Rental Bond / Deposit

[sibeymai]

Have just moved out of an apartment after 4 years. The landlord has refused to return the bond/deposit saying that some items of furniture were damaged (not disputed) but is asking for 22,000Bt+ to replace all the curtains due to staining.

The curtains were in a poor state when I moved in but as I don't have any proof I'm not going to win that argument.

However, can the landlord legally withhold the full replacement price of the curtains ?

Since I've been there for 4 years shouldn't there be some allowance for wear and tear at least and also depreciation assuming the law provides for the landlord to depreciate the fixtures and fittings on their taxation. I shouldn't have to pay full replacement cost.

So my questions are:

what would be a fair percentage for wear and tear ?

how much could the landlord have legally depreciated the curtains on their tax in 4 years ?

am I entitled to take possession of items for which I have paid replacement cost (depreciated or full cost) ?

[jeffer]

What does it say in your lease?

[bravingbangkok]

I would say 3000/5000 should be an adequate fine/cost for a little ware and tear, This landlord is taking the piss. In this case and not knowing the full facts and the extent of the damage I do not know how good it would be to report them to the police but I would give it a try. If there is no substantial damage and only a few scratches on the walls and as you have said stained curtains I would get the land lord to write down everything that is damaged and get it fixed yourself.

Maybe you should find a Thai to help you deal with this situation.

I once moved into a place which was empty, the land lord told me the furniture would arrive the day after and that he kept it in storage wrapped up to preserve it, I paid the deposit...nothing ever came and he would not refund the deposit. I reported him to the police and I got my money back I had a Thai guy to help me do all this so I would advice you do the same.

Edited September 30, 2008 by bravingbangkok

[thesunset75]

I was so lucky with my Swedish landlord.

Since im a good tenant, so he pays back all deposit and dont even take any from all good damaged.

He never check up how the rooms is I only transfered the rental in to his account.

[roamer]

Maybe after 4 years you know enough Thai to tell the police you would be very "grateful" if they could intervene in this matter ?

Also I have no idea what your apartment was like but if the curtains were pretty gross to begin with then 22K in LOS is way over top to replace them..

[Beardog]

Sounds like it is time to paint the walls a nice flat black or primer red With a lite coat of the original color over the red oxide. Red is hel_l to repaint(takes 6-8 coats to remove & the red bleeds through almost every coat. & the owner will get to learn the lesson of theft the hard way.The chances of the landlord taking you to court are next to nil as the lawyer will cost them more than the money sought after& they want the money up front - not on a contingency basis. When we left our soi kaoh talo house 2 + years ago, the owner started being a shit. would not fix any of the dead & dilapidated Water tank sinks water leaks etc............. so we knew when we left she was going to jack us.

We purposely left her house trashed & I put in a couple of bad surprises for her that within 2 years will cost her what she stole from us in reoccurring plumbing repairs. That & horrible references to 4 people that came to look to rent. Our next landlord we broke lease & moved into the house we had built 1 kilo away. She only charged us for 1 doorknob(I broke) & gave back all the security deposit .( we used as last month of rent) I was great full & repainted 3 rooms that we hung items on & the walls got slightly discolored.I also pressure blasted the driveway & the road to make it easy for her to rent & sent 3 people for her to interview for new renters.

I would treat the owner in the same manner they have treated you. If they are fair I will go the extra yard for them . & if they are not- they can count on losing the amount paid by me on the sec.deposit. I can see if you break a lease they usually in writing can keep your deposit. But after we signed our second contract in Pattaya we were informed we were liable for all repairs <deleted>!

I believe in the golden rule & the eye for an eye. Rewards for the good & woes for the mai dee.I also after Pattaya rental debacle learned to have my girl explain to the new perspective landlord we got shafted last rental & only will offer a first & deposit. No last month as we use our security as our lasts month & fix the house damages we have incurred if the landlord is fair. One would be surprised how easy it is to negotiate first & deposit if your Thai girl is polite but firm on making the terms for the rental agreement.

[Heng]

Check around town for curtain prices... there are indeed very cheap curtains out there, but there are also plenty of crazy prices as well. (just like anything else in the fabric biz)

[tmd5855]

While I am offshore the girlfriend moved house on the 28th Sept. Farang landlord (German) married to a Thai kept 3000bt of the deposit for unspecified damage?

GF is fuming since I said she could keep all the deposit money for herself and family. She wants to go with me and see Farang??

3000bt is not worth any hassle, just curious if I offered the BIB 3000bt in expenses could they obtain 3000bt.

Realise I do not gain, but neither does the farang landlord.

Myself, Would not lose any sleep, but this is the clincher....................................

If I do nothing..........................will I lose face with my GF (together 2.5yrs). Little man in my head says I will.

Any advice would be welcomed??

Edited October 1, 2008 by tmd5855

[Gumballl]

Check around town for curtain prices... there are indeed very cheap curtains out there, but there are also plenty of crazy prices as well. (just like anything else in the fabric biz)

Then the OP would be out deposit plus the cost of the new curtains. Brilliant!

Beardog wrote the proper solution. A roomie and I had a similar situation where the landlord refused to fix leaks in the roof and provide proper extermination care to rid the apartment of roaches. Our solution was to not to pay rent during the last few months, and then to graffiti the walls. It may seem childish, but our intent was sound... we wanted to inflict monetary damage onto a bum landlord.

[soundman]

Not really an answer for the OP, but do what all our tenants usually do - never pay the last months rent which usually comes near the value of the security deposit in most cases.

[womble]

Not really an answer for the OP, but do what all our tenants usually do - never pay the last months rent which usually comes near the value of the security deposit in most cases.

Yeah it's a no brainer, heard this happen so many times, it's cos they spent the $ and can't pay you back.

[desertrat]

"Legally"..you've been here 4 years and use that word ?

[bkkjames]

Sounds like it is time to paint the walls a nice flat black or primer red With a lite coat of the original color over the red oxide. Red is hel_l to repaint(takes 6-8 coats to remove & the red bleeds through almost every coat. & the owner will get to learn the lesson of theft the hard way.The chances of the landlord taking you to court are next to nil as the lawyer will cost them more than the money sought after& they want the money up front - not on a contingency basis. When we left our soi kaoh talo house 2 + years ago, the owner started being a shit. would not fix any of the dead & dilapidated Water tank sinks water leaks etc............. so we knew when we left she was going to jack us.

We purposely left her house trashed & I put in a couple of bad surprises for her that within 2 years will cost her what she stole from us in reoccurring plumbing repairs. That & horrible references to 4 people that came to look to rent. Our next landlord we broke lease & moved into the house we had built 1 kilo away. She only charged us for 1 doorknob(I broke) & gave back all the security deposit .( we used as last month of rent) I was great full & repainted 3 rooms that we hung items on & the walls got slightly discolored.I also pressure blasted the driveway & the road to make it easy for her to rent & sent 3 people for her to interview for new renters.

I would treat the owner in the same manner they have treated you. If they are fair I will go the extra yard for them . & if they are not- they can count on losing the amount paid by me on the sec.deposit. I can see if you break a lease they usually in writing can keep your deposit. But after we signed our second contract in Pattaya we were informed we were liable for all repairs <deleted>!

I believe in the golden rule & the eye for an eye. Rewards for the good & woes for the mai dee.I also after Pattaya rental debacle learned to have my girl explain to the new perspective landlord we got shafted last rental & only will offer a first & deposit. No last month as we use our security as our lasts month & fix the house damages we have incurred if the landlord is fair. One would be surprised how easy it is to negotiate first & deposit if your Thai girl is polite but firm on making the terms for the rental agreement.

A man after my own heart.

[Heng]

Check around town for curtain prices... there are indeed very cheap curtains out there, but there are also plenty of crazy prices as well. (just like anything else in the fabric biz)

Then the OP would be out deposit plus the cost of the new curtains. Brilliant!

Thanks for the compliment, but I was referring to the cost of curtains. It's difficult to say what a reasonable price is. I wasn't suggesting that he/she replace the curtains.

I usually lease out properties bare bones and unfurnished to tenants, so there's usually no question in terms of damage or loss, and return of deposit is as near a sure thing as can be....

[dotcom]

Your landlord is a thief & taking the piss.

Get the cops & get your deposit back.

[sibeymai]

Still would like to know if it is appropriate for the landlord to reduce the amount claimed for the curtains by depreciation and fair wear and tear.

The intent of the law in giving the right tothe landlord to claim damages is to ensure the landlord does not suffer financial loss as a result of the tenants lack of care (or accident), not make a profit at the expense of the tenant (as a landlord myself I am aware of this). Therefore the amount due from the tenant is replacement cost less wear and tear less depreciation, not full replacement cost.

Anything else is profiteering which is not the intention of the law. As the landlord has already presented me with the invoices and refused to repay any of the deposit (in fact is asking me to pay more) she can not defend herself against a charge of profiteering in court.

As I have vacated the place already I can't take any sort of retribution. Also, not paying the last month's rent was not an option since the lease allowed her to remove my possessions, lock me out and cut water/electricity 7 days after non-payment.

[thaihome]

.... Also, not paying the last month's rent was not an option since the lease allowed her to remove my possessions, lock me out and cut water/electricity 7 days after non-payment.

You signed a contract with those terms and you are surprised and outraged she is keeping your deposit?

TH

[yabaaaa]

Not really an answer for the OP, but do what all our tenants usually do - never pay the last months rent which usually comes near the value of the security deposit in most cases.

If my tenants try this they will find the door locks changed until that months rent arrives and we state in our terms that at no time will the deposit be used to pay the rent.

[RakJungTorlae]

Sounds like it is time to paint the walls a nice flat black or primer red With a lite coat of the original color over the red oxide. Red is hel_l to repaint(takes 6-8 coats to remove & the red bleeds through almost every coat. & the owner will get to learn the lesson of theft the hard way.The chances of the landlord taking you to court are next to nil as the lawyer will cost them more than the money sought after& they want the money up front - not on a contingency basis. When we left our soi kaoh talo house 2 + years ago, the owner started being a shit. would not fix any of the dead & dilapidated Water tank sinks water leaks etc............. so we knew when we left she was going to jack us.

We purposely left her house trashed & I put in a couple of bad surprises for her that within 2 years will cost her what she stole from us in reoccurring plumbing repairs. That & horrible references to 4 people that came to look to rent. Our next landlord we broke lease & moved into the house we had built 1 kilo away. She only charged us for 1 doorknob(I broke) & gave back all the security deposit .( we used as last month of rent) I was great full & repainted 3 rooms that we hung items on & the walls got slightly discolored.I also pressure blasted the driveway & the road to make it easy for her to rent & sent 3 people for her to interview for new renters.

I would treat the owner in the same manner they have treated you. If they are fair I will go the extra yard for them . & if they are not- they can count on losing the amount paid by me on the sec.deposit. I can see if you break a lease they usually in writing can keep your deposit. But after we signed our second contract in Pattaya we were informed we were liable for all repairs <deleted>!

I believe in the golden rule & the eye for an eye. Rewards for the good & woes for the mai dee.I also after Pattaya rental debacle learned to have my girl explain to the new perspective landlord we got shafted last rental & only will offer a first & deposit. No last month as we use our security as our lasts month & fix the house damages we have incurred if the landlord is fair. One would be surprised how easy it is to negotiate first & deposit if your Thai girl is polite but firm on making the terms for the rental agreement.

A man after my own heart.

It’s the way to go I guess. Or tell him there’s something wrong with the toilet a kick the crap out of him while in there.~ no pun!!!

[bkkjames]

This post may be a bit jaded because I am tired from watching the football till the wee hours this morning, but my experience has been that the locals love you up until the point they realise they will not get another baht out of you.

Many independant locally-owned resorts are famous for this and I suspect so too with people who rent flats.

Now I need a beer.

[Merlin]

ok maybe I missed it but how much was the deposit?

even if it was 22K, over 4 years that's only 15b a day.

[Gravelrash]

Buy a condo and avoid the aggravation.

Did the rent have a yearly rise to account for inflation, if not you are probably still ahead? Why didn't you organize a property inspection report that you and the owner signed off on.

He is either just not giving it to you or he really does regard there as being excessive wear and tear. It is common for tenants to not pay the last month, however a sharp landlord will be onto that quickly and lock the place up.

[midas]

I encourage you to do a small amount of research to find the telephone number

( which I used to have but regrettably no longer ) of a Thai government department

who can help you with this issue. I can only remember having a potential dispute

with my landlord at the time three years ago and I mentioned I would contact this number

to ask for their intervention and suddenly everything was magically resolved.

I am not sure if it had anything to do with " loss of face " but what ever the reason

it worked. And I remember being told this " department " will help even farang

tenants.

There is no need to allow this woman to steal your money this way!

Edited October 1, 2008 by midas