State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[quiksilva]

I can not help but be forced to wonder how many times we must go through this vicious cycle (TRT - dissolve - PPP - dissolve - ??? - dissolve ....) before all of their corrupt members are banned for 5 years and whether it can be done before the first round of bans expires?

[ubonjoe]

]Just supplying a source

Govt to organise referendum to settle country's problems[/b]

In a bid to find ways to solve the ongoing political chaos, Samak government agreed on Thursday to conduct "public referendum," Culture Minister Somsak Kietsuranond said Thursday.

He quoted Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej as saying that the referendum is the best solution to the problem.

The decision was made at a special cabinet meeting conducted on Thursday at the Supreme Command Headquarter on Chang Wattana Road. The cabinet weekly meeting is on every Tuesday.

The venue of the cabinet meeting has to be relocated after protesters led by People's Alliance for Democracy stormed into and occupied the Government House.

Somsak told reporters that Office of the Council of State of Thailand will consider legislations concerned in conducting the referendum.

Earlier People Power Party's MP Suthin Klangsaeng said earlier his party wanted the people to be the judge in choosing between the government and the PAD.

Suthin suggested for a referendum to be held with three simple questions which the voters could answer by yes or no.

1. Should the government continue in office, resign, or dissolve the House for a snap election?

2. Should the PAD continue or end its protests?

3. Should the PAD's proposal on new politics to revamp the electoral system be accepted?

The Nation

Edited September 4, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Samuian]

I don't see the gentleman pulling any triggers or in the photos. (I don't want to defend it, and you know why. Horrible events, but everyone up to some current people that I will not reference are just as guilty.)

think you got google or yahoo, access to wikipedia, encyclopedia brittannica... in case not, see this wikipedia article:

Excerpt:

"In 1968 Samak joined the opposition Democrat Party. Well connected to the military, Samak became head of its renegade right-wing faction.[4] In the 1976 general election, he defeated Kukrit Pramoj and was made Deputy Interior Minister in the cabinet of Seni Pramoj. He quickly became prominent for arresting several left-wing activists.[5]

In late August 1976, Seni sent Samak to Singapore for the purpose of persuading Field Marshal Thanom Kittikachorn not to return to Thailand....edit...................................................

Samak was removed from his ministerial position, and in reaction organised an anti-government demonstration calling for the removal of three young liberal Democrat ministers who he branded as being "communists".[8] Although in 2008 interviews with CNN and al-Jazeera Samak denied involvement in the 6 October 1976 massacre that left officially at least 46 dead, Samak insists only 1 person was left dead. Accounts from witnesses, documents and published reports clearly identify Samak as chief operator of the "Armoured Car" radio programme, an ultra-right wing broadcast that constantly expounded anti-communist and pro-right propaganda. Samak used this programme to stir up hatred against Thammasat University students, and intentionally disobeyed the Prime Minister's orders at the time to "stop creating divisiveness." In defending the return of 1973-ousted Field Marshal Praphat over the radio, Samak told listeners that students demonstrating against the dictator's return were committing suicide."

Source:

any more information needed?

[animatic]

PPP will frame the question in an unanswerable way that benifits them,

then the opposition will boycott the unfair referenceum

PPP will claim it won by 99% and the courts will find it invalid.

IF it goes that far...

But there will likely be general hue and cry at a clearly rigged referendum question,

and there IS NO referendum laws on the books.

So on what basis can they do this referendum.

Questions of law and constitutionality only seem to concern PPP (see the cabinet's illegal temple vote)

if they can use them to keep their own warm, fuzz, butts out of stir.

[JoeInSurin]

Suthin suggested for a referendum to be held with three simple questions which the voters could answer by yes or no.

1. Should the government continue in office, resign, or dissolve the House for a snap election?

How do you answer #1 with yes or no?

[ubonjoe]

PPP will frame the question in an unanswerable way that benifits them,

then the opposition will boycott the unfair referenceum

PPP will claim it won by 99% and the courts will find it invalid.

IF it goes that far...

But there will likely be general hue and cry at a clearly rigged referendum question,

and there IS NO referendum laws on the books.

So on what basis can they do this referendum.

Questions of law and constitutionality only seem to concern PPP (see the cabinet's illegal temple vote)

if they can use them to keep their own warm, fuzz, butts out of stir.

Correct there is no referendum law on the books. The EC submitted one to Parliment in June. I did a post last night of a Nation Articule dated June 8. On this or the resign thread I am not sure.

I am sure if parliment wanted to they get it made official.

As far as your comments. Who know how it would end.

But it might be the best solution.

[Jai Dee]

House Speaker seeks to hold special meeting to defuse political situation

House Speaker Chai Chidchob (ชัย ชิดชอบ) stated after the House of Representatives deliberated on the Government budget and expenditure for 2009 that he would invite the opposition and Senate Speaker to hold a joint meeting to decipher a solution to the current political situation. He stated that if the budget and expenditure issue is not concluded today, he may ask for a special round to be held tomorrow afternoon

As for the opposition proposing a probe of rumors that the People Power Party leader drafted the Democrat Alliance for Democracy to be used against the People's Alliance for Democracy Mr. Chai stated that the matter was a criminal issue and thus the opposition must take up the case with relevant authorities, such as the police.

A special commitee of the House of Representatives is nonetheless reviewing the matter and will declare its conclusions as soon as possible.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 September 2008

[Los78]

Apparently the cabinet are going to go with th somewhat wierd idea of a referendum. One wonders who will get to frame the questions or who will be considered neutral enough to do so. One wonders what period will be allowed for sides to make their arguements in a fair and equal manner.

Yeah crazy time but it does buy time for the budget to be forced through. Oh yes another mad idea in Thailand.

A good idea actually. It will probably just reinforce that the majority of Thais are against the PAD mob anyway which they are. If it does not go the governments way then I am sure Samak will resign. I support a democratic way to end the tensions. I hope it goes ahead.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Los78

[hammered]

PPP will frame the question in an unanswerable way that benifits them,

then the opposition will boycott the unfair referenceum

PPP will claim it won by 99% and the courts will find it invalid.

IF it goes that far...

But there will likely be general hue and cry at a clearly rigged referendum question,

and there IS NO referendum laws on the books.

So on what basis can they do this referendum.

Questions of law and constitutionality only seem to concern PPP (see the cabinet's illegal temple vote)

if they can use them to keep their own warm, fuzz, butts out of stir.

The referendum idea is to buy time and yet seem to be doing something. The trouble is that there may not be time, and with government MPs already turning to oganising street mobs too and elected representatives looking to fight rather than talk or of course come up with stupid ideas like this while we have other ganags occupying places and threatening all manner of strike action there is little hope. All it would take is Samak resignation, PAD out of GH and PAD leaders to surrender to police and this would calm down considerably at least for a while, and to be honest that is not a lot to ask for the sake of a country but it is too much for some.

Oh and this is nothing compared to the level of conflict we will see if the government does suddenly decide to try and change the constitution for Thaksin to come back.

There may not be much left to fight for if calmer heads dont come to the fore soon.

[animatic]

House Speaker seeks to hold special meeting to defuse political situation

House Speaker Chai Chidchob (ชัย ชิดชอบ) stated after the House of Representatives deliberated on the Government budget and expenditure for 2009 that he would invite the opposition and Senate Speaker to hold a joint meeting to decipher a solution to the current political situation. He stated that if the budget and expenditure issue is not concluded today, he may ask for a special round to be held tomorrow afternoon

As for the opposition proposing a probe of rumors that the People Power Party leader drafted the Democrat Alliance for Democracy to be used against the People's Alliance for Democracy Mr. Chai stated that the matter was a criminal issue and thus the opposition must take up the case with relevant authorities, such as the police.

A special commitee of the House of Representatives is nonetheless reviewing the matter and will declare its conclusions as soon as possible.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 September 2008

Would that be a PPP lead 'special commitee of the House of Representatives'

By any chance.

[Jai Dee]

Chart Thai party suggests referendum to resolve political problems

Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives and Deputy Leader of Chart Thai party, Somsak Prissanananthakul (สมศักดิ์ ปริศนานันทกุล), says the party will request Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to arrange a referendum to ask people whether they want the government to remain in office.

Mr Somsak says the referendum is a constitutional method to resolve the country’s political problems and it is the idea of the Chart Thai party, not the coalition.

The minister says he cannot tell whether the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will agree with the referendum but he believes that the referendum will not cause division in the society.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 September 2008

[sriracha john]

Apparently the cabinet are going to go with th somewhat wierd idea of a referendum. One wonders who will get to frame the questions or who will be considered neutral enough to do so. One wonders what period will be allowed for sides to make their arguements in a fair and equal manner.

Yeah crazy time but it does buy time for the budget to be forced through. Oh yes another mad idea in Thailand.

Absolutely. This is crazy. Is this Leadership?

Run Forrest Run....

Lead Samak Lead

[Moonrakers]

STOP THE PRESS - BREAKING NEWS

Fish found dead on canal in Government House

A lot of fish were found dead on the canal inside the Government House compound in the morning of Thursday, the tenth day of the rally by the People's Alliance for Democracy there.

More on this exciting development at the Nation

It must surely be an omen!

Don't worry it is only a rumour. Did they interview any of the fish?

Samak will tell us that only one fish died.

[Murgatroyd]

Which side was the fish on?

[hammered]

Chart Thai party suggests referendum to resolve political problems

Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives and Deputy Leader of Chart Thai party, Somsak Prissanananthakul (สมศักดิ์ ปริศนานันทกุล), says the party will request Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to arrange a referendum to ask people whether they want the government to remain in office.

Mr Somsak says the referendum is a constitutional method to resolve the country’s political problems and it is the idea of the Chart Thai party, not the coalition.

The minister says he cannot tell whether the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will agree with the referendum but he believes that the referendum will not cause division in the society.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 September 2008

Strange considering it was the idea of a PPP MP.

Whether it is constituional will depend on whether the questions relate to any constitutional right or not. For example a referenda could not remove the right to assemble from people as that was constitutioanlly protected. Therefore a referenda question on this would not be binding. A referenda to decide on whether a government should remain or not is also questionable as it creates precedent, and actually wouldnt be binding too and Thailand has other constitutional means of recall for elected officials. Of ocurse if a government wanted to carry out its own referendum to check on its own popularity there is nothing wrong with that but in effect it would be no more than a big opinion poll.

Another thing to bear in mind is that referenda need to have different sides present a case or for both cases to be presented equally and fairly. How would equal time for both sides be guaranteed if on side ias the government who controls state media and of course have access to news reports every day.

And finally of course for a referenda to work it needs agreement of all sides to the setting up, mechanism and outcome. If the first two dont seem fair then you wont get agreement for the third.

[catmac]

More countries issue travel warnings against Thailand visit

By The Nation

Singapore, China, Taiwan, New Zealand, Switzerland, France and Denmark have joined the group of countries who have issued travel warnings against travelling into Thailand.

Since Thailand announced the state of emergency on Tuesday, five countries immediately issued the warnings - Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea and United Kingdom.

Association of Thai Travel Agents (ATTA) president Apichart Sankary said the political unrest should end before September 15, which is the start of the high season of tourism industry.

Prakit Shinamourphong, president of Thai Hotels Association (THA), said business operators are worrying over political turmoil. "It is too soon to finalise the degree of impact on the hotel and tourism business, but operators are not happy with the situation," said Prakit.

A number of tourists have checked out from hotels in Thailand for fears that state enterprises' labour union strikes could disrupt their travelling plans. Importantly, the Hat Yai International Airport has remained shut down while some train services to the South are halted.

All prepared for labour unions' strikes

By The Nation

State enterprises and provincial officials have been on full alert, pending the threat of the labour unions to launch a nationwide strike which could lead to the disruption of more public services.

The Metropolitan Electricity Authority and the Metropolitan Waterworks Authority are setting up emergency units to take care of possible power and water supply cut around the clock. However, till now, there is no major disruption, except the closure of the Hat Yai International Airport in Songkhla.

The airport stopped its operation in the morning to noon on Wednesday as People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters have blocked all gates since yesterday. The closure affected three flights from Hat Yai to Bangkok: Thai Airways International at 8.15am, Thai AirAsia at 9.45am and Nok Air 11.15am.

It was reported that the supporters remained despite Songkhla Governor Sonthi Techanan's persuasion that they should move to the City Hall. The Hat Yai train station remains shutdown for five consecutive days.

In preparation for the power supply cutoff, Songkhla also prepared generators for emergency.

The Port Authority of Thailand on Wednesday also insisted that it is operating as usual, despite the threat to stage a full-scale strike today. However, the port has welcomed much less traffic as shippers diverted to other ports, on fears of disrupted services.

So no sign of that general strike then, with, what was it, 200,000 unionised workers marching on Parliament! That pair of hotheads posting here obviously have no idea of the real state of affairs re. Thailand's unions, even though several posters who do have some understanding of reality tried to sober them up!

The real tragedy is in the last paragraphs of each post, that is real, perhaps long-term loss to Thailand and its economy. How one man can be so consumed by a personal vendetta against a former business partner (and, yes, partner in crime....Thaksin was no angel!) that they would rather destroy this country than seek redress through the Courts or the Ballot Box is beyond me.

Edited September 4, 2008 by catmac

[sriracha john]

More countries issue travel warnings against Thailand visit

Singapore, China, Taiwan, New Zealand, Switzerland, France and Denmark have joined the group of countries who have issued travel warnings against travelling into Thailand.

Since Thailand announced the state of emergency on Tuesday, five countries immediately issued the warnings - Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea and United Kingdom.

Association of Thai Travel Agents (ATTA) president Apichart Sankary said the political unrest should end before September 15, which is the start of the high season of tourism industry.

Prakit Shinamourphong, president of Thai Hotels Association (THA), said business operators are worrying over political turmoil. "It is too soon to finalise the degree of impact on the hotel and tourism business, but operators are not happy with the situation," said Prakit.

A number of tourists have checked out from hotels in Thailand for fears that state enterprises' labour union strikes could disrupt their travelling plans. Importantly, the Hat Yai International Airport has remained shut down while some train services to the South are halted.

Let's wait six months and schedule a referendum in another six months from that time.

[Mosha]

Strange, expats get murdered and the expat countries governments/embassys have no problem with that. A few demonstrations and it's a mass don't visit Thailand reponse.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Mosha

[Plus]

How long would it take for them to organise the referendum?

And what are they going to do about PAD anyway? They've got all the tools they need, including SOE, what do they need the referendum for?

They can't evict them by force, referendum or not.

[animatic]

Calling a referendum is a stall tactic.

It means others might look less democratic in theory

if they don't wait dumbly for questions to be forumulated

and the presses to roll ballots.

Buying time.

Referendums should be held to determine if people

want their taxes going to mega projects,

not if the government has support to stand.

Referendums are about changing laws not support of a regime.

Tis just a dodge.

What he need to think about is the fact the REAL power wants him gone....

They are just biding their time.

[hammered]

Calling a referendum is a stall tactic.

It means others might look less democratic in theory

if they don't wait dumbly for questions to be forumulated

and the presses to roll ballots.

Buying time.

Referendums should be held to determine if people

want their taxes going to mega projects,

not if the government has support to stand.

Referendums are about changing laws not support of a regime.

Tis just a dodge.

What he need to think about is the fact the REAL power wants him gone....

They are just biding their time.

Exactly about changing laws, constitutions (which are laws) and sometimes for accepting/refusing treaties. Goevernments are selected by elections and removed by time limit or constitutional methods (using a referendum here will also be precedent for every future time someone wants to remove a government)

If the government want a referendum then technically they can get one by disolving the house. That is the proper constitutional and internationally accepted way a government tests its popularity.

Interesting technical discussion on democratic procedure though

[animatic]

Calling a referendum is a stall tactic.

It means others might look less democratic in theory

if they don't wait dumbly for questions to be forumulated

and the presses to roll ballots.

Buying time.

Referendums should be held to determine if people

want their taxes going to mega projects,

not if the government has support to stand.

Referendums are about changing laws not support of a regime.

Tis just a dodge.

What he need to think about is the fact the REAL power wants him gone....

They are just biding their time.

Exactly about changing laws, constitutions (which are laws) and sometimes for accepting/refusing treaties. Goevernments are selected by elections and removed by time limit or constitutional methods (using a referendum here will also be precedent for every future time someone wants to remove a government)

If the government want a referendum then technically they can get one by disolving the house. That is the proper constitutional and internationally accepted way a government tests its popularity.

Interesting technical discussion on democratic procedure though

EXACTLY... they don't WANT a real referendum...

they want MORE TIME at the controls.

[ubonjoe]

From the Bangkok Post

Referendum on the crisis

The government on Thursday approved an up-or-down national vote of confidence with a referendum that will ask every voting citizen the question: Do you want the government to continue in office?

Minister of Culture Somsak Kiatsuranond briefed the media on the proposal after the special cabinet meeting.

No date has been set for the vote, approved only in principle by the cabinet. The Council of State is to work out a ballot question and details of the referendum.

He said the cabinet members see a referendum that asks several questions - even giving voters an opportunity to comment on the ongoing political crisis and standoff in Bangkok. Questions might include whether voters approve of the government, want it to resign, or favour a new election.

"Prime Minister Samak (Sundaravej) sees this as the best solution," said Mr Somsak.

The ballot will ask one simple question, whether voters want the government to stay in power, Mr Somsak said.

[catmac]

Ghandi in action....

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/O...80902104646.jpg

Edited September 4, 2008 by catmac

[younghusband]

How long would it take for them to organise the referendum?

And what are they going to do about PAD anyway? They've got all the tools they need, including SOE, what do they need the referendum for?

They can't evict them by force, referendum or not.

The referendum is a foolish idea.

The SOE doesn't help because the security forces refuse to enforce it, part of the elite's agenda to stifle democracy.Will it work? Who knows but time and gravity are not on the elite's side.In a few years time my guess is that the elite -possibly with Abhisit or similar at the helm- will seek to reform itself and address the problems of a divided Thailand.And that's when it will become really dangerous with potential for a Chavez type to emerge.

Historians will pick over the details but the basic intention will not be questioned.This is the final hurrah of a social system that is decaying in a globalised world.Actually in private it's not really questioned by many members of the elite itself and international opinion already knows the score.Without being unkind it doesn't really matter what the blue collar/below decks elements of this forum (or their "missuses") think or say.

But for Thaksin -especially as the economic crisis begins to hit Thailand hard- could this prove to be an unforeseen opportunity, especially as he is flush with cash again.

I am more convinced than ever that the military coup which set these events in motion as well as being a criminal act was unbelievably stupid.Historians will track future major constitutional changes from this act.

[Journalist]

A referendum asking the question proposed sounds like good idea.

Seems like a fairly worded question to be asked for both sides of the divide.

[hammered]

How long would it take for them to organise the referendum?

And what are they going to do about PAD anyway? They've got all the tools they need, including SOE, what do they need the referendum for?

They can't evict them by force, referendum or not.

The referendum is a foolish idea.

The SOE doesn't help because the security forces refuse to enforce it, part of the elite's agenda to stifle democracy.Will it work? Who knows but time and gravity are not on the elite's side.In a few years time my guess is that the elite -possibly with Abhisit or similar at the helm- will seek to reform itself and address the problems of a divided Thailand.And that's when it will become really dangerous with potential for a Chavez type to emerge.

Historians will pick over the details but the basic intention will not be questioned.This is the final hurrah of a social system that is decaying in a globalised world.Actually in private it's not really questioned by many members of the elite itself and international opinion already knows the score.Without being unkind it doesn't really matter what the blue collar/below decks elements of this forum (or their "missuses") think or say.

But for Thaksin -especially as the economic crisis begins to hit Thailand hard- could this prove to be an unforeseen opportunity, especially as he is flush with cash again.

I am more convinced than ever that the military coup which set these events in motion as well as being a criminal act was unbelievably stupid.Historians will track future major constitutional changes from this act.

YH I fully agree with you on the tragedy of the situation and the referendum.

It now looks like everyone is just making mistake after mistake to compound a bad situation. Evolution or revolution? I guess this is Thailand so evolution but it may be a nasty and very bumpy road.

[Journalist]

If the concept of the referendum originated from Samak's saturday meeting in Klai Kangwon Palace. (Something must have been discussed - and its unlikely that an idea like this would be allowed to proceed without top level consent).

You'd all be falling over yourselves to say what a fantastic idea it is.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Journalist

[hammered]

If the concept of the referendum originated from Samak's saturday meeting in Klai Kangwon Palace. (Something must have been discussed - and its unlikely that an idea like this would be allowed to proceed without top level consent).

You'd all be falling over yourselves to say what a fantastic idea it is.

You may be overreaching there. Basic ideas of referenda in democracy rely on them being used on static situations like an existing law change. They take too long to organise and are too complicated and expensive to be used on fluid situations like politics amongst other things. Politicians are reasoned to have judgement to decide on ongoing situations and there are constitutional mechnaisms. technically a referendum on government is an election and a government wanting to judge its popularity has only to disolve the house.

Anyway I dont htink its worth going over all this again as it is basic politcs 101

It does buy time for the government - maybe and it is a politcal ploy. Plus this is Thailand so maybe the PAD will say hey great idea we'll join in. Then again why should they?

[paulfromphuket]

so the peasents will say yes like they did in the election and the elite and blue coller will say no like they did in the election,, stalemate!

back to square one