to read the Genesis again, you will find it in a different view and it goes in the same direction.

For the passed few days while reading about Buddhism I have had the following experience several times:

DUUUUHHHHH, I HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT ALL ALONG. FINALLY PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND!

There are many buddhists who understand what you experienced (the casue and the result of meditation technique) and it's not new for them at all. It's already found more than 2,500 years ago even before Buddha's era. Those days are when people are much more intelligence than nowaday. They left home to seek for the truth and they invented so many techniques to set them free from the Matrix (the mundane world). There are many people who did just what Buddha did but they couldn't explain it to someone else. Those people are called Pratyekabuddha (Individual Buddha.) Buddha is just a person who succees in opening his eyes to the real world and he was just the first person who decided to teach other people to do so.

About meditation: You are saying there is more then what I have achieved so far? If so, please explain.

Like I said, the meditation techniques (samatha I meant) invented by those yogi in those days can bring you as far as the upmost level of the Lokiya (mundane) world called Brahma. It will not set your citta free from the Lokiya world. But many people mistake it (Brahma state) with the nirvana because it will bring them a lot of happiness (and emptiness). And if you are addicted to the hapiness received in this state, your Citta won't go nowhere and it's even harder for you than other Citta which never reached this state to cross the border. And that's why I gave you a warning. Just know yourself that you reach this state and accept it as a natural phenomenon happened to your citta; ignore it and continue. It's not the correct path.

What you have to do is to use Vipasana technique to gradually open your citta to see the world as it actually is. When you can break through the Lokiya world, you will reach Lokuttara world (supermundane world). The trick is to observe your citta (in your every day life) to see what it reacts to the environment (Passa) and you will see how your citta make you feel angry, love, hate, jeolous, happy, sad etc. Just accept the way it reacts, don't force it. Don't hate the way it reacts. And when you cross the border to the Lokuttara world, you don't have to observe your citta any more. It's something like if you want to see a fish in a pond; you will need to look into the water first. When you look into the water, you will finally found the fish. And when you see the fish, you don't and shouldn't look at the water anymore (otherwise it will confuse you and the fish will not be the fish, the mountain will not be the moutain.) That's all about the theory. It's simple like that but it's not simple at all when it come to the practice.

[ff978472]

Yes, Kasin is a type of meditation and what you saw is called Nimit.But like I said, just ignore it. It bring you to nowhere.

If you see the Nimit and feel happy (that you can do it), just know yourself that you feel happy and don't stuck with it. It's not the final destination. It's just a natural phenomenon. Buddha could do these things when he was just a small boy but It was not what he found.

I am past Nimit then. After it but also before it there seems to be 'void, emptyness, nothingness'.

And then some sort of connection with 'everything' follows. There is no way to describe it and it comes in flashes that I am sometimes able to hold for a little while longer. I am sure that it seems longer then it really is.

Within these flashes I have total understanding. It took a while to be able to remember the more physical part of them outside this meditative state.

At first I could only remember it is all very simple. Later on some details where filled in.

But this memory has brought me the peace of mind I was looking for and therefor I have not felt the need to explore further in meditation. I just don't see the need because whatever my knowledge of reality is and however deep the understanding goes. I am still physicly bound to this Earthly existance.

I may be able to temporarely excape it through meditation, but that is it. And I don't feel the need to escape. I just want to live and experience as much of the physical world as possible without wasting time searching for some perfect meditative state.

I hope I am not offending anyone with that statement.

You are falling into the trap. This is called Vipassnukiles (this is in Thai; don't know what the pali is). It's a welknown symptom of people who practice Samatha meditation. It lures people who reach this state to get stuck with it thinking they reach the highest state of nirvana. It's well documented in tripitaka. Just ignore it and forget about it.

FYI, there are 10 symptoms of Vippassanukiles:

๑. Opas (illumination; luminous aura)

๒. Chan (knowledge)

๓. Piti (rapture; unprecedented joy)

๔. Passasit (tranquillity)

๕. Suk ( bliss; pleasure)

๖. Athimoke (favor; resolution; determination)

๗. Pakkaha (exertion; strenuousness)

๘. Upathan (established mindfulness)

๙. Ubekkha (equanimity)

๑๐. Nikanti (delight)

You may found yourself in one or more of these symptoms. Just believe me and ignore it. Don't get stuck with it.

Edited August 25, 2008 by ff978472

[Radius]

Funny you should say that about misunderstanding the Bible and God.

I did suggest that possebility. In fact I am able to explain very many stories in the bible the way you suggest (a nd have).

I am (like you) pretty sure everything in the bible can be explained by God not beeing in the sky but within one self.

About meditation: I did have a fear of getting addicted to it at some time. But I no longer have that fear.

As said in my previous post, I think I am past Nimit but what you descibed as looking at my citta and see how it reacts. I haven't done that.

Probebly because my goal of meditation was not more understanding of myself but more understanding of reality around me (wich has automaticly lead to understanding myself better as well).

And because I have found this understanding the need for meditation is almost none existant currently.

I just use it as a relaxation technique from time to time now.

And because I have not been looking for nirvana, how can I fall into the trap?

Edited August 25, 2008 by Radius