Sex And Buddhism

[junkofdavid2]

Please give me your comments on this:

I have heard (though I'm not sure if true) that for Tibetan monks (not Thai monks though), having sex is part of their training because they experience a glimpse of enlightenment by achieving orgasm. Tantric Buddhism I think it is called. The young 'monk trainees' supposedly achieve 'heavenly ecstasy' through orgasm, and then later try to emulate the same feeling of heavenly ecstasy through meditation... as they are slowly 'weaned away' from sex.

Supposedly, if you look at ancient paintings of Tibetan monk "saints" (who have reached enlightenment but chose to be reincarnated back to earth), they have an apparently naked female on their lap (presumably having sex with the monk).

In modern paintings/pictures, the naked female is supposedly still there, but they've 'miniaturized' her and she is now unnoticeable to the untrained eye.

That may partly explain why the Dalai Lama is allowed to hug and even kiss women, while Thai monks are not even allowed to come in close proximity to women. They're different branches of buddhism with different philosophy?

I'm not an expert here, so feel free to correct me... but I believe the jist is correct. At least that's what my Thai monk friend told me and then it was sorta confirmed by my Googling it. I was very surprised.

Oh, and another pertinent question:

Assuming my above-mentioned understanding is correct, do other branches of Buddhism consider such Tantric Buddhism as 'wrong and sinful' ??? Or is it merely another virtuous way of practicing Buddhism which would give good dhama and karma to the practitioner?

Edited September 19, 2008 by junkofdavid2

[camerata]

I have heard (though I'm not sure if true) that for Tibetan monks (not Thai monks though), having sex is part of their training because they experience a glimpse of enlightenment by achieving orgasm. Tantric Buddhism I think it is called. The young 'monk trainees' supposedly achieve 'heavenly ecstasy' through orgasm, and then later try to emulate the same feeling of heavenly ecstasy through meditation... as they are slowly 'weaned away' from sex.

It's a lot more complicated than that and it's probably a tiny minority of Tibetan monks who practise tantric sex.

That may partly explain why the Dalai Lama is allowed to hug and even kiss women, while Thai monks are not even allowed to come in close proximity to women. They're different branches of buddhism with different philosophy?

Yes. Theravada and Mahayana have a lot in common but a lot that is different. Tibetan Buddhism (known as Vajrayana) is a major school of Mahayana. In many Mahayana sects, it's not forbidden for a monk to touch a woman. In some sects in Tibet and Japan, monks can marry and their function is more like that of a priest. AFAIK, the Dalai Lama's own sect is celibate and he condemns tantric sex.

Assuming my above-mentioned understanding is correct, do other branches of Buddhism consider such Tantric Buddhism as 'wrong and sinful' ??? Or is it merely another virtuous way of practicing Buddhism which would give good dhama and karma to the practitioner?

I think the branches of Buddhism that follow the Buddha's original monastic rule on monks being celibate and true renunciants would wonder how anyone could become enlightened by having sex. They'd probably consider it unskillful rather than sinful.

[camerata]

For more information, see the article I was a Tantric sex slave.

The instructions in the so-called "secret" texts spell out the methods which enable the man to control the flow of semen through yogic breath control and other practices. The idea is to "drive the semen upwards, along the spine, and into the head". The more semen in a man's head, the stronger intellectually and spiritually he is thought to be.

[Brucenkhamen]

I think the branches of Buddhism that follow the Buddha's original monastic rule on monks being celibate and true renunciants would wonder how anyone could become enlightened by having sex. They'd probably consider it unskillful rather than sinful.

That all pretty much agrees with my understanding.

One other thing, I may be wrong, but my understanding is ithat Tantra pre-dates Buddhism. If that's the case I'm sure the Buddha would have been aware of it's teachings and if sex was a way to reach enlightenment he would have said so at some point.

I'm not sure how it became a looney fringe of Tibetan Buddhism though.

[camerata]

Yes. As I recall, Tantra pre-dated Buddhism in India. Towards the end of Buddhism in India, it was the Tantric schools that were pre-eminent and it was those that made it to Tibet. The rise of Tantric Buddhism in India is described in that Thai DVD on the subject of Buddhism in India (I forget the name of it).

[rockyysdt]

I have heard (though I'm not sure if true) that for Tibetan monks (not Thai monks though), having sex is part of their training because they experience a glimpse of enlightenment by achieving orgasm.

I'd say they were way off the mark.

As good as it can be, the experience of sex wouldn't come anywhere near that of enlightenment.

I find that when I'm deeply relaxed physically, my meditative experience is superior.

I can achieve a relaxed state with a gym workout, jogging, swimming, practicing yoga, or through "sexual release".

Perhaps this led to early pioneers associating sex with the path to enlightenment!

[bernie66]

Enlightenment through sex! What part of their life do we think they are hoping to justify? [...] Sounds to me like they get off on someone watching them or they have some fantasy of turning sex into a religious experience. [...] Too bad in all there queer “enlightenment” they never figured out how to create electricity or develop revolutionary medical procedures. An orgasm is nothing more than a bodily function right next to urination and defecation. It just happens to be their favorite. If what they are saying had any validity then I could also say that taking a crap brings me “enlightenment”. If they have thoughts of sex when they think about religion the only path to “Enlightenment” they will find is through a psychiatrists. With respect to meditation of any religion all focal points of the mind is an absolute singularity of thought to a point of having nothing else going through your mind. When your mind is completely relaxed and free from the environmental influences on your body then your mind is free to work out your life’s little problems. Find more creative solutions to the worries we have or psychological problems we have from granny touching our private parts when we were children. Or in some cases you can increase other senses while turning off others. Like the hearing of the blind or the smell and sight of the deaf. It is only my personal opinion that the “Enlightenment” that these yahoo’s are romancing about is nothing more than your brain releasing dopamine. When you get really good at meditation we trick our brains into thinking we are asleep and it will start to releasing dopamine. The same thing your brain does when you sleep. We have waking dreams that’s all. This is made easy when you’re in great shape and you exercising every day. Ever heard of the term,” runners high?” Fasting is another way. Your body is exhausted but your still sitting in you Lotus position. In affect, sleeping while you’re chanting or whatever the hel_l you do. LSD, Peyote, and psilocybin do the same thing you just don’t have to wear a dress and choke down 5 years of incense to achieve the effects. No mysteries of the universe and nothing a good night’s sleep won’t give you if you want to look into your dreams. I think 90 percent is people giving you an unreachable goal because they are lying about themselves able to have some majical out of body experience. Thus giving themselves a bunch of idiots to listen to there endless ravings of insanity. Trying to resolve their own social inadequacy or uncontrollable urges by convincing others they have found freedom from the demons that haunts them. I think sex and religion is as dangerous as church and state. Any crossings of these boundaries are only perversions of truths used to manipulate people to follow the interests of a man or group of men. Edited September 21, 2008 by camerata
General insult and gratuitous stuff about sex deleted.

[camerata]

The idea that monks "achieve heavenly ecstasy through orgasm, and then later try to emulate the same feeling of heavenly ecstasy through meditation" is inaccurate. In the article I posted a link to, the idea that [some] "Tibetan Buddhists developed the belief that enlightenment could be accelerated by the decision to enlist the passions in one's religious practice, rather than to avoid them" comes much closer. The idea was to take a powerful craving like sex and turn it energy for the attaining of enlightenment. I assume it originated with the Mahayana concept of non-duality - that craving and non-craving are essentially one and the same. In other words, there was originally a serious philosophical background to the practice.

[Yamantaka]

Supposedly, if you look at ancient paintings of Tibetan monk "saints" (who have reached enlightenment but chose to be reincarnated back to earth), they have an apparently naked female on their lap (presumably having sex with the monk).

In modern paintings/pictures, the naked female is supposedly still there, but they've 'miniaturized' her and she is now unnoticeable to the untrained eye.

That may partly explain why the Dalai Lama is allowed to hug and even kiss women, while Thai monks are not even allowed to come in close proximity to women. They're different branches of buddhism with different philosophy?

I have been a Mahayana Buddhist for over thirty years and never heard of any young Tibetan monks having sex as part of their training. His Holiness, the Dalai Lama may hug people he meets, men or women (I've never seen him kiss anyone - a forehead touch is more common) but it is not in sexual manner, the same as (I hope) you would kiss your mother.

The thangkas (paintings) to which you refer are spiritual representations or embodiments of a concept. They are not intended to be interpreted as a real view of the being pictured. Chenrezig does not necessarily have 1,000 arms, Tara is not always green, and Manjushri is not necessarily orange. But it gives one a point of focus and meditation.

Thangkas depicting a Buddha with a consort are definitely not a representation of a couple having sex. It is an illustration of the yin and yang, male and female aspects of each one of us. Again it is a starting point for analytical meditation.

The idea behind Tantra is to use the energy generated by sexual activity to enhance one's meditation practice. By stopping short of orgasm, the energy created (not the semen) can be channeled up to the heart, throat and mind chakras where it can be used to amplify whatever practice is being pursued.

[0Mix1up]

he idea is to "drive the semen upwards, along the spine, and into the head". The more semen in a man's head, the stronger intellectually and spiritually he is thought to be. laugh.gif

more than a few oral sex jokes there

i think laughter is one way to feeling enlightenment.

[Samuian]

Thangkas depicting a Buddha with a consort are definitely not a representation of a couple having sex. It is an illustration of the yin and yang, male and female aspects of each one of us. Again it is a starting point for analytical meditation.

The idea behind Tantra is to use the energy generated by sexual activity to enhance one's meditation practice. By stopping short of orgasm, the energy created (not the semen) can be channeled up to the heart, throat and mind chakras where it can be used to amplify whatever practice is being pursued.

Well, took the broom and swept the temple grounds, all rubbish gone!

Thanks!

So much is totally misinterpreted!

But this is exactly what can happen if someone tries to explain the unexplainable,

or claiming mastership before studies are over!

Divine unification of heaven an earth, mind and spirit....what better parallel then the unification of the male and female principle and those who aren't free of the basic desires, entangled in the 3 gunas, fall immediately for the idea of SEX!

What else...well there is a lot more to discover...a lot more!