State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[animatic]

On the other hand I don't see blood or 2 foot machettees either...

In the pictures the moderators have deleted I might NOW add.

We are kept to a narrow scope it seems.

No we are not, not will we arrive at annachy,

Chaos theory may come into play soon enough,

or maybe it is all ready working it's magic !

All the players bouncing off each other at unpredictable angles

until finally an new equalibrium simmers into place.

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[lupin]

Some videos just been released, please NOTE THIS VIDEOS ARE QUITE DISTURBING and SHOW VIOLENCE ...

another link with added images

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=...;fs=1&hl=en

At the end of the clip you see the poor guy on the ground getting carted away..... THIS clip shows what happened to him

[h90]

Latest seems to be Banharn offers to mediate between government (of whihc his party is part!) and PAD and Media organizations decry the SoE. Both are entirely predictable.

Edited to add: and apparently Samak wont resign or disolve the house so we now have the same stand off as yesterday but this time with the army in the middle. Only in Thailand

the eel tries to get premier, again....

[ThNiner]

I'd stop anyone selling their vote from voting for 5 years.

:nod: That'd be nice.

[animatic]

Vote buying - 1 year gaol, 5,000,000 baht fine & ten year ban from politics for you and five year ban for all family members.

A better sentence would be a permanent ban from politics (and some jail time). People might be less inclined to cheat if they knew they were probably going to flush their entire political career down the toilet.

Judging from some of the second generations, 'since rehalbilitated',

jail time isn't much of a detterant...

Banishment hasn't stopped Kuhn Newin much either it seems.

But eventually attrition has to have some affect.

[hammered]

Latest seems to be Banharn offers to mediate between government (of whihc his party is part!) and PAD and Media organizations decry the SoE. Both are entirely predictable.

Edited to add: and apparently Samak wont resign or disolve the house so we now have the same stand off as yesterday but this time with the army in the middle. Only in Thailand

the eel tries to get premier, again....

Right now anything is possible but if you are sat in the middle trying to hold the line do you see a solution with Samak or the Sondhi in place?

[stevemac]

Since when has entering and smashing up airport terminals been classed as peaceful? Also, I thought this was a democratically elected government. What mandate does PAD have to overthrow the government? What right do they have to disrupt the free passage of law abiding citizens?

Since when breaking two windows at ONE airport terminal is the same as "smashing up airport terminals"? Besides the PAD itself has been vehemently denying that it was their people who did it. You must be working for NBT, ehh?

Depends on who's propoganda you subscribe to!

What about a response to the real issue - Also, I thought this was a democratically elected government. What mandate does PAD have to overthrow the government? What right do they have to disrupt the free passage of law abiding citizens? Protest is banners and persuasion. Inflicting inconvenience and restriction on peoples legitimate movement and activities is something else. What would you call it? If this happened in the West would it also be acceptable - I think not!

[hansnl]

That is a good news.

Why do people assume that all gov are bad?

This gov is from the majority votes and the protestors are back supported by the opponants.

Wake up!!!!

I just woke up!

Thank you for the wake up call.

All governments are bad.

For the entire population (most of the time), for the majority of the people (most of the time), for the minority of the people (nearly always), or for a small part of the population (always).

The Government of the day, from whichever part of the population, is always bad news for the other part of the population.

However, if the Government of the day organises, condones, or instignates violence to it's opponents by it's proponents or it's institutions (whichever), then the Government of the day is a very bad Government.

In a real democracy, the Government of the day is there for all people, not only for a part of the people.

It should listen to it's opponents, not only to it's proponents, and should try to negotiate, make compromises, so that all or most of the population can live in peace.

Having the voting majority does not mean that a government can only govern for it's voters.

It must, yes MUST, also govern for the voting minority.

And take in account that opponents can become proponents, but proponents can also become opponents.

[ando]

Gen. Anupong's press conference was interesting. Sides shoudl negotiate. No force to move PAD. Differences between Samak and PAD up to parliament to resolve. Possible censorship or something against NBT and ASTV. Quite mild and level headed.

Actually, in a state of emergency where the PM is supposed to be the supreme commander under the constitution, the good general should be doing what he is told rather than holding a press conference to tell the government what to do. Its quite obvious the army has picked a side. The generals don't want to be handed leadership of this ailing economy again and so apparently wont mount a coup. But at the same time are prepared to sit idly by and let PAD create anarchy in the hope it will result in a change of government. About all the Army is prepared to do at this present time is to prevent DAAD from removing the PAD protesters from their illegal occupation of government property, -- which of course should be the armys job under a SOE anyway. If the army continues on this politically biased and weak course of action the state of anarchy is bound to increase. We would have a situation where the army is protecting PAD protesters from the pro government DAAD group while refusing to uphold the law and remove PAD. The army would actually be actively contributing to the problem by their refusal to act in restoring law and order.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

It is incredible that after thousands of posts, some people's opinions have not changed from day one. It really shows how everyone can take a compltely different look at the same situation and once again begs the question of how are we going to solve this problem without compromise. PAD's 30-70 proposal is unacceptable, PAD's closing of airports and raiding of NBT is unacceptable. Government's insiduous corruption is unacceptable, and while they are ligitimate by election, they have certainly lost their mandate to rule (their actions regarding Cambodia has already been ruled as unconsitutional, the PM is up on at least two charges, many ministers are facing trails, they have without a doubt lost their mandate, whether they were elected or not, does not give them carte blanche - people on the anti PAD side cite how in other countries PAD would have been dispersed by force long ago, but don't forget the flip side, had the government's actions been the same in any other country, they would have been forced to resign, or shamed into resigning long ago too), DAAD's voilence was unacceptable. PAD, DAAD and the Gov are not ALL a bunch of idiots. If we don't try to see the other argument, other greviences, then we can go on for another 200 pages on this forum and not have achieved anything but venting our own grievances...which, admitedly, is why we are here, but wouldn't it be nice if we could do what the entire nation needs to do, and that is find a solution. And that means compromise. Most of my office is PAD or PAD sympathetic, about 30 percent are pro government. It has been an interesting time because we are actually talking and we even share TV time at work, so both NBT and ASTV and also impartial channels are shown.

[h90]

Latest seems to be Banharn offers to mediate between government (of whihc his party is part!) and PAD and Media organizations decry the SoE. Both are entirely predictable.

Edited to add: and apparently Samak wont resign or disolve the house so we now have the same stand off as yesterday but this time with the army in the middle. Only in Thailand

the eel tries to get premier, again....

Right now anything is possible but if you are sat in the middle trying to hold the line do you see a solution with Samak or the Sondhi in place?

Sondhi don't want to get premier. Banharn is no big improvement (but it is a small improvement).

I don't know a real solution...maybe an appointed government for 2 years....but that leads to the question what will be after that 2 years?

Or army coup, new constitution which really has harsh penalties against vote buying, but international it won't look good.

Or short version: "I don't know"

[aglae4]

This General on TV right now, do I understand correctly that he is saying the military will not break up the PAD demonstrations? Isn't that called mutiny?

What Gen. Anupong said is that they still need time to study the situation in order to do what is best for all sides. He did not say the military will not break up the demonstration.

I am still amazed - more than half an hour now and he is still as polite and calm as he was at the beginning - if he wasn't head of the military, people would likely be looking at him as a possible alternative.

(editing my own grammar LOL)

It was annnounced yesterday (Bangkok Post) that this general will be replaced the 1st of october......(that puzzled me : he refuses the state of emergency on Friday, it is announced on monday that he will be replaced, he accepts the state of emergency on tuesday, but will maybe not interfere.......). I say that and I say nothing.

Sorry for my poor english!

My mistake, went to check and correct myself before somebody else does!!!!!! It is Gen. Boonsang, Supreme Commander, that leaves and not Gen. Anupong.....I am just happy now I said nothing.......

[animatic]

Latest seems to be Banharn offers to mediate between government (of whihc his party is part!) and PAD and Media organizations decry the SoE. Both are entirely predictable.

Edited to add: and apparently Samak wont resign or disolve the house so we now have the same stand off as yesterday but this time with the army in the middle. Only in Thailand

the eel tries to get premier, again....

Right now anything is possible but if you are sat in the middle trying to hold the line do you see a solution with Samak or the Sondhi in place?

The piece of the puzzle I think Kuhn Samak is missing is :

even if he arrests the WHOLE 9 leaders of PAD and ASTV personel,

the genie is STILL out of the bottle.

There is a new set of leaders in place

much like Pua p...whatever is for PPP.

The Old PAD leaders then become martyred figure heads who lost temporarily to the enemy.

ButPAD with new un baggaged leaders STILL would want K. Samak and cabinet out EVEN MORE.

With cell phones and deep inter-family connections this would change nothing.

And the unseen powers would still want this moving forward.

I think the army see this clearly. There is one person who doesn't.

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[koosdeboer]

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.

Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

Dear Chua,

Respectfully, You need more information before arising to the aforementioned conclusion. PAD has been hiring and transporting people to the protests since the beginning of this. The rate started at 500 baht per day and is now up to 1000 per day. Entire villages are open to negotiation for their appearance at the PAD sponsored events. Most of the people hired are coming from the, you guessed it, northeastern provinces. They appear for the money only.

PAD peaceful ?? effectively shutting down a government installation is not peaceful....It could be an act of war if two nationalities were involved and certainly never tolerated in any democratically elected western democracy.

Protesting against a democratically elected government is the HUGE negative impact perceived by the rest of the world, investors .... and the tourists will not come as long as PAD continues it's desire to disrupt a democratically elected government.

You should attain more of the facts and perhaps a political science course or two in order to educate yourself and realign your position,

Respectfullly, it's not true, the PAD doesn't hire people. The DAAD is hiring people.

[ThNiner]

Since when has entering and smashing up airport terminals been classed as peaceful? Also, I thought this was a democratically elected government. What mandate does PAD have to overthrow the government? What right do they have to disrupt the free passage of law abiding citizens?

Since when breaking two windows at ONE airport terminal is the same as "smashing up airport terminals"? Besides the PAD itself has been vehemently denying that it was their people who did it. You must be working for NBT, ehh?

Depends on who's propoganda you subscribe to!

What about a response to the real issue - Also, I thought this was a democratically elected government. What mandate does PAD have to overthrow the government? What right do they have to disrupt the free passage of law abiding citizens? Protest is banners and persuasion. Inflicting inconvenience and restriction on peoples legitimate movement and activities is something else. What would you call it? If this happened in the West would it also be acceptable - I think not!

I don't subscribe to any propaganda. I just read and watch news from many different sources. All of them, including NBT, has only reported one borken window glass incident at Phuket airport. So you heard more of this, why don't you just share it with us? So maybe we can figure out what you have subscribed to.

As for the "democratically elected government", the EC has just ruled today that PPP has commited electoral frauds. So there you go. As for the mandate the PAD might have, they probably have nothing but they were playing by the rules of democracy. Yes, they have violated some law. And they will face the consequences later. And how's all that exactly invalidate the PAD's claims about this corrupt puppet gov't? Huh?

[kurtgruen]

The proposition of having International observers where stopped last election from all directions.

Could you please clarify what you're saying here?

That the proposition that allow international observers was ridiculed and tossed out by all involved parties. "Thais don't need to be lectured on how to run elections" was the sentiment - from all.

Pride and nationalism goes above party-lines.

I thought about the above a few days ago and came to the conclusion, that International Observers would only have helped to legitimize PPP's vote buying, because the observers would never have caught it. Where do you find hundreds or thousands of international observers, who speak and understand Thai fluently, to even catch on to what is really going on?

The whole thing would have been a farce. The people would have been paid cash, and the observers would not have had a clue about it.

It all sounds great in theory though.

Canada has a pretty decent system, where members of every party are allowed to sit at every poll, to make sure everything is going the way it should be. They also get to challenge ballots when the votes get counted later, if they have not been filled out correctly. I have done that several times, as an NDP representative (Scrutineer) and this system seems to work well. All of us, one conservative, one liberal, one NDPer, etc., sat peacefully and quiet behind each polling station and observed, unless there was a problem to adress.

Now if you do it this way in Thailand, plus have an international observer sitting there, maybe it will work a little bit better next time, as opposing party members can then inform the international observer about alleged wrong doings.

[ThNiner]

Respectfullly, it's not true, the PAD doesn't hire people. The DAAD is hiring people.

PAD hiring people? Gotta one of the bigger piles of crap put out by these people. Have to laugh.

[Tony Clifton]

I'll be joining a rally at a university this afternoon.

Not a smart thing to do right now if you ask me, a week ago? Maybe, but now?

[Nampeung]

Very clear video of tv station staff being raided

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTeVp2wxxE...feature=related

[ThNiner]

I'll be joining a rally at a university this afternoon.

Not a smart thing to do right now if you ask me, a week ago? Maybe, but now?

Just did for a couple of hours and came back.

Scubadude770, too bad though no one at the rally handed me the 500 or 1000 baht.

Edited September 2, 2008 by ThNiner

[animatic]

That is a good news.

Why do people assume that all gov are bad?

This gov is from the majority votes and the protestors are back supported by the opponants.

Wake up!!!!

I just woke up!

Thank you for the wake up call.

All governments are bad.

For the entire population (most of the time), for the majority of the people (most of the time), for the minority of the people (nearly always), or for a small part of the population (always).

The Government of the day, from whichever part of the population, is always bad news for the other part of the population.

However, if the Government of the day organises, condones, or instignates violence to it's opponents by it's proponents or it's institutions (whichever), then the Government of the day is a very bad Government.

In a real democracy, the Government of the day is there for all people, not only for a part of the people.

It should listen to it's opponents, not only to it's proponents, and should try to negotiate, make compromises, so that all or most of the population can live in peace.

Having the voting majority does not mean that a government can only govern for it's voters.

It must, yes MUST, also govern for the voting minority. {Or only its BACKERS...}

And take in account that opponents can become proponents, but proponents can also become opponents.

Whole thing very well stated.

This is not what has been happening the last 6 months here.

[annamaria4711]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

State of emergency announced in Bangkok

PM to have absolute control; PAD to go on protesting despite state of emergency; more people join protest at Government House, pro-goverment protesters dispersse

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej Tuesday announced the state of emergency in Bangkok following a clash between the pro and anti-government supporters early in the morning.

Reasoning that some groups of people caused disturbances in Bangkok that affect the peace and security, Samak announced the enforcement of the Emergency Decree on Public Administration in Emergency Situations in Bangkok.

The prime minister's order also appointed the army chief to be in charge of enforcing the emergency decree in Bangkok.

Thai PBS said the PM's order would exempt the enforcement paragraph 1 of Article 9 which prohibit people from leaving their houses, meaning peole can still go t work.

The station said the announcement would prohibit gathering of more than five people.

But the state of emerency authorises the authorities to evict people from any place or prohibit them from enteirng a place.

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

The state of emergency also allows the authorities to detain suspects for seven days and would prohibit people from making illegal entries into government offices.

Pro-government protesters dispersesd soon after learning about the the emerency situation announcement.

But the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy said the protest would continue at Government House.

Thai PBS reporter reported from the scene that more people came out to join the rally Tuesday morning.

Democrat Party MP Sathit Wongnongtoey said the state of emergency would allow the prime minister to have absolute control.

Sathit said it seemed that the government foresaw the violence and state of emergency. He said the prime minster and People Power MPs indicated the violence would take place when they spoke during a debate on the political crisis Sunday night.

-- The Nation 2008-08-02

[ThNiner]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

Blah blah blah...same old tiring rhetoric. I wonder what it'd take for these people to register that PPP has just been ruled committing electoral frauds. "Democratically elected" blah blah blah. PAD is against democracy because they are against a "legitimate" gov't. Blah blah blah.

Same old ......

Edited September 2, 2008 by ThNiner

[StevieH]

I'll take a bad government over anarchy any day.

that's pretty nutshellesque right there.

[blaze]

Gen. Anupong's press conference was interesting. Sides shoudl negotiate. No force to move PAD. Differences between Samak and PAD up to parliament to resolve. Possible censorship or something against NBT and ASTV. Quite mild and level headed.

Actually, in a state of emergency where the PM is supposed to be the supreme commander under the constitution, the good general should be doing what he is told rather than holding a press conference to tell the government what to do. Its quite obvious the army has picked a side. The generals don't want to be handed leadership of this ailing economy again and so apparently wont mount a coup. But at the same time are prepared to sit idly by and let PAD create anarchy in the hope it will result in a change of government. About all the Army is prepared to do at this present time is to prevent DAAD from removing the PAD protesters from their illegal occupation of government property, -- which of course should be the armys job under a SOE anyway. If the army continues on this politically biased and weak course of action the state of anarchy is bound to increase. We would have a situation where the army is protecting PAD protesters from the pro government DAAD group while refusing to uphold the law and remove PAD. The army would actually be actively contributing to the problem by their refusal to act in restoring law and order.

Excellent post Ando.

[Publicus]

I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....

It has always been a peaceful protest, in hopes of stopping further corruption and theft of the country to benefit a few at the top.

My wife bears the scars of the May 92 protest, when another corrupt government did the same thing to the people that were peacefully assembled. Many were killed and wounded.

The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.

RIGHT ON!!! I can't believe how many of the farangs posting on here have so little respect for the brave protesters who are standing up for a fair share of the pie, standing up to these elite few who steal from the common man. Does anybody remember the cival rights movement in America and MLK Jr. ???

More power to the PAD, which knows there never has been a Western style democracy in Thailand.

However, there hasn't ever been a Thai style democracy in Thailand, either, much less a Western one. Thais haven't been able to make any kind of democracy work since the end of absolutism in 1932. So why should we think or believe Thais could/would succeed now?

Accordingly, my point is that shallow and limited democracy in Thailand certainly cannot be compared to the USA (or Britian, or France etc).

Nor could PAD in any way be compared to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., his Southern (U.S.) Christian Leadership Conference and the Civil Rights Movement of the post WW2 Era that Dr. King and his SCLC led.

Thailand and the United States are radically different: societies, cultures; civilizations. There isn't any parallel to be made in respect to PAD and the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S. ( a movement which is about to culminate in the election of a black man as president November 4th).

Neither TRT nor PPP compare to either of the two major political parties in the U.S. Forget any comparason what so ever, period.

STAMP

[blaze]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

Blah blah blah...same old tiring rhetoric. I wonder what it'd take for these people to register that PPP has just been ruled committing electoral frauds. "Democratically elected" blah blah blah. PAD is against democracy because they are against a "legitimate" gov't. Blah blah blah.

Same old ......

Pretty convincing arguement... but it's lacking something...

[ThNiner]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

Another absolutely funny comment. This same gov't that was trying to amend the constitution to limit people's rights to peacefully gather for a political rally is now painted with the "democratic" light by some people here. HAhahahahah By the way, the gov't sort of withdrew the idea after some stern objections from many university Ajarns and the public.

A lot of funny stuff on here.

[h90]

The PAD party is solely responsible for this situation, along with their military cronies who will not accept a democratic election and the merchants who are financing this sham. Thailand belongs to the people and NOT the military rich families who do not want to see a democratic Thailand, but want to maintain a nepotistic old rule, they hide behind the word Democratic but they are not democratic. I for one applaud prime Minister Samak's ruling, the military has tried everything to hinder him forming a democratically voted government. Th PAD is not democratic they are a wolf in sheep clothing... remember the military placed a curfew for many months all over Thailand at least this government offers people their opportunity and right to voice their opinion...BUT the PAD party only wants power for themselves

Blah blah blah...same old tiring rhetoric. I wonder what it'd take for these people to register that PPP has just been ruled committing electoral frauds. "Democratically elected" blah blah blah. PAD is against democracy because they are against a "legitimate" gov't. Blah blah blah.

Same old ......

The PPP (TRT) which is on the way to get disbanded the SECOND time for electoral fraud.....

I don't know where all these "this democratic elected government" poster come from.

[jongkolkhoo]

I'll be joining a rally at a university this afternoon.

Not a smart thing to do right now if you ask me, a week ago? Maybe, but now?

definitely a pro PAD supporter ..