How To Take A Bike Away From Someone Who Is Dangerous With It?

[submaniac]

Hey folks,

Well, some of you may have seen my earlier post where I was taking opinions about whether I should buy my cousin's 400cc bike, which his father had ordered him to sell. I was just over there, and have ridden the bike, and have observed my cousin's 'riding technique' (or lack thereof), and am just downright SCARED of him having the bike because he is an accident waiting to happen. I seriously seriously think that it is only a matter of time before he is injured or killed on the bike, and I am wondering what the best way would be to take the bike away from him.

As a little backdrop, this is my favorite cousin who I love to death. He is 19 years old, and has ZILCH in terms of previous riding experience. His 'experience' is the past month or so since he bought the bike. What worries me is that he just does not know how to respect a motorcycle, and really does not have the maturity let alone the riding skill to handle a powerful bike. He thinks because his friends ride big bikes he can too (but his friends have been riding scooters since they were 12 and didn't just hop onto a bike). The bike in question is an FZR 400. I just spent the weekend riding it, and it is a FAST bike. I suppose those of us from the USA would consider the 400cc bike a small bike and good for a beginner, but this is Thailand, and for here, that is a fast bike. At least faster than the CBR 150s, Ninja 250s or NSR'S that we normally come accross. The main problem is that it has a higher top speed than most of the bikes in LOS and it revs to 14,000 rpm--an when he hops on the bike he tries to go through the gears as fast as possible.

Specific examples which make me nervous about him having the bike is that he told me he has hit 160km/h---he lives in BANGKOK, and this is on the streets of BKK. One I firt saw the bike, he did a wicked burn out to impress me. One month ago he rear ended his mitsubishi lancer on the back of a fortuner, and caused some heavy duty damage. It he was on a bike in that accident he would have been thrown and hospitalized. He has previously dropped the bike three separate occasions, and--according to my other cousin--one of the accidents he was lucky not to have been seriously injured. Despite the accident when I saw him this weekend he was fearless, and was reving the bike happily thinking he is Valentino Rossi.

Yesterday, my self, my uncle (his father) his brother (my other cousin) and his mother were all discussing over dinner (when he had left the room) that he should not have that bike. My uncle has talked to me at length about how we can take it away from him. We all know that he is immature, and likes to go fast, and now we are trying to come up with the best way to do it.

I have a Honda NSR as a spare that I keep at his house, and I told him just to take it and practice basic riding skills. I mean the NSR is fast, but it is not a bike that you hop on which makes you want to take it up to 160 km/h. But he isn't interested in the small bikes. Just the big bikes (and he tells me that he really wants to get a CBR 954). So he takes the bike when his father isn't around and runs it hard.

His father told him to get rid of the bike, and he said he would originally. But he is stalling on getting rid of the bike, and I think he really just wants to keep it and is trying to figure out how to do it. I love my cousin very much, but I know he will be hurt or killed on this thing. I've told him so many times to start off on the NSR and wait until he has developed his skill before hopping on the FZR. But my words are falling on deaf ears. It's not that I do not want him to have a nice bike, but he needs to get his maturity and judgment skills to an adult level before he should start riding.

I have been trying to be nice about it, but it doesn't seem to work. Me and Uncle are trying to figure out how to take it away from him for his own good. I really do not want him to be sore at me over this, but I like that better than having him killed on a bike he is not mature enough to ride. If you were me, or his father, what would you guys do? Just take the bike away and be done with it? Any advice appreciated.

P.S. I would also add that his father bought him a new Lancer for a car, and he usually drives that. He really does not ride the motorcycle very much, so it is like a toy for him. He only uses it for fun, but when he rides it for fun, he tries to see how fast he can go.

Edited September 21, 2008 by submaniac

[dave_boo]

Hate to say it, but your cousin is a man now. At 19 he should have at least an ounce of common sense. From the limited information I was able to gather, it sounds like he was a bit over-protected as a child. Now that he has reached adulthood, and is receiving all the privleges that goes along with it, it appears he's going overboard.

There's several things I'd suggest; if he wants to fullfill his need for speed, take him to a big track. Let him run his bike there and get his jollies. Also, print up all the pictures from this link(use the shock value). Instead of coddling him, challenge your uncle to force your cousin to make it on his own. I know of few people who would accept a vehicle being bought by them being wrecked by somebody that's obviously having issues and then buying them a new one.

And why does your uncle allow him to access the bike? I'm assuming your uncle bought it; he just needs to grow a pair and sell it. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but if his son is not responsible, ultimately your uncle is going to pay the price. Either monetarily wise or emotionally when your cousin is in traction or dead. That's what it could come to.

There also seems to be a bit of disrespect for his father. If his father told him not to ride the bike and he still takes it out behind his father's back there seems to be more of a problem than just the typical teenaged boy's fascination with speed.

Is your cousin working? If not, why not? If he won't listen to his father, perhaps he needs to be cut off. My grandfather, who I grew up with told me when I asked him to help me buy a car (not buy it for me!), "You got a job; buy it with your own dam_n money".

[unomi]

Take away the car, let him keep the bike and let evolution run its course.

Better that than having him tear into a bus stop in his Lancer later.

[BigBikeBKK]

I second Dave Boo-

Though he's acting like a child, he is an adult. If he owns the bike there is nothing you can do. If he does NOT own the bike, then the owner of the bike needs to lock it up or disable it.

Hope it turns out for the best! Good luck! :-)

Edited September 21, 2008 by BigBikeBKK

[CroBiker]

Bought my first bike when I was 14 years old high school student. Me and friend of mine were selling used goods on flea market to collect enough money. After couple of months we purchased Czech made CZ250 and gone absolutely crazy. Needless to mention, none of us had driving license or riding experience. Almost killed myself due to immature antics. My father found out about it and called police. They came and confiscated the bike. Your cousin is 19, so his father can't do such thing. I thing the best way would be to have arrange for him join one of those motorcycle clubs and take advice from older and more experienced riders. This way he won't resent you and might learn something new in process.

Edited September 21, 2008 by CroBiker

[thaicbr]

i second all of the above and add. honda and yamaha have numerous big bike rider training days available, why not get him on one of those then he will learn that speed is ok when its safe. also you have the nsr why not go for a trip with him say cha am or bangsaen. he will have to stay with you and then hopefully learn from you. (i take it you are a more careful rider).

if all else fails...... how much for the bike

[PeaceBlondie]

Not a whole lot you can do, as a cousin. You could scare his father into believing his son will soon be a corpse, or be spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair, disfigured. I had a classmate in high school - his father was our doctor - who lived fast and wild. He crashed his car and killed himself, disfiguring his girlfriend for life, before we were 19 years old. Bob was a heavy drinker, and was probably drunk when he crashed.

[MrSnrang]

Just go and snip the chain.

[BSJ]

Folks, nothing so far will be a solution. This spoiled kid thinks he is king of the hill and invincible. I haven't met him but he sounds a lot like I was at that age! There are a few solutions though.

1/ Dad gets a mechanic to come over when the kid is not around and installs throttle restricters. He goes for a ride it runs like crap, brings it home tells dad it's broken. Dad sends it to the mechanic and it never comes back!

2/ Dad gets a big hi-tensile steel chain and huge padlock then secures it to a concrete or steel pole. Kid can't complain cos he isn't supposed to be riding it!

3/ Dad sells the bike to submaniac who wants the bike and the kid has to suck it up! The kid won't like it but will get over it eventually.....maybe!

[submaniac]

Well thanks for the replies folks. I suppose everyone is correct that, technically speaking, he is an 'adult', but of course just because you're recognized under the law as an adult doesn't really mean you are one. To answer some questions, he does not work, because he is in school (sophomore at a university). The money for the bike he got by asking his mother for it. He didn't actually say it was to buy a bike...it was more like 'hey can I borrow 35k baht'...sure son. Followed by "you bought a what?!?". He is really a good kid. Spoiled? Well maybe a little bit. Uncle is actually wealthy and his kids got brand spanking new cars when they were old enough to drive...a lancer, and his brother got a camry. But really, with drugs, gambling, alcohol and whatever kids are getting into these days, the kids are good kids, and if they were my kids (and I had the financial resources to do it) yeah, I would probably buy them new cars too.

I must admit that I do understand where he is coming from too. I bought a motorcycle without permission when I was 16. And at that age I thought I was invincable too. What kept me in check was that I really did not have the financial resources to buy machines that were capable of getting me in trouble (no rich parents to buy me new cars). I bought my own car with my own money; a 1985 Plymouth Horizon for $900 USD. Really didn't want to go too fast in that because even at slow speeds it felt like it was going to fall apart. My bike was a 1970's era Honda 300cc bike, really not that powerful and really did not have sufficient power to go fast. I learned my lesson about speed and mortality at 17 when I totalled my mom's brand new car by ramming into a big Chevy suburban. Nearly being killed, made me a much safer driver from then on. What worries me is that my cousin just got in an accident in his lancer, and he did not learn his lesson. If he learns the hard way (like I did) on a bike, the consequences are going to be more severe. In all reality, while I wouldn't mind having the bike, I am more concerned that he not have it because he is a good kid and I do not want him to die or be paralyzed.

My uncle is a smart cookie, and for those of you who suggested disabling the bike, he is already ahead of you. Since my cousin got the bike, my uncle has tried his best to make it unrideable. My cousin still does not have his motorcycle license, and my uncle has thus far been able to stall him from even trying to get it. The bike has been 'down' for several weeks now. My Uncle decided that the bike 'needed' a new paint job (nevermind that it was pristine when bought from the original owner), which necessitated taking off all the fairings, and turn signals, lights, and license plate brackets while it was being painted. Of course this meant that the bike was not street legal and could only be ridden in the local sois and mooban. As I understand the painting is complete but my uncle just has not 'found the time' to pick it up. From speaking to my uncle I have a feeling that the bike will be with me for 'safekeeping' shortly (by next week) until we decide what to do. By a twist of fate, BOTH my main motorcycle and my spare NSR have developed...ummm..."problems" and it appears that for the sake of safety (of course) that my Uncle is insisting that I 'borrow' my cousins motorcycle for the time being. If anyone has any ideas of what 'future' events that could transpire to prevent its return, please share. Thanks.

[Zzinged]

Submaniac, I have a slightly different suggestion. Someone said to let him take it on the track. How about you do that, and get an instructor to teach him? If he lives in BKK he can get to the kart track behind seacon square. If you're interested, I have the number of a guy who teaches race riding skills. I've learnt with him before, and he's quite experienced. If your cousin won't listen to his family members, maybe he might listen to someone with much more experience, and whom he might hopefully respect. Send me a PM if you want to chat about this.

[submaniac]

Submaniac, I have a slightly different suggestion. Someone said to let him take it on the track. How about you do that, and get an instructor to teach him? If he lives in BKK he can get to the kart track behind seacon square. If you're interested, I have the number of a guy who teaches race riding skills. I've learnt with him before, and he's quite experienced. If your cousin won't listen to his family members, maybe he might listen to someone with much more experience, and whom he might hopefully respect. Send me a PM if you want to chat about this.

I appreciate your thoughts here, but I don't think it is viable. "Track days" and professional instruction is a good idea and will hone someone's skills. However, to get any benefit out of it, you have to have some BASIC LEVEL of riding skill. Like you already know how to ride a motorcycle, how to lean into a turn, how to brake, etc. I am talking about someone who has got ZILCH for previous riding experience. Like no basic riding skill. My friend in the states took the MSF course for his M1 license endorsement and he was telling me about people dropping their 250cc instruction bikes while going around a circle in a parking lot at 15mph. That's the kind of rider I am talking about. Someone who just passed the MSF course should not be hitting a track...and my cousin hasn't even taken the MSF course because they don't have one in Thailand!

If he was willing to learn, I would have no problem with that. Believe me, I have suggested that he take my little 150cc NSR out instead of the large cc bike, and I have offered to ride with him and instruct him, but he is not interested in any dinky little bike (nevermind that the riding track in the States near where I live uses imported Thai NSR's to instruct racing students). It's like he doesn't want to start slowly wading into it, but wants to jump off into the deep end right away. And I have seen him ride, and it worries me. Like I don't think that he can keep the bike stable at slow speeds, and I think the first time he has to make an emergency braking manuever, I KNOW he will lock up the front wheels and the bike will go down. In BKK going down means being run over by the 'green busses of death'. That is what I am worried about. Like I said, his friends have been riding scooters since they were 12, and they know the basics of what you can and cannot do on two wheels. He doesn't have even that background and doesn't want to develop even the basics.

[Zzinged]

Ohhh... THAT much riding skill. Time for an intervention maybe? Get friends and family to grab him and sit him down and tell him he's bloody stupid?

The guy I mentioned actually assesses skill level before teaching There isn't a set syllabus. It's more dynamic than that. When I went to him I had just picked up my first bike, a VFR400. He made me ride around cones at 20km/h - 30km/h for 2 hours, instructing me as I went along. It's no defensive driving course, but if he wants to be stupid the least he could do is learn how to ride properly. Of course you could just ask the instructor to look at your cousin's driving and let him tell your cousin that he sucks haha

Edited September 23, 2008 by Zzinged

[submaniac]

Well to add a little more perspective on this...he has probably had (as in able to ride the bike) for about a month (he hid it at a friend's house before my uncle found out about it). In that month, he told me he probably took it out (when his father wasn't around) 3 or 4 times. He also told me that he has dropped the bike 3 times. I watched him ride this weekend, and pulling the bike out of the driveway and in the local soi, I do not think he had control over the bike at slow speed. Yeah, a bike is stable and easy to ride when you crank the throttle to 160km/h and are on a straight (no turns) road, but in BKK you constantly have to slow down to a snail's crawl with the traffic. I keep on playing the same 'vision' in my head over and over about how it is going to happen. He's going to be cranking the thing through the streets of Bangkok at 160km/h enjoying the thrill of speed. Anyone who has had ANY riding experience on even a scooter knows that cars don't care about motorcycles and are always pulling in front of you. He doesn't know this on an instinctual level yet. A car is going to pull out from an intersection, or someone is going to change lanes in front of him, or traffic is going to slow down and what he's going to do is panic and slam on both the rears and the fronts, and he will go down, and the speeding car behind him is going to run over him or he'll go head first into those two foot high curbs. The movie is playing over and over in my head and it worries me.

[Zzinged]

Your concerns are understandable. I have no idea what to suggest that doesn't involve tricking the guy lol. He doesn't listen to any reason at all huh?

[BigBikeBKK]

He's going to be cranking the thing through the streets of Bangkok at 160km/h enjoying the thrill of speed. Anyone who has had ANY riding experience on even a scooter knows that cars don't care about motorcycles and are always pulling in front of you. He doesn't know this on an instinctual level yet. A car is going to pull out from an intersection, or someone is going to change lanes in front of him, or traffic is going to slow down and what he's going to do is panic and slam on both the rears and the fronts, and he will go down, and the speeding car behind him is going to run over him or he'll go head first into those two foot high curbs. The movie is playing over and over in my head and it worries me.

Man- I came across a GRUESOME accident just yesterday that happened EXACTLY as you described above. Idiot Thai kid in a t shirt on a tricked out Click was hauling ass through traffic, sure enough a car pulled out and he T-boned it HARD. His bike was a pancake. He hit the car so hard that he knocked off the front right fender. Of course he went over the hood and there was so much blood and gore that I couldn't guess which part of him hit the pavement first. No helmet in sight but I did see a flip flop lying in the street... They were just about to scoop up his body when I passed. What a waste...

I feel for you, because as we all know, at that age we all felt invincible. (and many of us have the road rash to prove it!)

[GarryP]

Get him on the AP Honda bike skills course. I think it runs just about every weekend. I have heard some good things about it.

[Pikey]

One idea that's not been mentioned - show him this thread (or print it and get it translated).

It will show him a) your concern for his wellbeing and real life examples of sh*t happening, esp to inexperienced riders. May just be enough to jerk him into reality without enduring a hospital stay!!!

Cheers & good luck,

Pikey.

[Bangyai]

Just go and snip the chain.

Yes...you could borrow the bike for a ride then take it home and take the chain off and tell him it broke and that you'll be getting a new one soon but as its expensive for a quality one he'll have to wait a while.

[Zzinged]

Just go and snip the chain.

Yes...you could borrow the bike for a ride then take it home and take the chain off and tell him it broke and that you'll be getting a new one soon but as its expensive for a quality one he'll have to wait a while.

Yea but you can't keep tricking him forever. Sooner or later he's gonna have to either a.) grow up and get the riding skills he needs to survive or b.) get rid of the bike

or c.) smash up the bike.

A and B are the preferable options of course

I still think the idea of letting him learn to ride on a go-kart track is still good, since he has the safety of knowing that cars aren't going to run him over, and cops aren't going to catch him. All under the experienced eye of an instructor.

[BSJ]

You want more tricks?

Put an aluminum foil disk in the fuel valve, prick a hole with a biro. Will start and run at suburban speeds but will not go hard. You stop have a look at everything, jump back on, the fuel bowls are full again starts runs revs but.....

Put a heat coil type resistor in the power lead to the coil. Starts and runs but won't perform for long.

Washers in the exhaust headers, actually in the opening in the head. It's like hard to figure it out!

If you want an annoying noise a ball bearing in the fuel tank. The victim usually figures that one out quick!

Rewire the horn so it comes on when they are in neutral.

Anyone else got any?

[Cuban]

However, to get any benefit out of it, you have to have some BASIC LEVEL of riding skill.

I'm not a biker - but wandered in here as the title was of interest. I consider it a common thread finding it difficult to tell a teenager/young adult that they are more likely to kill themselves/others and think they will respond - 'Oh yes - you are right - I should do what you say...' is most unlikely to happen.

As family and parents you have a duty to at least try to prevent self-destructive behavior. If the person in question had a coke habit you would take action to help them.

I've seen young male hot-heads go out and thrash a track car, under supervision, to get the best lap time. Then be shown by a lady driver technique to rip the young lad's attempt to ribbons - the face changes - 'oh maybe there is something to be learnt'.

Not going to happen overnight. Might not happen in time. But you and the relations should have peace of mind that you tried. If he sees dispair in your faces when he does road race - that might have more impact?

If he was given 35k without question - I will assume that he has been spoilt in he's upbringing - sorry if I'm wrong on this point - but if he is used to getting his way, changing this habit will not be so easy.

If it's insured - could it be stolen or otherwise written off?

[Lickey]

10 years ago i helped my 18 year old son buy a 750 ZXR Kawasaki, he had various smaller bikes before but the handling was crap and was crashing a lot,

Hes the type the push to the limit every time he could, But i made sure he had all good gear, Dainese leathers with kevlar padding,back protector, Rossi Rep helmet and reinforced gloves, and knee sliders,

Ok all this isnt going to help in a heavy impact, but it should look after all his "corners" elbows knees hands and back in the event of a hi-speed slide off.

At 20 years old i was confident enough to let him use my ZZR1100 for camping/race weekends UK and Europe, because it had a full Givi lugage system,

Result, No problems, why? I trusted him and he always wears the right gear, now he rides my 1100 full time.

Its all a matter of trust and encouragement, I would think that by trying to take the bike off him will make him all the more dertimed to ride fast thinking it might be his last time on his bike.

As for the family sitting round the table with head in hands? what good will that do? sabotage the bike, yeah right, he could call the BIB.

Some things i used to say to my son before a trip, Mike, please be careful, i want you to come back on your bike, not in a box!! and if you want to do wheelies,rolling burnouts do-nuts one handed stoppies, for christ sake practice in a hospital car-park!!

Even if you took his bike away, he would ride a mates bike that could be a heap of crap, just make sure everything is working right on his bike and get him suited and booted for the job, that way you have done your best and wont loose your cousins repsect, in fact, you will have gained some from him.

Cheers. Lickey.

[Farside]

Tell him that even if he was a very experianced rider then it would not stop him from having a accident if it was due to another incompetant road user, I have ridden bikes since i was 5-6 years old, I started on 50cc motocross then as i got older i increased the cc, 50cc right up to 500cc. Then when i got to 17 i started using onroad bikes, I'm now 29 and a very experianced rider but even this didn't stop this:

I was on a Fireblade 929 and a 3 Thai girls on one scooter jumped a red light and drove right in front of me from the left hand side, I did the best i could but i only had a split second to react before i hit them.

To add insult to injury i had to pay for the girls bike and hospital fees as well as my own rented bike damage costs, I even had witnesses who saw the accident and told the police what the girls did..... But it seems Pattaya police are well and truly corrupt

The moral of the story is tell your cousin that the way he is going he'll 100% have a serious accident sooner or later, I have had my experiance with broken bones so have learned the hard way when i was younger but he obviously hasn't as he has no experiance at all, You need to let him know that as he's going straight onto the road with no experiance he's not only putting hiumself in harms way but he is also putting other road users in harms way too.

Just get someone to teach him how to ride his own bike properly, If he refuses that then take the bike off him if the bike is not in his name, Simple. He can always go out and buy another one if he has the money but i doubt he does from what you've said, Or he could use a mates bike in which case just wash your hands of it, There's nothing you can do other then give your nephews mate a good talking to, Or get the parents to do it.

[submaniac]

Lickey, I commend you on how you taught your son to ride. This is the way I would teach my son or daughter to ride. I really would not have a problem with him having his bike if he knew how to ride, or was willing to learn how to ride properly. Like I said, I have an NSR which is the perfect beginners bike to learn on; lightweight, easy to handle, very nimble. A small 150cc bike like this actually is what beginning riders have to learn on in countries with restrictive gradual motorcycle licenses. But despite the fact that it is available to him, parked at his house, he doesn't want to ride it. I have offered to ride with him to critique him, but he is not that interested. He just wants to jump on the big bike and act crazy on it. I mean with your son, if he had not ridden before and mastered the smaller bikes, I KNOW you would not given him the keys to your ZZR. You taught your son, and observed him, and knew his skill level was up to par before giving him the ZZR. It's the same with me (except I do not control him). I observed him and do not think he should touch the FZR yet and I don't want him to touch it unless he can show me that he can handle the much easier 150cc. Everytime I have seen him on the FZR he is doing something that worries me, and makes me cringe, and makes me think that there is an accident in his future, 100%.

In one month, he has gotten into three motorcycle accidents. He also got into a car accident this past month by driving too fast and running into the back of a fortuner. I mean he just isn't a real good car driver, and I think he is going to be a lousy motorcycle rider.

And Farside, I am sorry to hear about your accident. But on the bright side, if you can walk away (or limp) from it, that is all that is important.

[Lilyjade]

Show some videos of Thailand bike accidents like this one:

I used to love riding big bikes.

I always have a big bike.

Now I have not driven my bike in 6months.

I always take the car.

It is not worth the risking your life in thailand to go on a bike.

Unless you think your life is worthless.

Even when you are stationary on the bike you are risking to get

run over by some idiot speeding or some drunk driver.

Tell him his riding really sucks, that

he is a really bad driver.

(watch out for him going into defensive mode

when criticized, and he might put the brain in lockdown mode)

Tell him you think he will die soon.

Make sure he understand it is his choice if he wants

to die or kill someone else, nothing you can do to stop him.

Tell him he can at least help his relatives, since they will be very sad

when he dies.

That you are going to buy a lifeinsurance with a pretty big payout

the funds will go to you and his parents.

Ask him to sign some the papers fast since he can die any time he goes on that

bike.

Tell him to say goodbye and that he loves them to his parents.

Tell him his brain is not fully developed yet, that he can not

understand or calculate risks yet, a 19y old brain is not even

emotionally developed(they cant fully understand or read other

peoples emotions yet).

He feels no fear it is a natural thing, his brain can not comprehend it yet.

Tell him he probably cant comprehend any of this but he will understand in about

5years.

Just make sure he understands that

he will probably die and need to sign some papers.

[LivinLOS]

Sell it to James..

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bike-Get-t215387.html

[wrathfultalon]

You want more tricks?

Put an aluminum foil disk in the fuel valve, prick a hole with a biro. Will start and run at suburban speeds but will not go hard. You stop have a look at everything, jump back on, the fuel bowls are full again starts runs revs but.....

Put a heat coil type resistor in the power lead to the coil. Starts and runs but won't perform for long.

Washers in the exhaust headers, actually in the opening in the head. It's like hard to figure it out!

If you want an annoying noise a ball bearing in the fuel tank. The victim usually figures that one out quick!

Rewire the horn so it comes on when they are in neutral.

Sugar in the fuel and drain the engine oil. It will either die or lockup his next little trip around the block being an ass.

I had a family friend who was young and dumb who had a turbo eclipse i fixed for him. while he was around me he was cool, but the minute he was a serious menace on the street. I found this out when i bought a SRT4 and was passing though town, he chased me down, nearly rear ended me when i got to a red light. then he pulled around and started honking and yelling he wanted to race.. Here i am sitting there stunned. When he saw it was me he went white, since i know his mom and dad.

I stopped working on his car after that.

[johnefallis]

Some things i used to say to my son before a trip, Mike, please be careful, i want you to come back on your bike, not in a box!! and if you want to do wheelies,rolling burnouts do-nuts one handed stoppies, for christ sake practice in a hospital car-park!!

Thanks for that, I'll likely be using it for my son in years to come.

[Netfan]

"In one month, he has gotten into three motorcycle accidents. He also got into a car accident this past month by driving too fast and running into the back of a fortuner. I mean he just isn't a real good car driver, and I think he is going to be a lousy motorcycle rider."

Sorry, but this kid should not be driving anything. He's gonna kill / maim himself and probably someone else. I just hope it aint me.

Zzinged had the best idea- a teacher. The guy at Seacon is good- your cousin will watch this guy go around the track and want to do what he's doing, then get told he's got to learn how to do it - basics first.