colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Hey naam nice of you to drop in. Its just one perspective and all those guys with the phd's in economics. Well I'll just let the current situation speak for it self. So tell me you belief that there is no manipulation of the markets that were and are going on. Colibra, i don't deny but am convinced AND have proof that markets have been and are still manipulated on a daily basis. but that does not mean that i accept baseless statements like "they want a strong dollar" and that the prevailing crisis was created deliberately. i can't really think of any people who will gain from the crisis, especially if it spreads further and a real doomsday scenario (shutting down of transfers et al) surfaces. then the gold/platinum/silver/iridium/rhodium/palladium bugs who are owners of their precious metals by means of some paper, and me -the Triple A and cash bug- can wipe our @sses with the paper we have in our hands if we don't have the cash and the precious metals handy under the mattress or hidden in a cookie jar in the kitchen. even those who sit (like me) on a rather comfortable cushion of cash, triple A government bonds and what not are quite concerned (see explanation above)! of course we are not afraid, especially not us brave Klingo warriors, but every time we change our underwear we check whether the egyptian triple combed cotton is still pure white or slightly brownish. did i make myself clear? We'll NAAM I like your sense of humor. And no economics was not my strong suit. I have just been watching the way has been working for the last 50 plus years and this all seems to fit a trend. Intentional or not you know who is going to lose in the end. Not the member of the FED or the head of Goldman Sacs who is or was part of the FED. I feel they had to know where this was all heading a long time ago. You can go back 10 years and find economists warning of this eventuallity. So if these i will call them outsiders new about this house of cards that was being built, they must have also. I just don't think there as stupid as there pretending to be. I must say I have enjoyed your post NAAM. Keep up the good work. I think they want a strong dollar now as there are going to be many opportuinities to pick up things at reduced prices. If it all goes to shit none of our investments whether they be cash, gold, reallestate or bonds of what ever rating might not be worth much. I'm pretty sure if they can find a safe place to park there wealth they'll let the whole house of cards fall. I think they are in accumulation mode now. I have never been good with the little details more of a larger picture guy. I'm not saying I have it all down pat because I can see several scenarios coming out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I guess we will have to wait and see. if all this is due to the fleecing by the powers that be or simply just greed gone wild. they want a strong dollar. Perfect timing. There are a number of things that were manipulated to create this crisis. How many can you find. I'm sorry but this whole crisis was manipulated from the beginning. The fleecing is almost over for this round. Life is just one big conspiracy theory, to some folks! Yes, and. What is it that you think is the cause of this financial situation is. Oh those bad greedy people look what they've gone and done. Bad, Bad You portray current events as a scenario that has been orchestrated from day one and I don't buy that in the least. I say that today's scenario is as a result of cause and effect in that the potential ramifications of derivative trading were never fully understood at the outset and if they were, the risk assessment was incorrectly weighted by a huge degree. I have no doubt that manipulation does take place, now that we have arrived at this point, to suggest that the current scenario has been orchestrated from the outset is too far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I guess we will have to wait and see. if all this is due to the fleecing by the powers that be or simply just greed gone wild. they want a strong dollar. Perfect timing. There are a number of things that were manipulated to create this crisis. How many can you find. I'm sorry but this whole crisis was manipulated from the beginning. The fleecing is almost over for this round. Life is just one big conspiracy theory, to some folks! Yes, and. What is it that you think is the cause of this financial situation is. Oh those bad greedy people look what they've gone and done. Bad, Bad You portray current events as a scenario that has been orchestrated from day one and I don't buy that in the least. I say that today's scenario is as a result of cause and effect in that the potential ramifications of derivative trading were never fully understood at the outset and if they were, the risk assessment was incorrectly weighted by a huge degree. I have no doubt that manipulation does take place, now that we have arrived at this point, to suggest that the current scenario has been orchestrated from the outset is too far fetched. There is no doubt whatsoever American central bankers and the political branch manipulated the $USD down. I also think they may have tried to halt it's drop for an extended period near it's lows. I do not however believe they are now manipulating it higher, to this extent, and at this pace, intentionally. It suits no ones interests, least of all Americas. The dollar always had the potential energy of a very large coiled spring, but the pushing it down also had the potential to send it through the floor where they could not control it's fall. Now it seems the opposite may be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 (edited) Chiang Mai Each to there own. And the US didn't know that the Japanese were going to bomb pearl harbor ahead of time. Building seven wasn't brought down, kennedy was killed by a lone gunman, and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.. I know its a hard pill to swallow but we are talking about people who sell arms to both sides in a war. You are looking at them through your ethics not there's because many of them don't have any. If they did all these things what else are they capable of. It took me a long time to finally admit to myself that 911 was an inside job because of the implications. Not sure who the real culprits were but the Muslums on those plans were just patsies. No your right it just happened just like it happens about every 10 years that the public gets fleeced by some accident in the financial world. Right. I appreciate your input though. Edited October 26, 2008 by colibra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Drop the dollar and everybody starts investing in like lets say the housing market from other countries. The prices go up and more keep investing because everyone is making money. Until the housing market crashes. Then the stock markets around the world fall, Where is a safe place to put your money. The yen or the dollar if you let it rise. Oil prices go down inflation stalls for a while. Commodities fall fleecing a few more people along the way. nope nobodies gaining as a result. Could they do it sure. Just look at Thailand keeping up the value of the baht. Its all about consolidating wealth. Taking it from you and giving it to them. I remember when japan was buying everything in sight and created a housing bubble about 20 to 30 years ago. Many lost 50% their investment when the housing market tanked. How much wealth do you think the american people have lost in the last year and multiply that by China, europe, korea etc. A lot of wealth has moved out of the peoples hand in the last year. Who has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I guess we will have to wait and see. if all this is due to the fleecing by the powers that be or simply just greed gone wild. they want a strong dollar. Perfect timing. There are a number of things that were manipulated to create this crisis. How many can you find. I'm sorry but this whole crisis was manipulated from the beginning. The fleecing is almost over for this round. Life is just one big conspiracy theory, to some folks! Yes, and. What is it that you think is the cause of this financial situation is. Oh those bad greedy people look what they've gone and done. Bad, Bad You portray current events as a scenario that has been orchestrated from day one and I don't buy that in the least. I say that today's scenario is as a result of cause and effect in that the potential ramifications of derivative trading were never fully understood at the outset and if they were, the risk assessment was incorrectly weighted by a huge degree. I have no doubt that manipulation does take place, now that we have arrived at this point, to suggest that the current scenario has been orchestrated from the outset is too far fetched. There is no doubt whatsoever American central bankers and the political branch manipulated the $USD down. I also think they may have tried to halt it's drop for an extended period near it's lows. I do not however believe they are now manipulating it higher, to this extent, and at this pace, intentionally. It suits no ones interests, least of all Americas. The dollar always had the potential energy of a very large coiled spring, but the pushing it down also had the potential to send it through the floor where they could not control it's fall. Now it seems the opposite may be happening. Increasingly I believe this is all uncharted territory and that the previous set of rules and guidelines no longer apply to the extent they did previously. It will be interesting to see how the impact of hedge fund closures add to this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Drop the dollar and everybody starts investing in like lets say the housing market from other countries. The prices go up and more keep investing because everyone is making money. Until the housing market crashes. Then the stock markets around the world fall, Where is a safe place to put your money. The yen or the dollar if you let it rise. Oil prices go down inflation stalls for a while. Commodities fall fleecing a few more people along the way. nope nobodies gaining as a result. Could they do it sure. Just look at Thailand keeping up the value of the baht. Its all about consolidating wealth. Taking it from you and giving it to them. I remember when japan was buying everything in sight and created a housing bubble about 20 to 30 years ago. Many lost 50% their investment when the housing market tanked. How much wealth do you think the american people have lost in the last year and multiply that by China, europe, korea etc. A lot of wealth has moved out of the peoples hand in the last year. Who has it. If you bought Microsoft stock at 10, and then it went to 120, and then it fell to 10 again and you sold it, did you lose any money? If so, who took it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Chiang MaiEach to there own. And the US didn't know that the Japanese were going to bomb pearl harbor ahead of time. Building seven wasn't brought down, kennedy was killed by a lone gunman, and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.. I know its a hard pill to swallow but we are talking about people who sell arms to both sides in a war. You are looking at them through your ethics not there's because many of them don't have any. If they did all these things what else are they capable of. It took me a long time to finally admit to myself that 911 was an inside job because of the implications. Not sure who the real culprits were but the Muslums on those plans were just patsies. No your right it just happened just like it happens about every 10 years that the public gets fleeced by some accident in the financial world. Right. I appreciate your input though. Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean to say they are not out to get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalPoster Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 (edited) Drop the dollar and everybody starts investing in like lets say the housing market from other countries. The prices go up and more keep investing because everyone is making money. Until the housing market crashes. Then the stock markets around the world fall, Where is a safe place to put your money. The yen or the dollar if you let it rise. Oil prices go down inflation stalls for a while. Commodities fall fleecing a few more people along the way. nope nobodies gaining as a result. Could they do it sure. Just look at Thailand keeping up the value of the baht. Its all about consolidating wealth. Taking it from you and giving it to them. I remember when japan was buying everything in sight and created a housing bubble about 20 to 30 years ago. Many lost 50% their investment when the housing market tanked. How much wealth do you think the american people have lost in the last year and multiply that by China, europe, korea etc. A lot of wealth has moved out of the peoples hand in the last year. Who has it. If you bought Microsoft stock at 10, and then it went to 120, and then it fell to 10 again and you sold it, did you lose any money? If so, who took it? I suppose you could say that it was the people who sold at 120. Edited October 26, 2008 by OriginalPoster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Chiang Mai Thats for curtain it would seem to be uncharted. The only thing that seems to remain the same is that the little guys gets shafted. Thats a pattern that keeps repeating. In the scenario you put out lannarebirth I would say its a push except for the little you might have lost to inflation. But there are a lot of people that bought in higher and it now has gone lower. I could be wrong but it seems to me like a lot of people lost a lot of money. More to come with the deleveraging of the hedge funds. Time to make some popcorn and pull up a chair. At least there are not many jumping out windows, yet. We are talking about people who pay some of the best minds to figure out how people are going react to any given situation. Why would they do that. To better figure out how to manipulate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I guess we will have to wait and see. if all this is due to the fleecing by the powers that be or simply just greed gone wild. they want a strong dollar. Perfect timing. There are a number of things that were manipulated to create this crisis. How many can you find. I'm sorry but this whole crisis was manipulated from the beginning. The fleecing is almost over for this round. Life is just one big conspiracy theory, to some folks! Yes, and. What is it that you think is the cause of this financial situation is. Oh those bad greedy people look what they've gone and done. Bad, Bad You portray current events as a scenario that has been orchestrated from day one and I don't buy that in the least. I say that today's scenario is as a result of cause and effect in that the potential ramifications of derivative trading were never fully understood at the outset and if they were, the risk assessment was incorrectly weighted by a huge degree. I have no doubt that manipulation does take place, now that we have arrived at this point, to suggest that the current scenario has been orchestrated from the outset is too far fetched. There is no doubt whatsoever American central bankers and the political branch manipulated the $USD down. I also think they may have tried to halt it's drop for an extended period near it's lows. I do not however believe they are now manipulating it higher, to this extent, and at this pace, intentionally. It suits no ones interests, least of all Americas. The dollar always had the potential energy of a very large coiled spring, but the pushing it down also had the potential to send it through the floor where they could not control it's fall. Now it seems the opposite may be happening. Increasingly I believe this is all uncharted territory and that the previous set of rules and guidelines no longer apply to the extent they did previously. It will be interesting to see how the impact of hedge fund closures add to this scenario. Myself, and most of the traders I know are about as cynical as can be with regards to markets. Especially when these events happen in October. Generaly, for us it's blah, blah, blah markdown time for the November 2 seasonal rally. That said, while we might get a rally, I'm banking that it's different this time. This is the fastest market i've ever witnessed. Volatility parked too high, too long. Volatility seems to be the newest bubble they've blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayGordon Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 (edited) Reading articles like this would make it appear so,.http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article52613.ece Edited October 26, 2008 by GayGordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Check out this thread http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message524328/pg6 Some really crazy stuff in this forum but some real jewels also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 http://business.theage.com.au/business/go-...1023-57gk.html# Australian banks freeze bank accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Reading articles like this would make it appear so,.http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article52613.ece Thats amazing 1000% value loss in one year on some housing values. I wonder if this type of thing will hit thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayGordon Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Reading articles like this would make it appear so,.http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article52613.ece Thats amazing 1000% value loss in one year on some housing values. I wonder if this type of thing will hit thailand. I consider some canny buisnessmen will be investing money in some of these snatchback property auctions,think i may cash up some spare baht we have ! .where will it end, Experts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmsally Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 The only consistency in all of this is that as the European situation worsens Sarkozy's speeches get more animated. In fact at the moment it would definitely not be wise to stand anywhere near him. Interesting television footage from Iceland with a huge protest saying off with their heads - not sure whose head but I presume the finance minister. Also a number of articles out there that argue the Euro is headed for parity with the US$. So where does that leave the GBP; presumably lower still ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Reading articles like this would make it appear so,.http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article52613.ece Thats amazing 1000% value loss in one year on some housing values. I wonder if this type of thing will hit thailand. I consider some canny buisnessmen will be investing money in some of these snatchback property auctions,think i may cash up some spare baht we have ! .where will it end, Experts ? I don't know where it will end but I know where it should end - when real estate assets represent fair value and when borrowers income and savings are fairly matched to asset values. Eight times earnings, fifty year mortgages, mortgages of 120%, my arse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Maybe when we all accept the NWO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 The only consistency in all of this is that as the European situation worsens Sarkozy's speeches get more animated. In fact at the moment it would definitely not be wise to stand anywhere near him.Interesting television footage from Iceland with a huge protest saying off with their heads - not sure whose head but I presume the finance minister. Also a number of articles out there that argue the Euro is headed for parity with the US$. So where does that leave the GBP; presumably lower still ! Relax Sally, Gordo' has a plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayGordon Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Reading articles like this would make it appear so,.http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article52613.ece Thats amazing 1000% value loss in one year on some housing values. I wonder if this type of thing will hit thailand. I consider some canny buisnessmen will be investing money in some of these snatchback property auctions,think i may cash up some spare baht we have ! .where will it end, Experts ? I don't know where it will end but I know where it should end - when real estate assets represent fair value and when borrowers income and savings are fairly matched to asset values. Eight times earnings, fifty year mortgages, mortgages of 120%, my arse! Absoluely agree, the house prices and related mortgate payments are what have kept a lot of people poor in the uk, its ludicrous, how are the young ever to buy when the repayments on a 70k loan are 1000 a month and they earn 1400... no for the sake of the young i hope it drops to a point where they can get on the property ladder without fear of repossesion if they go sick for a month ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colibra Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvo Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean to say they are not out to get you. There's something vaguely familiar about that sentiment, I'm sure I've heard that before somewhere ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...et-tsunami.html Sterling caught up in 'currency market tsunami' Sterling is caught up in a “currency market tsunami” as money pours out of emerging markets and into the dollar and the yen, experts said yesterday. Bob Munro, senior consultant at currency experts HiFX, said that the dollar’s strength against the pound would continue as hedge funds liquidated assets in emerging markets and kept the money in cash. He said: “Most of these hedge funds are dollar-denominated and so money is pouring into the dollar.” Munro added: “This is not a vote of confidence in the US economy, more a technical move as people get out of anything risky. “There is a currency market tsunami washing over everything, and we will have to wait until the waves recede to see what’s left,” he said. The pound, which has lost a quarter of its value against the dollar in the past year, fell 3.5 cents to $1.5837 on Friday, as hedge funds pulled cash out of emerging markets amidst gloomy global forecasts. The move by investors away from emerging markets is contributing to the strength of the dollar and the Japanese yen. Some of the cash is being used to repay low-interest loans in yen that had been financing investments. These loans, known as carry trades, have depressed the yen for years. The currency rose to a 13-year high against the dollar on Friday. After liquidating their emerging market assets, the hedge funds are holding them in either US cash or US government debt, contributing to the dollar’s strength. Philip Shaw, chief economist at Investec Securities, said that although depressing economic news from the British Government on Friday had not helped sentiment, the pound’s fall was mainly due to global economic circumstances. “Assets are being sold off in emerging markets, and cash is the only safe haven,” he said. “This de-leveraging is causing the dollar strength.” He said another factor was that worldwide interest rate forecasts are being revised downward, which has increased interest in the US where rates have already been slashed. Hedge funds which had invested heavily in emerging markets are unwinding as many investments as possible, as fears of a deepening global recession continue. George Buckley, chief UK economist at Deutsche Bank, said that although this week’s fall in the pound against the dollar had been “precipitous”, its previous position at over $2 to the pound was “possibly unsustainable in the first place.” £ should settle at around $1.50, likely to undershoot for a little while. Won't see 70 THB for many, many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocopops Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 http://business.theage.com.au/business/go-...1023-57gk.html# Australian banks freeze bank accounts. Not banks. Mortgage backed funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 On the slide again in early Asian trade. If this keeps up I reckon 40 Baht by the end of November. If it's anything like last time (1990's) it will stick there for 5 years or more. The world is asking: What is Britain for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardenedSoul Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Not long ago a small group of Brits were cheering and gloating the demise of the US Dollar. The more the Dollar dropped, the louder they cheered. It now appears the shoe is on the other foot. Not much fun is it? The dollar is doomed. Guaranteed. Just a matter of time before the Fed steps in to cover banks' exposure to the credit default swap "market" like they're doing with AIG who spent the $85bn "loan" and promptly asked for another £36bn within two weeks These banks and hedge funds dumping assets to meet margin calls and the like are gonna run out of things to sell. Gold will soar without a doubt. The Fed and those in its hegemony have made it clear that deflation is simply not an option and have employed the most inflationary tactics to thwart it. The price of "paper" gold on the COMEX is at $730 but an ounce of physical gold costs well over $1000. That kind of discrepancy can't go on forever . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Not long ago a small group of Brits were cheering and gloating the demise of the US Dollar. The more the Dollar dropped, the louder they cheered. It now appears the shoe is on the other foot. Not much fun is it? The dollar is doomed. Guaranteed. Just a matter of time before the Fed steps in to cover banks' exposure to the credit default swap "market" like they're doing with AIG who spent the $85bn "loan" and promptly asked for another £36bn within two weeks These banks and hedge funds dumping assets to meet margin calls and the like are gonna run out of things to sell. Gold will soar without a doubt. The Fed and those in its hegemony have made it clear that deflation is simply not an option and have employed the most inflationary tactics to thwart it. The price of "paper" gold on the COMEX is at $730 but an ounce of physical gold costs well over $1000. That kind of discrepancy can't go on forever . . . So's the Pound. They'll go down together. Can't find the link now, but analyst other day on CNN I think, reckons GBP, USD and Euro to go the way of Zimbabwe because of all this pumping of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayGordon Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 On the slide again in early Asian trade.If this keeps up I reckon 40 Baht by the end of November. If it's anything like last time (1990's) it will stick there for 5 years or more. The world is asking: What is Britain for? They will have to knock the Great off if they arent careful wont they ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean to say they are not out to get you. There's something vaguely familiar about that sentiment, I'm sure I've heard that before somewhere ? That's funny, I actually hadn't spotted that before - something about great minds think ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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