About To Be Fired

[Tanis]

At the beginning of the school year I signed a contract with a 1 year contract with a government school. The working hours explicitly state that my time I clock in at 8:30 and leave at 4:30. I asked the head of the English department if I had to attend the 7:40 morning assembly and she told me no before I signed the contract.

Within a month the director of the school mandated all teachers must attend the assembly every day. As each one of you can well imagine I was quite upset and I refused to do so. I reminded the department head what we agreed to verbally (like that will carry much weight in a court of law) and what was written in the contract that she and the director signed. No dice.

That was the beginning of the problems that I started to have at this school. There are two Filipinos who work there who get paid extremely well. The female Filipina has been there for 4 years and she gets paid as much as I do (34,000). The other Filipino is her boyfriend and he gets paid around 28k. Anyway they have been terribly offended that I would not attend the assembly and the female has repeatedly shouted at me in the office and has spread many rumors about me.

Yesterday I found out that all the teachers (do not know if in the English department or school wide) will be given an assessment by their peers and by the students. Dismissal can result if a teacher fails the assessment. I feel that I will get the axe because they are currently asking for the passport information of two farang teachers yet there is only position open (the German lady is leaving).

Anyway i will quote a few things from my contract that deals with termination and behavior:

The employee agrees to act in a decent manner as a good model teacher to the students : SMOKE ONLY AT THE PROVIDED SMOKING ROOM, PERFORM DUTY WITHOUT THE SMELL OF ALCOHOL.

The caps are included in the contract. For the record I do not smoke or drink.

The agreement is terminated on :

8:1 recession of the agreement by either parting serving a notice to the other party at least three months in advance

8:2  recession of the agreement by the employer in the case where an officially accepted physician has examined the employer and concludes that the employer should not be employed further on account of his health:

8:3 recession of the agreement by the employer on account of the employee's serious misbehavior or dereliction of duty without justification

I was hired directly by the school and not through an agency. I have not received any written warnings whatsoever from the school and many of my Thai colleagues has offered praise for my work ethics. Furthermore, I have passed both the 90-120 day probation period.

What are my legal options?

[mizzi39]

At the beginning of the school year I signed a contract with a 1 year contract with a government school. The working hours explicitly state that my time I clock in at 8:30 and leave at 4:30. I asked the head of the English department if I had to attend the 7:40 morning assembly and she told me no before I signed the contract.

Within a month the director of the school mandated all teachers must attend the assembly every day. As each one of you can well imagine I was quite upset and I refused to do so. I reminded the department head what we agreed to verbally (like that will carry much weight in a court of law) and what was written in the contract that she and the director signed. No dice.

That was the beginning of the problems that I started to have at this school. There are two Filipinos who work there who get paid extremely well. The female Filipina has been there for 4 years and she gets paid as much as I do (34,000). The other Filipino is her boyfriend and he gets paid around 28k. Anyway they have been terribly offended that I would not attend the assembly and the female has repeatedly shouted at me in the office and has spread many rumors about me.

Yesterday I found out that all the teachers (do not know if in the English department or school wide) will be given an assessment by their peers and by the students. Dismissal can result if a teacher fails the assessment. I feel that I will get the axe because they are currently asking for the passport information of two farang teachers yet there is only position open (the German lady is leaving).

Anyway i will quote a few things from my contract that deals with termination and behavior:

The employee agrees to act in a decent manner as a good model teacher to the students : SMOKE ONLY AT THE PROVIDED SMOKING ROOM, PERFORM DUTY WITHOUT THE SMELL OF ALCOHOL.

The caps are included in the contract. For the record I do not smoke or drink.

The agreement is terminated on :

8:1 recession of the agreement by either parting serving a notice to the other party at least three months in advance

8:2  recession of the agreement by the employer in the case where an officially accepted physician has examined the employer and concludes that the employer should not be employed further on account of his health:

8:3 recession of the agreement by the employer on account of the employee's serious misbehavior or dereliction of duty without justification

I was hired directly by the school and not through an agency. I have not received any written warnings whatsoever from the school and many of my Thai colleagues has offered praise for my work ethics. Furthermore, I have passed both the 90-120 day probation period.

What are my legal options?

Legally? Nothing. I do believe that the school needs to give you a 30 day (1 month) notice, but a contract can be broken for virtually any reason. Unfortunately here in the LOS no one cares if you are a well qualified teacher. A school resigning your contract is largely dependent on whether or not "they" (administration) like you. Good luck OP.

[mr_hippo]

I reminded the department head what we agreed to verbally

A verbal contract is not worth the paper ir's written on.

[farangtingtong]

At the beginning of the school year I signed a contract with a 1 year contract with a government school. The working hours explicitly state that my time I clock in at 8:30 and leave at 4:30. I asked the head of the English department if I had to attend the 7:40 morning assembly and she told me no before I signed the contract.

Within a month the director of the school mandated all teachers must attend the assembly every day. As each one of you can well imagine I was quite upset and I refused to do so. I reminded the department head what we agreed to verbally (like that will carry much weight in a court of law) and what was written in the contract that she and the director signed. No dice.

That was the beginning of the problems that I started to have at this school. There are two Filipinos who work there who get paid extremely well. The female Filipina has been there for 4 years and she gets paid as much as I do (34,000). The other Filipino is her boyfriend and he gets paid around 28k. Anyway they have been terribly offended that I would not attend the assembly and the female has repeatedly shouted at me in the office and has spread many rumors about me.

Yesterday I found out that all the teachers (do not know if in the English department or school wide) will be given an assessment by their peers and by the students. Dismissal can result if a teacher fails the assessment. I feel that I will get the axe because they are currently asking for the passport information of two farang teachers yet there is only position open (the German lady is leaving).

Anyway i will quote a few things from my contract that deals with termination and behavior:

The employee agrees to act in a decent manner as a good model teacher to the students : SMOKE ONLY AT THE PROVIDED SMOKING ROOM, PERFORM DUTY WITHOUT THE SMELL OF ALCOHOL.

The caps are included in the contract. For the record I do not smoke or drink.

The agreement is terminated on :

8:1 recession of the agreement by either parting serving a notice to the other party at least three months in advance

8:2  recession of the agreement by the employer in the case where an officially accepted physician has examined the employer and concludes that the employer should not be employed further on account of his health:

8:3 recession of the agreement by the employer on account of the employee's serious misbehavior or dereliction of duty without justification

I was hired directly by the school and not through an agency. I have not received any written warnings whatsoever from the school and many of my Thai colleagues has offered praise for my work ethics. Furthermore, I have passed both the 90-120 day probation period.

What are my legal options?

Legally? Nothing. I do believe that the school needs to give you a 30 day (1 month) notice, but a contract can be broken for virtually any reason. Unfortunately here in the LOS no one cares if you are a well qualified teacher. A school resigning your contract is largely dependent on whether or not "they" (administration) like you. Good luck OP.

Not really true: Everybody in Thailand working under a contract can 'fight' an unlawfull resignation at the Labor Department. If necessary, they'll go to court with you.

[2008bangkok]

is it that big a problem for you to attend assembly like the other teachers do??? Im sure they aint happy about having to turn up and 7.40 either but they do it....you made ya bed..

[LuckyFive8888]

you may go to court and say win the case and get compensated then what? other schools might not accept you due to your pass behaviour so isn't a good idea just to join the assembly and then resign later to move to another school with a contract clearly states that you don't have to join the assembly? it's weird tho...

[Scott]

At the school where I am employed, I usually hold a pretty firm line with the Administration about what is written in the contract. The occasional exception may be OK, but to decide that it can be violated on a daily basis is not justified.

I think you have a couple of problems, however, and the first is that you will get very little sympathy for not wanting to attend the Flag ceremony--this has to do with their nationalism, and frankly it's a little like spitting on the Koran in Saudi Arabia. Secondly, you need to decide if it's really the place where you want to work. What other options do you have? Can you move reasonably easily? If so, I would do so. Otherwise, you might have to bend a little more than you want to, but make sure what you do you do on your terms, not theirs.

[Tanis]

I reminded the department head what we agreed to verbally

A verbal contract is not worth the paper ir's written on.

My contract specifically states that I start at 8:30 and that is why I did not press the issue concering the assembly. I usually arrive 8:10 or 8:15 everyday. The big problem concerning the assembly is that I have to walk 2 km's every morning to catch a songtell. Furthermore they have requested that I stay until 5-5:30 everyday to help students for various compititions. I usually am able to attend 1 or 2 assemblies a week and I try my best to stay after school. This is the first year that the school has tried to force teachers to attend it.

What type of compensation are we talking about?

[Wrong Turn]

The employee agrees to act in a decent manner as a good model teacher to the students : S

[font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font]

This is ambiguous and subjective. It's not specific enough.

[Ijustwannateach]

Do you have a work permit? If so, your contract has the force of law. However, if you have not worked there very long (under one year), they can let you go with no notice and very little compensation (perhaps 1 month of pay) and they still have all their i's dotted and t's crossed. I believe you have to work at a place longer than one year to be considered a permanent employee for the purposes of contract renewal under labour law (so that even if your contract was only for 3 years, not renewing it for no reason would count as termination legally).

Either way, if you're going to be *terminated* for some cause, you must be given a written warning first (or else receive severance for being terminated without cause)- if they're simply not going to renew your contract at the end of the year, then I don't think you have much recourse.

Sometimes a letter from a lawyer showing that you know (and he knows) your rights clears up things considerably. I would also consider warning your troublesome coworkers that Thai law against slander is quite strong (assuming you know that what they claim is not true) and whether they would like a legal case pending during their next work permit review?

Let's be careful not to identify the school here.

"S"

[Ijustwannateach]

The employee agrees to act in a decent manner as a good model teacher to the students : S

[font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font]

This is ambiguous and subjective. It's not specific enough.

This is a catch-all in many teacher's contracts in different forms. I agree it's not specific and undefined; that's what it's for, really. Basically it means if you turn out to be a nutter or an evil person or somehow publicly 'immoral' by community standards they will have a contractual case for dismissing you. It can't be turned around to interpret that you have to work consistently outside the assigned hours, though. If the DOS at his school is justifying the flag meeting this way, it won't stand up logically or legally- but he may not get much sympathy for the reasons mentioned above by Scott.

[Loaded]

The Director expects that if he/she changes the schedule/rules regardless of a contract, he/she will be obeyed. Thai hierachy is more important that written contracts.

Thai employees will display namm jai in this situation and conform and not complain.

Discussing specifics and definitions is not a Thai thing.

To live here happily you'll need to adapt sometimes or forever be bitter and resentful because Thais don't stick to contracts and change their minds every 2 minutes. TIT

Edited September 10, 2008 by Loaded

[PeaceBlondie]

I hereby plead guilty to being a pedant, but we are interpreting a legal contract signed in English by the DIRECTOR. Can he pass a physical exam? Read this: "8:2 recession of the agreement by the employer in the case where an officially accepted physician has examined the employer and concludes that the employer should not be employed further on account of his health:..."

Anyway, the employment at that school seems impossible. Who's going to evaluate you as a peer - the Filipino or her boyfriend?

Get a job at another school, ASAP

[Tanis]

Do you have a work permit? If so, your contract has the force of law. However, if you have not worked there very long (under one year), they can let you go with no notice and very little compensation (perhaps 1 month of pay) and they still have all their i's dotted and t's crossed. I believe you have to work at a place longer than one year to be considered a permanent employee for the purposes of contract renewal under labour law (so that even if your contract was only for 3 years, not renewing it for no reason would count as termination legally).

Either way, if you're going to be *terminated* for some cause, you must be given a written warning first (or else receive severance for being terminated without cause)- if they're simply not going to renew your contract at the end of the year, then I don't think you have much recourse.

Sometimes a letter from a lawyer showing that you know (and he knows) your rights clears up things considerably. I would also consider warning your troublesome coworkers that Thai law against slander is quite strong (assuming you know that what they claim is not true) and whether they would like a legal case pending during their next work permit review?

Let's be careful not to identify the school here.

"S"

My work permit and visa coincides with my contract which expires next April. I just want to finish out my contract and move on. Next month I am getting married to a wonderful Filipino and I do not want the extra burden of finding a new job. The two Filipinos attend the same church as I and they are spreading the rumors outside of the workplace.

I will not post the name of the school here on the public forums.

The employee agrees to act in a decent manner as a good model teacher to the students : S

This is ambiguous and subjective. It's not specific enough.

This is a catch-all in many teacher's contracts in different forms. I agree it's not specific and undefined; that's what it's for, really. Basically it means if you turn out to be a nutter or an evil person or somehow publicly 'immoral' by community standards they will have a contractual case for dismissing you. It can't be turned around to interpret that you have to work consistently outside the assigned hours, though. If the DOS at his school is justifying the flag meeting this way, it won't stand up logically or legally- but he may not get much sympathy for the reasons mentioned above by Scott.

Well now I am hearing that a few students are complaining about how tough my tests are. I promptly told the department head that I am more than willing to improve my teaching abilities if she would offer something concrete to improve upon. My Thai assistant has been stricter than I when it comes to grading. Yet through all of this I have not received one written warning whatsoever.

I hereby plead guilty to being a pedant, but we are interpreting a legal contract signed in English by the DIRECTOR. Can [b]h[/b]e pass a physical exam? Read this: "8:2 recession of the agreement by the employer in the case where an officially accepted physician has examined the [b]employer[/b] and concludes that the [b]employer[/b] should not be employed further on account of his health:..."

Anyway, the employment at that school seems impossible. Who's going to evaluate you as a peer - the Filipino or her boyfriend?

Get a job at another school, ASAP

The contract is also written in Thai and states exactly the same thing. I had it independently verified by a Thai who attends my church. the "employer" is a typo on my part. I was sitting at a school computer when I wrote that and I had to piss very badly. There was no way in hel_l that I would leave the computer unattended and quite frankly I am quite surprised that there were not more grammatical problems or misspellings.

I really do not know how the assessment will be carried out and I have questioned the fairness of it with the Thai head. She is caught between a rock and hard place so to speak. She hates the DOS and she is retiring at the end of the semester because she cannot stand him. But as I mentioned before I am getting married next month and I do not want to have to look for a new job.

[font=Times New Roman][size=3] [/size][/font]

[size=3][font=Times New Roman]I just want to complete my contract and move on to greener pastures. I am strongly looking at China next year. Anyway if there is a poster on these boards who is job hunting in southern Thailand this semester or next year and want to know more information concerning this school….pm me. [/font][/size]

[andyc2006]

They're (the Pinoy teachers) f*king with your rice bowl. As Asians, they should know better, but they correctly assume that most farangs are too pathetically weak to take a baseball bat to their knees. You'll likely let them get away with it, helping to contribute to the continued exploitation of farangs in Thailand.

Too bad, because since they're not Thai, and they are messing with your income, you could get away with quite a bit of retribution here. It's an opportunity to set an example, but you'll likely waste it.

[PeaceBlondie]

As a less violent alternative to hitting them with a baseball bat to their knees....try a Christian fellowship approach. Gossip is a serious sin, mentioned along with gluttony and adultery. Offer to discuss this with a church elder. Quote Scripture. Overcome evil with goodness. "Kill" them with kindness.

[andyc2006]

As a less violent alternative to hitting them with a baseball bat to their knees....try a Christian fellowship approach. Gossip is a serious sin, mentioned along with gluttony and adultery. Offer to discuss this with a church elder. Quote Scripture. Overcome evil with goodness. "Kill" them with kindness.

What fun is that?

[Scott]

I really don't like the peer review assessments here. I know a school that does it and it is a real mess. Everyone gets even with everyone else. They have Thai teachers who speak no English assess Foreign Teachers teaching only in English.

It works out very well for the administration of the school because these assessments (along with a few other things) go into determining the raise for the next year!

[PeaceBlondie]

Peer review of school teachers assumes several things that surely are not present in most Thai schools. That all teachers doing the reviews are themselves qualified to teach and review. That they are professional enough to give an unbiased evaluation. That each teacher receives very many thorough reviews by qualified evaluators. And, that administration has the brains to use the evaluations sensibly. Nah, very unlikely.

[Milo]

Let's face it the review system is there for them to abuse. Went through it myself every year for the four years I was teaching, knowing full well the students just tick the little boxes they're told to by their Thai teachers. Last April all farang staff were let go, due to revised funding, luckily my business had just begun to take off enough to support me unaided. Had great pleasure telling them no when they rang up in May offering my position back, had just about all I could stomach of office politics! Kids were great, couldn't ask for better working conditions, but after a couple of years I was off out every single break, able to understand just enough Thai and hearing them bitching about all the other farang teachers. Bloody holier-than-thou lot they are.