New Thai Prime Minister Faces Investigation Bangkok, Sept 29

[GungaDin]

New Thai Prime Minister Faces Investigation

BANGKOK, Sept 29 (Bernama) -- New Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat is facing accusations of violating the constitution by owning shares in a company that holds a concession from a state firm, the Thailand news agency (TNA) reported Monday.

Senator Ruangkrai Leekijwatana, who toppled Somchai's predecessor, Samak Sundaravej, with a similar legal challenge, said that he would file his complaint with the Election Commission to ask an investigation.

His complaint centres on PM Somchai's ownership of shares in Thailand's CS LoxInfo PCL, an Internet service provider that is a contract partner of CAT Telecom, a state-owned telecommunications service provider.

The country's constitution bars members of Parliament from holding shares in companies that do business with state enterprises.

If found guilty, PM Somchai would be disqualified as a member of Parliament and therefore no longer be allowed to serve as prime Minister.

source: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=362003

[GungaDin]

Thai Courts Help Shape Political Landscape

By Tim Johnston

Washington Post Foreign Service

Monday, September 29, 2008; A14

BANGKOK, Sept. 28 -- The sight of 44 people, most of them current and former cabinet ministers, sitting in the dock of Thailand's Supreme Court last Friday reconfirmed for many just how large a role the legal system is now playing in the country.

The ministers represented almost the entire cabinet of populist former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was removed from power in a military coup in 2006. They have been charged with fraud for the role they played in approving a lottery in 2003.

Although the lottery case is perhaps the largest legal challenge to Thaksin's legacy, it is just one of many lawsuits reshaping Thailand's political landscape.

The last prime minister, Samak Sundaravej, who was seen by many as Thaksin's heir, was removed from office this month after the courts found him guilty of breaching the constitution by accepting a $2,300 payment to appear on a cooking show. Then, last week, an appeals court upheld a two-year sentence against Samak for libel.

In 2007, a court dissolved Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party and banned its officeholders from holding political positions after some of its senior members were found guilty of vote-buying.

Its successor, the People Power Party, which forms the current government, is widely expected to suffer the same fate when the Supreme Court hands down a decision on similar charges in a few months.

Thaksin faces more than 25 charges, and his wife has been sentenced to three years in prison for tax evasion. They have both fled to Britain. He has said he will not return to face the courts because he believes the charges are politically motivated.

Some say the new cases show that the courts are no longer afraid to challenge influential politicians. Others, particularly Thaksin's supporters, say those charged are being unduly punished for crimes that are widespread here.

Many say the courts' frequent and enthusiastic interventions have reduced the incentive for politicians to work out their differences.

The International Crisis Group, a Belgium-based research organization, recently said the constitution drafted by the military government that removed Thaksin gave the courts "too much power to thwart and undermine an elected government for relatively minor failings."

"A balance needs to be struck between necessary checks on executive power and giving the government enough authority to avoid total paralysis," the group said.

But opponents of the current government want the role of the courts to be expanded. The People's Alliance for Democracy, whose members say representative democracy has failed in Thailand, this weekend called for an expansion of the court's powers.

They want the law changed so that any member of the public can bring corruption charges against officeholders, and they want the statute of limitations lifted for corruption charges.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2802621_pf.html

[LaoPo]

The International Crisis Group, a Belgium-based research organization, recently said the constitution drafted by the military government that removed Thaksin gave the courts "too much power to thwart and undermine an elected government for relatively minor failings."

"A balance needs to be struck between necessary checks on executive power and giving the government enough authority to avoid total paralysis," the group said.

But opponents of the current government want the role of the courts to be expanded. The People's Alliance for Democracy, whose members say representative democracy has failed in Thailand, this weekend called for an expansion of the court's powers.

They want the law changed so that any member of the public can bring corruption charges against officeholders, and they want the statute of limitations lifted for corruption charges.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2802621_pf.html

It's not funny. A lot of people forgot already how much power some 'streams' in Thai society got when the coup leaders changed the constitution. I remember that most Thai had no clue what the changes were all about....

The changes were pushed thru the throats of the people.

Time will tell.

LaoPo

[GungaDin]

I was laughing at the words "relatively minor failings"

They are all corrupt. Dig down on any of those with "relatively minor failings"

& you will find major failings.

At least the judiciary seem to have some teeth now!

Go judge!

[prefabs]

New Thai Prime Minister Faces Investigation

BANGKOK, Sept 29 (Bernama) -- New Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat is facing accusations of violating the constitution by owning shares in a company that holds a concession from a state firm, the Thailand news agency (TNA) reported Monday.

Senator Ruangkrai Leekijwatana, who toppled Somchai's predecessor, Samak Sundaravej, with a similar legal challenge, said that he would file his complaint with the Election Commission to ask an investigation.

His complaint centres on PM Somchai's ownership of shares in Thailand's CS LoxInfo PCL, an Internet service provider that is a contract partner of CAT Telecom, a state-owned telecommunications service provider.

The country's constitution bars members of Parliament from holding shares in companies that do business with state enterprises.

If found guilty, PM Somchai would be disqualified as a member of Parliament and therefore no longer be allowed to serve as prime Minister.

source: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=362003

Here we go again

[Howsitgoin]

I was laughing at the words "relatively minor failings"

They are all corrupt. Dig down on any of those with "relatively minor failings"

& you will find major failings.

At least the judiciary seem to have some teeth now!

Go judge!

Yes, so many teeth that they drive the country into paralyzes and chaos.

Yet i miss those teeth totally when it comes down to the PAD - serious warrants, yet not enforced.

This may fulfill the thoughts of hatred and revenge of some here, but as most impartial and independent observers have noted - this does neither serve the country nor its people. 3 years of ongoing political chaos is more damaging than Thaksin/TRT/PPP ever was.

The government has to be allowed to work. We have no other government.

[Plus]

Thai politicians don't go into politics to lead the country and serve the people, hence constant run-ins with the laws. Minor, major, who cares - if they did what they are supposed to do instead of filling their pockets with the money we wouldn't have the current situation with 90% of cabinet in court for various degrees of corruption.

Noe would we have PAD going to great lengths to put brakes on this whole sale stealing.

This morally bancrupt and hopelessly corrupt government doesn't belong to the government house anyway.

[OlRedEyes]

At least the judiciary seem to have some teeth now!

Go judge!

[/b]

Was sure there'd be a few 'at last the courts are doing their job' type views.

Agreed. Who wouldn't agree if the courts CONSISTENTLY and INDEPENDENTLY applied the law.

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure that if and when the 'opposition' comes to power, the scrutiny may not be, shall we say, so very enthusiastic.

We have seen only one side of the story so far, and in at least one case it looked suspiciously biased to me. Make that obviously.

'Things' don't change so easily in Thailand. The culture is to keep things the same, not change.

[Howsitgoin]

Noe would we have PAD going to great lengths to put brakes on this whole sale stealing.

This morally bancrupt and hopelessly corrupt government doesn't belong to the government house anyway.

Great. We only have no idea yet what the PAD wants as an alternative system, or government. They call it "New Politics" for months, but that's all we know.

Many people would like to see the Democrats govern the country. But as long as they cannot develop and communicate policies for the rural areas of the North and the Northeast, they have no chance whatsoever to win an election.

Some would like to get rid of one man-one vote democracy and replace with a a system that hasn't even be defined yet. Not exactly realistic, and this will meet strongest resistance by voters, including by many TRT/PPP opponents, contributing to the chaos.

It is easy to cry foul, rant and rave when one proposes no feasible alternative. But that is not exactly constructive. As bad as this government is, i fear there is presently no better alternative available, and we have to do with what we have. Revolutions such as PAD intends rarely brought a better system, and mostly only brought much worse.

What then is your alternative? Can you outline your ideas of an alternative government, but within the realms of reality, please?

[Plus]

It's not like the government side is not trying to nail the opposition for one thing or another. They have probably filed more lawsuits than the opposition, most of them are defamation crap, can't find any real dirt.

[animatic]

Thai politicians don't go into politics to lead the country and serve the people, hence constant run-ins with the laws. Minor, major, who cares - if they did what they are supposed to do instead of filling their pockets with the money we wouldn't have the current situation with 90% of cabinet in court for various degrees of corruption.

Noe would we have PAD going to great lengths to put brakes on this whole sale stealing.

This morally bancrupt and hopelessly corrupt government doesn't belong to the government house anyway.

Ditto.

The only way to keep them half honest is to make them see

it means jail if the don't get the point.

[Howsitgoin]

It's not like the government side is not trying to nail the opposition for one thing or another. They have probably filed more lawsuits than the opposition, most of them are defamation crap, can't find any real dirt.

After the opposition Democrats have been off the main gravy train for the last 7 odd years, it is only natural that they could not accumulate the dirt the parties in the government had the opportunity to.

The question though now is (or should be) beyond what dirt one or the other side has accumulated, because we here have a serious problem in having had no properly functioning government for 3 years (and that includes the Surayudh government).

Has anybody an idea how to get a functioning government? Or are we only about raving and ranting?

[Plus]

I've posted quite a lot of ideas on "new politics", it can work, imo, but realistically, the politicians won't allow it to happen.

24 rectors proposal for political reform is all nice, exactly what I've been waiting for, but PAD is also correct about letting the government manage the process. It would only buy some time, nothing else. There is a precedent with Anand's commission on the South.

Easier to implement ideas are about proportional government and decentralisation, but decentralising is not too easy, either.

Basically, Thais should sit down and clearly define the roles of the government, the parliament, and the senate, and be brutally honest about it.

There are some serious problems hardwired in the current system. Government appointment is a really big one, local MPs, supposedly representing their geographical constituencies, are forced to vote along national party lines on national problems that have absolutely nothing to do with geographical boundaries. And political parties that are least democratic institutions of all, completely obscure nests of nepotism and patronage with no accountability whatsoever.

"New politics" would solve lots of these problems at once, if they can mangage to sucessfully divide the country into "functional constituencies" and develop mechanisms to control and balance movements within these constituencies.

That would be the most difficult part, but they can start from what they have already.

Whatever the reform is, nothing will happen without a dedicated leader to push it through, and I don't see anyone carrying the burden. It was five years after 1992 to adopt a new constitution, and four more years to put it to work. Don't hold your breath for the next round of reforms yet.

[sriracha john]

Or are we only about raving and ranting?

some things never seem to change...

even in the after-life...

[Howsitgoin]

"New politics" would solve lots of these problems at once, if they can mangage to sucessfully divide the country into "functional constituencies" and develop mechanisms to control and balance movements within these constituencies.

Only we have no definition of what "New Politics" might be.

But you see the problem - there are many problems with the present situation, more connected though to the social set up than the political system itself, and almost every proposed solution is not going to work.

I am afraid there is no quick fix, and instead of tearing everything down as the more extreme members of PAD propose, we have no other choice than living with what we have, admittedly bad. Simply because the realistic alternatives are even worse.

Or would you like stone age communists like Somsak Kosaisuk and Pipop dictate their ideas on political systems?

The overlaying problem is, that not just TRT/PPP are riddled with nepotism and patronage, but every other party, and every aspect of this society - be it academics, civil servants, army or police. This won't change fast, and the revultionary idea of tearing everything down to start fresh is for me not a very appealing idea.

Bad as it is, we need this government, because there is no other governent in sight, and try to improve the system from within.

[Plus]

there are many problems with the present situation, more connected though to the social set up than the political system itself,

So quick to blame Thailand's social set up? I was expecting it but not so fast.

>>>

I'm not sure we really need this government. It has been going downhill since the elections and it's far from bottoming out, and it's certainly not going to improved from within, it doesn't even have the "within", it serves well known interests on the outside. You are the last optimist standing, no one else gives any credit to this cabinet, worse than Samak's ugly duckling and subject to infighting for Thaksin's attention.

[h90]

I was laughing at the words "relatively minor failings"

They are all corrupt. Dig down on any of those with "relatively minor failings"

& you will find major failings.

At least the judiciary seem to have some teeth now!

Go judge!

Yes, so many teeth that they drive the country into paralyzes and chaos.

Yet i miss those teeth totally when it comes down to the PAD - serious warrants, yet not enforced.

This may fulfill the thoughts of hatred and revenge of some here, but as most impartial and independent observers have noted - this does neither serve the country nor its people. 3 years of ongoing political chaos is more damaging than Thaksin/TRT/PPP ever was.

The government has to be allowed to work. We have no other government.

you may note that police and courts are not the same?

[Howsitgoin]

there are many problems with the present situation, more connected though to the social set up than the political system itself,

So quick to blame Thailand's social set up? I was expecting it but not so fast.

>>>

I'm not sure we really need this government. It has been going downhill since the elections and it's far from bottoming out, and it's certainly not going to improved from within, it doesn't even have the "within", it serves well known interests on the outside. You are the last optimist standing, no one else gives any credit to this cabinet, worse than Samak's ugly duckling and subject to infighting for Thaksin's attention.

Then we should wait for new elections and wait the outcome. The government has been weak from the beginning, factional infighting dominated the game. Why then come out, occupy government house, and declare "New Politics" when the democratic system anyhow was in the process of cleaning itself, when the courts worked in favor of the opposition?

It was only a matter of time that the government fell, and new elections had to be announced, giving the opposition a chance to campaign, and if successfully - form a government themselves. Why the chaos when the system of checks and balances started to work in their favor?

We have no other system, we need this system. That means that we have a government, and have to accept that this government can be voted out. Why create unnecessary chaos?

You comment regarding the social set up - do you believe that Thailand's social set up has nothing to do with the present crisis, and that all apart from the evil PPP politicians is working perfectly?

[Samuian]

I was laughing at the words "relatively minor failings"

They are all corrupt. Dig down on any of those with "relatively minor failings"

& you will find major failings.

At least the judiciary seem to have some teeth now!

Go judge!

Yep, could easily be a PR stunt by that "belgium whatsoever"...

when will "outsiders" accept that this is a genuine Thai-Problem which they will have to solve their way- a giant self cleaning process is on its way - otherwise the nepotism and thereof resulting corruption will bring down this country like a terminal

disease.

[Howsitgoin]

you may note that police and courts are not the same?

And you may note that police can only work when ordered so by the courts.

[Howsitgoin]

Yep, could easily be a PR stunt by that "belgium whatsoever"...

when will "outsiders" accept that this is a genuine Thai-Problem which they will have to solve their way- a giant self cleaning process is on its way - otherwise the nepotism and thereof resulting corruption will bring down this country like a terminal

disease.

That "Belgium whatsoever" is the world's most influential think tank.

As Thailand is very connected to the global economy, and a regional powerhouse, some people have to accept that this Thai home made problem has huge effects on not just foreign investors but also neighboring country's security issues.

PAD ultra-nationalist rabble rousing has already nearly resulted in a border war between Cambodia and Thailand. And according to PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul's public statements - he would be more than willing to go to war against Cambodia over the Preah Vihear issue. Read this:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=732

[Plus]

Go and read PAD's justification for "new politics" proposal, it hasn't changed since day one, and by now universally accepeted - the current system is rotten to the core, and by now there are growing calls for a serious reform, coming from all sides.

This is the third government this year, and it's not going anywhere. Even if there are new elections same old crooks will return and they will do the same thing again.

There are no politicians worthy of leading the coutnry and the government, there's a last hope that the best of the Democrats get to power and Thailand would get a respectable government, but who really believes Dems can win the elections?

Dems are there only for show - that there is hope, while in reality there's none.

Even the stunch anti coup anti pad Prawit from the Naiton admits that TRT/PPP and co have a complete lock up on the electoral process.

We've covered this before - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a sign of mental retardation.

[Howsitgoin]

Go and read PAD's justification for "new politics" proposal, it hasn't changed since day one, and by now universally accepeted - the current system is rotten to the core, and by now there are growing calls for a serious reform, coming from all sides.

Eh, yes, we know one thing that hasn't changed with that "New Politics" brainfart since day one - it has never been defined, and changes according to the inconsistent personal comments and mood swings of each PAD leader.

Or do you try to tell me that "New Politics" consists entirely of the amazing enlightenment that there is something wrong with the system, that it needs reform, and ... what?

Edited September 30, 2008 by Howsitgoin

[sriracha john]

Oh, yes, SJ, the thread title is about 30 members indictment, but

We have a brand new member here who wants to unravel all complexities of Thai politics for the past thirty years. Please give a newbie a warm welcome. We haven't talked about complexities in a long while, since last incarnation of that serial offender who signed under new name every couple of weeks just to talk about complexities.

That fellow was a real pest, like those PPP Cabinet members with several court cases hanging over them. Everytime they swear to start a new life and everytime it ends exactly the same.

and have you noticed how adept he is at not responding to yours or anyone else prompting as to his identity?

He must have gotten tired of being banned after quickly and freely admitting his identity previously. But with all posts subsequently removed, there's no history of these "complexities unraveling."

Have you gotten tired of that and that's why you won't "quickly and freely" admit your identity now, Colonel?

Edited September 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

Yep, could easily be a PR stunt by that "belgium whatsoever"...

when will "outsiders" accept that this is a genuine Thai-Problem which they will have to solve their way- a giant self cleaning process is on its way - otherwise the nepotism and thereof resulting corruption will bring down this country like a terminal

disease.

That "Belgium whatsoever" is the world's most influential think tank.

And who says that or who recommends this "think-tank and who guarantees that the published results are not biased, not meddled with...?

Who?

The Prachathai Press?

And who can make the voice and demand of the "people on the streets" invalid?

Why not listen to them and genuinely look for a real solution, that satisfies all of them or most?

Why they are labeled "nationalists", "fascists"... why?

Why are more and more people backing the demands for CHANGE?

Who is going to lose out if they proceed and win?

IF you/one can answer that question in honest - has the answer on who is who and not simple biased rhetoric.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Samuian

[sriracha john]

Yep, could easily be a PR stunt by that "belgium whatsoever"...

when will "outsiders" accept that this is a genuine Thai-Problem which they will have to solve their way- a giant self cleaning process is on its way - otherwise the nepotism and thereof resulting corruption will bring down this country like a terminal

disease.

That "Belgium whatsoever" is the world's most influential think tank.

And who says that or who recommends this "think-tank and who guarantees that the published results are not biased, not meddled with...?

Who?

The Prachathai Press?

And who can make the voice and demand of the "people on the streets" invalid?

Why not listen to them and genuinely look for a real solution, that satisfies all of them or most?

Why they are labeled "nationalists", "fascists"... why?

Why are more and more people backing the demands for CHANGE?

Who is going to lose out if they proceed and win?

IF you/one can answer that question in honest - has the answer on who is who and not simple biased rhetoric.

You expect a 20-times-banned member to answer honestly?

[Howsitgoin]

And who says that or who recoomends this "thnk-tank and who guaranteesthat the published results are not biased, not meddled with...?

Who?

The Prachathai Press?

I would suggest to visit the website of International Crises Group, read who sits on its board, who writes the reports, and how they are written. And learn why it was last year voted as the world's most influential think tank.

And who can make the voice and demand of the "people on the streets invalid"?

Why not listen to them?

Why they are labeled "nationalists", "fascists"... why?

PAD is labeled 'ultra-nationalist' and 'fascist' because of the open undemocratic agenda, because of their militaristic views over issues such as the Preah Vihaer issue, and the ultra-nationalism expressed in their sings and speeches.

People on the streets? People on the streets do not just contain yellow shirted PAD members, but people of a large variety of views and opinions, including the many people who did in fact vote for this government. Democracy won't promise you a "good" government, but it gives the parameters that opposing views can be heard and are allowed to have a modus operandi of settling their differences, via elections and the parliament.

Why are more and more people backing the demands for CHANGE?

Who is going to lose out if they proceed and win?

Everybody that does not agree with their ultra-nationalist agenda. The country and the people have already lost.

IF you/one can answer that question in honest - has the answer on who is who and not simple biased rhetoric.

Biased rethoric?

My friend - i do believe that i am not very biased compared to your extremely onesided PAD propaganda posts. I have many times posted that the government is not what i would call a good government, that it is filled with crooks and worse. But what is the alternative? Please only realistic ones.

Can you actually tell us what PAD wants, and what "New Politics" actually contains?

What are your views on Preah Vihaer? Do you agree with Sondhi Limthongkul's postion that it is worth going to war against Cambodia over this issue?

Or do i get the same deafening silence whenever i ask PAD supporters a uncomfortable question?

[sriracha john]

I have many times posted

yes... indeed you have... 4,662 posts under just one of your old ID's alone.

Edited September 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[scyriacus]

you may note that police and courts are not the same?

And you may note that police can only work when ordered so by the courts.

sorry, but this is nonsense. e.g. traffic control or crime prevention need no court orders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police

the courts decide and issued warrants in the above mentioned case.

so why did you scold the court? for your democratic information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers.

police & army are part of the 'executive' which is the government.

did you want to criticize this government? then you are not alone indeed.

royal thai police & army used to 'execute' merciless without court orders in their 'war against drugs'

(in 3 month 2,500 dead, 56% with no relation to drugs!) and in the 'war against terrorism'

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra#Anti-drug_policies, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tak_Bai_Incident).

but they are obviously helpless in the 'war against corruption'.

[Howsitgoin]

but they are obviously helpless in the 'war against corruption'.

What are you on about?

Quoting from "en.wikipedia.org" has very little relevance how things are done in Thailand, especially when your link on the Tak Bai incident failed to come up with any article

The drug war killings were deplorable, unfortunately though we will never see any investigation into these. The Surayudh government installed committee has made sure to close that chapter for ever, and you can't honestly expect that this government here will do much about it. I guess the drug war killings were a too hot iron also for the military installed government to touch (hint - research who said what about these killings and therefore gave legitimacy to this).

This will go to the dustbox of history like every other previous massacre in Thai history (6th October and aftermath, Vietnamese boatpeople, Black may, etc. - none ever investigated), and without doubt where future massacres will go into as well.

Tak Bai?

Nobody has shown any interest in bringing the guilty parties to court, and also not the Surayudh government. Ironically, the commanding officer received the only punishment under Thaksin's rule - a whopping transfer to a desk job.

I believe you have to start changing the parameters of your analyses - it ain't just Thaksin that is wrong with this place.