Cheeta Never Changes Its Spots

[Maizefarmer]

2 Thai (Northen Thai/Lao) equivilants for the english expression "a cheeta nevers changes/looses its spots" - any of you Thai language boff's know either one (written in Thai please if at all poss)

Thank's guys

Edited September 17, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[joskydive]

I thought the saying was 'A Leopard never changes it's spots'. Sorry can't help with the Thai Language tho'.

[mangkorn]

In Thai, it's actually "the tiger doesn't throw off its stripes" - same meaning.

I can't transmit Thai script from this computer, but you'll find it here:

http://www.thai-language.org/id/208494

[Rikker]

ชาติเสือ ไม่ทิ้งลาย

เสือ can mean any variety of large cat, tiger, leopard, etc. ลาย means the pattern of its fur, whether striped or spotted.

[mangkorn]

Well, you're correct, Rikker. But if one wants to be entirely accurate, "leopard" is a compound word in Thai, with the proper descriptive modifier. In any event, they are not exactly prevalent in Southeast Asia - where the tiger is king of the jungle. Or, tragically, used to be king of the jungle...

[Rikker]

True enough. For the heck of it, types of เสือ:

เสือโคร่ง = tiger

เสือดาว = leopard

เสือดำ = panther

What other types are there?

[DavidHouston]

เสือนอนกิน - คนที่ได้รับผลประโยชน์หรือผลกำไร โดยไม่ต้องลงทุนลงแรง (a coupon-clipper; someone who sits back and collects interest, dividends, and rents, for example; someone who does not work hard to earn his money.)

เสือกระดาษ - ประเทศ องค์การ หรือผู้ที่ทำท่าทีประหนึ่งมีอำนาจมาก แต่ความจริงไม่มี. (a paper tiger, metaphorically)

[Rikker]

เสือนอนกิน - คนที่ได้รับผลประโยชน์หรือผลกำไร โดยไม่ต้องลงทุนลงแรง (a coupon-clipper; someone who sits back and collects interest, dividends, and rents, for example; someone who does not work hard to earn his money.)

เสือกระดาษ - ประเทศ องค์การ หรือผู้ที่ทำท่าทีประหนึ่งมีอำนาจมาก แต่ความจริงไม่มี. (a paper tiger, metaphorically)

And who said เสือ were endangered in Thailand!

[Maizefarmer]

"ชาติเสือ ไม่ทิ้งลาย" - there is another one that has nothing to do with tigers/cheeta's/leopards - nothing to do with loosing spots but for the life of me cannot rmember it.

Anyhow ชาติเสือ ไม่ทิ้งลาย will do just fine

Thanks guys

[mangkorn]

Thai has several wonderful proverbs referencing the tiger, which shows what a significant animal it was around these parts. My favorite - analogous to "go from the frying pan into the fire," is: "escape from the tiger, only to run into the crocodile." (And I'm pretty certain they're not talking about leopards or cheetahs.)

David: good one about "paper tiger." Was that copied from the English idiom, or did they occur independently?

[DavidHouston]

Thai has several wonderful proverbs referencing the tiger, which shows what a significant animal it was around these parts. My favorite - analogous to "go from the frying pan into the fire," is: "escape from the tiger, only to run into the crocodile." (And I'm pretty certain they're not talking about leopards or cheetahs.)

David: good one about "paper tiger." Was that copied from the English idiom, or did they occur independently?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_tiger

Paper tiger is a literal English translation of the Chinese phrase zhǐ lǎohǔ (Chinese: 紙老虎), meaning something which seems as threatening as a tiger, but is really harmless.

The phrase is an ancient one in Chinese, but sources differ as to when it entered the English vocabulary. Although some sources may claim it dates back as far as 1850 [1], it seems the Chinese phrase was first translated when it was applied to describe the United States using propaganda tactics. In 1956, Mao Zedong said of the United States:

" In appearance it is very powerful but in reality it is nothing to be afraid of; it is a paper tiger. Outwardly a tiger, it is made of paper, unable to withstand the wind and the rain. I believe the United States is nothing but a paper tiger. " In Mao Zedong's view, the term could be applied to all allegedly imperialist nations, particularly the United States and the Soviet Union (following the Sino-Soviet split): Mao argued that they appeared to be superficially powerful but would have a tendency to overextend themselves in the international arena, at which point pressure could be brought upon them by other states to cause their sudden collapse. Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev at some point remarked to Mao that although the "U.S. is a paper tiger, it has nuclear teeth".[

[mangkorn]

Another lovely one is "suea ® sawn (F) lep (H)" - "the tiger hides its claws" (Sorry, can't transmit Thai script from here).

thai-language.com's word wizard Bryan Wathabunditkul made an interesting observation on this saying, which I'll take the liberty of quoting from his website (if that doesn't violate any rules or etiquette - it's purely for educational purposes):

"Note: In most Asian cultures, humility, humbleness or modesty (to be more specific, not boasting or bragging or acting like a braggart) is the thing to do and the way to go. It's the code of behavior. It shows that, veritably, you've got good manners; you're well-mannered. The same goes for Thai culture. Therefore, we say that it's good, cool and preferable to act like a tiger who hides its powerful claws... However, the westerners seem to advise otherwise. Hence, the saying "Don't hide your light under a bushel" is used to advise someone not to keep their good qualities and abilities secret from other people (Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary). It's like if you know and are sure that you've got something good in you, show it. To me, this is an interesting point in terms of comparative cultures."

(from Suphawut.com)

[mangkorn]

Oops... should have known that "paper tiger" came from the Chinese. Thanks for that.

[DavidHouston]

Another lovely one is "suea ® sawn (F) lep (H)" - "the tiger hides its claws" (Sorry, can't transmit Thai script from here).

thai-language.com's word wizard Bryan Wathabunditkul made an interesting observation on this saying, which I'll take the liberty of quoting from his website (if that doesn't violate any rules or etiquette - it's purely for educational purposes):

"Note: In most Asian cultures, humility, humbleness or modesty (to be more specific, not boasting or bragging or acting like a braggart) is the thing to do and the way to go. It's the code of behavior. It shows that, veritably, you've got good manners; you're well-mannered. The same goes for Thai culture. Therefore, we say that it's good, cool and preferable to act like a tiger who hides its powerful claws... However, the westerners seem to advise otherwise. Hence, the saying "Don't hide your light under a bushel" is used to advise someone not to keep their good qualities and abilities secret from other people (Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary). It's like if you know and are sure that you've got something good in you, show it. To me, this is an interesting point in terms of comparative cultures."

(from Suphawut.com)

เสือซ่อนเล็บ

How about, "Speak softly but carry a big stick" ?

[mangkorn]

How about, "Speak softly but carry a big stick" ?

Perhaps. But, isn't the act of carrying a big stick similar to showing your claws, rather than hiding them?