Usa Citizen Denies Paternity Of His Child In Thailand

[vertigo4u]

I am sure, that this case is not a unique one....

A Thailady asked me for help, she has a 8 Months old Baby with an US Citizen,

but he denies the Paternity.

She knows the full Name of this Man - how can I councel her?

What steps and proceedures have to be done?

What rights she and her Baby have?

I am only familiar with the Laws in this case in germany ....

[britmaveric]

Father's name on birth certificate?

[12DrinkMore]

Surely not another bar girl scam?

[Beacher]

This sounds to me like a situation that one should just stay clear of.

Wanting to help someone is always admirable, so the best advice you could give this girl is to hire a lawyer. If she doesn't have the funds to do that, she might try to find one that will consider taking on the case for a hefty portion of any cash settlement that is finally secured. I'm pretty sure that there are lawyers here who work with those terms, and if she talks to one who is typically willing work for a percentage of a settlement but won't take on her case, she's already learned that it's unlikely she's going to get very far going through proper legal channels.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Beacher

[TheWalkingMan]

This sounds to me like a situation that one should just stay clear of.

Wanting to help someone is always admirable, so the best advice you could give this girl is to hire a lawyer. If she doesn't have the funds to do that, she might try to find one that will consider taking on the case for a hefty portion of any cash settlement that is finally secured. I'm pretty sure that there are lawyers here who work with those terms, and if she talks to one who is willing work for a percentage of a settlement but won't take on her case, she's already learned that it's unlikely she's going to get very far going through proper legal channels.

Have to agree with Beacher on this one. Pregnancy drama is something to stay away from. Maybe the guy is the father, maybe not and unless you were there during the period of conception, you will never know the truth. Punt her off to lawyer and be done with it.

[imaneggspurt]

Why bother ? .there are 2 sides to every story, however first question is does he appear on the birth certificate ?.if so thats a start.... but i would keep my nose out,.

[BangkokHank]

What would this lady have done had the father of her baby been Thai - assuming he's not? And why should she expect anything different if the father is American - assuming he is?

[Wrong Turn]

Why bother ? .there are 2 sides to every story, however first question is does he appear on the birth certificate ?.if so thats a start.... but i would keep my nose out,.

Agreed.

I'd advise her to contact an attorney in this department that has expertise.

After all, it sounds like a legal matter, in all.

[vertigo4u]

This sounds to me like a situation that one should just stay clear of.

Wanting to help someone is always admirable, so the best advice you could give this girl is to hire a lawyer. If she doesn't have the funds to do that, she might try to find one that will consider taking on the case for a hefty portion of any cash settlement that is finally secured. I'm pretty sure that there are lawyers here who work with those terms, and if she talks to one who is typically willing work for a percentage of a settlement but won't take on her case, she's already learned that it's unlikely she's going to get very far going through proper legal channels.

thank you for your advice - but how a lawyer would act in this case?

contacting the us embassy?

[Beacher]

This sounds to me like a situation that one should just stay clear of.

Wanting to help someone is always admirable, so the best advice you could give this girl is to hire a lawyer. If she doesn't have the funds to do that, she might try to find one that will consider taking on the case for a hefty portion of any cash settlement that is finally secured. I'm pretty sure that there are lawyers here who work with those terms, and if she talks to one who is typically willing work for a percentage of a settlement but won't take on her case, she's already learned that it's unlikely she's going to get very far going through proper legal channels.

thank you for your advice - but how a lawyer would act in this case?

contacting the us embassy?

You're welcome.

How a lawyer would go about persuing a case like this is a good question. I suspect that it's a very involved situation that would take a lot of cooperation between the Thai and US legal departments, not to mention the man involved. In my heart, I suspect that there's not much this girl can really do within the bounds of legal action. She may be better off trying to appeal to the man's sense of compassion and fairness by explaining that he's left her in a tough situation and sweetly ask that he make some sort of regular financial contribution to help both her and the child.

[thaihome]

A US based law firm with an office in Thailand might be able to help pursue the case in the US court have jurisdiction (where the father lives) The US office could take the case on a contingency basis. They would undoubtedly research to see if there are assets or income worth going after. After all, the guy could have been saving for 10 years for his fling in Thailand.

I believe the Thai law firms are forbidden from doing cases on contingency

TH

[petitechevre]

the way you talk, i can certify 100% that you are a SEXpat and that girl is a prostitute.

well, getting stds and pregnant = risk

same same as being a butcher and cutitng off your hand..

is the butcher going to try to find the guy who he was cutting beef for and sue him? no.

[Beacher]

A US based law firm with an office in Thailand might be able to help pursue the case in the US court have jurisdiction (where the father lives) The US office could take the case on a contingency basis. They would undoubtedly research to see if there are assets or income worth going after. After all, the guy could have been saving for 10 years for his fling in Thailand.

I believe the Thai law firms are forbidden from doing cases on contingency

TH

You may well right right about that, but I seem to recall a situation where i was talking to someone and they had made a contingency arrangement with a Thai law firm. It would seem strange to me that Thai law makers would be concerned about how a private law firm negotiates payment, but that assumption is based on Western logic, and as we all know Thai logic is 180 degrees opposed to Western logic. Even if it were a law, how often are the laws in Thailand really observed?

[haybilly]

the way you talk, i can certify 100% that you are a SEXpat and that girl is a prostitute.

well, getting stds and pregnant = risk

same same as being a butcher and cutitng off your hand..

is the butcher going to try to find the guy who he was cutting beef for and sue him? no.

F--- me! It's Sherlock Holmes--I think you might be jumping the gun somewhat, Little Goat.

[stephaniee]

Surely not another bar girl scam?

not all thai girls are bar girls sir!

[Beacher]

the way you talk, i can certify 100% that you are a SEXpat and that girl is a prostitute.

well, getting stds and pregnant = risk

same same as being a butcher and cutitng off your hand..

is the butcher going to try to find the guy who he was cutting beef for and sue him? no.

F--- me! It's Sherlock Holmes--I think you might be jumping the gun somewhat, Little Goat.

Yeah what an amazing post by petitchevre -- reaches a new low.

The most unfortunate thing about it is that she (he?) doesn't even know enough to be embarrassed by it.

[12DrinkMore]

What would this lady have done had the father of her baby been Thai - assuming he's not?

Baby to her parents, moan about Thai men to anyone who will listen and go back to join her sisters at the seaside resort.

And why should she expect anything different if the father is American - assuming he is?

Farang always have to pay, geddit?

[vertigo4u]

thanks for nearly all answers

i just want to inform you, how this would work in germany:

the german embassy would inform the german youth welfare department about this case,

they will inform the possible Father, that he will have to undergo an DNS Test, if he is denying

any involvment.

If he is refusing an DNA Test at all, it is probably clear, he will be seen as the Father.

if the DNA Test is positiv, he will have to pay for the test and will taken into duty to take financially care of his baby.

if the DNA Test is negativ, the german goverment is paying the costs for this test.

just would like to know too, how such a case is handled in other western countries, like usa as an example

[LaReina]

Vertigo: And if the test is negative can she then pick another person and ask that person to be tested? Plus I thought in Germany, it is hard to get a man to get DNA tested.

DNA testing in the US can take some time. Not so cut and dry. Not sure you can do much if you are living in a foreign country trying to get DNA testing done on a person in the US. Not sure the authorities would be interested. You have to file in court and wait your turn.

The US embassy does not help people their own citizens when sh*it hits the fan so why would they be interested in helping a paternity case. Lets not kid ourselves on the role of the US embassy in ANY country.

She wants to file against him and be successful, then she needs to file against him in the county he resides in which means getting into the US and filing.

Best advice, is one that was already given. Get him to have some compassion, and agree to help out with her bills and finances. Try and get in touch with his family and ask them to please help persuade him (not them, but him) to help with his child, and their grandchild.

In future.. use a condom, or do not give birth unless married.

my two cents

[vertigo4u]

Vertigo: And if the test is negative can she then pick another person and ask that person to be tested? Plus I thought in Germany, it is hard to get a man to get DNA tested.

DNA testing in the US can take some time. Not so cut and dry. Not sure you can do much if you are living in a foreign country trying to get DNA testing done on a person in the US. Not sure the authorities would be interested. You have to file in court and wait your turn.

The US embassy does not help people their own citizens when sh*it hits the fan so why would they be interested in helping a paternity case. Lets not kid ourselves on the role of the US embassy in ANY country.

She wants to file against him and be successful, then she needs to file against him in the county he resides in which means getting into the US and filing.

Best advice, is one that was already given. Get him to have some compassion, and agree to help out with her bills and finances. Try and get in touch with his family and ask them to please help persuade him (not them, but him) to help with his child, and their grandchild.

In future.. use a condom, or do not give birth unless married.

my two cents

LaReina

thank you for your comments and advice

your first question : if the same person - this girl - would not have given in her first apply a possible second Candidate, they will refuse any further involvement

I strongly believe, that an us lawyer with department in thailand could handle the case without the presence of the mother and her child in the usa.

germany´s youth welfare department is quite powerfull - if a Father is not paying his financial duties to his child and the mother, he will even face prison

and yes - I use condom :-)

[LaReina]

Vertigo.. I am sorry.. the condom comment was not directed at you... although glad to know you use one..

Lets be objective... a US law firm in thailand will cost what?? 8,000 baht (minimum) an hour.. and who is paying for this?? They are not married and he is under no legal obligation to pay for her attorney fees in a matter which requires no attorney.

Germany's youth welfare deparment is not as powerful as you think it is (against non residents). I did a search on the net, and they can not get US service men, who father children in Germany to get paternity tests. The US military bases do not even get involved (from the 2 cases I read).

Sure if he is German and living in Germany he might face prison, but if he is not German, and NOT living in Germany, then it becomes a case of "catch me if you can".

If the mother and child are not residing in Germany, then the govt will not be obligated to help with support and as such, I can't see why you think they would force a paternity test. A paternity test is so that the govt does NOT have to pay for support.

Lets assume that he does admit the child is his (via paternity test) then who is going to garnish his wages or force him to transfer money abroad every month. Do you realise how many dead beat dads are in the US, whose ex-wives/gf's cant get them to pay? When all the parties in question are living in the US?

There are no international laws between Germany and the US that would force this, so why would there be one between Thailand and the US.

[Heng]

These threads are always fun.

[Shotime]

More sad than fun. I've been here so long, that I can't remember the TV show in the States where they do tests to find the father. Maury Povitch? The ones where a girl swears he's the father, and goes thru maybe ten guys before they give up. I think that they're not real, and, sorry to say, after the first five, it does get funny. However reality is not so funny.

She waited till the baby was 8 months old to start trying to get the Father to help? If he's the Father, he's a prick, but she's not much better. Poor kid.

[petitechevre]

See how he does not respond about the bar girl questions..

Not hard to see..

even a thai judge wouldnt blame a farang over a bar girl

[britmaveric]

End of the day, lady in question will need a lot of dosh to get anything done especially using a lawyer. I'm assuming she does not have any dosh, so I think the most likely outcome is no support.

[GuestHouse]

Virtigo,

You might consider contacting women's rights groups, certainly in the UK there are a number of groups who pursue such cases on behalf of women and children overseas.

--

You might also consider that the responses of many foreign men living in Thailand are 'coloured' somewhat by their own fears that if one guy can be held accountable as the father of his own children it follows that they themselves might be likewise held to account.

That German laws seems a good one to me - If the DNA test comes up +ve get your wallet out.

[NightOwl888]

What would this lady have done had the father of her baby been Thai - assuming he's not? And why should she expect anything different if the father is American - assuming he is?

I agree. Many of those very bar girls that were spoken of on this thread are working there because they have a baby that Grandpa and Grandma are babysitting at home while she is dancing around the pole. The father is usually Thai and the government doesn't have any provision for making the father pay.

This sounds to me like a situation that one should just stay clear of.

Wanting to help someone is always admirable, so the best advice you could give this girl is to hire a lawyer. If she doesn't have the funds to do that, she might try to find one that will consider taking on the case for a hefty portion of any cash settlement that is finally secured. I'm pretty sure that there are lawyers here who work with those terms, and if she talks to one who is typically willing work for a percentage of a settlement but won't take on her case, she's already learned that it's unlikely she's going to get very far going through proper legal channels.

thank you for your advice - but how a lawyer would act in this case?

contacting the us embassy?

You're welcome.

How a lawyer would go about persuing a case like this is a good question. I suspect that it's a very involved situation that would take a lot of cooperation between the Thai and US legal departments, not to mention the man involved. In my heart, I suspect that there's not much this girl can really do within the bounds of legal action. She may be better off trying to appeal to the man's sense of compassion and fairness by explaining that he's left her in a tough situation and sweetly ask that he make some sort of regular financial contribution to help both her and the child.

This is probably the best advice I have heard. I'd say her legal chances (assuming she can afford a lawyer) are slim to none. Things get really tricky when international borders are crossed and the laws are usually not written to govern such cases, making this a grey area. Even if she did win the case, there is little or no infrastructure in place to collect the money on his end and pay it on hers.

Her best bet is to try to appeal to the father. He is probably in denial because he doesn't want to pay a significant portion of his salary to pay for this child. He might not even realize how inexpensive it is to raise a child in Thailand compared to the US. If she sweetly appeals to him and explains how difficult the position she is now in is and if she doesn't get too greedy and ask him for too much, he might be willing to send her a regular payment. If that doesn't work, she might be able to explain to him that she will (most likely) be working as a bargirl from now on thanks to him. If he is not a total a**hole, the guilt might be too much for him.

Lets assume that he does admit the child is his (via paternity test) then who is going to garnish his wages or force him to transfer money abroad every month. Do you realise how many dead beat dads are in the US, whose ex-wives/gf's cant get them to pay? When all the parties in question are living in the US?

Actually, the only reason why some women can't get their baby's father to pay in the US is because the father feels so strongly about the issue that he is willing to buck the system and make money under the table. The law here is so strong that even if the mother doesn't want the payment, the state will pursue the father and send her a check. The only way to avoid the state collecting child support is to drop out of the system or quit working (and some do).

Sadly, there is little protecting men in the US from being defrauded by women that get pregnant on purpose or who lie about who the father is, and this might be what the father is specifically afraid of.

Hopefully, there are some Thai women reading this thread that can learn from this experience. It isn't wise to have the baby of someone who lives abroad. It is easy to abort the pregnancy in Thailand, and probably should be done in most cases when this happens. I am not sure whether giving a baby up for adoption is an option available in Thailand...anyone? Using a condom is sound advice.

[roygsd]

I am sure, that this case is not a unique one....

A Thailady asked me for help, she has a 8 Months old Baby with an US Citizen,

but he denies the Paternity.

She knows the full Name of this Man - how can I councel her?What steps and proceedures have to be done?

What rights she and her Baby have?

I am only familiar with the Laws in this case in germany ....

Hi,

Sad as it may be, you do not have the experience to know what steps or proceedures would be necessary for her to locate and then persue the alleged father through the US legal sytem.

Neither , I suspect are you going to be willing to to provide her with th necessary funds to do so.

Unless you are prepared to provide the necessary funding to assist here through the US legal sytem I suggest you dont raise her hopes in any way.

The fact is the guy may or may not be the father, locating him is going ot be difficlt, getting him to agree to a DNA test is not going to be any easier, if the US Courts were to determine to be the father ther is no guarante that he will pay maintainence

for the child.

I am sorry to be so negative but the chances of a satisfactory result for this lady are stacked heavily against her.

roy gsd

[roygsd]

the way you talk,

i can certify 100% that you are a SEXpat and that girl is a prostitute.

well, getting stds and pregnant = risk

same same as being a butcher and cutitng off your hand..

is the butcher going to try to find the guy who he was cutting beef for and sue him? no.

I do certify 100% you need certifying, and now!

roy gsd

[roygsd]

the way you talk, i can certify 100% that you are a SEXpat and that girl is a prostitute.

well, getting stds and pregnant = risk

same same as being a butcher and cutitng off your hand..

is the butcher going to try to find the guy who he was cutting beef for and sue him? no.

F--- me! It's Sherlock Holmes--I think you might be jumping the gun somewhat, Little Goat.

More like Clare Voyant, the lady boy from Bitch Road Pattya

roy gsd