Suvarnabhumi Visa Exempt - Change of Tactic Applied

[dave111223]

I sent a shipment of T-Shirts (plain green local manufacturer) to a customer in the US via Fedex. The package got reject by US customs and is now on it's way back to Thailand, supposedly for being "copy". But no one has given me the answer to "a copy of what"? Which is totally ridiculous because these are just plain green T-shirts, with no logos or brand, completely not a copy of anything.

We used a shipping agency who works with Fedex and takes care of all the paperwork, packaging etc... but he is claiming "mai roo" and certainly not offering to give us our money back.

Fedex now wants to charge me for the return shipping and import tax for the returned package. On top of that seeing as the package never arrived i'll have to refund the customer and cost of the shirts will come out of my pocket. Plus the original cost of shipping which they will not refund.

All in all this order will end up costing me out of pocket upwards of 60,000baht.

I would like to know is there any action i can take against Fedex or the shipping agent in order to cover these costs.

I'd just like to say NEVER USE FEDEX, normally i ship though the post office and have shipped hundreds of packages without a single problem.

This is only the 4th package i've ever shipping through Fedex and this happens.

Edited September 23, 2008 by dave111223

[thaihome]

The only one worse the FEDEX is UPS. They don't even try to deal with customs at the receiving end. Not exactly unexpected, they are in the courier business and don't pretend to be agents looking out for you.

Curious as to why you used an agent for a FEDEX shipment? Was the waybill too hard for you to fill out yourself? What does your contract say with the agent? That will explain his liabilities and your recourse.

TH

[dave111223]

The only one worse the FEDEX is UPS. They don't even try to deal with customs at the receiving end. Not exactly unexpected, they are in the courier business and don't pretend to be agents looking out for you.

Curious as to why you used an agent for a FEDEX shipment? Was the waybill too hard for you to fill out yourself? What does your contract say with the agent? That will explain his liabilities and your recourse.

TH

I'd agree that UPS as just as bad (but they charge more which probably does qualify them as worse).

We use the agent for a couple of reason:

- For some reason he is able to get better prices than shipping directly with Fedex

- Sometimes more paperwork is required than just the waybill, Certificate of Origin, customs papers (other paper stuff)

We don't have any contract with the agent, just package receipts etc..

[Florin]

I don't see how FedEx is at all responsible for this...it sounds like a screwup on your agent's part or over the top anal retentiveness at US Customs.

Either way, FedEx are only asking you to pay for the services they've rendered. Also, the fact that you have to pay import tax here for having them sent back would seem to indicate that they've raised some flags somewhere...maybe your agent can get good rates because of a connection that he has/had, but which has now turned sour?

Seems to me like the agent should be able to provide more than just "Mai roo" as an explanation...

I've sent/received tons of packages through FedEx, never had a problem, but then again, I also never used an agent...

[dave111223]

I don't see how FedEx is at all responsible for this...it sounds like a screwup on your agent's part or over the top anal retentiveness at US Customs.

Either way, FedEx are only asking you to pay for the services they've rendered. Also, the fact that you have to pay import tax here for having them sent back would seem to indicate that they've raised some flags somewhere...maybe your agent can get good rates because of a connection that he has/had, but which has now turned sour?

Seems to me like the agent should be able to provide more than just "Mai roo" as an explanation...

I've sent/received tons of packages through FedEx, never had a problem, but then again, I also never used an agent...

I paid Fedex to delivery a package to a guy in the US (not "try and maybe, possibly, if i'm lucky deliver the package"), i fail to see how this "service has been rendered" seeing as the package is now somewhere in the Thai customs system awaiting import tax, and not at said guy's address.

Like i said the items are in no way questionable, they are plain green t-shirts. If plain t-shirts "raise some flags" i don't think there is anything that wouldn't raise a flag.

[bendix]

But your gripe can't be with Fedex. They've done nothing wrong. Your gripe should be with the US customs people. Seems to me that you really are shooting the messenger (pun intended).

[Florin]

I don't see how FedEx is at all responsible for this...it sounds like a screwup on your agent's part or over the top anal retentiveness at US Customs.

Either way, FedEx are only asking you to pay for the services they've rendered. Also, the fact that you have to pay import tax here for having them sent back would seem to indicate that they've raised some flags somewhere...maybe your agent can get good rates because of a connection that he has/had, but which has now turned sour?

Seems to me like the agent should be able to provide more than just "Mai roo" as an explanation...

I've sent/received tons of packages through FedEx, never had a problem, but then again, I also never used an agent...

I paid Fedex to delivery a package to a guy in the US (not "try and maybe, possibly, if i'm lucky deliver the package"), i fail to see how this "service has been rendered" seeing as the package is now somewhere in the Thai customs system awaiting import tax, and not at said guy's address.

Like i said the items are in no way questionable, they are plain green t-shirts. If plain t-shirts "raise some flags" i don't think there is anything that wouldn't raise a flag.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that according to their Terms & Conditions they are not liable for the workings of various countries' customs departments, how could they be? Those guys change the rules practically every week and when you have a network that needs to cover hundreds of countries, there's no way you can guarantee that customs will let everything through every country.

Have you considered that your customer might have been hit with a significant import tax and simply declined to accept the delivery? A friend of mine bought 70 Euros worth of DVDs from Europe and Thai customs got him to pay another 50 Euros on delivery on top of that! He paid, but I would have probably just avoided accepting the delivery, it sucks when something ends up costing a lot more than you would have planned for...

And I'm not saying there's something wrong with your actual t-shirts, but maybe they had a problem with the quantity or something...in any case, I figure it is in no way in FedEx's best interest to go through a whole thing with customers and have to return their stuff rather than just deliver them.

[dave111223]

I don't see how FedEx is at all responsible for this...it sounds like a screwup on your agent's part or over the top anal retentiveness at US Customs.

Either way, FedEx are only asking you to pay for the services they've rendered. Also, the fact that you have to pay import tax here for having them sent back would seem to indicate that they've raised some flags somewhere...maybe your agent can get good rates because of a connection that he has/had, but which has now turned sour?

Seems to me like the agent should be able to provide more than just "Mai roo" as an explanation...

I've sent/received tons of packages through FedEx, never had a problem, but then again, I also never used an agent...

I paid Fedex to delivery a package to a guy in the US (not "try and maybe, possibly, if i'm lucky deliver the package"), i fail to see how this "service has been rendered" seeing as the package is now somewhere in the Thai customs system awaiting import tax, and not at said guy's address.

Like i said the items are in no way questionable, they are plain green t-shirts. If plain t-shirts "raise some flags" i don't think there is anything that wouldn't raise a flag.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that according to their Terms & Conditions they are not liable for the workings of various countries' customs departments, how could they be? Those guys change the rules practically every week and when you have a network that needs to cover hundreds of countries, there's no way you can guarantee that customs will let everything through every country.

Have you considered that your customer might have been hit with a significant import tax and simply declined to accept the delivery? A friend of mine bought 70 Euros worth of DVDs from Europe and Thai customs got him to pay another 50 Euros on delivery on top of that! He paid, but I would have probably just avoided accepting the delivery, it sucks when something ends up costing a lot more than you would have planned for...

And I'm not saying there's something wrong with your actual t-shirts, but maybe they had a problem with the quantity or something...in any case, I figure it is in no way in FedEx's best interest to go through a whole thing with customers and have to return their stuff rather than just deliver them.

I'm not asking them to understand the customs system of hundreds of countries, but is it so much to ask for them to understand the customs of their own country (the USA).

Fedex called the customer and gave them 2 choices:

1) Destroy the package

2) Have the package shipped back

Which is when the customer first alerted us to the problem with the package, Fedex never even contacted us or the shipping agent. In fact for the first 2 days after the package was showing as being shipped back on their website, Fedex were denying that there was even a problem with the shipment.

We have shipped orders to this customer a few times, and customer is well aware about paying import tax when they receive the items, and did not reject the order.

Since the package has been on it's way back to Thailand Fedex have told us the following (during all these it's clearly shown on their website that the package is rejected and on it's way back):

1) No problem with the package

2) Don't think there's a problem, maybe it's just taking a while

3) Problem with the package, customs must just need some more paperwork

4) Actually the package is already rejected and on it's way back, don't know why

5) We think it's because it was missing some paperwork

6) We think the products are counterfeit.

7) Products are counterfeit, but we don't know of what....

They have now been trying to figure out what our shirts are supposed to be copies of for a couple of days, which i guarantee they cannot find anything, so it's going to be amusing to see what the next statement is.

[jts-khorat]

I don't see how FedEx is at all responsible for this...it sounds like a screwup on your agent's part or over the top anal retentiveness at US Customs.

Either way, FedEx are only asking you to pay for the services they've rendered. Also, the fact that you have to pay import tax here for having them sent back would seem to indicate that they've raised some flags somewhere...maybe your agent can get good rates because of a connection that he has/had, but which has now turned sour?

Seems to me like the agent should be able to provide more than just "Mai roo" as an explanation...

I've sent/received tons of packages through FedEx, never had a problem, but then again, I also never used an agent...

I paid Fedex to delivery a package to a guy in the US (not "try and maybe, possibly, if i'm lucky deliver the package"), i fail to see how this "service has been rendered" seeing as the package is now somewhere in the Thai customs system awaiting import tax, and not at said guy's address.

Like i said the items are in no way questionable, they are plain green t-shirts. If plain t-shirts "raise some flags" i don't think there is anything that wouldn't raise a flag.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that according to their Terms & Conditions they are not liable for the workings of various countries' customs departments, how could they be? Those guys change the rules practically every week and when you have a network that needs to cover hundreds of countries, there's no way you can guarantee that customs will let everything through every country.

Have you considered that your customer might have been hit with a significant import tax and simply declined to accept the delivery? A friend of mine bought 70 Euros worth of DVDs from Europe and Thai customs got him to pay another 50 Euros on delivery on top of that! He paid, but I would have probably just avoided accepting the delivery, it sucks when something ends up costing a lot more than you would have planned for...

And I'm not saying there's something wrong with your actual t-shirts, but maybe they had a problem with the quantity or something...in any case, I figure it is in no way in FedEx's best interest to go through a whole thing with customers and have to return their stuff rather than just deliver them.

I'm not asking them to understand the customs system of hundreds of countries, but is it so much to ask for them to understand the customs of their own country (the USA).

Fedex called the customer and gave them 2 choices:

1) Destroy the package

2) Have the package shipped back

Which is when the customer first alerted us to the problem with the package, Fedex never even contacted us or the shipping agent. In fact for the first 2 days after the package was showing as being shipped back on their website, Fedex were denying that there was even a problem with the shipment.

We have shipped orders to this customer a few times, and customer is well aware about paying import tax when they receive the items, and did not reject the order.

Since the package has been on it's way back to Thailand Fedex have told us the following (during all these it's clearly shown on their website that the package is rejected and on it's way back):

1) No problem with the package

2) Don't think there's a problem, maybe it's just taking a while

3) Problem with the package, customs must just need some more paperwork

4) Actually the package is already rejected and on it's way back, don't know why

5) We think it's because it was missing some paperwork

6) We think the products are counterfeit.

7) Products are counterfeit, but we don't know of what....

They have now been trying to figure out what our shirts are supposed to be copies of for a couple of days, which i guarantee they cannot find anything, so it's going to be amusing to see what the next statement is.

I am assuming you only get your merchandise back if you pay Fedex, but as you stated that you are already out of pocket for them maybe simply time to write them down as loss and let FedEx hang with them. There will be either lots of Thai Fedex-Employees or Thai customs officers walking around with green shirts on in the near future.

[imaneggspurt]

im sure in almost and other "normal " country there would be no import taxes for goods returning to country of origin, however i have had the same, i sent a wrong order out to the uk and it was returned, i had to pay import taxes,.unfortunatly for you this is where thailand is awful to deal with,. you wil just get blank stares and uncomprehensible answers, .as for them saying they were copy its most odd,.but again you will wear yourself down before you get any sensible answers, id say just forget it and move on, use usps ( ems ).also id say its unlikely a copy problem as its unheard of to have copies returned, they are normally conviscated,.

Edited September 23, 2008 by imaneggspurt

[dave111223]

I am assuming you only get your merchandise back if you pay Fedex, but as you stated that you are already out of pocket for them maybe simply time to write them down as loss and let FedEx hang with them. There will be either lots of Thai Fedex-Employees or Thai customs officers walking around with green shirts on in the near future.

Yes i only get the box back if pay both the import tax and return shipping, so i'd be out of pocket for:

- Import Tax

- Initial shipping cost

- Return shipping cost

- Cost of products (seeing as customer no long needs them and deadline is passed)

So if i comes to that i will probably be better to just have them "destroy" the shirts, and just eat the cost of shipping and products. As the import tax + return shipping it more than the value of the products anyways.

I would be pretty pissed if i see the shirts for sale at a local market or something (which is no doubt where the "destroyed" stuff goes).

.as for them saying they were copy its most odd,.but again you will wear yourself down before you get any sensible answers, id say just forget it and move on, use usps ( ems ).also id say its unlikely a copy problem as its unheard of to have copies returned, they are normally conviscated,.

I agree, i think the counterfeit story is just the latest round of bullsh*t. If I was trying to sell counterfeit stuff internationally shouldn't the stuff be long gone and me getting a visit from the authorities?

[JimmyTheMook]

I have only had problems with FedEX and UPS out of Thailand regarding bogus copyright issues and either company could give two farts about assisting me

Now I use EMS and it seems a lot less trouble free.