What Does It Take For Thai's To Listen

[ray23]

everytime I do that she takes the key away

[sgunn65]

I have to say I agree totally with the OP.

I run a small business with 14 Thai staff. When I started I tried the tolerant, I respect your culture and your ways bit. That was until I realised what a mug i was being taken for. Now we work on a Western model. My wife (who manages the Thai staff) is no longer allowed to justify stupidity with a giggle and "Its the Thai way" she has to tell the staff. I work on the basis that my 14 Rai's are a corner of a foreign land that is forever England and if they work here then they work our way.

It has not been easy!!! 50% of the staff have been changed in 4 months and we still have a long way to go. Even though we pay 30% more than they would get locally and provide language lessons it is still an uphill struggle especially when they patently don't understand something but pretend they do. If I could find a way to explain to my staff that not understanding is perfectly acceptable and the sky won't fall in on them then i would be a happy man. But this never say you dont understand attitude seems so ingrained that however many times we tell our staff they still do it. This morning one of my western staff asked for beans with her scrambled eggs, the waitress took the eggs away then nothing. After 5 minutes I went in to ask where it was. I found the scrambled eggs sitting on the side and the waitress chatting to the cook!!!! A boiled egg was being prepared. Go figure!!

" Its the thai way" as you wife has explained to you already!

roy gsd

It maybe the Thai way but it is not my way!!!!! And since I pay the wages and my business is not a democracy its my way that goes. I maybe a barely tolerated guest but it doesn't mean I have to become Thai or accept within my business the Thai way. Outside I am tolerant and accept the difficulties that come with being a stranger in a strange land, I may not like it but I do accept it.

[HS Mauberley]

When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

[LivinLOS]

The main issue in this thread is people making huge generalization about Thais based on their experience with a very small segment of the population. Add to that the fact thta in many cases that segment tends to be at the bottom of the economic and education spectrum and that there is indeed a significant difference in culture, they are incorrectly lead to believe all Thais behave similarly.

The OP and his drop cloth issue is a classic example of the western stereotypical control freak. What he should have done was just left the house and let them get on with it, he was just making it worse. You have to learn when you can make an impact and when you are just wasting your time.

TH

But then they damage everything as they dont have an understanding or comprehension of maintaining nice things.. Like the Thai in his pickup that swings his car door into the side of my car..

When they have a concrete or vinyl floor what harm is a few drops of paint ?? But you have a marble or hardwood floor and you dont want them to trash it !! To them its a non issue, but if your trying to live nicely here the frustrations pile up.

[cloudhopper]

Boy does this thread bring back Fellini-esque memories of getting my place built! Concepts like level, square, plumb, even, symmetrical.... All I can say is I'm glad it's over with and I don't envy anyone else doing it.

[gymshark]

When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

I think it's just people speaking as they find.

[Samuian]

When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

And where on a scale of "f*cking idiots" from 0-10, with this kind of language and ' well chosen arguments' would you put yourself, Sir?

Remember: RTA! Read, Think, Answer!

[petitechevre]

When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

maybe from your ghetto a 5yo kid is a total retard.. but from where i come from, he already has an idea that sitting with wet paint on a seat is gonna taint it.

If a grown thai male working construction all his life does not understand that, there is nothing wrong in threating him like an idiot when you clearly pay him to do YOUR WORK and clearly gave him clothes to COVER himself. he failed his work, he disrecpected you therefore he needs to be punished, that is how kids work.

OP is just real unlucky because anything related to renovating a house to building one is never gonna have a decent ending in thailand, you may get some of the best of them, it'll still look crappy compared to a basic job in western countries.. my house was done by the best wood guy in phuket and yet theres a bunch of corners done badly, the doors dont fit perfectly..

the whole house lot here as uneven foundations.

the stairs are off by half a foot... so yes you cannot expect a low paid thai to do a perfect job, but putting a <deleted> clothe under his ass when asked to.. doesnt take a genius.. they train dogs to do that in 1 day. if he cannot complete such a retarded task, why should he earn the respect of the guy PAYING him to do something a dog learns in 1 day(see a 2 hours session)

[ade100]

I don't want any confusion about this, this a definetly a RANT

Things have gotten so bad around the house with people not listening it resulting in major problems.

I'll just give two examples. We were having painting done to get drop cloths down masking tape to be used was five times a day reminder. It was like following kids around finger painting. Even with that one brillant individual climbs in the a new well kept pickup with paint on thier back of thier shirt, result one ruined car seat.

Well I've just had an even worse experience.

Just bought a condo in Singapore which was filthy and badly decorated. I got a team in to clean it, strip the wallpaper, sand it down and paint it a tasteful off-white colour.

Day 1, the bossman comes and I spend 15 minutes explaining everything I want doing. Three days later I come back and it's all done perfectly. How boring is that!

[a2396]

I don't want any confusion about this, this a definetly a RANT

Things have gotten so bad around the house with people not listening it resulting in major problems.

I'll just give two examples. We were having painting done to get drop cloths down masking tape to be used was five times a day reminder. It was like following kids around finger painting. Even with that one brillant individual climbs in the a new well kept pickup with paint on thier back of thier shirt, result one ruined car seat.

Well I've just had an even worse experience.

Just bought a condo in Singapore which was filthy and badly decorated. I got a team in to clean it, strip the wallpaper, sand it down and paint it a tasteful off-white colour.

Day 1, the bossman comes and I spend 15 minutes explaining everything I want doing. Three days later I come back and it's all done perfectly. How boring is that!

Singapore sure ain't Thailand. I have a freind who will be having a house built to his specifications (he hopes) in Thailand. Any suggestions?

[cloudhopper]

I have a freind who will be having a house built to his specifications (he hopes) in Thailand. Any suggestions?

Specifications?

[imaneggspurt]

When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

maybe from your ghetto a 5yo kid is a total retard.. but from where i come from, he already has an idea that sitting with wet paint on a seat is gonna taint it.

If a grown thai male working construction all his life does not understand that, there is nothing wrong in threating him like an idiot when you clearly pay him to do YOUR WORK and clearly gave him clothes to COVER himself. he failed his work, he disrecpected you therefore he needs to be punished, that is how kids work.

OP is just real unlucky because anything related to renovating a house to building one is never gonna have a decent ending in thailand, you may get some of the best of them, it'll still look crappy compared to a basic job in western countries.. my house was done by the best wood guy in phuket and yet theres a bunch of corners done badly, the doors dont fit perfectly..

the whole house lot here as uneven foundations.

the stairs are off by half a foot... so yes you cannot expect a low paid thai to do a perfect job, but putting a <deleted> clothe under his ass when asked to.. doesnt take a genius.. they train dogs to do that in 1 day. if he cannot complete such a retarded task, why should he earn the respect of the guy PAYING him to do something a dog learns in 1 day(see a 2 hours session)

Yes unlike some of tvs millionaires we are talking about mainly lower paid workers from predominantly issan ,not university educated building contractors,..seems most arent just uneducated but are uneucationable ( is that a word ) !

[Maigo6]

But then they damage everything as they dont have an understanding or comprehension of maintaining nice things.. Like the Thai in his pickup that swings his car door into the side of my car..

When they have a concrete or vinyl floor what harm is a few drops of paint ?? But you have a marble or hardwood floor and you dont want them to trash it !! To them its a non issue, but if your trying to live nicely here the frustrations pile up.

To live nicely here means having a Farang mindset ?

Whats so hard about cleaning paint off a marble floor ?

I think you should move.

[Maigo6]

When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

I agree...........

It's strange that the posters who never stop whining and moaning, still stay in Thailand, and <deleted> ever bought them to a developing country expecting it to be anything else other than a developing country in the first place ?

If you want everything to be the same as it is ' Back Home' why the fawk didn't you stay back home!

Jeeez, I actually feel for the poor Thai women that have to suffer such bigots!

[maccaroni man]

The OP asked What it takes to get them to listen? translation; Thais don't listen, well here is a good example. my 9 yr old son and I were in the states this summer and I asked him to tell the waitress we need something. He came back and said with great surprise and excitment in his voice: Dad she lsitened to me. I asked: So, what did you expect? He replied: "At home (koh samui) they don't look at me and just blow me off when I try to talk to them" from the mouth of babes!

[gymshark]

When you have tried to get things done in Africa you would look upon the Thai as being elite and attentive by comparison.

[Maigo6]

The OP asked What it takes to get them to listen? translation; Thais don't listen, well here is a good example. my 9 yr old son and I were in the states this summer and I asked him to tell the waitress we need something. He came back and said with great surprise and excitment in his voice: Dad she lsitened to me. I asked: So, what did you expect? He replied: "At home (koh samui) they don't look at me and just blow me off when I try to talk to them" from the mouth of babes!

So you sent your 9 year old son to make orders, and he was surprised when she understood him, why ?

Does he speak English in USA, in Thailand does he speak Thai ?

So if I order something in a Thai Restaurant in Thailand and everything is to my satisfaction, does that mean I have better communication skills than you ?

I really think that you're lookling for any reason to put Thai people down...not that it's unusual on this forum.

If you had better communication skills, ( Learn the language ) many of your so called problems will be solved.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Maigo6

[wolf5370]

Another little story. A few years back I was in the UK helping at the Thai Food Fesitival in London (saw some of you there). We had a satll that was a charity stall (I'll avoid absolute detail to protect the stupid). The Monks had brought a large hand painted banner to go across the mouth of the stall (it was a large double 'room' with three sides and a roof in canvass around a box steel frame and joined to other 'stalls' on either side). It was going to be a nasty day with strong winds and stormy weather, but as it was early it was slightly milder with drizzle and light winds.

So, anyway, a group of the Thai helpers went off in search of something to use to hold up the banner. They come back with two narrow sticks about twelve feet in length - I told them it was not strong enough - and shore enough they both snapped before they got them erect. Some other guys come back with some more steel boxing framework, so they use this to make a 2D (i.e. flat) goal post shaped holder for the banner - which was about 15 feet or so wide. Then they proceeded to lash it to the front of the tent.

I was again ignored as I pointed out that it was best to level it with the cross bar (at the top) or the tent as this would support it. They wanted it high, so pushed it up another four feet - meaning the downpoles where tied four feet from the ground and standing on air. They ignored the rope I found for them, preferring to use string! After about half an hour or so of them baddly lashing the poles together (one know at the bottom, twist the string around untl you reach the top and another knot) and it was up. Five minutes later a gust of wind ctaches the taught banner and snapps the string and slam the goalposts come crashing down. So, they suddenly decide to line it up with the cross bar - but still refuse to use the rope (good useable pollyprop rope) and use sting and a few twisted coathangers. I tried to show them how to lash the poles properly and to choke the rope (string) to hold it - and only one Thai girl listened and did it. The wind icked up and the string started to pop again - the wire just unwound with the weight of the steelboxing.

In the end - I just waited for them to finish (again) and then went around - with the girl - and lashed it all up with the rope. Incidently, they girl tried to tell them how to lash after I showed her too - and was also ignored, they even unwound her lashing, which were fairly good, to replace it with twisted string! She just looked at me and shrugged - as comfounded as me.

It did have me in stitches tough as the whole thing came crashing to the ground 5 minutes after they go it up - frightened the bageebers out of everyone.

Moral of the story - if they will not listen, then let them get on with it. Have a good laugh at the outcome and then do it again yourself.

PS: About the paint. I have a hardwood floor and I found that putting sheets down doesn't help stopping paint getting on your floor completely - some always soaks through (if metrial) or pools and dribbles around the edges (plastic). And a quick wash with white spirit afterwards is often much quicker than the sheets - and more effective. Maybe this is what they planned.

[ray23]

"When I read read racist <deleted> like this ('treat them all like 5 year olds' <deleted>?) I wonder whether it's Thailand that attracts f*cking idiots in such large numbers or just Thaivisa.

I agree...........

It's strange that the posters who never stop whining and moaning, still stay in Thailand, and <deleted> ever bought them to a developing country expecting it to be anything else other than a developing country in the first place ?

If you want everything to be the same as it is ' Back Home' why the fawk didn't you stay back home!

Jeeez, I actually feel for the poor Thai women that have to suffer such bigots! "

You know I don't agree with the racist comments either. but I don't agree with ASSumption that they farrang is wrong either.. Both represent biased oppinions

So lets see leave the house and mind your own business. Hmm!! ten drop cloths 370 Baht, one home entertaiment center 100K. well my friend do to what your suggesting would in my humble opinnion be pretty stupid behavior on my part.

Dont get me wrong the painter is good one day of watching him work and I stopped using making tape had that much confidence in him But does that make him a perfect being I got drop cloths covered with paint that say I was right. It's not on the furnitire or floors it's on the walls where it belongs.

The guy meant well but he was used to working in new construction and as he said he was neat. But there is big difference in working in a fully furnished occupied home.

He is a dam_n good worker means well, we are moving the entertainment center. The first thing he did was grab one of the large speaker with paint all over his hands. It was wet and we got it off quickly. I didn't get angry it got cleaned up and there was no harm. I also made sure I didn't happen again. So you suck up some suds while the painting is being done if thats what you like. Me I will continue to do just like I'm doing. unless you guys want to replace my ruined firniture, then I will do it your way. Don't ASSume that we all live in grass shacks here.

So if that makes racist buddy that is exactly what I am. If should have stayed the "FAWK" sorry to late.

I would say off hand that you two have forgotten that prejudice can runs in two directions

Do you guys think this house belongs to me. Come on you know better then that, so shoot me I want my wife to have a nice home and good furniture.

Does she know how to maintain something like this, Why would she has never had anything like this in her life.

So the entire point was in the first place why won't they listen.

I'm the one with the experience, not her, not the painter, not the houskeeper or Auntie.

Got a roof leak in one room now, I won't say a word about it. I will watch and learn from the Thai. But I'm not to arrogant to admit that I don't know something and listen to someone who does.

I would a ASSume you guys know that if you leave a roof leak long enough you will end replacing the entire ceiling? My wife didn't know that it was just a little spot Mai Bpen Lai. She is not stupid she just doesn't know. So again why won't they listen to someone who does know. took four days to get her to get a roofer out, finally gave up and did it myself. that little spot has now grown about six inches around.

Many have made a lot of ASSumption through out this entire thread, when the fact is I'm here I know what is happening you don't.

The question stands cause you guys have now gotten my attention.

I will clean it up a bit cause some guys were right I can learn to. So the question is now why do some Thais refuse to listen. Learn a little Thai and just listen you think we are racist, you might learn just something.

We were out on a ride one time and as we pull into this country place to get some coffee a Thai guy says to the women there hide the little girls farrangs rape them. he was smiling at us all the time.

I don't know about you guys but I live in the real world here. Thai's are about a perfect as farrangs. They come all kind of shapes some good some bad.

The Budhist relegion and real life is very different. Kind polite and gentle people. yep some of them are, but not all. You know the cops pulled a lot of guns knives an clubsOff some kind polite and gentle people yesterday in a News Studio. , Don't be so quick to judge.

Prejudice is Prejudice no matter where it is directed.

[imaneggspurt]

The OP asked What it takes to get them to listen? translation; Thais don't listen, well here is a good example. my 9 yr old son and I were in the states this summer and I asked him to tell the waitress we need something. He came back and said with great surprise and excitment in his voice: Dad she lsitened to me. I asked: So, what did you expect? He replied: "At home (koh samui) they don't look at me and just blow me off when I try to talk to them" from the mouth of babes!

And speaking Thai dosent help,! i have a very good friend thats a doctor here and is fluent, its even worse for him as they DO understand him and still do it wrong !,.Reading some posters comments here i think they are in a different Thailand to some of us,.and its to be expected that some members have come galloping in as Thai defenders and to you i say you are lucky if you have never expereinced some of the problems others are discussing,.but to say it dosent exist is a joke,.

[Maigo6]

The OP asked What it takes to get them to listen? translation; Thais don't listen, well here is a good example. my 9 yr old son and I were in the states this summer and I asked him to tell the waitress we need something. He came back and said with great surprise and excitment in his voice: Dad she lsitened to me. I asked: So, what did you expect? He replied: "At home (koh samui) they don't look at me and just blow me off when I try to talk to them" from the mouth of babes!

And speaking Thai dosent help,! i have a very good friend thats a doctor here and is fluent, its even worse for him as they DO understand him and still do it wrong !,.Reading some posters comments here i think they are in a different Thailand to some of us,.and its to be expected that some members have come galloping in as Thai defenders and to you i say you are lucky if you have never expereinced some of the problems others are discussing,.but to say it dosent exist is a joke,.

On the other hand, no mistakes are ever made in Western countries........................... what a load of B%$#@cks.

[wolf5370]

Ah, you see when I paint a room - or have it painted - I remove the furniture/curtains/non-fixtures (let alone the 100k entertainment system!). If I/They get paint on the skirting board, then either a wet cloth, white spirit or a new dab of gloss and alls well. After cleaning the floor with white spirit and then polishing it - it also looks like its been newly varnished, so that's good too. Use boards to put the paint tin on (on use smaller trays to ferry the paint, so drops are less likely.

I do always use floor coverings if rollering though as the paint flicks everywhere whatever you do.

[ray23]

No mistakes in the western world is that what yuo are saying cause I know I sure didn't.

A different part of Thailand now that might be very true I live just outside Udon. It is very different then Bangkok for example.

[ray23]

"Ah, you see when I paint a room - or have it painted - I remove the furniture/curtains/non-fixtures (let alone the 100k entertainment system!). If I/They get paint on the skirting board, then either a wet cloth, white spirit or a new dab of gloss and alls well. After cleaning the floor with white spirit and then polishing it - it also looks like its been newly varnished, so that's good too. Use boards to put the paint tin on (on use smaller trays to ferry the paint, so drops are less likely.

I do always use floor coverings if rollering though as the paint flicks everywhere whatever you do."

That seems a good approach to me. Rollers were used for everything except cutting in the corners. We removed everything we could then centered everything else in the room and covered it.

We really had less then ten mins clean up in each room. Got to it fast with a damp cloth did the trick nicely.

Except for the person sitting in the truck seat no lasting damage.

[imaneggspurt]

The OP asked What it takes to get them to listen? translation; Thais don't listen, well here is a good example. my 9 yr old son and I were in the states this summer and I asked him to tell the waitress we need something. He came back and said with great surprise and excitment in his voice: Dad she lsitened to me. I asked: So, what did you expect? He replied: "At home (koh samui) they don't look at me and just blow me off when I try to talk to them" from the mouth of babes!

And speaking Thai dosent help,! i have a very good friend thats a doctor here and is fluent, its even worse for him as they DO understand him and still do it wrong !,.Reading some posters comments here i think they are in a different Thailand to some of us,.and its to be expected that some members have come galloping in as Thai defenders and to you i say you are lucky if you have never expereinced some of the problems others are discussing,.but to say it dosent exist is a joke,.

On the other hand, no mistakes are ever made in Western countries........................... what a load of B%$#@cks.

Is your wife controlling your replies ? .whats western countries got to do with it ? ,,arent we discussing SOME Thais ?

[Maigo6]

What I do Ray is, do it myself, then after I've made a total F%@K up of the job, I get some Thai guys in to put things right, then I wonder why I didn't employ them in the first place.

Then again,. if Thai people are so dissapointing, I'm sure you could employ a few Farang 'Tradesmen' who are on the bones of their azz looking to make their rent money.

This country must be awash with skilled educated Farangs looking for an opportunity.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Maigo6

[ray23]

Tell you what I think we have hit that point where I'm not goign to change your mind and your not going to change mine. So very little to discuss, unless we just want to keep on with mud slinging. I prefer not to do that. So it is best you think as you want and I do the same and we both will be happy.

[LivinLOS]

But then they damage everything as they dont have an understanding or comprehension of maintaining nice things.. Like the Thai in his pickup that swings his car door into the side of my car..

When they have a concrete or vinyl floor what harm is a few drops of paint ?? But you have a marble or hardwood floor and you dont want them to trash it !! To them its a non issue, but if your trying to live nicely here the frustrations pile up.

To live nicely here means having a Farang mindset ?

Whats so hard about cleaning paint off a marble floor ?

I think you should move.

If you take an average Thai (say 15k per month salary, a generous average even) and then have them doing work in a nice standard of villa, how would they be expected to have an appreciation for what needs to be done.. My farang contractor adds additional 'spare' ductwork in the home theater to later draw different video cabling to the projector as standards change.. Can you picture a Thai contractor ever considering the future in this way ?? Simple concepts like mirroring tilework to be perfectly symetrical on a floor or wall !! I go in 5 star hotels and they dont do this yet the most basic tile layer in the west would know its needed on a nice job.

My point is they dont have the frame of reference for high end western standards, I see it all the time with the rush of new Thai 'villa' developers who think they are going to sell Phuket villas in the 25m - 40m range yet really dont have a clue what 'quality' means in this market. I am not saying that no Thais have an appreciation for nice things, but I am saying that on average, most 'normal' Thais dont have as much of an idea what quality in items means. Look at all the audiophile stereo shops ?? The Home Theater installers ?? the home automation installers ?? etc etc etc. Now those things all exist on Phuket, thanks to the farang marketplace, but I dont image you get too many in Khon Khen.

As for paint on a marble floor, if you have unsealed marble its porus, even something like red wine spill can stain a marble floor, hel_l even water can stain marble, in a kitchen.. I guess you havent owned one ?

[Maigo6]

Tell you what I think we have hit that point where I'm not goign to change your mind and your not going to change mine. So very little to discuss, unless we just want to keep on with mud slinging. I prefer not to do that. So it is best you think as you want and I do the same and we both will be happy.

Difference being, you won't be happy and I will.

[gymshark]

I had to try and get this retarded bird in the True shop to listen, nearly made steam come out of my eyes.

I was canceling my internet and phone line from old appt. and the Mrs who was with me wanted to take a new one in her name at the new appt.

Bird says to Mrs you have to wait until one week after the line has been disconnected before you can apply for a new one.

Anyway we explained 4 times how her new application had nothing to do with my old one as we were different people but could this idiot get it through her skull? No. Me and Mrs had a row too because I was getting pissed at this woman and Mrs said, well she doesn't know she just sits and answers questions! Of course this set me off again about how workers should know their job/product.

Anyway, I made my feelings known to this grinning imbecile and went outside, called True, put the Mrs on the phone and we had an engineer at the next day.

You can lead a horse to water but sometimes it is too dumb to drink.

PS. This kind of stupidity happens in UK too, just not as stupid.

Welcome to amazing Thailand, we love to complain about it but where would we rather be?