Are Scams Motivated By Racism?

[soundman]

Farang gets a higher quote because farang will pay....that is good business or greed depending upon whether you are the buyer or the seller. But it is NOT racist.

Totally agree it is not racist, the seller is assuming the buyer is either ignorant of realistic value or a fool.

[sassienie]

Scams are motivated by greed.

Someone might argue that they will "jab" a foreigner harder than a local, but that is not racism, just recognition of a potentially more lucrative target.

I agree, the same senario for all people worldwide living in a foreign country, except in Jingthings case of course.

Edited September 13, 2008 by sassienie

[Naam]

This is just semantics. One definition of racism is discrimination. That means treating people differently based on their race. I remember a time when Japanese investors were heavily buying real estate in Hawaii and California. Sellers knowing a Japanese was interested would inflate their price demands. Greed, sure. Racism? Kind of a grey area. They made the decision based on Japanese nationality and Japan being a homogeneous nation, most Japanese nationals are Japanese. Would they be bright enough to know a Japanese-American is not the same as a Japanese-Japanese, probably depends. Now you might say, no harm/no foul, as many of these Japanese were indeed wealthy, well, OK, but ethically this is not so OK. Why should your race determine your price?

race does NOT determine prices. opportunity to make higher profits determine prices. those farangs who shout "racism" in Thailand forget that they bitch about something which they apply in reverse order by sucking the local people dry using their (the Thais) shÍtty economic situation and paying them peanuts for services. that goes for bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, gardeners, housemaids, taxidrivers, food vendors and a zillion of other "applications". they condone and they use a poor àsshole for eight working hours a day and are proud to claim "why should i pay more than 200 Baht? that's the going rate. you stupid farang àsshole pay double or even triple that amount and perhaps an additional bonus? learn to speak thai and screw the living shÍt out of the Thais!"

that kind of behaviour makes me sick!

[uptou]

This is just semantics. One definition of racism is discrimination. That means treating people differently based on their race. I remember a time when Japanese investors were heavily buying real estate in Hawaii and California. Sellers knowing a Japanese was interested would inflate their price demands. Greed, sure. Racism? Kind of a grey area. They made the decision based on Japanese nationality and Japan being a homogeneous nation, most Japanese nationals are Japanese. Would they be bright enough to know a Japanese-American is not the same as a Japanese-Japanese, probably depends. Now you might say, no harm/no foul, as many of these Japanese were indeed wealthy, well, OK, but ethically this is not so OK. Why should your race determine your price?

race does NOT determine prices. opportunity to make higher profits determine prices. those farangs who shout "racism" in Thailand forget that they bitch about something which they apply in reverse order by sucking the local people dry using their (the Thais) shÍtty economic situation and paying them peanuts for services. that goes for bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, gardeners, housemaids, taxidrivers, food vendors and a zillion of other "applications". they condone and they use a poor àsshole for eight working hours a day and are proud to claim "why should i pay more than 200 Baht? that's the going rate. you stupid farang àsshole pay double or even triple that amount and perhaps an additional bonus? learn to speak thai and screw the living shÍt out of the Thais!"

that kind of behaviour makes me sick!

As much as i agree its usually not about racism i dont really agree about the poor unfortunate thais who always end up loosing with financial dealings with farang. Sure i can pay the thai 3 times the local rate for a service(which is probably the norm unless they are freinds),but why shouldnt i veiw said worker whos doing very well out of me,as a sort of farang parasite.How can i believe anything such a worker says given that their greed is likely to increase with its success,who is also likely to love me for all the wrong reasons,& isnt it just encouraging the veiw that farangs are just a giant cash cow there to be milked?

[Naam]

This is just semantics. One definition of racism is discrimination. That means treating people differently based on their race. I remember a time when Japanese investors were heavily buying real estate in Hawaii and California. Sellers knowing a Japanese was interested would inflate their price demands. Greed, sure. Racism? Kind of a grey area. They made the decision based on Japanese nationality and Japan being a homogeneous nation, most Japanese nationals are Japanese. Would they be bright enough to know a Japanese-American is not the same as a Japanese-Japanese, probably depends. Now you might say, no harm/no foul, as many of these Japanese were indeed wealthy, well, OK, but ethically this is not so OK. Why should your race determine your price?

race does NOT determine prices. opportunity to make higher profits determine prices. those farangs who shout "racism" in Thailand forget that they bitch about something which they apply in reverse order by sucking the local people dry using their (the Thais) shÍtty economic situation and paying them peanuts for services. that goes for bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, gardeners, housemaids, taxidrivers, food vendors and a zillion of other "applications". they condone and they use a poor àsshole for eight working hours a day and are proud to claim "why should i pay more than 200 Baht? that's the going rate. you stupid farang àsshole pay double or even triple that amount and perhaps an additional bonus? learn to speak thai and screw the living shÍt out of the Thais!"

that kind of behaviour makes me sick!

As much as i agree its usually not about racism i dont really agree about the poor unfortunate thais who always end up loosing with financial dealings with farang. Sure i can pay the thai 3 times the local rate for a service(which is probably the norm unless they are freinds),but why shouldnt i veiw said worker whos doing very well out of me,as a sort of farang parasite.How can i believe anything such a worker says given that their greed is likely to increase with its success,who is also likely to love me for all the wrong reasons,& isnt it just encouraging the veiw that farangs are just a giant cash cow there to be milked?

i got your point but fail to see the relevance to what i referred. those who bitch about 5 Baht more or less for a baht-bus ride or a fàcking fried egg accept gladly contractors building for peanuts (compared to their homecountries) homes, repairing their cars, painting their flats, tending their gardens or... you name it. what they forget conveniently is that the low prices offered are in most cases based on the sweat of exploited labour. it is not mandatory to pay for good services double or triple. to each his own and to his/her financial abilities and individual way of thinking.

i am well aware that farangs are "milked" in thousands of cases. some of them lost obviously their life savings and in rare cases even their lives. not because of racism but of human greed and because they are easy targets. easy targets too were investors from different nations who put their money into Enron, Parmalat, Bear Sterns and thousands of other companies all over the world, got screwed and lost a wee bit more than the difference between a cheap and an expensive fried egg but nobody talked about racism. each and every multinational company has different prices for exactly the same product sold in different countries according to purchase power and demand. racism? discrimination? give me a break!

next thing i expect to read in Thaivisa that the thai government and the Bank of Thailand practice racism and discrimination because they let the Baht appreciate vs. a bunch of foreign currencies

[sassienie]

This is just semantics. One definition of racism is discrimination. That means treating people differently based on their race. I remember a time when Japanese investors were heavily buying real estate in Hawaii and California. Sellers knowing a Japanese was interested would inflate their price demands. Greed, sure. Racism? Kind of a grey area. They made the decision based on Japanese nationality and Japan being a homogeneous nation, most Japanese nationals are Japanese. Would they be bright enough to know a Japanese-American is not the same as a Japanese-Japanese, probably depends. Now you might say, no harm/no foul, as many of these Japanese were indeed wealthy, well, OK, but ethically this is not so OK. Why should your race determine your price?

race does NOT determine prices. opportunity to make higher profits determine prices. those farangs who shout "racism" in Thailand forget that they bitch about something which they apply in reverse order by sucking the local people dry using their (the Thais) shÍtty economic situation and paying them peanuts for services. that goes for bricklayers, plumbers, electricians, gardeners, housemaids, taxidrivers, food vendors and a zillion of other "applications". they condone and they use a poor àsshole for eight working hours a day and are proud to claim "why should i pay more than 200 Baht? that's the going rate. you stupid farang àsshole pay double or even triple that amount and perhaps an additional bonus? learn to speak thai and screw the living shÍt out of the Thais!"

that kind of behaviour makes me sick!

Hi Naam

You appear to be a very educated logical person and I agree with most of what you say. Your views could be more credible if only you would control your anger that knocks the bottom out of your comments.

It is the Thai hierarchy which created the infrastructure in Thailand and has set the low wage scales that exploits the working classes for reasons of keeping living conditions less expensive for themselves and they become more prosperous on the backs of the working classes. Foreigners are not guilty of instigating this set up but many (not all) have taken the opportunity of jumping onto the bandwagon. Once in they are partnering in the exploitation of low paid workers with the hierarchy. Have actually seen evidence of this myself. I am sure if the living expenditure in Thailand were similar to the home countries most ex-pats wouldn’t be choosing Thailand and some neighbouring countries to reside in.

For example, last year I decided to have a brick wall built around the grounds of my house. My Thai wife said, pay no more than 250 baht per day because that is the going rate. Why that’s the going rate, who knows?

I never take notice of that and prefer to use my own judgment by always paying what I think the job is worth, labour involved, hours worked etc. Now than: it should not be up to me, just an average not very well off resident arsehol_e as Naam may put it, to access the cost of labour but determined by proper Government imposed minimum wage regulations in all industries not only for the employees of large companies. So the burden of responsibility for a fair days pay for a fair day`s work must full on the Thai powers that be who do not enforce any proper employment system leaving the desperate and vulnerable open to exploitation by anyone or company with greater wealth.

So Naam, I am more or less going along with what you say, but we cant point the finger pacifically at one group or another. Ex-pats here hold no power whatever, even through some may think so because they have a bit of dosh in the bank. Only the Thais themselves are able to change the system here if they have the strength to carry it out. In any event it would be their fellow Thais that oppose them, ex-pats can only take it or leave it whatever system is implemented in Thailand.

[balo]

Act like a tourist anywhere in the world and you will be scammed sooner or later.

Thats why I never act like a tourist . Haven't been scammed so far....I think

[Jingthing]

That some foreigners pay the going market rate for Thai labor is not really related to this. People get all excited over the racist word but fail to recognize that a major definition of the word is simply DISCRIMINATION, treating people differently based on race. Now if a specific Thai is more likely to target a mark because he sees the person is a white foreigner, the only grey area I see is if in the thinking process of the Thai person, is this decision based on a reaction to generic "foreign" (or foreign tourist) or a reaction to the white skin racial aspect of the person. If it was purely based on a person being a tourist, no there is no racism, because it is discrimination (treating differently) based on something other than race. Following this through to its logical end, quite obviously some of the scamming that goes on in Thailand against European descent people is indeed racism because surely some of the discrimination decisions are largely triggered by race (impossible to know the extent). Racism exists in all societies. I guess the rose colored glasses brigade has a special sensitivity to the fact that it also occurs here, by Thais, against other races. Sorry, that's life. Thais are human, the culture is different, but they are subject to the same faults as all other peoples, and racism is one of them. I appreciate that many people claim they never have noticed any racism by Thais in Thailand directed at European descent people. I have to respect their experience, but wonder how their "filters" are wired to make that even possible.

Another point, if there is an institutionalized system whereby European descent people are paid BETTER than Thais for the same work, that is also racism! Because again a major definition of racism is simply discrimination, treating people DIFFERENTLY based on race. Not necessarily worse, it can be better.

To sum up my point, this is really mostly about the definition of the word racism. Some people hear it and their blood pressure elevates, they think South Africa, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, but fail to realize that being assumed to be rich because you have light skin and being treated differently because of it, is also racism. Its a loaded word but a lot of its true meaning is pretty pedestrian.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[NightOwl888]

I was scammed the first time I went to Thailand and I didn't even realize it. Sure, 1000 baht for a 1 hour longtail boat ride is a large sum in Thailand, but it was about on the average by western tourism standards (at the time) so I didn't even bat an eye. I wasn't even aware I was overcharged (for the boat or several other things I was overcharged for) until I got home.

The fact of the matter is, the difference in price (not just the fact you are a tourist) in Thailand makes it a much easier opportunity to be scammed. It is not that it is racially motivated, it is that it is easier to identify who the tourists are by their race.

The fact of the matter is, because of the Thai perception of "losing face", they are less likely to reveal the fact they were scammed by another Thai so us farang are less aware it is happening to the Thai just as frequently. Not to mention the government and businesses are as likely to blame it on them as they are on us.

This reminds me of the perception that we have here in Los Angeles about our friendly immigrants from the south. Often one of the first English words that is learned is "rasicm" because they know if they call fowl that something might be done about it here. It seems that this is the same attitude that is portrayed on this thread - if you are a minority, it is ok to cry racism for any wrongdoing or discrimination that occurs.

Personally, I don't agree with this perception. Racism is something very specific in that an injustice is done to you because you are (or aren't) a specific race. Discrimination is much broader and is usually done with other motivations in mind such as opportunity, education level, skill level, gender, age, social class, etc.

While discrimination may apply to being scammed regularly, racism is rarely the type of motivation as much as it is opportunity on the scammers' part or education (street wise) about the types of scams that go on on the farangs' part.

Racism is unfortunately akin to crying wolf in that it is overused (abused) so much that nobody is likely to believe it when it does actually happen.

[Jingthing]

NightOwl, you are right, its not the time to organize a civil rights march here. But you have to admit, it would be good for some laughs.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[Naam]

You appear to be a very educated logical person and I agree with most of what you say. Your views could be more credible if only you would control your anger that knocks the bottom out of your comments.

i am not angry Sassienie. written words can often be misunderstood as there is no intonation, no accentuation, no tongue in cheek, etc.; we are limited to a few "smilies" which do not necessarily express always our true feelings. moreover, english is my third language and although (i think) i master it quite well (my wife quite often disagrees ) i might not always find/use the right expressions.

but i admit that my blood pressure rises when i hear stories of "scams" (THB15 for a fried egg) and "racism/discrimination" (farangs pay THB10 whereas Thais pay THB5 for a baht-bus ride). it does not anger but disgust me. in rare cases disgust is replaced by sympathy and pity. the only time i get angry is when i am called "stupid farang" (this happened not once but several times on Thaivisa) because i spend my hard earned money as i please.

[OlRedEyes]

.....

Jesus H Christ, ......

Jesus Mary & Joseph, .....

For Christs sake.........

For Christs sake .....

And so endeth the sermon.

It seems Maigo has moved one step closer from believing other's shouldn't have views he doesn't agree with to claiming his own divine authority.

Is he Thai ?

No, just desperate to be.

[Pierrot]

I don't know if that deserves a new thread or not. Now we are talking of Thai trying to take adavantage of falangs but what about falang's scam ?

I find there everywhere, actually I met one of them in a remote village of China two days ago. You look a little bit lost, they come to you, very friendly, and then they start to give you "good tips from a friend".

Have you ever met them too ?

[uptou]

Soundman, a lot of folks here are not motivated by money. I have tried to motivate employees with money... it rarely works. Just walk along any village and count the hammock dwellers. What on earth motivates these folks, I have no clue....

^^^

IMO there are more scams by the Thai's on Thai's than us farung minority will ever see or hear about, so IMO most scams are not racially motivated, they are motivated by greed, laziness, lack of moral fibre & opportunity.

Yeah,its too dam hot to work yer a$$ off over here.I can understand that the easy money method would be attractive.

i would say that if anything it would be hidden,spiteful jealousy rather than any racism.With myself on a 5 year holiday i could understand if some lady selling oranges in a sh!tty market with no way out of that life would be jealous of my lack of effort (even if they have no real idea of how much you actually have to work for a wage in the west).

You could maybe say that all the major problems & unrest in the world at the moment really stem from the large disparity between the haves & havenots,& the manipulation that goes on in keeping the poor countries down,& the same system in place.As has already been said here.

[Jeddah Jo]

I finally appreciated that scamming is not racially motivated but just endemic in the culture when the sister of a girl I know ripped off her own sister with an appalling exchange rate on Thai Baht in to Laos Kip. She was sore about it but did not view it as especially out of the ordinary. She was just annoyed at herself for being so stupid

JJ.

[h90]

In a recent post on a customer being scammed in a department store, someone pointed out the fact that I did not view the action as racist, as I stated the scam was targeted at a Westerner because they were an easier target.

While I do not find the act of a scam perpetrated on a Westerner in and of itself a racist act, I do have a huge problem with the Thai response to these types of scams. This, I believe is where some people can make a stronger argument for racism, though I would actually call it an extreme case of nationalism. My problem with these scams (aside from them occurring in the first place) is the utter lack of response that often (but not always) occurs when it gets reported. Be it from management of an establishment or the government itself. Too often, the victim of a crime has had the situation reversed onto them and it is made out to be their fault. Be it by the police or a manager/owner of a business. Keep in mind, if a Thai was scammed, he/she would certainly seek redress and the situation would be very unlikely to backfire on them.

At the root of it all, Westerners in Thailand feel a certain sense of powerlessness when in these situations. What is one to do when they have been taken advantage of through no fault of their own? The government will ignore you (or potentially blame you) and business management will likely ignore you. The result is often a post on TV to at least warn other about what happened.

I, for one, welcome these posts, as the only way to stop these scams is to shed as much light on them as possible, and encourage others to keep us informed of scams and deceptive business practices. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

my wife is Thai got scammed and does not get any help unless she gets so loud that everyone else in the shop hears it......

Foreigner have the disadvantage that if they are loud in English no one understands it.

[mr_hippo]

It is the Thai hierarchy which created the infrastructure in Thailand and has set the low wage scales that exploits the working classes for reasons of keeping living conditions less expensive for themselves and they become more prosperous on the backs of the working classes. Foreigners are not guilty of instigating this set up but many (not all) have taken the opportunity of jumping onto the bandwagon. Once in they are partnering in the exploitation of low paid workers with the hierarchy. Have actually seen evidence of this myself. I am sure if the living expenditure in Thailand were similar to the home countries most ex-pats wouldn’t be choosing Thailand and some neighbouring countries to reside in.

For example, last year I decided to have a brick wall built around the grounds of my house. My Thai wife said, pay no more than 250 baht per day because that is the going rate. Why that’s the going rate, who knows?

I never take notice of that and prefer to use my own judgment by always paying what I think the job is worth, labour involved, hours worked etc. Now than: it should not be up to me, just an average not very well off resident arsehol_e as Naam may put it, to access the cost of labour but determined by proper Government imposed minimum wage regulations in all industries not only for the employees of large companies. So the burden of responsibility for a fair days pay for a fair day`s work must full on the Thai powers that be who do not enforce any proper employment system leaving the desperate and vulnerable open to exploitation by anyone or company with greater wealth.

I suppose you are the type of person who tips 50 Baht for a 200 Baht meal. If the going rate is 250Baht/day, why are you paying more? Do you give a workman more than the bill in your home country or pay the garage more for servicing your car?

When I started work over 40 years ago, the average wage was less than £10/week. Yes, wages were low but so were prices but then the unions caused the wage spiral - wages up>prices up>wages up and so on!

One of my contracts in Saudi was 'married status' and we 'employed' a yardboy - a Bangldeshi called Sultan. He worked full time for the maintenance company but he and a few of his co-workers mooonlighted as yardboys and houseboys for extra money. I can't remember how much we paid him but, for argument's sake, let's say 10 Riyal. "I've paid Sultan' said my ex-wife, "I gave him 20 Riyal!" Her reasoning was that 10 Riyal was 'nothing to us' - it was a lot for Sultan. Within days, all yardboys and housboys were demanding 20 Riyal. Can you see where this is leading? You start giving them 300 Baht/day and then that becomes the going rate until the nrxt farang decides to pay more!

[DegenFarang]

is it racist that the bar girls call me hansom but not the thai guys?

[uptou]

One of my contracts in Saudi was 'married status' and we 'employed' a yardboy - a Bangldeshi called Sultan. He worked full time for the maintenance company but he and a few of his co-workers mooonlighted as yardboys and houseboys for extra money. I can't remember how much we paid him but, for argument's sake, let's say 10 Riyal. "I've paid Sultan' said my ex-wife, "I gave him 20 Riyal!" Her reasoning was that 10 Riyal was 'nothing to us' - it was a lot for Sultan. Within days, all yardboys and housboys were demanding 20 Riyal. Can you see where this is leading? You start giving them 300 Baht/day and then that becomes the going rate until the nrxt farang decides to pay more!

Siem Reap is a classic example of what you have mentioned.They are like flies round poo in that town.A complete monkey house .

Old jonny foreigner comes over here on his 2 week package holiday after being in asia just a few days & throws money around like its confetti......

[Crushdepth]

In a recent post on a customer being scammed in a department store, someone pointed out the fact that I did not view the action as racist, as I stated the scam was targeted at a Westerner because they were an easier target.

My experience is that scams in Thailand (and crime in general) are principally motivated by greed. On the few occasions I've been scammed at an official premises I have been quite impressed by the response of the management. If you are polite but firm once you've got your hands on a manager you will probably discover that they trust their staff even less than you do - and they are quite prepared to do some arm twisting.

But don't abuse the privilege.

[Furbie]

So when Thais get scammed is that racism also ?

Jesus H Christ, so many Farangs in Thailand feel like they are vcitims.

A Farang gets stopped at a Police checkpoint, They scream RACISM, a Farang gets stopped for not wearing a helmet, They scream racism, It only happens to the poor old Farang!

Jesus Mary & Joseph, what about the hundreds of Thais that got stopped at the same checkpoint ?

Is that racism too?

Some of these posts baffle me, there are certain people in Thailand that really need to move somewhere else, go see how you are never stopped by the Police in another country, see how people will never scam you in your own country, yeah right !

For Christs sake stop FAWKING MOANING AND FEELING LIKE YOUR VICTIMS!!!!!!!!!

You have a Passport, move to Monaco Monte Carlo, move anywhere but a developing SE Asian country, what the he-ll do you expect, do you in your wildest dreams expect to be treated the same way in Ethiopia, Chad, Haiti, Sudan, Burma, Jamaica, Columbia, Thailand and Cambodia, as you would in Switzerland, Monaco, Denmark, etc etc ?

For Christs sake grow up and accept the way you live in Thailand or use your Passport and move !!!!!!!!

All the bitching and moaning in the world won't change a thing, all it will do is give you an ulcer or make you one hel_l of a miserable old fart who everybody avoids cos you do nothing but moan!!!!

I actually feel sorry for some of the poor females that have to put up with such misery mongers!

Have a nice day folks.

In the TV forum, we have an interesting group of people who just can't seem to except the fact that Thailand is a country like any other – and has it good and bad points. Be it the one extreme who sees no wrong - everything bad that happens is somehow the victims fault or someone who just does not understand Thai culture - or the other extreme, in that all Thais are Western hating bigots out to scam us out of our hard earned money at any and every opportunity. I find both of these camps pathetic. Scams do exists, as they do everywhere. And as with anywhere, the scams will target the most vulnerable. However, this does not make it right or excusable in any way.

Sadly, the response to many legitimate problems in posts are a barrage of flames saying go back to the West, you don't understand Thailand, or another response about how all the Thais are out to get us. Interestingly, many of the people who post these remarks offer not one bit of constructive advice to help the poster or enlighten others about how to avoid a similar situation. In short, these people make no meaningful contribution to the discussion and serve only to stir up controversy. They have a right to post their opinion, of course, but it is like listening to the opinion of the lonely guy at the far end of the bar who suddenly jumps into a conversation to spout nonsense. We get it already, you love it here and even if a Thai kicked you in the sack you would smile and say TIT. We get it, all Thai people are bad and after our money, and even if one pulled us from a burning building it would only be to ask for a tip after they got us out.

For those of us in the middle (not blinded by love, or crazed with anger), living here and trying to do the best we can means taking the good with the bad, but doing what we can to avoid the bad. Thailand is a good place to live, but that does not mean it is without it commonplace and unique problems. I am fortunate enough to live and work in a very high end environment, have a well educated girlfriend, friends in both the Western and Thai business community, and speak and read Thai. Even with all of this, I still have problems from time to time and occasionally grow very frustrated when dealing with Thais, as I am sure most of us do.

As such, I am glad I have TV so that I can vent on from time to time, and see others are in the same situation, while offering practical advice to those in need.

Thanks to all who shared their views and made a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

Have a great day.

[onzestan]

For those of us in the middle (not blinded by love, or crazed with anger), living here and trying to do the best we can means taking the good with the bad, but doing what we can to avoid the bad. Thailand is a good place to live, but that does not mean it is without it commonplace and unique problems. I am fortunate enough to live and work in a very high end environment, have a well educated girlfriend, friends in both the Western and Thai business community, and speak and read Thai. Even with all of this, I still have problems from time to time and occasionally grow very frustrated when dealing with Thais, as I am sure most of us do.

As such, I am glad I have TV so that I can vent on from time to time, and see others are in the same situation, while offering practical advice to those in need.

Thanks to all who shared their views and made a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

Have a great day.

Seemingly a very middle of he road stance.

However may I remind you that it was you that made the topic about racism.

I would believe you're in the middle, if not for your remark about getting frustrated when dealing with THAIS.

If you were to change that to dealing with PEOPLE, then maybe (and just maybe) I would accept that what you're saying is not biased.

No malice intended.

onzestan

[Furbie]

For those of us in the middle (not blinded by love, or crazed with anger), living here and trying to do the best we can means taking the good with the bad, but doing what we can to avoid the bad. Thailand is a good place to live, but that does not mean it is without it commonplace and unique problems. I am fortunate enough to live and work in a very high end environment, have a well educated girlfriend, friends in both the Western and Thai business community, and speak and read Thai. Even with all of this, I still have problems from time to time and occasionally grow very frustrated when dealing with Thais, as I am sure most of us do.

As such, I am glad I have TV so that I can vent on from time to time, and see others are in the same situation, while offering practical advice to those in need.

Thanks to all who shared their views and made a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

Have a great day.

Seemingly a very middle of he road stance.

However may I remind you that it was you that made the topic about racism.

I would believe you're in the middle, if not for your remark about getting frustrated when dealing with THAIS.

If you were to change that to dealing with PEOPLE, then maybe (and just maybe) I would accept that what you're saying is not biased.

No malice intended.

onzestan

Sorry, but my statement stands. Living in Thailand and dealing with Thais can sometimes be frustrating. In point of fact, Thais bring their own very special set of frustrations for me I have not dealt with working in eight countries, mostly stemming from cultural considerations that make it hard to achieve business objectives. I am willing to bet I am not alone in being frustrated by Thais from time to time. I am very sure Thais are frustrated dealing with me from time to time, mostly stemming from my Western perspective on management issues; I certainly don't view them as racist because of it.

If it makes you feel any better, some of the Westerners living in Thailand also frustrate me, but that has less to do with Western culture and more to do with the type of people they are.

[mr_hippo]

I am always amused by these scam posts, Someone always seems to mention the level of education of the Thais and they infer that Mr Farang has attained a higher level but he still gets scammed! Have you ever studied people's faces? Look at the posters for the Bangkok elections - one exudes pure evil! People look at onzestan and myself and see 'nice, pleasent chappie' and look at others and see 'victim'. and 'walking ATM'.

Some people have mentioned moto-cy taxi drivers as being of a low educational standard. Some people have academic minds whilst others have practical minds. Give Joe Soap some wood and some tools and he'll make you a great rocking chair; give me the same and I'll make you a big pile of sawdust! Give me a grammar problem or a maths problem and I can solve it whereas Joe probably can't, does that make me better than Joe?

"Are scams motivated by racism?", the OP asks. People are 'scammed' by people anywhere in the world. Is greed the motivating factor? Yes but it is on both sides! I have already told you that I once sold double glazing , I have also sold fitted kitchens for a short time. About 70% of my sales were the same combination - 'pink jazz' doors and 'lava dust' worktops, why? I had door samples and worktop samples in my sales kit - my samples were a bit scruffy apart from one which was highly polished in a cardboard 'outer'. I used to pull my samples out one at a time and say "Do you like this one?" but when I got to the one in the cardboard outer, I pulled it half out and said, "Oops, you can't have this one, it's a special order!", of course, they wanted it because of greed - they were getting something that was special! It was just a standard 'pink jazz'!

[onzestan]

Sorry, but my statement stands. Living in Thailand and dealing with Thais can sometimes be frustrating. In point of fact, Thais bring their own very special set of frustrations for me I have not dealt with working in eight countries, mostly stemming from cultural considerations that make it hard to achieve business objectives. I am willing to bet I am not alone in being frustrated by Thais from time to time. I am very sure Thais are frustrated dealing with me from time to time, mostly stemming from my Western perspective on management issues; I certainly don't view them as racist because of it.

If it makes you feel any better, some of the Westerners living in Thailand also frustrate me, but that has less to do with Western culture and more to do with the type of people they are.

Maybe, but if I have learned anything in my years living in this country, it's that you can't blame the Thais for being Thai.

We westerners judge everything by our standards, which is something that cannot be avoided because of the place and circumstances in which we were born and raised, and it's only, as you mentioned correctly, because of experiencing other cultures that our horizons broaden, but we can never fully adapt too these cultures because of our background.

I also get frustrated sometimes but prefer to believe that it's because of specific circumstances and not because of race, culture or religion.

Anyway I hate the word racism for all its implications and do believe that it's used much to frequently in this day and age of political correctness, even so far that it's lost much of it's impact.

Again no malice intended.

onzestan