Chamlong Srimuang Arrested

[cmsally]

Looking at the present situation, I think there is something rather ironic about this quote from Panlop:

Gen Sonthi asked him for help in public relations and improving the security situation in the deep South, he said. But he will tackle the political rallies in Bangkok first. Most demonstrators in rallies these days were paid to join them, Gen Panlop said. And he has secret tricks to disperse such organised groups, he said.

Bangkok Pundit - Panlop to the rescue

[Ricardo]

Absolutely disgusting that such a criminal was allowed to vote first before hauled off to prison!

Funny, I just took it as a charming example, of Thai tolerance. TiT !

You also stated that he is a criminal ... what had he been found guilty of ? I mean, being PM while thousands of innocent people are murdered byt the police, and cheering them on, that was absolutely disgusting, almost as bad was allowing DL to still keep his diplomatic passport !

[Pierrot]

Pierrot,

Huh?

Where are you getting these ideas and opinions?

To put it simple, Thailand is like a ship in the middle of the storm of the century, definitively not the right time to challenge the captain. Thailand has some serious issues to tackle right now and need a functioning government for that. Not in six month time, not even next month, right now !

There was an opportunity for the democrats to seize power when Samak was forced out of office. It didn’t work. Nobody want, actually nobody can afford new election for the time being. IMO a compromise has been reached and the present government will be allowed to govern. And has the consequence the PAD will have to clear the way. The party is over!

[larvidchr]

Lets not loose ourselves here, the arrest of the PAD leaders is the Police following a Court order, not a PPP order, the reason T is not arrested is quite obvious because he is not here and Thailand has no powers to get him extradited whatsoever. You people got to find what stance you want to take, the Courts you love and hail as the only true and just people in Thailand as long as they issue arrest warrant after arrest warrant to T and family and all he knew, or the Courts you don't trust because they issue arrest warrants against your freedom fighters crapping in front of Government house, and now is acting on PPP orders You people are loosing your own plot

And since we are speculating-

All this could be just part of the Governments strategy, since Samak left they have ignored the PAD making same increasingly frustrated because nobody any longer seemed to care about their strange antics, this has caused them to fight among themselves and ultimately make mistakes leading to 2 arrests among their leaders, the Government now calculates that either PAD do nothing and the war of exhausting them just continues, or the PAD now overreacts so much in protest that they finally loose all public legitimacy and support making it more easy for the Government to finish this of with a show of force? one far fetch theory is as good as another what!!!!

[hammered]

Pierrot,

Huh?

Where are you getting these ideas and opinions?

Why is it over for the PAD?

What makes you think Prem 'sanctioned' any deal?

What makes you think the current government is here to stay?

Though it does appear that the army did not follow Samak's orders, what makes you think the police are not doing as the current government asks?

etc etc etc

I can see several reasons for the most recent events and I have NO CLUE as to the validity of any of those thoughts.

1) This works to PAD's benefit to escalate things because since Samak's demise on the political scene things had stagnated.

2) The PPP thought that removing the bosses of the PAD from daily contact with the crowds that they would dissipate (truly silly thinking)

What a lot who support the government miss is that it is not really about the demo in GH but about the millions of sympathsiers all over the country that PAD has. How do the government bring these people back into the fold? Certainly the politcal charges like treason just work the other way. You can get away with politically intimidating opponents through charges but the charges must be criminal and not politcal in nature for this to work. Charges like treason just stir opponents up. It will be intereting to see how the courts handle this.

The other thing that a lot miss is that in a pluralistic democracy everybody including minorites need to accept the rules for the game to work. Pluralistic democracies virtually always return a government from a minority of the electorate (for example PPP gained 41% of the 70% turnout) for this to work the government once elcted has to accept that it now acts for all the people and not just those who voted for it and that they must protect minorities. In return those who voted for the losing side accepts the winning of a government elected by a minority of the electroate, and vice versa. Right now the problem is the government never accept that they represent anyone than those who voted for them and a lot of those that didnt vote for them wont accept them as the government. It is not helped by the truly horrible cabinets and utter ineptmness of the recent governments either, and of course the horribly low esteem in which politicans are held - somewhere under drug addicts, whores and thieves.

[jdinasia]

I agree with you hammered, what we had here under TRT and PPP was the tyranny of the majority. 'We won so we can do whatever we want to do, including changing the charter that the electorate voted for!"

[animatic]

The PAD is neither for democracy nor good government; the PAD right-wing ultra-nationalist elitists are for themselves, it's fairly simple, really.

This is obfuscation, it does not address the question posed to you.

Just forget about it.....You won't get any real answer from sunrise07. Many others tried to get some answers from him and failed. Most people just ignore him and let him post his nonsense.

Well, it is an interesting moral and legal question. Should a man charged with treason, a charge carrying a death sentence, be allowed to vote in an election while a group he supports illegally occupies Government House? That is a question for the Thai courts to decide.

How can Samak vote, even there are so many charges against him?

How can Thaksin has a diplomatic passport?

And don't forget that the treason charges were made from Samak who wasn't qualified to be premier and who seems to be soon in jail for many other things at court.

Well, if Samak was the only one who made charges against Chamlong, then I agree with you that he should not have been arrested and he should be set free.

No charge of treason would come anywhere but from the TOP.

And that was Samak feeling vengeful.

The original charges were MUCH smaller,

but when they were ignored he upped the ante some more.

Chamlong is not convicted of anything. He had EVERY right to vote.

And in doing so showed PAD to NOT be the anti-democratic demogogues

some here wish them to be seen as.

[animatic]

2 down 7 to go

Wishful thinking on your part and a complete lack of understanding - PAD is now like Lernaean Hydra -

battle finished in three days

i guess we get now more "action" of what the procult onlooker mob called party.

most profit of the arrest comes for the PAD cult and nobody else. it's not a PPP tactic. samak ignored the PAD mob right from the beginning. a clever don't feed the troll strategy. why talk with a bunch of irrationale haters.

why talk with your old backward minded

Is it possible any one can translate this....?

[Moonrakers]

2 down 7 to go

Wishful thinking on your part and a complete lack of understanding - PAD is now like Lernaean Hydra -

battle finished in three days

i guess we get now more "action" of what the procult onlooker mob called party.

most profit of the arrest comes for the PAD cult and nobody else. it's not a PPP tactic. samak ignored the PAD mob right from the beginning. a clever don't feed the troll strategy. why talk with a bunch of irrationale haters.

why talk with your old backward minded

Is it possible any one can translate this....?

And:

Samak ignored the PAD?? He openly stated that the police will move them, he calls a National Emergency and we have the Army on the streets and he claims that the leaders should be tried for treason, so asides from these and other things, he just ignored them.

Right.

[ratcatcher]

2 down 7 to go

Wishful thinking on your part and a complete lack of understanding - PAD is now like Lernaean Hydra -

battle finished in three days

i guess we get now more "action" of what the procult onlooker mob called party.

most profit of the arrest comes for the PAD cult and nobody else. it's not a PPP tactic. samak ignored the PAD mob right from the beginning. a clever don't feed the troll strategy. why talk with a bunch of irrationale haters.

why talk with your old backward minded

Is it possible any one can translate this....?

It would be a real challenge!

[h90]

2 down 7 to go

Wishful thinking on your part and a complete lack of understanding - PAD is now like Lernaean Hydra -

battle finished in three days

i guess we get now more "action" of what the procult onlooker mob called party.

most profit of the arrest comes for the PAD cult and nobody else. it's not a PPP tactic. samak ignored the PAD mob right from the beginning. a clever don't feed the troll strategy. why talk with a bunch of irrationale haters.

why talk with your old backward minded

Is it possible any one can translate this....?

And:

Samak ignored the PAD?? He openly stated that the police will move them, he calls a National Emergency and we have the Army on the streets and he claims that the leaders should be tried for treason, so asides from these and other things, he just ignored them.

Right.

I don't know if there was one single "Samaks Sunday talks" without mention the PAD.

[animatic]

The other thing that a lot miss is that in a pluralistic democracy

everybody including minorites need to accept the rules for the game to work.

Pluralistic democracies virtually always return a government from a minority of the electorate

(for example PPP gained 41% of the 70% turnout)

for this to work the government once elected has to accept that it now acts for all the people

and not just those who voted for it and that they must protect minorities.

In return those who voted for the losing side accepts the winning of a government elected by a minority of the electroate, and vice versa.

Right now the problem is the government never accept that they represent anyone than those who voted for them

and a lot of those that didnt vote for them wont accept them as the government.

It is not helped by the truly horrible cabinets and utter ineptmness of the recent governments either,

and of course the horribly low esteem in which politicans are held -

somewhere under drug addicts, whores and thieves.

This sums it up pretty well.

For democracy to work the group in power has to not screw those not in power.

And those not in power must accept some reasonable level of lack of control.

When that lack of control sinks below a intolerance level

they react negatively by whatever channels that can.

Different societies have had different channels of varying effectiveness.

PAD has been one of those channels. And has had some effectiveness

ion a rather Thai way. Nothing western about it, except use of media.

Various army factions in the past have ALSO been those grievance channels.

The esteem that politicians are larded with is of their OWN making.

When they ignore the legitimate grievances of the other parts of society,

they have ONLY themselves to blame when the people rise up in protest.

It's like Pandora's Box, or genies from bottles.

Damned hard to get them back inside once released.

Thaksin let a BIG ass genie out and about,

and can't get the stopper stuck on with spirit inside.

[animatic]

IMO it's a clear case of good cop / bad cop game.

It's over for the PAD. Now do they chose an exit through negotiation with the "nice" Chavalit, maybe with some form of amnesty as sweetener, or do they prefer to face police arrest and all the nasty things that may follow?

Why nonsense?

As I perceive the event, police said they had to follow orders and this is quite right, how could they let Chamlong vote and walk away all in Public - NO WAY!

The Police force was forced to - as the media reports Chamlong did himself in - He doesn't need to hide in London somewhere!

Let's not miss judge the tactics!

Now some people are forced to make a move - there is a highly prominent fugitive on the run out there, with 5 issued arrest warrants, still holding a diplomatic passport!

Besides Somchai just had an audience with Prem and Prem was all smiles after all, wasn't he?

Somchai has massive problems, his daughter and wife, so has the PPP!

It will be a very interesting scenario to watch how clue, by clue slowly unfolds...

Actually it's Thailand that has a massive problem and can't afford to have a disfunctioning government any longer. IMO a deal has been made that leaded to Somchai election and the deal has just been officially sanctioned by Prem. The present government is here to stay, the PAD is now a liability for everybody and they have to go. It has been recently proved that the police doesn't follow the government orders. If you need a more clear message ….

Thailand has usually had pretty dysfunctional governments.

The one you advocate keeping is proving pretty dysfunctional

judging by their recent initiatives and non-control of the army.

You presume to speak for Prem I see... He smiled it must be a deal...

The present government will be dissolved before mega project patronage can be ensured.

The police have factions that WILL follow brother Thaksin's orders.

Chamlong (not Chalerm)new he had one voting location, he walked right up.

He becomes a figure of persecution for the believers in PAD's anti corruption cause.

When the lesser fish got set up, he went out and REALLY gave them a story,

in as public a way as could be.

And he did it with a peaceful smile on his face.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Reimar
change name

[ratcatcher]

Quoting animatic

"The police have factions that WILL follow brother Thaksin's orders.

Chalerm Chamlong new he had one voting location, he walked right up.

He becomes a figure of persecution for the believers in PAD's anti corruption cause.

When the lesser fish got set up, he went out and REALLY gave them a story,

in as public a way as could be.

And he did it with a peaceful smile on his face.

With all due respect animatic, please do not refer to Chamlong as Chalerm.

The former is a thinker, the latter a buffoon.

Thanks

Edited October 5, 2008 by Reimar
add Chamlong

[permanent_disorder]

The other thing that a lot miss is that in a pluralistic democracy everybody including minorites need to accept the rules for the game to work. Pluralistic democracies virtually always return a government from a minority of the electorate (for example PPP gained 41% of the 70% turnout) for this to work the government once elcted has to accept that it now acts for all the people and not just those who voted for it and that they must protect minorities. In return those who voted for the losing side accepts the winning of a government elected by a minority of the electroate, and vice versa. Right now the problem is the government never accept that they represent anyone than those who voted for them and a lot of those that didnt vote for them wont accept them as the government. It is not helped by the truly horrible cabinets and utter ineptmness of the recent governments either, and of course the horribly low esteem in which politicans are held - somewhere under drug addicts, whores and thieves.

that is one thing not true, there is no majority that supports the PAD. they are just loud mouth and would lose at the ballot box.

Chamlong request to get arrested just another "final move" to draw some attention. bring them to the court and expose their puppet player game, dig more in the dark background and look who is the really puppet master, that would be a win for the thai democracy and get rid of the idea to have a leadership of a moralist do-gooder who unselfishness sacrifices himself. such a clerical system doesn't work. Chamlong try it with the installment of his pupil Thaksin, but he was to much business man and to liberal for Chamlong strong ideas of moral values and ethics. bring the lottery out of the underground business was to much for prohibition fanatic Chamlong. the corruption just the normal result if you hand out too much power. thaksin just the failure of Chamlong faith in dharma voodoo of good leadership. politicans always become whores and thieves. a philosophiser run state doesn't work. the idea of the '97 constitution let only graduates run for office fail. self declared better rulers will turn only worse. minimize the government power, let business run in competition and give people the choice. power of choice is the only power shall be.

power hungry egos have to be stopped by law however "pure" their motivtion is.

[jdinasia]

perm_dis ---

can you try that again? I couldn't make out what you were trying to say ... seriously!

regarding your final statement, when the politicians break down the checks and balances and change the laws and even the country's charter at will, well law has no value at all.

[permanent_disorder]

Samak ignored the PAD?? He openly stated that the police will move them, he calls a National Emergency and we have the Army on the streets and he claims that the leaders should be tried for treason, so asides from these and other things, he just ignored them.

Right.

and did something like this happen? did this "mass murder", the puppet of another "massmurder" feed the PAD trolls and gave them what they are waiting for? no, they PAD clowns whinning just about a little bit minor violence and expose them self as the real culprits.

no heroric movement that suffer surpression and sacrifice themself in bloodshed.

just a muppet show with infantile clapping hand rattles and a bunch of violent brownshirts with golf clubs. educated? forget it.

to get some attention the ubertroll requested his own arrest. or sacrifices himself or so, sondhi says.

---------

Chamlong sacrifices himself: Sondhi

The Nation,October 5, 2008

Sondhi Limthongkul, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said Chamlong Srimuang sacrificed himself so that the people could win in their fight for political reform.

Sondhi said Chamlong called him and asked him to remain a leader of the fight.

Sondh said other PAD leaders - Somsak Kosaisuk, Pipop Thongchai and Somkiart Pongpaibool - did not ask Chamlong any question during the call before his arrest.

"They share the same opinion with Chamlong that there is no war without people who sacrifice," Sondhi said.

Sondhi said Chamlong also asked him to tell protesters not to visit him but to continue their fight until they could oust the government.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30085145

--------

what a pathetic joke and ohhh, this ahh so war rethoric again.

Sondhi & the Asphalt Campers claim Victory since weeks, but nothing happen.

just Samak got in trouble because he got $ 2000 as compensation for travelling costs to a cooking show he host unpaid. ohh, how corrupt that is. a victory of the PAD -no.

the so often debatted dipomatic pass port, the request to free Thailand from any obligations with Cambodia or the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization or UNESCO (source) and so on. anything like this happen? No! don't feed the troll.

how you call this if it's not that the yellow mob got ignored? if they leave the pirate cave - they get arrested, that was the promise.

and the new "final war lord" General Pallop Pinmanee? read about him? don't he disturb the black and white delusion the PAD cult apologists mob have.

[Los78]

No complaints here. It should of been done a long time ago. Ex-generals who entice coups and want appointed governments dont deserve the right to be free. Let him rot in jail with the rest of the PAD hate provoking leadership, although I doubt he will ever stay there for long...

[Moonrakers]

Samak ignored the PAD?? He openly stated that the police will move them, he calls a National Emergency and we have the Army on the streets and he claims that the leaders should be tried for treason, so asides from these and other things, he just ignored them.

Right.

and did something like this happen? did this "mass murder", the puppet of another "massmurder" feed the PAD trolls and gave them what they are waiting for? no, they PAD clowns whinning just about a little bit minor violence and expose them self as the real culprits.

no heroric movement that suffer surpression and sacrifice themself in bloodshed.

just a muppet show with infantile clapping hand rattles and a bunch of violent brownshirts with golf clubs. educated? forget it.

to get some attention the ubertroll requested his own arrest. or sacrifices himself or so, sondhi says.

---------

Chamlong sacrifices himself: Sondhi

The Nation,October 5, 2008

Sondhi Limthongkul, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, said Chamlong Srimuang sacrificed himself so that the people could win in their fight for political reform.

Sondhi said Chamlong called him and asked him to remain a leader of the fight.

Sondh said other PAD leaders - Somsak Kosaisuk, Pipop Thongchai and Somkiart Pongpaibool - did not ask Chamlong any question during the call before his arrest.

"They share the same opinion with Chamlong that there is no war without people who sacrifice," Sondhi said.

Sondhi said Chamlong also asked him to tell protesters not to visit him but to continue their fight until they could oust the government.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30085145

--------

what a pathetic joke and ohhh, this ahh so war rethoric again.

Sondhi & the Asphalt Campers claim Victory since weeks, but nothing happen.

just Samak got in trouble because he got $ 2000 as compensation for travelling costs to a cooking show he host unpaid. ohh, how corrupt that is. a victory of the PAD -no.

the so often debatted dipomatic pass port, the request to free Thailand from any obligations with Cambodia or the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization or UNESCO (source) and so on. anything like this happen? No! don't feed the troll.

how you call this if it's not that the yellow mob got ignored? if they leave the pirate cave - they get arrested, that was the promise.

and the new "final war lord" General Pallop Pinmanee? read about him? don't he disturb the black and white delusion the PAD cult apologists mob have.

Who said anything about mass murders? I was just responding to your comment about Samak ignoring the PAD from day one in which you clearly refused to take into account things such as the S.O.E that WAS declared.

Anyway it is clear that Samak ordered the Police/Army to take action, there where even press releases when Samak clearly stated that the forces would take action, HIS words, he even gave specific times for this to happen. The credit for relatively little violence taking place does not fall with Samak but those whom, for whatever reason, did not carry out his orders.

And how on earth did your post get to UNESCO and $2000 travelling costs for Samaks show?. WAY off tangent as my comment was, and I repeat, about Samak ignoring/not ignoring the PAD.

You need to get out more mate cos you are getting a bit barmy.

[Artisi]

Chamlong getting arrested has certainly brought all the wacko's out again to beat their pathetic drum over and over again. Same old rhetoric, rubbish and ravings most of which doesn't make much sense.

PAD might not be the final answer but it certanly beats the current alternative by a long shot.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Artisi

[jumnien]

Lots of good lively debate, quite inspiring! Keep thinking, keep reaching, undermine your own instincts, leave the rut you've been stuck in, explore a new tangent!

[animatic]

Chamlong getting arrested has certainly brought all the wacko's out again to beat their pathetic drum over and over again. Same old rhetoric, rubbish and ravings most of which doesn't make much sense.

PAD might not be the final answer but it certainly beats the current alternative by a long shot.

Ain't it da truth!

Alternative no watch dogs,

and public disagreement with the government's action stiffled or banned.

So we know what they hate in spades.

Permanently_DIS'ing fits so well.

But NEVER a mention of creative solutions,

nor ANY solutions for the existing problems.

Well one, and only one :

LET PPP HAVE THE FIELD ALL TO THEMSELVES.

Quick, quick wave flags cheer for the home team.

Kleptocracy wins, dialog loses, SHUT THEM UP.

Of course the one sided monomaniacal droning has little

consonance and clarity of thought, with one or two exceptions.

But for any point made clearly and with logic there are

dozens completely baseless infantile and biased in the extreme.

Some how I seriously doubt that young child's parents

would approve of you using his face like you are....

You know that babe is a REAL human being,

not some social concept to be played with.

[pete_r]

Am I the only one in thinking that this could have been decided upon at a meeting between 2 very high profile figures less than a week ago (can't remember what the date was)?

If this is the case it looks more like an exit strategy for Chamlong and would back up opinions I have heard that the PAD leadership had split into factions.

I agree : the whole operation looks strange. Maybe an exit strategy to save face indeed.

Look at some pictures of Chamlong's "arrest"... He doesn't look like someone under stress...

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/2008/10/05...rested-7-to-go/

I smell a deal too. A meeting between Prem and Somchai, then two PAD leaders arrested the same week seem a bit much for a coincidence. The PAD leaders get a promise of mild or no punishment assorted with a nice face-saving exit strategy, Somchai gets more stability for his government, what remains to see is what Prem will get out of it.

[permanent_disorder]

perm_dis ---

can you try that again? I couldn't make out what you were trying to say ... seriously!

regarding your final statement, when the politicians break down the checks and balances and change the laws and even the country's charter at will, well law has no value at all.

where to begin? what is your standard of knowledge? i will try PAD style education.

Chamlong Srimuang, the now arrested moralist is a former teacher and mentor of Thaksin. Chamlong has a vision full of highest moral and ethics, he want instill that to the people, or let's say dictate everybody the right and wrongs. chamlong dharma sect ideas include that do-good, all for the nation and strong leadership as role model with strong power to install the better morals. as good leader was thaksin choosen (chamlong proxy) dharma acts have been one tamboon - one product, the "social order" campaign, devotion to the nation, thaksin, the "good leader", ask his people to hold vegetarian diet weeks to clean the body. the propaganda, thaksin the family man, thaksin always smile, pictures of him everywhere, dharma brainwash of the "good leader". and all people together. all the grass root people have taken part.

but thaksin was also a business man, semi liberal. to liberal for chamlong. he change his horse and became PAD cult muppet player. the idea of the good is now called "New Politics" still irrational becaused the believe in "good leadership". such ideas will fail sooner or later, a ideal state ruled by philosophers, wise persons who accepts the power thrust upon him by the people who are wise enough to choose a good master (Plato) doesn't work. a unfree closed society that leads to totalitarianism (Popper).

"The ability to vote a bad government out of office is enough. That is democracy"(Popper) politicans can become corrupt. control them, don't give them to much power. minimize the state, privatisation, let the people the power of choice (Friedman) to choose by themself what is good for them. and not dictated by "Thinkers" like Chamlong. to cancel corruption the Milton Friedman motto: 'trying to do good with spending other people's money on other people doesn't work' fits here well. i am not recommending to install the whole "Friedman" here, but that is a direction to go and not the opposite way like "New Politics" is dreaming of.

do-gooders go home, if you come out with a mob, swinging clubs, disturb the urban peace, the political and social freedom, because you ego head think to know how to do-better - you go to jail.

anyway, thank you for the show.

about what point and paragraph of a junta constitution, the miitary the country's charter, you wanna nutpicking?

Topic is Chamlong, does he have any good offer?......seriously!

[jdinasia]

Sorry Pete, but do you know much about Prem? and about the goals of the PPP? and about their opposition the PAD?

If so, how likely do you think it is that such a deal has taken place?

I will avoid public speculation about what the Privy Council is doing, or approves of

regarding Perm Dis's ramblings above---- you seem to have missed almost all of the Thaksin/Chamlong dynamic. Your odd treatise on Plato Friedman Popper etc is taken piecemeal and then you thrust in Chamlong's name as a counter ethos. It fails to carry any weight. Thaksin tore down the checks and balances that were here in Thailand, the PEOPLE voted for the current constitution so to call it the Junta's thing is disingenuous. The PPP has moved to amend this charter to pave the way to break down the checks and balances of law even further.

about the PAD, they are not a political party, they are a group focussed upon dealing with the corrupt government in place now (and the former TRT government). They do not need to have all the answers to be morally correct in standing up to corruption at the top levels of government.

about Chamlong, He is part of a small sect of Buddhists in Thailand that are not part of the Thai Sangha while he might enjoy the position to influence national political reform; he is never likely to be the guy in power. His vision of a moral Thailand does not seem to include shoving his morals down the throats of people that are not part of Santi Asoke or the Dharma Army. One could easily look back into the TRT regime and see far stronger attempts to control the moral climate of Thailand than anything Chamlong pushes.

Edited October 5, 2008 by jdinasia

[Moonrakers]

perm_dis ---

can you try that again? I couldn't make out what you were trying to say ... seriously!

regarding your final statement, when the politicians break down the checks and balances and change the laws and even the country's charter at will, well law has no value at all.

where to begin? what is your standard of knowledge? i will try PAD style education.

Chamlong Srimuang, the now arrested moralist is a former teacher and mentor of Thaksin. Chamlong has a vision full of highest moral and ethics, he want instill that to the people, or let's say dictate everybody the right and wrongs. chamlong dharma sect ideas include that do-good, all for the nation and strong leadership as role model with strong power to install the better morals. as good leader was thaksin choosen (chamlong proxy) dharma acts have been one tamboon - one product, the "social order" campaign, devotion to the nation, thaksin, the "good leader", ask his people to hold vegetarian diet weeks to clean the body. the propaganda, thaksin the family man, thaksin always smile, pictures of him everywhere, dharma brainwash of the "good leader". and all people together. all the grass root people have taken part.

but thaksin was also a business man, semi liberal. to liberal for chamlong. he change his horse and became PAD cult muppet player. the idea of the good is now called "New Politics" still irrational becaused the believe in "good leadership". such ideas will fail sooner or later, a ideal state ruled by philosophers, wise persons who accepts the power thrust upon him by the people who are wise enough to choose a good master (Plato) doesn't work. a unfree closed society that leads to totalitarianism (Popper).

"The ability to vote a bad government out of office is enough. That is democracy"(Popper) politicans can become corrupt. control them, don't give them to much power. minimize the state, privatisation, let the people the power of choice (Friedman) to choose by themself what is good for them. and not dictated by "Thinkers" like Chamlong. to cancel corruption the Milton Friedman motto: 'trying to do good with spending other people's money on other people doesn't work' fits here well. i am not recommending to install the whole "Friedman" here, but that is a direction to go and not the opposite way like "New Politics" is dreaming of.

do-gooders go home, if you come out with a mob, swinging clubs, disturb the urban peace, the political and social freedom, because you ego head think to know how to do-better - you go to jail.

anyway, thank you for the show.

about what point and paragraph of a junta constitution, the miitary the country's charter, you wanna nutpicking?

Topic is Chamlong, does he have any good offer?......seriously!

Well thanks for clearing that up for us then.

[animatic]

Sorry Pete, but do you know much about Prem? and about the goals of the PPP? and about their opposition the PAD?

If so, how likely do you think it is that such a deal has taken place?

I will avoid public speculation about what the Privy Council is doing, or approves of

Free market with no checks and balances

We get 700 billion bailouts, and interactive financial trauma world wide.

Let a leader go along with no checks and balances and stop listening to his moral advisors, and

We get Thaksin consolidating all the power in his hands,

ego running amuk, suing ALL who criticise him,

doing deals clearly illegal to benefit his interests;

noting the 5 warrents for arrest now,

killing innocents in the name of increasing a drug war's 'numbers',

and then selling the nation's communication satalite to another country.

And THEN trying to CONTROL the government by proxies while he is on the lam.

Totalitarianism by remote control.

So that invalidates your Popper arguement

Your, for a change lucid, arguments STILL fall on deaf years

because they leave out CRITICAL ancilary evidences.

Any argument that doesn't address all variables of an issue,

but madly harps on ONLY one solution in the face of it's

unsuitability in the long run, leaves little room for acceptance...

And your Milton Friedman quote COMPLETELY invalidates your whole thesis!

~You do READ and consider what you quote don't you?

You don't see that you mis-use quote's of truely great thinkers,

and then try to insult Chamlong by calling him a 'Thinker" in the same sentence.

Are ONLY thinkers you like good?

Edited October 5, 2008 by animatic

[permanent_disorder]

Well thanks for clearing that up for us then.

The brainstorming session on the ideas for new politics will kick - Now Is Time for New Politics

TOC

Chamlong said he’s confident that the so called “clapping hands army” will be the people that bring about phenomenal changes to Thai politics.

Almost every PAD protesters have equipped themselves with a plastic toy in the shape of hands in bright colorful colors. When jiggled, the plastic hands will, in effect, clap and make appropriate clapping noises. The PAD protesters who have been protesting for over 100 days would instead jiggle the hands to clap when they agree with what is being said on the stage instead of using their hands to clap, thus earning them the title the 'clapping hands army.'

[jdinasia]

Well thanks for clearing that up for us then.

The brainstorming session on the ideas for new politics will kick - Now Is Time for New Politics

TOC

Chamlong said he’s confident that the so called “clapping hands army” will be the people that bring about phenomenal changes to Thai politics.

Almost every PAD protesters have equipped themselves with a plastic toy in the shape of hands in bright colorful colors. When jiggled, the plastic hands will, in effect, clap and make appropriate clapping noises. The PAD protesters who have been protesting for over 100 days would instead jiggle the hands to clap when they agree with what is being said on the stage instead of using their hands to clap, thus earning them the title the 'clapping hands army.'

Chamlong: Now Is Time for New Politics

UPDATE : 25 September 2008

a little dated isn't it?

[Bangyai]

Oh animatic, why are you posts all in verse ?

Many of us members find it quite perverse.

Still, as I read I begin to wonder

That with this reposte I might steal your thunder.

Now , I'm sure you are sincere in your belief

That its not PAD's intention to bring Thailand to grief

But if all of their leaders end up behind bars

Arrested while voting or driving their cars

Who will be left to run the big show ?

Panlop and who else we'd like to know ?

Is there anyone else who will pick up the chalice

Who could possibly be Sondhis equal in malice ?

If you have an opinion, we await your reply

But please not in verse , or grown men will cry