PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[animatic]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House in Washington and raid it...

I keep seeing this and it bugs me.

There have been MANY incidences of one - two or three million or more protesters,

on the lawn between the Capital and the White House in Washington.

I think the record is around 5 million.

Anti war rallies, and anti-racism rallies anti taxes rallies,

And rallies about incumbent presidential decisions.

I can go on.

And at least 2, "Million Man Marches".

Of course government security goes up, but the rallies have happened.

There BIG rallies against Nixon and he certainly was a crook in office.

Anti-Bush rallies about the mishandling of Iraq and Katrina and gun control,

mothers of servicemen killed in action VERY unhappy and it goes on.

Edited August 30, 2008 by animatic

[frodo]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

Agree with that! PPP has never been a credible government from the start. Since they've been elected, nothing has been accomplished. With the current threat of a general strike, Samak continues to be oblivious to the very real problems Thailand is facing. While he screams out he was appointed and will not step down for the sake of the country, his country is quickly going downward fast due to his pigheadedness (pun intended) and obstinacy. He needs to step down.

[lucky2103]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

Well, I agree that a really developed society wudnt form a mob which marches on to government district.

specialy because they wouldn't have a bunch of criminals as their government.

This point needs some further explanation. Im here for more than 10 years and I disliked Mr. Samak from the start on, as I knew his style from the times he was bkk governor. But apart from his willingness to change the constitution to get Toxin escape, I dont know how to fault him (maybe the selection of Maj. Chalerm as Interior minister was another point, as he is the usual suspect, I guess).

[h90]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

Agree with that! PPP has never been a credible government from the start. Since they've been elected, nothing has been accomplished. With the current threat of a general strike, Samak continues to be oblivious to the very real problems Thailand is facing. While he screams out he was appointed and will not step down for the sake of the country, his country is quickly going downward fast due to his pigheadedness (pun intended) and obstinacy. He needs to step down.

Well some things were accomplished: Red Passport for Thaksin, a quick deal with Cambodia.....

That's not nothing.

[h90]

from the nation:

Samak avoids media at Don Muang Military Airport

An army of reporters and photographers waited for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej at the Don Muang Military Airport until 8 pm but he did not show up.

The media went there to wait for him on expectation that the prime minister would hold a press conference once he arrived from Hua Hin.

It was believed that the military plane was rerouted to land at the Air Force headquarters instead.

The Nation

[Insight]

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

Think Gary's missus has been seeing no evil, hearing no evil and speaking no evil when it comes to TRT/PPP and Samak's rise to power, which has rather brushed off on Gary who took her prognosis of a "clean" election at face value. The lad needs to get out a bit more round election time methinks. Or just read the Isaan Forum where there is regularly a rush of admissions from posters about how much their respective mias made from the last round of handouts at elections. Or maybe Loei is so far from such shenanigans, that the politicians are all white as the driven snow in that province?

Gary has been around the place long enough to know the ropes in Thailand. I have known him from another board for more than 5years.

Nothing wrong with debating another board members point of view, but postulating that his political opinion is grossly influenced by his wife's political views is a pretty weak excuse for an argument. Maybe better to debate the issue than to postulate on personal relationships.

My original post wasn't supposed to be taken as a stab at Gary or his partner - apologies if it's been received as such. On the contary, I remember Gary stating very early on in the thread how he was a bit taken back at his partner's political views being directly opposed to his - hence my suggestion to check with her, which, thankfully, he did....

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

My missus is a deluded anarchist who refuses to see the facts. She absolutely refuses to accept the fact that People AGAINST Democracy are another bunch of duped citizens who believe in their insane leaders.

ADDED - She was actually disappointed that she was offered nothing for her vote. I did ask her that if she had taken money if she would have voted for the person who paid her. She emphatically told me that she indeed would take the money but she would vote for whoever she wanted.

Thailand needs more people like her

Edited August 30, 2008 by Insight

[Thaising]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

Agree with that! PPP has never been a credible government from the start. Since they've been elected, nothing has been accomplished. With the current threat of a general strike, Samak continues to be oblivious to the very real problems Thailand is facing. While he screams out he was appointed and will not step down for the sake of the country, his country is quickly going downward fast due to his pigheadedness (pun intended) and obstinacy. He needs to step down.

Well some things were accomplished: Red Passport for Thaksin, a quick deal with Cambodia.....

That's not nothing.

The worse part of him is to tell the international communities not to meddled with Angsan Sugyi and Burma internal affairs. And here he's talking about an elected government and democracy.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Thaising

[Insight]

from the nation:

Samak avoids media at Don Muang Military Airport

An army of reporters and photographers waited for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej at the Don Muang Military Airport until 8 pm but he did not show up.

The media went there to wait for him on expectation that the prime minister would hold a press conference once he arrived from Hua Hin.

It was believed that the military plane was rerouted to land at the Air Force headquarters instead.

The Nation

Perhaps we're in for another lecture on Thai language tomorrow morning?

[h90]

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

Think Gary's missus has been seeing no evil, hearing no evil and speaking no evil when it comes to TRT/PPP and Samak's rise to power, which has rather brushed off on Gary who took her prognosis of a "clean" election at face value. The lad needs to get out a bit more round election time methinks. Or just read the Isaan Forum where there is regularly a rush of admissions from posters about how much their respective mias made from the last round of handouts at elections. Or maybe Loei is so far from such shenanigans, that the politicians are all white as the driven snow in that province?

Gary has been around the place long enough to know the ropes in Thailand. I have known him from another board for more than 5years.

Nothing wrong with debating another board members point of view, but postulating that his political opinion is grossly influenced by his wife's political views is a pretty weak excuse for an argument. Maybe better to debate the issue than to postulate on personal relationships.

My original post wasn't supposed to be taken as a stab at Gary or his partner - apologies if it's been received as such. On the contary, I remember Gary stating very early on in the thread how he was a bit taken back at his partner's political views being directly opposed to his - hence my suggestion to check with her, which, thankfully, he did....

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

My missus is a deluded anarchist who refuses to see the facts. She absolutely refuses to accept the fact that People AGAINST Democracy are another bunch of duped citizens who believe in their insane leaders.

ADDED - She was actually disappointed that she was offered nothing for her vote. I did ask her that if she had taken money if she would have voted for the person who paid her. She emphatically told me that she indeed would take the money but she would vote for whoever she wanted.

Thailand needs more people like her

no, that might be satiric but expecting money is very strange. If I knock the door in my home-country Austria and offer 100 Euro, I get beaten, police get called.

Specially from the older generation but also from younger one. That is the only way, you don't murder your neighbor, you don't rape his daughter and you don't take money from criminals for vote-buying.

[h90]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

Agree with that! PPP has never been a credible government from the start. Since they've been elected, nothing has been accomplished. With the current threat of a general strike, Samak continues to be oblivious to the very real problems Thailand is facing. While he screams out he was appointed and will not step down for the sake of the country, his country is quickly going downward fast due to his pigheadedness (pun intended) and obstinacy. He needs to step down.

Well some things were accomplished: Red Passport for Thaksin, a quick deal with Cambodia.....

That's not nothing.

The worse part of him is to tell the international communities not to meddled with Angsan Sugyi and Burma internal affairs. And here he's talking about an elected government and democracy.

Did you see him together with the Myanmar premier (junta boss)? They even look very similar, could be twins.

[blaze]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

[blaze]

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

Think Gary's missus has been seeing no evil, hearing no evil and speaking no evil when it comes to TRT/PPP and Samak's rise to power, which has rather brushed off on Gary who took her prognosis of a "clean" election at face value. The lad needs to get out a bit more round election time methinks. Or just read the Isaan Forum where there is regularly a rush of admissions from posters about how much their respective mias made from the last round of handouts at elections. Or maybe Loei is so far from such shenanigans, that the politicians are all white as the driven snow in that province?

Gary has been around the place long enough to know the ropes in Thailand. I have known him from another board for more than 5years.

Nothing wrong with debating another board members point of view, but postulating that his political opinion is grossly influenced by his wife's political views is a pretty weak excuse for an argument. Maybe better to debate the issue than to postulate on personal relationships.

My original post wasn't supposed to be taken as a stab at Gary or his partner - apologies if it's been received as such. On the contary, I remember Gary stating very early on in the thread how he was a bit taken back at his partner's political views being directly opposed to his - hence my suggestion to check with her, which, thankfully, he did....

Samak was NOT elected. He was appointed buy the PPP which was elected. As far as being paid to vote, that is bullshit too. That is just another crutch that is being used by the People AGAINST Democracy. Some people here are just as disillusioned and the people who follow these anarchists.

Gary, personally think you should clarify that one with your missus a bit more...

My missus is a deluded anarchist who refuses to see the facts. She absolutely refuses to accept the fact that People AGAINST Democracy are another bunch of duped citizens who believe in their insane leaders.

ADDED - She was actually disappointed that she was offered nothing for her vote. I did ask her that if she had taken money if she would have voted for the person who paid her. She emphatically told me that she indeed would take the money but she would vote for whoever she wanted.

Thailand needs more people like her

no, that might be satiric but expecting money is very strange. If I knock the door in my home-country Austria and offer 100 Euro, I get beaten, police get called.

Specially from the older generation but also from younger one. That is the only way, you don't murder your neighbor, you don't rape his daughter and you don't take money from criminals for vote-buying.

Interesting- if you offer somebody a 100 euro bribe in Austia- you'll get beaten- but am I to gather that if you storm the Hohes Haus, you will NOT be met with all force required to keep you out- including deadly.

Must be an interesting country.

[bulmercke]

The PAD's displacement of Samak won't mean a great deal until those two other slippery eels - waiting eagerly in the wings - Banharm and Sienoh Tiengtong are also displaced from power.

[Thaising]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

Agree with that! PPP has never been a credible government from the start. Since they've been elected, nothing has been accomplished. With the current threat of a general strike, Samak continues to be oblivious to the very real problems Thailand is facing. While he screams out he was appointed and will not step down for the sake of the country, his country is quickly going downward fast due to his pigheadedness (pun intended) and obstinacy. He needs to step down.

Well some things were accomplished: Red Passport for Thaksin, a quick deal with Cambodia.....

That's not nothing.

The worse part of him is to tell the international communities not to meddled with Angsan Sugyi and Burma internal affairs. And here he's talking about an elected government and democracy.

Did you see him together with the Myanmar premier (junta boss)? They even look very similar, could be twins.

That's why he cooked for the Burmese general during their eye to eye meeting in Bangkok.

[unomi]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that many posters are simply unaware of the context of these protests. One of the articles of the constitution that the PPP wanted amended was article 237 concerning the dissolution of political parties that had executives involved in vote buying. As it happens, the PPP Parliament President was charged and convicted of vote buying. 

This means that the PPP is set to be dissolved, unless it can push thru the amends post haste. Hence the need of the PAD to up the ante and get them out before they can grant themselves amnesty. 

I have no idea why this isn't mentioned more often or needs explaining further. 

[blaze]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

Well, I agree that a really developed society wudnt form a mob which marches on to government district.

specialy because they wouldn't have a bunch of criminals as their government.

There is not a government on this planet that some group does not regard as criminal.

[Seizhin]

Sammak's vote buying had to be cleared by the law.

PAD's movements to seize those areas by means that they had officially broken the law, there are no peaceful protest if you had broken the law.

It's easily concluded that Thailand's protest law are far weaker than any other countries and that the military are the one who's seriously holding power in Thailand.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Seizhin

[Thaising]

from the nation:

Samak avoids media at Don Muang Military Airport

An army of reporters and photographers waited for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej at the Don Muang Military Airport until 8 pm but he did not show up.

The media went there to wait for him on expectation that the prime minister would hold a press conference once he arrived from Hua Hin.

It was believed that the military plane was rerouted to land at the Air Force headquarters instead.

The Nation

According to rumor, he may announce to step down tomorrow during special parliamentary session, that’s why he is avoiding those reporters waiting at the military airport.

[blaze]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that many posters are simply unaware of the context of these protests. One of the articles of the constitution that the PPP wanted amended was article 237 concerning the dissolution of political parties that had executives involved in vote buying. As it happens, the PPP Parliament President was charged and convicted of vote buying. 

This means that the PPP is set to be dissolved, unless it can push thru the amends post haste. Hence the need of the PAD to up the ante and get them out before they can grant themselves amnesty. 

I have no idea why this isn't mentioned more often or needs explaining further. 

Has it been dissolved? And as things stand it has the legal mandate to change the constitution. You don't have to like that - but if we are genuinely concerned with the application of law in Thailand- then we must respect the current status of the government. Otherwise we have taken it upon ourselves to become the judges of who can govern and who can't. I'm surprised that the PAD which claims to want to bring the rule of law into government doesn't recognize this.

As things stand this is the govenment- and they have the constitutional ability to initiate changes to the constitution.

Edited August 30, 2008 by blaze

[Thaising]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that many posters are simply unaware of the context of these protests. One of the articles of the constitution that the PPP wanted amended was article 237 concerning the dissolution of political parties that had executives involved in vote buying. As it happens, the PPP Parliament President was charged and convicted of vote buying. 

This means that the PPP is set to be dissolved, unless it can push thru the amends post haste. Hence the need of the PAD to up the ante and get them out before they can grant themselves amnesty. 

I have no idea why this isn't mentioned more often or needs explaining further. 

Spot on. in fact there is more than one constitution articles that this coalition government want to amend to save their boss.

[Thaising]

from the nation:

Samak avoids media at Don Muang Military Airport

An army of reporters and photographers waited for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej at the Don Muang Military Airport until 8 pm but he did not show up.

The media went there to wait for him on expectation that the prime minister would hold a press conference once he arrived from Hua Hin.

It was believed that the military plane was rerouted to land at the Air Force headquarters instead.

The Nation

According to rumor, he may announce to step down tomorrow during special parliamentary session, that’s why he is avoiding those reporters waiting at the military airport.

Samak avoids media at Don Muang Military Airport

An army of reporters and photographers waited for Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej at the Don Muang Military Airport until 8 pm but he did not show up.

The media went there to wait for him on expectation that the prime minister would hold a press conference once he arrived from Hua Hin.

It was believed that the military plane was rerouted to land at the Air Force headquarters instead.

His absence from the plane makes the rumour about the establishment of National Government stronger. Samak is reportedly calling an urgent meeting with other parties at a loca hotel.

The Nation

[Seizhin]

Airports are seized and the Train stations had ceased working.

Other major problems here and there..

As an investor in Thailand, I've to go with whatever that ends this thing fast, and that would include Mr. Sammak to come down from the throne and the Thai Rak Thai former Ministers to stop all of their political actions.

Maybe just let the Democrat rise, but maybe Thaksin will try to seek revenge that way.

Anyways, just end this mob fast, and us investors would be more than happy that the politics are improving.

[h90]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

First of all what is government property??? It is of course owned by the people, not the government....just to clear that point.

If they would have walked into the Reichstag (Hitler) or the White house to oust Bush, how many people wouldn't have died?

Spiked clubs look bad, but how harmful are against buying votes (so that is not democratic in any way) making laws and kill thousands (war against drugs).

And not to forget the clubs were for DEFENSE not for attack

[lucky2103]

But the final question remains: Will Samak fall or not ?

[blaze]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me that many posters are simply unaware of the context of these protests. One of the articles of the constitution that the PPP wanted amended was article 237 concerning the dissolution of political parties that had executives involved in vote buying. As it happens, the PPP Parliament President was charged and convicted of vote buying. 

This means that the PPP is set to be dissolved, unless it can push thru the amends post haste. Hence the need of the PAD to up the ante and get them out before they can grant themselves amnesty. 

I have no idea why this isn't mentioned more often or needs explaining further. 

Spot on. in fact there is more than one constitution articles that this coalition government want to amend to save their boss.

So what?

Are you advocating government by lynch mob or government by law?

If the PAD is not advocating government by law but rather the 'decible theory of justice'- they are in no position to condemn Thaksin for not recognizing the law of the land.

[catmac]

It's certainly no wonder why the government isn't welcome (and holds no seats) in the south. Bag, trucks and asphixiation...well I guess it got rid of those dam_n dirty protestors!

Are you refering to PAD's new leader, Gen. Pallop who slaughtered all those Moslems at the Krue Sae Mosque? No? I thought not, you all seem so quiet on that point.

[frodo]

How long can the PAD stay that is a very good question. I think they have already stayed longer then anyone anticipated, certianly Mr. Samak.

But the truth is there is a lot at stake here for all the parties involved.

Another good question would be how long can the government hold out? already being referred to as lane duck.

There a big unknowns as to time lines. Pad obviously has money and seems to have the backing of Labor Unions, which changes thier numbers dramatically. Just read where 158 flights have now been cancelled.

So how long I don't have the wildest idea. I doubt that the Country can afford to wait six months with them.

This has effected the Coutry in may ways, not just what we see a Govermnt house. Farmers produce rotting at train stations, thats a loss to somebody.

The things you here to he most about is the loss to the Thai Stock Market and the Tourist Trade. But the real losses are going beyond just those two.

My view is that the labor unions pose the biggest threat to Samak. The closing of the railways showed resolve many never believed possible. EGAT's threat to black out the north all of a sudden became credible. And then there is the closing of the three airports. Thailand has never had a general strike, but all of a sudden this seems possible. What a huge embarrassment for this coalition.

Agree with that! PPP has never been a credible government from the start. Since they've been elected, nothing has been accomplished. With the current threat of a general strike, Samak continues to be oblivious to the very real problems Thailand is facing. While he screams out he was appointed and will not step down for the sake of the country, his country is quickly going downward fast due to his pigheadedness (pun intended) and obstinacy. He needs to step down.

Well some things were accomplished: Red Passport for Thaksin, a quick deal with Cambodia.....

That's not nothing.

My error...nothing positive or a step in the right direction had occurred.

[lucky2103]

What I dont understand is the continued talk abt whether tear gas is a weapon or not.

In any developed country, a raid of the government district surely wud hv been answered with rubber bullets and tear gas.

Imaging, protesters march on to the White House is Washington and raid it.

you are right, but I doubt that it is a sign of being developed....

WHAT? that the invasion of a government property by a group with the avowed aim of regime change would be met with force is a sign of an "Un"developed democracy?

So in a developed democracy folks intent on booting out the government, legitimized by the way, by Royal fiat, can just wander in with spiked clubs and bad pseudo-folk music and kind of take over?

I don't think so.

First of all what is government property??? It is of course owned by the people, not the government....just to clear that point.

If they would have walked into the Reichstag (Hitler) or the White house to oust Bush, how many people wouldn't have died?

Spiked clubs look bad, but how harmful are against buying votes (so that is not democratic in any way) making laws and kill thousands (war against drugs).

And not to forget the clubs were for DEFENSE not for attack

Oh no, pls dont use that comparison (Hitler, The Reichstag). It has nothing to do with todays events.

[Seizhin]

But the final question remains: Will Samak fall or not ?

He's falling, and he will fall.

[philstone]

I never know whether to believe TOC, but they are reporting that DAAD is grouping at Suan Luang and that they will send between 300-500 to ASTV to shut it down. Also, apparently one of the PAD leaders has asked approx. 2000 to go to ASTV and protect it. It was reported that he said they could protect themselves anyway they saw fit since this is private property.

I do hope all of the above is BS, but that is what is being reported.

I think both sides should invited former President Jimmy Carter of America to bring these groups together and build houses for the poor.

We all have to pray for peace.