What Does It Take For Thai's To Listen

[kartman]

The main problem is Thai and Western culture, Thais do not/dare not tell anybody when they are, or do something stupid, loss of face etc . In the west being told this you may put up a front denying this(could be true) but on reflection may decide, yes they were right i was stupid,must try not to do that again!.

In Thailand this does not happen so they think STUPID IS NORMAL, the trouble is you can't tell wether this is true or they are acting.

[meadish_sweetball]

The main problem is Thai and Western culture, Thais do not/dare not tell anybody when they are, or do something stupid, loss of face etc

The norm says you should not, yes.

However, many times out and about here in Chiang Mai I've seen Thais scolding workers and serving personnel, sometimes in a much more aggressive and condescending way than I would ever dream of doing.

So it would appear a fair number of people do not follow the norm. Also, note that who can scold who and get away with it, is a matter of hierarchy and personal relations.

[bina]

Thais do not/dare not tell anybody when they are, or do something stupid, loss of face etc

REALLY!??

my husband just quit his job after telling his boss that the other (israeli) workers are a bunch of lazy morons and HE, (my husband-the lowly issaan thai peon) wasnt willing to take the blame for them -- they take ciggie breaks every five minutes, when the boss isnt looking they dont clean and chop the veggies like they should, they spend more time on the cell phone with girl friend/boyfriend problems then they do on the meat preparation, and he is busting his butt... he is a hard worker, organized, but likes things planned ahead, with clear instructions, clear expectations, and clear amounts of money settled ahead of time. for an ex-monk, my husband is very hot tempered, but hard working and intelligent, but no education or real skills... so obviously 1. every culture has its way of 'work'... and 2. possibly u having your wife tell the workers what to do has things 'lost in tranlsation' since u dont speak thai very well (from what i understood anyway)...

3. a sucker is born every minute

4. double gate the house the dog wont get out... i got sick of paying for my boxers' chewing up the kibbutz dog habits, so double gate... no more escaped dogs

5. instead of trying to do everything the way u think it should get done, try to find out how THEY would do it... sometimes THEY have a better way, more logical, OR, to them, getting paint on the floor and then cleaning isnt such a hassle as it is to u....

YOUR WAY is not always the BEST WAY just cause u do it back home.

6. someone doesnt work properly, then fire them. do u think for one minute that anon's mother would keep someone to work in her rice fields if they screwed up and stomped on the seedlings??? get a grip...

i've worked with thai workers for 7+ years and will take thai workers any day compared to european/american workers who have issues, problems, requests, demands, physical limitations, 'small headed' , no endurance, cant improvise when there is a problem, must have rules to follow or cant deal.... drunk or not drunk, thai workers get the job done well, quietly, no fuss no muss,

but the elephant story is exactly the point.... with animals or people, start tough, then go easy... (i was a house mother for two years and we always started very hard on the kids, and then eased offf, it was easier then the do good types that would be all poopsy moopsy with the kids and then try to come down on them... that never worked. tough and fair and firm....

bina

israel

[gymshark]

It's true, I have worked in Israel and the workers there were very arrogant which was all the more surprising since they didn't know what the hel_l they were doing. Using backward software and their technical expertise was a joke. I would take Thai workers over them any day too.

[teacup]

I don’t know but to me….the title should be

What Does It Take For some Thais I’m dealing with To Listen,

Or,

What Does It Take For the Thais I’m dealing with To Listen

Not…..

What Does It Take For Thai’s To Listen

Hmm……It’s “again” too generalized to me, like saying “all thais” are deaf, don’t listen well, don’t care much, ignorant, and/or STUPID!!

[LivinLOS]

So what happens today house keeper lets the dog out, he heads right for the other dog who had been tormenting him for two years and this time he goes right into the peoples yard and chews him a new ass.

I got a shirt on went over and found out what happened and told the lady to take obnoxiuos asshol_e dog to the vet and bring me the bill.

Erm.. 'obnoxious asshol_e dog' ??

Seems like it your dog doing the damage !!!

Tho I agree with the basic subtext of the rant.. Had builders put in a kitchen and needed to be constantly watched for mistakes, literally minute by minute as they broke from the detailed design drawings the boss had left.

Just put a motorbike in for engine work, agreed precisely what was to be done.. Come back 3 days later, hed decided to do something totally differently, ended up wrecking the engine, unable to get new parts (despite trying to charge me for those same 'imaginary' parts on an invoice), and then when challenged to at least make it back to how it was threw his arms in the air like a child, had an argument with his wife, and walked out the back of the shop.

Basically its a rare interaction that you can price a job, go away and have it done to spec, doesnt seem to make a difference if paying low or high prices. It does get old fast.

[LivinLOS]

just because it sounds like you guys are surrounded by dimwits (perhaps via where you live, your wife, who knows) please don't cast aspersions on all Thai people.

It kind of makes you seem like dimwits yourselves.

Not all of us are complete twits.

Its funny I see this thread now.. As I just saw a intelligent post of yours that got crossposted re the PAD situation and types of people involved.. I was thinking a few hours back how it must be a different mindset (maybe my imagination) living in Bangkok and the kind of urbanites you post about.. As living in a tourist island and in my day to day dealings I dont meet these kind of people.

I dont mean by that people only from the 'bar trades' (as everyone can jump on that topic) but the entire cross section of pay for no work, expect everything for nothing, rampant greed combined with basic stupidity that baffles me.

I could start listing of examples but really whats the point.

[ray23]

Boker Tov Bena I worked a Jewish school in LA for three years. I saw just as much arrogance as your husband. I also worked in Kuwait which was even worse.

The topic was about getting Thai's to listen. I said it was a rant and it was.

As to how I want things done in my house not a cultural thing, when you pay for it you can do it anyway you want.

Title of the topic, don't like it go make one of your own.

It was a rant and clearly said so. So I guess I must be the only one who gets angry on this forum.

If it was anything but a rant I would not have put it on a forum.

You guys have a great day now

[Maigo6]

Not one of them would have a darn thing without this stupid guys help.

Ray, I think it's that type of attitude that has you so frustrated, you seem resentful. Do you think by spending money it makes Thai people robots ?

They are human and make human mistakes, just like us Farangs do.

If this had happened in USA, would you start a thread about " Why don't USA people listen " ?

I'm sure dogs have accidently been let out of gates just about everywhere in the world, my dogs got out last week by accident too, it just happens.

What if you had accidently let them out, would you have started a thread on " Why are Farangs so stupid " ?

Relax Ray, you'll have a heart attack at this rate.

[ray23]

I'm not a newbie been here six years if everyday had been like that I would moved years ago.

Writing helps me to release stress that all it was. So I don't have a heart attack

Didn't ask for advice or rude comments. People sometimes see only what they want to see. That up to them.

I'm having a great day today.

Hope everyone else is as well.

[Beacher]

I'm quite surprised that this thread has survived.

I thought there were rules about racist comments in TV post, yet this one seems almost dedicated to making racist slurs -- many posts that call Thais stupid -- more that claim Israelis are lazy and worse than Thais -- another that says Kuwaitis are even worse again.

I don't really care what people say, and I don't belong to any of the ethnic groups mentioned, so I'm not taking anything personal here. I'm just surprised that nobody's put the kibosh on this one.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Beacher

[sgunn65]

I have to say I agree totally with the OP.

I run a small business with 14 Thai staff. When I started I tried the tolerant, I respect your culture and your ways bit. That was until I realised what a mug i was being taken for. Now we work on a Western model. My wife (who manages the Thai staff) is no longer allowed to justify stupidity with a giggle and "Its the Thai way" she has to tell the staff. I work on the basis that my 14 Rai's are a corner of a foreign land that is forever England and if they work here then they work our way.

It has not been easy!!! 50% of the staff have been changed in 4 months and we still have a long way to go. Even though we pay 30% more than they would get locally and provide language lessons it is still an uphill struggle especially when they patently don't understand something but pretend they do. If I could find a way to explain to my staff that not understanding is perfectly acceptable and the sky won't fall in on them then i would be a happy man. But this never say you dont understand attitude seems so ingrained that however many times we tell our staff they still do it. This morning one of my western staff asked for beans with her scrambled eggs, the waitress took the eggs away then nothing. After 5 minutes I went in to ask where it was. I found the scrambled eggs sitting on the side and the waitress chatting to the cook!!!! A boiled egg was being prepared. Go figure!!

[Maigo6]

I'm quite surprised that this thread has survived.

I thought there were rules about racist comments in TV post, yet this one seems almost dedicated to making racist slurs -- many posts that call Thais stupid -- more that claim Israelis are lazy and worse than Thais -- another that says Kuwaitis are even worse again.

I don't really care what people say

Obviously you do.

[Maigo6]

I have to say I agree totally with the OP.

I run a small business with 14 Thai staff.

You lose money every month ?

[Beacher]

I'm quite surprised that this thread has survived.

I thought there were rules about racist comments in TV post, yet this one seems almost dedicated to making racist slurs -- many posts that call Thais stupid -- more that claim Israelis are lazy and worse than Thais -- another that says Kuwaitis are even worse again.

I don't really care what people say

Obviously you do.

Let's include the whole line I wrote rather than the select little bit you conveniently used for your insult.

"I don't really care what people say, and I don't belong to any of the ethnic groups mentioned, so I'm not taking anything personal here. I'm just surprised that nobody's put the kibosh on this one."

Now, let me simplifiy this for you. What I meant was that I don't really care what people say about ethnic groups. I don't think it's good to be bigotted but it's a fact of life that many people feel or show prejudice. If I did worry about all the racist comments made in this world, I'd have no time to enjoy the good things.

BTW, lurking around on TV forum waiting to insult people when there's really no reason seems like a strange hobby, but I guess some people have a harder time filling their days than others.

[petitechevre]

feel your pain..

told stupid sister:

dont smoke in front of the doors.. she did it for 2weeks

then she finaly smoked one day at the gate..

next morning she's smoking in her room and in the back near the window and drying clothes.. told her id beat the shit out of her if she smoked again... she seems to undeerstand now(i have a baby and cig smoke is EXTREMELY bad for them, the whole house smells like it when shes near the doors)

Same goes for not putting food on the grass.. but no .. everytime she 'forgets' and pours her old soups in the gras.. yes please. keep the rats coming.

Same goes for not yelling like a drunk tard everytime im working.. always have to threaten violence(which i wouldnt do, id just throw her out and tell her she can never see her sister and nephew again, she has no friends so it would be hard)

That kind of thai imo are the same that watch soap shows and have no desire in life but to eat/drink... just threat them like animals.. raise your hand in the air when u want them to calm down..

Although i have met a shitton of canadians that were the same, except they were drunktards... but they did all come from 'ghetto's' so its not only thais.

[Shotime]

Someone once told me that "oblivious" best describes the mind-set you're talking about. I'm beginning to believe it's not that bad of an attitude to take. If you seriously need to have something done, you need to do it yourself. You can stand on your head, speak fluent Thai, and you can bet that it won't get done the way you want. Oblivion.

[thairookie]

The main problem is Thai and Western culture, Thais do not/dare not tell anybody when they are, or do something stupid, loss of face etc . In the west being told this you may put up a front denying this(could be true) but on reflection may decide, yes they were right i was stupid,must try not to do that again!.

In Thailand this does not happen so they think STUPID IS NORMAL, the trouble is you can't tell wether this is true or they are acting.

Kartman, the problem you highlighted is exactly what I have in mind. It's called "yom rap pit" in Thai, which means having to admit that one has done wrong. The problem with Ray23's housekeeper or another guy's computer technician is that if they had abided the instructions from their respective paymaster, it would have meant admitting to the fact that they did wrong previously. And then "yom rap pit" will then translate to "sia na" which means lose face. And "sia na" is the most BIG thing in Thai culture, as everything they do is tied to "dai na" which means "having face or feeling proud". And as a Thai if you're connected with a Farang/Tangchak, it's definitely "dan na" as far as the Thai is concerned.

You can buy them a house, you can buy them a car, you can give them incentives, but at the end of the day if you caused them to "sia na" the Thais will not remember the good deeds that you've done them. You can buy them great hardware, but you can never change their software. I used to translate that to having strong pride, but I'm not so sure now because it seems that within that "strong pride" dwells a "kor taan" as they beg and accept gifts almost spontaneously.

I don't wish to be caught "generalizing" so I will qualify by saying that it's my personal experience, including the experiences I shared with my fellow Tangchaks living in Thailand. It's easy to accuse one of generalizing because out of 60 milliion Thais in order to prove that you're not generalizing you'll have to have sampling size of 60 million. So I will say it's a common experience, not generalizing.

[roygsd]

I'm quite surprised that this thread has survived.

I thought there were rules about racist comments in TV post, yet this one seems almost dedicated to making racist slurs -- many posts that call Thais stupid -- more that claim Israelis are lazy and worse than Thais -- another that says Kuwaitis are even worse again.

I don't really care what people say, and I don't belong to any of the ethnic groups mentioned, so I'm not taking anything personal here. I'm just surprised that nobody's put the kibosh on this one.

I an heartily sick of the Racist Card being used for evey excuse under the sun, the Rants posted above are exactly that, every body Rants at times its a way of letting off steam, much more healthy I think than the Thai way ( is this a racist comment? I dont think so!) where people ( not everyone of course) suppress their feelings and when the pressure gets too much they run up the road gets a gun and kills someone for the sightest offense, be it imaginary or otherwise.

The above rants are a relection of people's experiences, nothing more and nothing less, if their experiences had been in London, New York, Cape Town, Chang Mai, Tokyo, Brussels or any other place it would have not altered the tone or the frustration felt by the poster, its not racism its human nature, get over it.

In case you havent noticed , most posters are eithe rmarried or in a relationship with a Thai person, is it really racist to complain about the wife/husband? IF so the whole world must be racist.

Whilst you say you dont belong to either of the ethnic groups mentioned, so your not taking anything personal here, I an the fact you feel the need to Rant about these postings is a measure of your personal opposition to the theme, that personal I think.

Rant over.

Roy gsd

roy gsd

[Maigo6]

Let's include the whole line I wrote rather than the select little bit you conveniently used for your insult.

You call that observation an insult.. ?

BTW, I thought you didn't care what people say!

Obviously you do.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Maigo6

[roygsd]

I have to say I agree totally with the OP.

I run a small business with 14 Thai staff. When I started I tried the tolerant, I respect your culture and your ways bit. That was until I realised what a mug i was being taken for. Now we work on a Western model. My wife (who manages the Thai staff) is no longer allowed to justify stupidity with a giggle and "Its the Thai way" she has to tell the staff. I work on the basis that my 14 Rai's are a corner of a foreign land that is forever England and if they work here then they work our way.

It has not been easy!!! 50% of the staff have been changed in 4 months and we still have a long way to go. Even though we pay 30% more than they would get locally and provide language lessons it is still an uphill struggle especially when they patently don't understand something but pretend they do. If I could find a way to explain to my staff that not understanding is perfectly acceptable and the sky won't fall in on them then i would be a happy man. But this never say you dont understand attitude seems so ingrained that however many times we tell our staff they still do it. This morning one of my western staff asked for beans with her scrambled eggs, the waitress took the eggs away then nothing. After 5 minutes I went in to ask where it was. I found the scrambled eggs sitting on the side and the waitress chatting to the cook!!!! A boiled egg was being prepared. Go figure!!

" Its the thai way" as you wife has explained to you already!

roy gsd

[Maigo6]

but I guess some people have a harder time filling their days than others.

I'm filling in my day exactly the same way you are, sitting at my computer.

I'm having a few cans of Leo at the same time.

[Beacher]

I'm quite surprised that this thread has survived.

I thought there were rules about racist comments in TV post, yet this one seems almost dedicated to making racist slurs -- many posts that call Thais stupid -- more that claim Israelis are lazy and worse than Thais -- another that says Kuwaitis are even worse again.

I don't really care what people say, and I don't belong to any of the ethnic groups mentioned, so I'm not taking anything personal here. I'm just surprised that nobody's put the kibosh on this one.

I an heartily sick of the Racist Card being used for evey excuse under the sun, the Rants posted above are exactly that, every body Rants at times its a way of letting off steam, much more healthy I think than the Thai way ( is this a racist comment? I dont think so!) where people ( not everyone of course) suppress their feelings and when the pressure gets too much they run up the road gets a gun and kills someone for the sightest offense, be it imaginary or otherwise.

The above rants are a relection of people's experiences, nothing more and nothing less, if their experiences had been in London, New York, Cape Town, Chang Mai, Tokyo, Brussels or any other place it would have not altered the tone or the frustration felt by the poster, its not racism its human nature, get over it.

In case you havent noticed , most posters are eithe rmarried or in a relationship with a Thai person, is it really racist to complain about the wife/husband? IF so the whole world must be racist.

Whilst you say you dont belong to either of the ethnic groups mentioned, so your not taking anything personal here, I an the fact you feel the need to Rant about these postings is a measure of your personal opposition to the theme, that personal I think.

Rant over.

Roy gsd

roy gsd

Relax, Roy gsd -- my post is REALLY not a rant. It just seems that there have been what I would term "less offensive threads" here on TV forum that have been quickly closed. I was only saying that this one had many comments that seem to express racism, and I was surprised that the mods have left it alone.

But that's OK, I'm not taking what you say here personally either. However, I'm surprised that some people are taking my commment personally.

[Maigo6]

But that's OK, I'm not taking what you say here personally either. However, I'm surprised that some people are taking my commment personally.

LOL, welcome to ThaiVisa......

Although I'm just a lurker waiting to hurl insults at people cos I've nothing better to do with my day, I don't take it personal either.

[Beacher]

But that's OK, I'm not taking what you say here personally either. However, I'm surprised that some people are taking my commment personally.

LOL, welcome to ThaiVisa......

Although I'm just a lurker waiting to hurl insults at people cos I've nothing better to do with my day, I don't take it personal either.

That's a nice honest comment.

[thaihome]

The main issue in this thread is people making huge generalization about Thais based on their experience with a very small segment of the population. Add to that the fact thta in many cases that segment tends to be at the bottom of the economic and education spectrum and that there is indeed a significant difference in culture, they are incorrectly lead to believe all Thais behave similarly.

The OP and his drop cloth issue is a classic example of the western stereotypical control freak. What he should have done was just left the house and let them get on with it, he was just making it worse. You have to learn when you can make an impact and when you are just wasting your time.

TH

[Maigo6]

But that's OK, I'm not taking what you say here personally either. However, I'm surprised that some people are taking my commment personally.

LOL, welcome to ThaiVisa......

Although I'm just a lurker waiting to hurl insults at people cos I've nothing better to do with my day, I don't take it personal either.

That's a nice honest comment.

As always.

The remark was made by you cos that's the way you see me, yet how can I take it personal, I wouldn't know you if you fell out of the sky and landed in my garden.

It's just a forum, taking things at a personal level is pointless cos we are unknown to each other.

[Maigo6]

The main issue in this thread is people making huge generalization about Thais based on their experience with a very small segment of the population. Add to that the fact thta in many cases that segment tends to be at the bottom of the economic and education spectrum and that there is indeed a significant difference in culture, they are incorrectly lead to believe all Thais behave similarly.

The OP and his drop cloth issue is a classic example of the western stereotypical control freak. What he should have done was just left the house and let them get on with it, he was just making it worse. You have to learn when you can make an impact and when you are just wasting your time.

TH

At last, a reasonable post.

[ray23]

Actually I'm pretty surprised it survived to and even more surprised where it went.

People have bad days and blow steam, if someone read the entire thread you would have also seen all the good things I said about them.

But. lets look at something you are paying for something to be done. Doesn't really matter where, do you expect a certain work product do for what you pay for?

Comments as to the states not where I live, the only thing effects me from there is what happen with my retiremetn. So why would I discuss something like that. Haven't been back since I left and have intention of ever going back. Thailand is home this is what effects the quality of my life.

Comments about double gates nothing wrong with that idea, but it seems to come from someone who does not realize the general size of a Thai yard in a subdivision.

Racist if you are one you would have to be a very miserable person living in any foriegn country. I certainly couldn't do it.

I saw people get all over Dom, I have known him for years. He is an intelligent exacting person. Who loves his wife with all his heart and gives from his sole. But yes sometimes it all builds up on him. He has enough money to live here and do nothing Why the fish farm, he is an active person and needs to keep busy. That farm is there for his wife to have money he dies. He had a bad day and needed to rant. What is so unusual about that? Just like me he said it was rant.

I have no children in my home, they are all adults and yes I give them the credit to know how to conduct themsleves like adults. The majority of the time they do just that.

Are they my little robots cause I pay the bills no. But ,since when is a realtionship a one way street. What do they owe simple appreciation, for all the hard work I did that gives them what they have today. Respect I've earned it.

Thai's doing things differently, when they go into areas where I know nothing. Then I sit back watch and learn. But if I buy drop cloths and I want them used. What is there to discuss. I'm paying for the service not them, not production work a daily wage, if I pay more because I decide that I want done a certain way. That is up to me.

Farrangs wanting conduct themsleves to the Thai ideal, I will when the Thai's do. In case you have missed it you will more then likely be a farrang forever and no matter how good of a person you are that is not going to change.

My goal from day one was to a have blended culture home, just because it comes from farrangville doesn't always mean it's bad, Just because it Thai doesn't always mean it's good. Blending the good from both can make a wonderul home for all.

It is amazing what has been read into a couple of guys blowing off steam.

What you don't know Dom and I were over this if a few hours, we didn't ignore it dealt with it in the best way we knew how and we will be laughing about in a few days. Not nearly as serious as some thought it was.

Oh well onto bigger and better things

Edited August 27, 2008 by ray23

[0Mix1up]

you've got motorbikes

take the mufflers off

do burnouts, allyrings, wheelies

show them your going crazy