U.s. Banking Crisis: Capitalism "gone Wild"?

[lannarebirth]

Capitalists are pretty unscrupulous peole Lao Po. I can easily see them putting on their beggars clothes and dumping anything with no value on the governments balance sheet. Heretofore I never would have believed a government would even consider such measures. The worse the business the more it will drain. They will be exposed in time and the citizenry will be enraged (of course they didn't care much when it was going up). I never thought I would utter these words, but it appears "this time is different".

Edited October 7, 2008 by lannarebirth

[LaoPo]

Capitalists are pretty unscrupulous peole Lao Po. I can easily see them putting on their beggars clothes and dumping anything with no value on the governments balance sheet. Heretofore I never would have believed a government would even consider such measures. The worse the business the more it will drain. They will be exposed in time and the citizenry will be enraged (of course they didn't care much when it was going up). I never thought I would utter these words, but it appears "this time is different".

I can't do much more than fully agree...like I said: it's UNHEARD of.

The constant stream of rumors and facts are mixing now into the financial world and stock markets as well as regular economy are speeding down

I've never seen a situation like this one and it's pretty scary.

I was just thinking that the OP title is much better chosen then I thought at first:

Has Capitalism "gone Wild"? It has.

The problem is that IF Government(s) do NOT rescue the (coming up) failures of very large companies, Millions and millions of people would hit the street -worldwide- and the amounts of money this would cost to the various governments are much larger than bailing them out/saving 'm now...

It's a choice between two very bad options.

LaoPo

[midas]

ahemm... cough... cough... Gentlemen TEN HUTT! (for those who have never served it means ATTENTION!) we all have something to contribute and we could [perhaps] learn from each other whether the contributions are factual or plain bullshÍt. facts brought up but unkown to us might make us think. bullshÍt might amuse us. as far as i am concerned i like personal attacks because i consider them amusing and being a Klingon (at heart) i even enjoy them. but we do not learn, do not exchange information when focussing on personal attacks instead of having meaningful discussions. i suggest we turn over to a new leaf, refrain from personal attacks (pulling legs in a friendly manner should be still allowed) and start a new chapter.

agreed or yes!?

Yes Naam - sound suggestion.

So this time I would like some help with a question put to me yesterday during a trip to Hanoi.

A Vietnamese was asking me if I knew how badly these current problems following the USA

bailout could further affect the finances of the individual States in th USA. He already knew about the

situation in California but he was asking me if I knew how many other States in the USA have a ' fragile '

financial situation in terms of inability to pay their debts ? I said I didnt know but I would pose this

question on this site ?

[LaoPo]

Yes Naam - sound suggestion.

So this time I would like some help with a question put to me yesterday during a trip to Hanoi.

A Vietnamese was asking me if I knew how badly these current problems following the USA

bailout could further affect the finances of the individual States in th USA. He already knew about the

situation in California but he was asking me if I knew how many other States in the USA have a ' fragile '

financial situation in terms of inability to pay their debts ? I said I didnt know but I would pose this

question on this site ?

1. That's an amazing question from a Vietnamese and I wonder WHY he wants to know HOW MUCH debt Arizona, Idaho, New York state or Maine have -unable to pay for-....

2. Maybe this link can help ? but, I didn't have a look yet...

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

Yes Naam - sound suggestion.

So this time I would like some help with a question put to me yesterday during a trip to Hanoi.

A Vietnamese was asking me if I knew how badly these current problems following the USA

bailout could further affect the finances of the individual States in th USA. He already knew about the

situation in California but he was asking me if I knew how many other States in the USA have a ' fragile '

financial situation in terms of inability to pay their debts ? I said I didnt know but I would pose this

question on this site ?

1. That's an amazing question from a Vietnamese and I wonder WHY he wants to know HOW MUCH debt Arizona, Idaho, New York state or Maine have -unable to pay for-....

2. Maybe this link can help ? but, I didn't have a look yet...

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

LaoPo

The largest concentration of Vietnamese in America is in Orange County, California, birthplace of another American financial debacle. Maybe he's got kinfolk there who put some fear into him. Just guessing.

Edited October 7, 2008 by lannarebirth

[LaoPo]

Yes Naam - sound suggestion.

So this time I would like some help with a question put to me yesterday during a trip to Hanoi.

A Vietnamese was asking me if I knew how badly these current problems following the USA

bailout could further affect the finances of the individual States in th USA. He already knew about the

situation in California but he was asking me if I knew how many other States in the USA have a ' fragile '

financial situation in terms of inability to pay their debts ? I said I didnt know but I would pose this

question on this site ?

1. That's an amazing question from a Vietnamese and I wonder WHY he wants to know HOW MUCH debt Arizona, Idaho, New York state or Maine have -unable to pay for-....

2. Maybe this link can help ? but, I didn't have a look yet...

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

LaoPo

Thanks and Good point; I forgot all about the ''inheritance'' of the War in Vietnam...

LaoPo

The largest concentration of Vietnamese in America is in Orange County, California, birthplace of another American financial debacle. Maybe he's got kinfolk there who put some fear into him. Just guessing.

[meom]

The problem is that IF Government(s) do NOT rescue the (coming up) failures of very large companies, Millions and millions of people would hit the street -worldwide- and the amounts of money this would cost to the various governments are much larger than bailing them out/saving 'm now...

It's a choice between two very bad options.

LaoPo

How about if the USA just default on all dollar denominated debt, declares a bank holiday followed by the introduction of a new dollar backed by gold or something?

Would this make matters worse or better?

[lannarebirth]

The problem is that IF Government(s) do NOT rescue the (coming up) failures of very large companies, Millions and millions of people would hit the street -worldwide- and the amounts of money this would cost to the various governments are much larger than bailing them out/saving 'm now...

It's a choice between two very bad options.

LaoPo

How about if the USA just default on all dollar denominated debt, declares a bank holiday followed by the introduction of a new dollar backed by gold or something?

Would this make matters worse or better?

Infinitely worse.

[lannarebirth]

Sad to say, the crisis does not appear to be winding down. One reason the market acted so skittishly Monday is that it simply can’t wait six weeks or so before the government is ready to start buying the first $250 billion worth of toxic securities from troubled firms. In normal times, this would seem blazingly fast. In these compressed times, it seems terribly slow. The markets want to know — right now — whether the bailout plan will work.

Another reason is that certain ominous dates are fast approaching. One is Oct. 23, when the auction will take place to settle the credit-default swaps relating to the Lehman bankruptcy. I saw one estimate that the amount of money firms will owe each other could be as much as $400 billion. Why? Firms that insured against the risk of a Lehman default are going to owe billions to other firms — but they’ll want to collect from the firms with whom they laid off the risk. And so on down the line. The upshot is that many firms are not going to have the money to pay off the insurance claims they owe, and they are likely to be ruined.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/business...;pagewanted=all

[LaoPo]

A very positive sign in the ocean of bad news

Consumers pay down debt for first time in 10 years

Outstanding debt falls by record $7.5 billion in August, Fed says

By MarketWatch

Last update: 3:08 p.m. EDT Oct. 7, 2008

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- U.S. families paid off consumer debts at the fastest pace in more than 10 years in August, a sign that consumers are rushing to pare back their spending and save more money as the economy slips deeper into recession.

It was the first month since January 1998 that consumers had paid off more debt than they took on.

Borrowing to buy an automobile declined sharply. Consumers also charged less on their credit cards than they paid off.

Seasonally adjusted consumer debt -- including credit cards, auto loans and other unsecured debts -- fell by a record $7.5 billion, or a 3.7% annual rate, to $2.58 trillion in August. That's the largest percentage drop since January 1998, the Federal Reserve reported Tuesday. Consumer debts had risen 2.4% in July.

The figures do not include mortgages or other debts secured by real estate, such as home-equity loans.

Paying off debt means households will have healthier finances, but it also means sharply reduced consumer spending and weaker economic growth for the nation. Many economists believe consumer spending declined in the third quarter of the year for the first time since the early 1990s.

Nonrevolving credit -- such as auto loans, personal loans and student loans -- dropped sharply by $7.3 billion, or 5.4%, to $1.61 trillion, after rising 0.9% in July. It was the largest percentage decline in 16 years. Auto sales actually increased in August, according to industry and government data, before plunging to a 16-year low in September.

Credit-card debt dropped by $612 million, or 0.8%, to $969 billion in August. It was the largest percentage decline in three years

MarketWatch/THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

LaoPo

[Naam]

ahemm... cough... cough... Gentlemen TEN HUTT! (for those who have never served it means ATTENTION!) we all have something to contribute and we could [perhaps] learn from each other whether the contributions are factual or plain bullshÍt. facts brought up but unkown to us might make us think. bullshÍt might amuse us. as far as i am concerned i like personal attacks because i consider them amusing and being a Klingon (at heart) i even enjoy them. but we do not learn, do not exchange information when focussing on personal attacks instead of having meaningful discussions. i suggest we turn over to a new leaf, refrain from personal attacks (pulling legs in a friendly manner should be still allowed) and start a new chapter.

agreed or yes!?

Yes Naam - sound suggestion.

So this time I would like some help with a question put to me yesterday during a trip to Hanoi.

A Vietnamese was asking me if I knew how badly these current problems following the USA

bailout could further affect the finances of the individual States in th USA. He already knew about the

situation in California but he was asking me if I knew how many other States in the USA have a ' fragile '

financial situation in terms of inability to pay their debts ? I said I didnt know but I would pose this

question on this site ?

Midas, shooting from the hip i'd say that no individual state will go bankrupt except in the highly unlikely event that the United States defaults on its liabilities.

[PeaceBlondie]

The USA is fifty separate states, each with its own constitution and budget laws. Some, like Texas, are simply never allowed to run an annual or bienniel debt based on the comptroller's estimate of tax revenue. That is why silly G W Bush could say he had a balanced budget in his years as honorary governor of the second largest state - by law, he had to.

My friend in Georgia is worried because his state agency faces a horrendous deficit this year, which state law forbids. He fears the agency will lay off thousands. So, it differs between states and between state agencies. Orange County was a great example of a county failing, and I think it was crazy investments in derivatives that brought it down. You also have cities that can default, and other public entities. Very complex. Very astute Vietnamese; I cannot imagine my Thai ajarn friend )who has traveled in the States, and is married to a Thai banker), asking such a question.

[lannarebirth]

Somebody get a rope.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...007083aig1.html

Edited October 8, 2008 by lannarebirth

[siamamerican]

Somebody get a rope.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...007083aig1.html

Usually the vendor and accomodation contracts are signed a year in advance for these type of events. The penalties paid to cancel are extensive, but that is exactly what the fools should have done.

What a publicity nightmare. It was all over the US papers today.

[LaoPo]

Somebody get a rope.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...007083aig1.html

One rope will be enough ?

Maybe these AIG chaps were tired, negotiating the $ 85 Billion Bail Out and needed a week off ? I mean what's $ 443,343 in comparison to 85 Billion ?

Right: peanuts.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Lannarebirth:

Any comment to this ?

AMEX:QID

http://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&...:QID&ntsp=0

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

Lannarebirth:

Any comment to this ?

AMEX:QID

http://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&...:QID&ntsp=0

LaoPo

Well, that's not an investment, it's a trade. It had a breakaway gap 2 days ago which will likely be filled at some point. If I were just considering entry at this (late?) point, I'd probably buy the gap fill. I hold it in my retirement account and have not sold it yet FWIW.

[LaoPo]

Lannarebirth:

Any comment to this ?

AMEX:QID

http://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&...:QID&ntsp=0

LaoPo

Well, that's not an investment, it's a trade. It had a breakaway gap 2 days ago which will likely be filled at some point. If I were just considering entry at this (late?) point, I'd probably buy the gap fill. I hold it in my retirement account and have not sold it yet FWIW.

Thanks !

I have no clue about these trades; not my piece of cake and I learned one thing in the past: Don't touch anything if you don't understand what the heck it's all about.

So, I'm not trying to be a wiseguy. That's what we have YOU for

Question: does one (like yourself) invest in that trade..? and WHO manages the trade ? Is it steered by some people or -just- the markets ?

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

Seemingly, this emergency rate cut was priced into the market to a certain extent. the question is, knowing funds MUST liquidate, how much higher can it go before the selling starts anew. Very orderly selling thusfar and today was shaping up to be caqpitulatory. Maybe the Fed action is correct but from where I sit they are just broadcasting how ineffectual they really are.

[lannarebirth]

Lannarebirth:

Any comment to this ?

AMEX:QID

http://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&...:QID&ntsp=0

LaoPo

Well, that's not an investment, it's a trade. It had a breakaway gap 2 days ago which will likely be filled at some point. If I were just considering entry at this (late?) point, I'd probably buy the gap fill. I hold it in my retirement account and have not sold it yet FWIW.

Thanks !

I have no clue about these trades; not my piece of cake and I learned one thing in the past: Don't touch anything if you don't understand what the heck it's all about.

So, I'm not trying to be a wiseguy. That's what we have YOU for

Question: does one (like yourself) invest in that trade..? and WHO manages the trade ? Is it steered by some people or -just- the markets ?

LaoPo

I do. It's been a great year for me because this market suits my sensibilities and my skill set. If it moved back to 25 P/E's or higher, I'd have the same skill set, but I'd look like the stupidest guy here, believe me.

Edited October 8, 2008 by lannarebirth

[PCA]

Lannarebirth:

Any comment to this ?

AMEX:QID

http://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&...:QID&ntsp=0

LaoPo

Well, that's not an investment, it's a trade. It had a breakaway gap 2 days ago which will likely be filled at some point. If I were just considering entry at this (late?) point, I'd probably buy the gap fill. I hold it in my retirement account and have not sold it yet FWIW.

Thanks !

I have no clue about these trades; not my piece of cake and I learned one thing in the past: Don't touch anything if you don't understand what the heck it's all about.

So, I'm not trying to be a wiseguy. That's what we have YOU for

Question: does one (like yourself) invest in that trade..? and WHO manages the trade ? Is it steered by some people or -just- the markets ?

LaoPo

QID is Nasdaq (QQQQ) Ultrashort with a leverage of 1:2. Lanna you must be a real longterm bear holding that in your retirement fund, hahaha.

[lannarebirth]

Lannarebirth:

Any comment to this ?

AMEX:QID

http://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&...:QID&ntsp=0

LaoPo

Well, that's not an investment, it's a trade. It had a breakaway gap 2 days ago which will likely be filled at some point. If I were just considering entry at this (late?) point, I'd probably buy the gap fill. I hold it in my retirement account and have not sold it yet FWIW.

Thanks !

I have no clue about these trades; not my piece of cake and I learned one thing in the past: Don't touch anything if you don't understand what the heck it's all about.

So, I'm not trying to be a wiseguy. That's what we have YOU for

Question: does one (like yourself) invest in that trade..? and WHO manages the trade ? Is it steered by some people or -just- the markets ?

LaoPo

QID is Nasdaq (QQQQ) Ultrashort with a leverage of 1:2. Lanna you must be a real longterm bear holding that in your retirement fund, hahaha.

In my case it's 1:4 (should have had it at 1:8). Anyway it's a self directed IRA at IB, so I can do whatever I want , whenever I want. Not locked into any funds or anything. 3 of 3 may have ended today.

[Naam]

In my case it's 1:4 (should have had it at 1:8). Anyway it's a self directed IRA at IB, so I can do whatever I want , whenever I want. Not locked into any funds or anything. 3 of 3 may have ended today.

LRB, old friend. you sound like i sounded (in olden times) after my wife took away the second bottle of portwine which i opened (illegally and behind her back) and poured the second the glass

[lannarebirth]

In my case it's 1:4 (should have had it at 1:8). Anyway it's a self directed IRA at IB, so I can do whatever I want , whenever I want. Not locked into any funds or anything. 3 of 3 may have ended today.

LRB, old friend. you sound like i sounded (in olden times) after my wife took away the second bottle of portwine which i opened (illegally and behind her back) and poured the second the glass

The fact is Herr Naam, I truly hate this shit. The fact that I'm pretty good at it and market conditions are in favor of my methods are the only reason I'm doing it. I look forward to the bottom, when I can turn this whole mess over to someone else. Almost everyone is better in a Bull market, than I am, but there are few better (that i've met) in a bear market. I'd like to get back to my pretty good life (assuming the US Treasury doesn't implode) as soon as I'm able.

[Naam]

In my case it's 1:4 (should have had it at 1:8). Anyway it's a self directed IRA at IB, so I can do whatever I want , whenever I want. Not locked into any funds or anything. 3 of 3 may have ended today.

LRB, old friend. you sound like i sounded (in olden times) after my wife took away the second bottle of portwine which i opened (illegally and behind her back) and poured the second the glass

The fact is Herr Naam, I truly hate this shit. The fact that I'm pretty good at it and market conditions are in favor of my methods are the only reason I'm doing it. I look forward to the bottom, when I can turn this whole mess over to someone else. Almost everyone is better in a Bull market, than I am, but there are few better (that i've met) in a bear market. I'd like to get back to my pretty good life (assuming the US Treasury doesn't implode) as soon as I'm able.

you hate your shit Honourable LRB and i hate my shit. the fact remains we deal with our shit day by day because some mysterious force tells us we can't live without dealing with shit. i'd rather play chess with you, sip a good Port and puff a Habana than dealing with the daily shit... alas...

[AlexLah]

I have told you in the past and I will tell you in the future.

The first and second week, my words have been marked.

Follow the money and understand the 7th principle.

13 is the number and the next is 7.

Alex

[LaoPo]

I have told you in the past and I will tell you in the future.

The first and second week, my words have been marked.

Follow the money and understand the 7th principle.

13 is the number and the next is 7.

Alex

If I'm correct you predicted something real bad would happen the first week of October; you were right; my compliments, not for the <deleted> but correctness. Other than that I thought the past few posts were written in Klingon language...and according to TV rules only English is allowed

What's the 13 and 7th ? Car to tell ?

LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

I have told you in the past and I will tell you in the future.

The first and second week, my words have been marked.

Follow the money and understand the 7th principle.

13 is the number and the next is 7.

Alex

If I'm correct you predicted something real bad would happen the first week of October; you were right; my compliments, not for the <deleted> but correctness. Other than that I thought the past few posts were written in Klingon language...and according to TV rules only English is allowed

What's the 13 and 7th ? Car to tell ?

LaoPo

Hey Lao Po. Remember Mahendra's prediction of a July 7th top in commodities?

Lower again today.

[LaoPo]

Somebody get a rope.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...007083aig1.html

They picked your message and listened....

AIG `Reevaluating' Costs After $440,000 Conference, Liddy Says

By Hugh Son and Erik Holm

Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc., the insurer that hosted a $440,000 event at a California resort less than a week after receiving an $85 billion federal loan, said it is ``reevaluating'' its costs a day after facing Congressional criticism for the trip.

``While this sort of gathering has been standard practice in our industry for many years and was planned many months before the Federal Reserve's loan to AIG, we understand that our company is now facing very different challenges,'' Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy wrote today in a letter to U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. ``We owe our employees and the American public new standards and approaches,'' he wrote.

Lawmakers lashed out at AIG yesterday for ``wining and dining'' executives in a weeklong conference at the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, California, days after the government stepped in. Representative Henry Waxman and three members of his Oversight and Government Reform Committee sent Paulson a letter asking him to ``protect the taxpayers' money'' and end ``profligate spending'' by AIG.

``Let me assure you that we are reevaluating the costs of all aspects of our operations in light of the new circumstances in which we are all operating,'' Liddy said.

-Bloomberg

''..standard practice in our industry...'' .....it's always easy to spend money belonging to others...SO, who are we going to hang....?

LaoPo

[flying]

Somebody get a rope.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...007083aig1.html

Due to the financial hardships a rope would pose on their investors ( us the taxpayers ) I vote for the use of sticks & stones

Wonder when the Lehman Brothers party starts?

Edited October 9, 2008 by flying