U.s. Banking Crisis: Capitalism "gone Wild"?

[midas]

OK - I have a quesition, apologies if it has been covered already.

The banking system is being part-nationalised. Nearly every government is pushing for tighter regulation and therefore de-leveraging. So, banks have leveraged up a couple of trillion to 50 (estimate). If government calls for say max 2.5x leverage then what will happen to the the remaining 45tn ? Will it disapear? Does it even exist? Who will pay ($7500 for every man woman & child in existence)?

ace what absolutely incredible and fascinating information. I would like to know more about this.

Can I ask where you saw these figures ?

[lannarebirth]

OK - I have a quesition, apologies if it has been covered already.

The banking system is being part-nationalised. Nearly every government is pushing for tighter regulation and therefore de-leveraging. So, banks have leveraged up a couple of trillion to 50 (estimate). If government calls for say max 2.5x leverage then what will happen to the the remaining 45tn ? Will it disapear? Does it even exist? Who will pay ($7500 for every man woman & child in existence)?

I think the margin or premium is the only real money, the rest is just potential claims against it, from my understanding.

[midas]

Clearly midas, evrything that has been done thusfar is in preparation for some event or series of events that are likely to take place. Are we aware of all the likely events? Probably not, and certainly not their outcomes. Additionally, I can't remember a time when "the system" was more vulnerable to damage from exogenous events like sudden warfare or large scale terrorist attack.

Lannarebirth all sorts of things are going through my mind. What if it's not just a financial incident.

What happens if on top of all the financial mess Israel decides to go for Iran

before there is a possible Democrat in the White House. This month has several more

significant dates in Israel and it's considered if they did attack, it would be one of those

dates. It would be horrible on top of what's already happened

[lannarebirth]

Clearly midas, evrything that has been done thusfar is in preparation for some event or series of events that are likely to take place. Are we aware of all the likely events? Probably not, and certainly not their outcomes. Additionally, I can't remember a time when "the system" was more vulnerable to damage from exogenous events like sudden warfare or large scale terrorist attack.

Lannarebirth all sorts of things are going through my mind. What if it's not just a financial incident.

What happens if on top of all the financial mess Israel decides to go for Iran

before there is a possible Democrat in the White House. This month has several more

significant dates in Israel and it's considered if they did attack, it would be one of those

dates. It would be horrible on top of what's already happened

I don't really follow the news much, so I couldn't say what may or may not happen in Israel or elsewhere. If I were worried about warfare I'd be much more concerned about NATO-Russia incidents.

I get a lot of information from a lot of varying sources. One of the seemingly flakiest of sources is the "web-bots report" courtesy of a friend of mine. It has been remarkably prescient in forecasting specific events taking place, many months in advance. the latest thing he sent me from them says "people will remember October 7th the same way they remember 9-11". Have no idea what that means , if anything, but it never hurts to have a little cash on hand and a full cupboard.

Edited October 4, 2008 by lannarebirth

[siamamerican]

You are twisting my words. You cast your words as if I said that European countries do not allow senior citizens to buy new mortgages above 60 or older. As if it was by law...You know very well that I didn't say that.

I said it will be impossible for them to get mortgages but a bank will never say that it is because of age.

LaoPo

Now you are flat out not telling the truth. Below is what you wrote a few posts back. Memory slipping a little? Maybe TV should not allow older posters to participate; just as you claim Europe doen't allow them to obtain mortgages. Also, what are you saying above. As I understamd it, you are telling us that banks won't give loans to seniors and lie to them, telling them age wasn't the reason. Now isn't that noble of them.

What you wrote:

"In most European countries mortgages are NOT GIVEN out anymore to citizens over 65.....even at 60 or lower in age."

[midas]

Clearly midas, evrything that has been done thusfar is in preparation for some event or series of events that are likely to take place. Are we aware of all the likely events? Probably not, and certainly not their outcomes. Additionally, I can't remember a time when "the system" was more vulnerable to damage from exogenous events like sudden warfare or large scale terrorist attack.

Lannarebirth all sorts of things are going through my mind. What if it's not just a financial incident.

What happens if on top of all the financial mess Israel decides to go for Iran

before there is a possible Democrat in the White House. This month has several more

significant dates in Israel and it's considered if they did attack, it would be one of those

dates. It would be horrible on top of what's already happened

I don't really follow the news much, so I couldn't say what may or may not happen in Israel or elsewhere. If I were worried about warfare I'd be much more concerned about NATO-Russia incidents.

I get a lot of information from a lot of varying sources. One of the seemingly flakiest of sources is the "web-bots report" courtesy of a friend of mine. It has been remarkably prescient in forecasting specific events taking place, many months in advance. the latest thing he sent me from them says "people will remember October 7th the same way they remember 9-11". Have no idea what that means , if anything, but it never hurts to have a little cash on hand and a full cupboard.

And I'm not so much worried about NATO-Russia - because if it came to the brink

I'm confident the two leaders of civilized countries would be able to work it out again

-like they did in the Cuban missile crisis all those years ago and stakes were much higher then

But Israel and Iran is a completely different ballgame. Iran has nothing to lose because

according to their religious values they don't regard death as being a tragedy as we do.

It has to come to blows eventually because Iran's president continually threatens Israel

with being " wiped off the earth " - these two nations hate each other with such venom

like we have never seen before and when it involves a nuclear issue- I follow every news item.

October 9th is Yom Kippur Day in Israel which their solemn day which I am watching out for.

[siamamerican]

A lot of blame to pass around ( Lenders, government, builders, borrowers...).

...Government>>lenders>>>>>builders>>>>>>borrowers that's the sequence.

The problem NOW is that the Government and lenders can breath because of the bail out....the others can't. They suffocate.

The most responsible ones to be blamed walk away...Joe Mainstreet ALWAYS pay the bill, left on the table.

LaoPo

Please explain how the average Joe foots the bill when almost all the federal taxes are paid by the non-average Joe. Stop being dramatic and get a grip on reality. Your populist posts are getting pathetic.

[flying]

Clearly midas, evrything that has been done thusfar is in preparation for some event or series of events that are likely to take place.

I know gut feelings or intuition dont count but this is the exact same I have felt all along. It is always this way. When they draw your attention to the left hand watch the right.

This whole thing is somewhat staged if you ask me. To be used later as a scape goat or an explanation of how the end began.

[Naam]

A lot of blame to pass around ( Lenders, government, builders, borrowers...).

...Government>>lenders>>>>>builders>>>>>>borrowers that's the sequence.

The problem NOW is that the Government and lenders can breath because of the bail out....the others can't. They suffocate.

The most responsible ones to be blamed walk away...Joe Mainstreet ALWAYS pay the bill, left on the table.

LaoPo

Please explain how the average Joe foots the bill when almost all the federal taxes are paid by the non-average Joe. Stop being dramatic and get a grip on reality. Your populist posts are getting pathetic.

i think both of you have a valid point. it is a fact that the lion share of income tax is paid by the non-average Joe (a similar situation exists in many countries). but besides the taxes to be coughed up by those who are taxed heavily Joe Mainstreet will feel the side effects too and quite harsh because his wallet contains less green/black printed paper to buffer (for example) rising inflation.

[Naam]

OK - I have a quesition, apologies if it has been covered already.

The banking system is being part-nationalised. Nearly every government is pushing for tighter regulation and therefore de-leveraging. So, banks have leveraged up a couple of trillion to 50 (estimate). If government calls for say max 2.5x leverage then what will happen to the the remaining 45tn ? Will it disapear? Does it even exist? Who will pay ($7500 for every man woman & child in existence)?

ace what absolutely incredible and fascinating information. I would like to know more about this. Can I ask where you saw these figures ?

the figures Ace quoted are correct Midas. each and every bank worldwide is leveraged a multiple based not only on its capitalisation but also based on the deposits of its clients. but there is no way to introduce suddenly a maximum leverage by legislation. existing leverage has to be unwound in an orderly manner or we'd face a crisis which would dwarf the present one. but even if the latter (orderly unwinding) was the case, the financial system, as we know it, would cease to exist.

[LaoPo]

You are twisting my words. You cast your words as if I said that European countries do not allow senior citizens to buy new mortgages above 60 or older. As if it was by law...You know very well that I didn't say that.

I said it will be impossible for them to get mortgages but a bank will never say that it is because of age.

LaoPo

Now you are flat out not telling the truth. Below is what you wrote a few posts back. Memory slipping a little? Maybe TV should not allow older posters to participate; just as you claim Europe doen't allow them to obtain mortgages. Also, what are you saying above. As I understamd it, you are telling us that banks won't give loans to seniors and lie to them, telling them age wasn't the reason. Now isn't that noble of them.

What you wrote:

"In most European countries mortgages are NOT GIVEN out anymore to citizens over 65.....even at 60 or lower in age."

OK ?

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

A lot of blame to pass around ( Lenders, government, builders, borrowers...).

...Government>>lenders>>>>>builders>>>>>>borrowers that's the sequence.

The problem NOW is that the Government and lenders can breath because of the bail out....the others can't. They suffocate.

The most responsible ones to be blamed walk away...Joe Mainstreet ALWAYS pay the bill, left on the table.

LaoPo

Please explain how the average Joe foots the bill when almost all the federal taxes are paid by the non-average Joe. Stop being dramatic and get a grip on reality. Your populist posts are getting pathetic.

For some people being polite is difficult if someone else doesn't agree with his views and that's sad; I wouldn't call it pathetic.... since it says more about the other rather than myself...

If you behave the same with your clients, I pity you....but the client even more.

LaoPo

[Naam]

back to the crisis. the bad news is.... that the bad news keep coming

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Property lender Hypo Real Estate (HRE) (HRXG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) fought for its life on Saturday after German banks and insurers pulled out of a state-led 35 billion euro ($48.5 billion) rescue program stitched together only days ago.

The news is a fresh blow for the global financial system struggling to master an unprecedented crisis of confidence and poses a political challenge for the Berlin government, which has been fighting efforts to arrange a pan-European bank bailout.

"The 35 billion euro rescue package promised to the Hypo Real Estate Group and extending into 2009 announced last week is currently withdrawn," the Munich-based real estate and public-sector lender said in a brief statement.

"The intended rescue package involved a liquidity line to be provided by a consortium of several financial institutions. The consortium has now declined to provide the line."

HRE said it was investigating alternative measures and that its major shareholders were standing by the bank, but the sudden turn of events added a sense of drama to efforts to restore a sense of order to a badly shaken world of finance.

"We are fighting for the future existence of the company," HRE spokesman Hans Obermeier said.

"We can only assume and hope that all parties participating in these discussions are fully aware of the seriousness of the situation," Obermeier added.

TAKEN BY SURPRISE

A finance ministry spokesman said Berlin was taken by surprise by the news and would seek to compile more information on Sunday. "We hope that everyone is aware of their responsibility," he added.

Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank, and markets and financial industry regulator Bafin declined to comment.

Sources familiar with the matter told Reuters that the German financial sector had balked at the plan after fresh financing shortfalls had emerged at the weekend. They had then insisted that Berlin take on a greater role in saving the bank.

German banks and insurers had nailed down final terms of the rescue package only during protracted and difficult negotiations in the early hours of Friday morning. They were to absorb 8.5 billion euros of the deal while the public sector was to shoulder the rest.

The deal was designed to ensure HRE had enough funding to ensure it could function properly even though the short-term interbank lending market it depends on has practically halted.

Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), Germany's biggest listed bank which played a key part in the HRE plan, and its smaller rival Commerzbank (CBKG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) declined to comment on Saturday.

Hypo Real Estate was the fifth German bank to be bailed out in the wake of the credit market turmoil stemming from the United States.

Shares in Hypo Real hit a low of 3.30 euros on September 29 but have rallied on the rescue plan, gaining 41.4 percent on Friday to close at 7.51 euros.

[flying]

To our Euro members.

What is happening there ?

Today it is all over the news here. The banking crisis there & how they may pump 42 billion into their banking systems?

Do we need a Euro Banking crisis thread? I hope not.

EDIT: Wow our posts must have been at the same Time Naam.

Thanks will read now.

Edited October 4, 2008 by flying

[LaoPo]

back to the crisis. the bad news is.... that the bad news keep coming

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Property lender Hypo Real Estate (HRE) (HRXG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) fought for its life on Saturday after German banks and insurers pulled out of a state-led 35 billion euro ($48.5 billion) rescue program stitched together only days ago.

The news is a fresh blow for the global financial system struggling to master an unprecedented crisis of confidence and poses a political challenge for the Berlin government, which has been fighting efforts to arrange a pan-European bank bailout.

"The 35 billion euro rescue package promised to the Hypo Real Estate Group and extending into 2009 announced last week is currently withdrawn," the Munich-based real estate and public-sector lender said in a brief statement.

As I understand the situation from German news sources, the Deutsche Bank claimed that at least € 50 Billion was needed until the end of 2008, whilst at least € 70 to 100 € Billion was needed until the end of 2009...in order to save Hypo Real Estate.

Ouch.

http://www.wirtschaftsblatt.at/home/zeitun...?_vl_pos=r.1.NT

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

No banks bail-out fund for Europe

Europe's biggest economies have agreed to work together to support financial institutions - but without forming a joint bail-out fund.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy hosted the meeting of the leaders of Britain, Germany and Italy in Paris.

They agreed to seek a relaxation of the EU rules governing the amount of money individual states could borrow.

Mr Sarkozy announced a series of other measures - including unspecified action against the executives of failed banks.

Speaking after the meeting at a joint news conference, he said the four had agreed that the leaders of a financial institution that had to be rescued should be "sanctioned".

Mr Sarkozy added: "Each government will operate with its own methods and means, but in a co-ordinated manner."

Continues here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7648249.stm

Note:

It's of course quite an obstacle for the 4 (largest) EU economies -present at the meeting- to decide if such a Bail Out-Fund would be accepted by the remaining 23 EU members...

The Netherlands did it their own way and bought the Dutch portion of Dutch/Belgian Bank/Insurer FORTIS for € 16.8 Billion. That INCLUDES the largest Bank in Holland, ABN AMRO, which Dutch assets were sold to Fortis last year for € 24 Billion...go figure. (the other ABN AMRO -foreign- offices/assets/wealth managment were sold to Royal Bank of Scotland and Spain's Banco de Santander for another € 46 Billion)

The € 16.8 Billion is ALSO including the Insurance branch of Fortis as well as the Fortis Bank assets in The Netherlands.

In fact they nationalized FORTIS - The Netherlands.

The government, together with the Central Bank did a very good job and bought the lot for a bargain. They will sell the assets again when the situation is back to normal, whenever that is.

LaoPo

[flying]

Side note but I think it was lannarebirth who mentioned this site?

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/

I just wanted to say I find it very informative & easy to read.

Lots of good entries.

[Pakboong]

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”

Woodrow Wilson

[Naam]

To our Euro members. What is happening there ? Today it is all over the news here. The banking crisis there & how they may pump 42 billion into their banking systems?

Do we need a Euro Banking crisis thread? I hope not.

i don't think we need a separate thread, but i know that we have a banking crisis in Euroland

[flying]

i don't think we need a separate thread, but i know that we have a banking crisis in Euroland

You know I did know that but I did not realize it was so bad.

I thought it was after shocks from the US & mainly fear.

But now I see it is much more.

Also reading today a couple things today from that site

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...in-trouble.html

http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2...into-abyss.html

I know banks are banks & they all chased profits but.... Is this all tied back to what I called counterfiet the other day when I read about the German banks that could not forclose on paper they held due to lack of deeds?

This mess continues to amaze me.

[flying]

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Woodrow Wilson

That was Great !

Here is one from Abraham Lincoln in 1837

“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people’s money to settle the quarrel.” – Abraham Lincoln, speech to Illinois legislature, January 1837

[Pakboong]

"A few days ago, the President of the United States with a white face and shaking hands, went before the Senate of behalf of the moneyed interests and asked the Senate to levy a tax on the people so that foreigners might know that these United States would pay its debt to them.

"Most Americans thought it was the other way around. What does these United States owe foreigners? When and by whom was the debt incurred? It was incurred by the Fed, when they peddled the signature of the Government to foreigners- for a Price. It is what the United States Government has to pay to redeem the obligations of the Fed.

Sounds familiar. That president was Herbert Hoover

Edited October 5, 2008 by Pakboong

[midas]

OK - I have a quesition, apologies if it has been covered already.

The banking system is being part-nationalised. Nearly every government is pushing for tighter regulation and therefore de-leveraging. So, banks have leveraged up a couple of trillion to 50 (estimate). If government calls for say max 2.5x leverage then what will happen to the the remaining 45tn ? Will it disapear? Does it even exist? Who will pay ($7500 for every man woman & child in existence)?

ace what absolutely incredible and fascinating information. I would like to know more about this. Can I ask where you saw these figures ?

the figures Ace quoted are correct Midas. each and every bank worldwide is leveraged a multiple based not only on its capitalisation but also based on the deposits of its clients. but there is no way to introduce suddenly a maximum leverage by legislation. existing leverage has to be unwound in an orderly manner or we'd face a crisis which would dwarf the present one. but even if the latter (orderly unwinding) was the case, the financial system, as we know it, would cease to exist.

Thanks Naam ! No its just that I had never heard of it possibly being that high.

What an unbelievable mess ?

[Naam]

OK - I have a quesition, apologies if it has been covered already.

The banking system is being part-nationalised. Nearly every government is pushing for tighter regulation and therefore de-leveraging. So, banks have leveraged up a couple of trillion to 50 (estimate). If government calls for say max 2.5x leverage then what will happen to the the remaining 45tn ? Will it disapear? Does it even exist? Who will pay ($7500 for every man woman & child in existence)?

ace what absolutely incredible and fascinating information. I would like to know more about this. Can I ask where you saw these figures ?

the figures Ace quoted are correct Midas. each and every bank worldwide is leveraged a multiple based not only on its capitalisation but also based on the deposits of its clients. but there is no way to introduce suddenly a maximum leverage by legislation. existing leverage has to be unwound in an orderly manner or we'd face a crisis which would dwarf the present one. but even if the latter (orderly unwinding) was the case, the financial system, as we know it, would cease to exist.

Thanks Naam ! No its just that I had never heard of it possibly being that high.

What an unbelievable mess ?

then i better not tell you the estimated total amount of derivatives floating around (except if you ask). i don't want to spoil your relaxing weekend

[VegasVic]

OK - I have a quesition, apologies if it has been covered already.

The banking system is being part-nationalised. Nearly every government is pushing for tighter regulation and therefore de-leveraging. So, banks have leveraged up a couple of trillion to 50 (estimate). If government calls for say max 2.5x leverage then what will happen to the the remaining 45tn ? Will it disapear? Does it even exist? Who will pay ($7500 for every man woman & child in existence)?

ace what absolutely incredible and fascinating information. I would like to know more about this. Can I ask where you saw these figures ?

the figures Ace quoted are correct Midas. each and every bank worldwide is leveraged a multiple based not only on its capitalisation but also based on the deposits of its clients. but there is no way to introduce suddenly a maximum leverage by legislation. existing leverage has to be unwound in an orderly manner or we'd face a crisis which would dwarf the present one. but even if the latter (orderly unwinding) was the case, the financial system, as we know it, would cease to exist.

Thanks Naam ! No its just that I had never heard of it possibly being that high.

What an unbelievable mess ?

then i better not tell you the estimated total amount of derivatives floating around (except if you ask). i don't want to spoil your relaxing weekend

A couple of years ago the total nominal ammount of swaps and derivatives worldwide combined was around $350 trillion U.S., I believe that the number escalated to north of $600 trillion U.S. earlier this year What with all the hedge funds and investment banks going under as of late the number currrently could be back under $600 trillion U.S. I still think that even at under $600 trillion U.S. it is still over 10 times what the entire world GDP is! A very special thanks goes to the braintrust at J.P.Morgan and Company for coming up with CDS's back in the mid 90's, and of course to the U.S. President (slick willie)and key members of Congress (lets see Chris Dodd and Charlie Schumer come to mind) at the time who were in the back pocket of Wall Street and felt that no transparency, oversight or regulation was really needed!!! It will be interesting to see what kind of bailout plan the E.U. and G.B. come out with next week Why do these things always occur in October, it really puts a damper on my birthday!

[VegasVic]

I'm 25 years away from 65, but if someone told me I couldn't get mortgage because of my age, I would be furious.

That's exactly why the American crisis is where it is now; -in bed, in hospital with a Bail Out Pill of $700 Billion- but there is NO subprime crisis in Europe; we just suffer from the lousy products sold to us of which the buyers have to take their responsibility as well.

But, the basic mortgage industry situation in Europe is by far not so bad as in the US although it varies from country to country but still not so sick.

The difference between America and Europe is the behavior in spending. America is by far...champion in spending; we still know how to save, a little.

That's one of the big differences, the other is the behavior in paying.

Americans pay mostly with credit cards. Europeans with debit cards or cash.

All in all I think Europeans are more conservative in their spending and paying behavior.

LaoPo

"the basic mortgage industry situation in Europe is BY FAR not so bad as in the U.S." I have a funny feeling that I will be refering back to this post a few months from now

[VegasVic]

LIBOR is EIGHT standard deviations from its norm. If you are a statistician, you will know that is mind boggling. At this CDS auctuion coming up I expected some are going to get the shaft, some are going to commit near theft, and some who thought they had got away with a theft are going to get shafted instead.

Yes indeed the TED spreads are getting very scary

[VegasVic]

Clearly midas, evrything that has been done thusfar is in preparation for some event or series of events that are likely to take place. Are we aware of all the likely events? Probably not, and certainly not their outcomes. Additionally, I can't remember a time when "the system" was more vulnerable to damage from exogenous events like sudden warfare or large scale terrorist attack.

Lannarebirth all sorts of things are going through my mind. What if it's not just a financial incident.

What happens if on top of all the financial mess Israel decides to go for Iran

before there is a possible Democrat in the White House. This month has several more

significant dates in Israel and it's considered if they did attack, it would be one of those

dates. It would be horrible on top of what's already happened

I don't really follow the news much, so I couldn't say what may or may not happen in Israel or elsewhere. If I were worried about warfare I'd be much more concerned about NATO-Russia incidents.

I get a lot of information from a lot of varying sources. One of the seemingly flakiest of sources is the "web-bots report" courtesy of a friend of mine. It has been remarkably prescient in forecasting specific events taking place, many months in advance. the latest thing he sent me from them says "people will remember October 7th the same way they remember 9-11". Have no idea what that means , if anything, but it never hurts to have a little cash on hand and a full cupboard.

The web bot project is not as flakey as many think! While I have not heard of any prognostication for Oct. 7th, I am aware of some for Dec. 21st 2012, the date on which precesion of the planets culminates and the ancient Mayan claendar ends.

[VegasVic]

Clearly midas, evrything that has been done thusfar is in preparation for some event or series of events that are likely to take place. Are we aware of all the likely events? Probably not, and certainly not their outcomes. Additionally, I can't remember a time when "the system" was more vulnerable to damage from exogenous events like sudden warfare or large scale terrorist attack.

Lannarebirth all sorts of things are going through my mind. What if it's not just a financial incident.

What happens if on top of all the financial mess Israel decides to go for Iran

before there is a possible Democrat in the White House. This month has several more

significant dates in Israel and it's considered if they did attack, it would be one of those

dates. It would be horrible on top of what's already happened

I don't really follow the news much, so I couldn't say what may or may not happen in Israel or elsewhere. If I were worried about warfare I'd be much more concerned about NATO-Russia incidents.

I get a lot of information from a lot of varying sources. One of the seemingly flakiest of sources is the "web-bots report" courtesy of a friend of mine. It has been remarkably prescient in forecasting specific events taking place, many months in advance. the latest thing he sent me from them says "people will remember October 7th the same way they remember 9-11". Have no idea what that means , if anything, but it never hurts to have a little cash on hand and a full cupboard.

And I'm not so much worried about NATO-Russia - because if it came to the brink

I'm confident the two leaders of civilized countries would be able to work it out again

-like they did in the Cuban missile crisis all those years ago and stakes were much higher then

But Israel and Iran is a completely different ballgame. Iran has nothing to lose because

according to their religious values they don't regard death as being a tragedy as we do.

It has to come to blows eventually because Iran's president continually threatens Israel

with being " wiped off the earth " - these two nations hate each other with such venom

like we have never seen before and when it involves a nuclear issue- I follow every news item.

October 9th is Yom Kippur Day in Israel which their solemn day which I am watching out for.

O.K. we have Oct. 7th and Oct. 9th taken, so let me predict that on Oct.8th the 5th Imam will return

[LaoPo]

But, the basic mortgage industry situation in Europe is by far not so bad as in the US although it varies from country to country but still not so sick.

LaoPo

"the basic mortgage industry situation in Europe is BY FAR not so bad as in the U.S." I have a funny feeling that I will be refering back to this post a few months from now

If you quote Vic, better quote correct.

Yes, I think the basic mortgage industry[ situationb] in Europe as a whole is, by far, better than in the US.

A few countries are having housing-trouble though and I'm especially thinking about the UK and Spain where the latter is suffering of over-investment and over-building but not due to subprime mortgages.

Other countries, especially Northern EU countries are doing fine, like The Netherlands and Germany. I'm talking real estate mortgage industry here.

Whatever is happening in the Banking industry in both the US and EU, there is NO subprime crisis in Europe on a scale like America.

European banks have always been more conservative than their American ''inventive'' counterpart what mortgages are concerned.

Not so with buying lousy financial products though...

LaoPo

Edited October 5, 2008 by LaoPo