Chamlong Srimuang Arrested

[h90]

May I change that a little bit

There is just the educated greedy upper class against (a corrupt ?) legal government. 'PAD' Party of anti Democrats as a fore front. Vote buying my ass. The ' PAD' pays serious money for the sit in.

Chamlong's got the guns, Money, and right-wing ultra-nationalist Thai-Chinese PAD behind him and is undoubtedly being well taken care of at the moment. No need to shed tears for the man...

"Thai-Chinese PAD"? --- am I missing something? Wasn't it Thaksin that is Thai Chinese? Perhaps you mean urban,educated Thais

The "Sons of Chinese" have never been fans of Thaksin and have most recently aligned themselves with the right-wing ultra-nationalist PAD elitists.

Thaksin is Chinese, Samak is, Somchai is, have a look at PPP, many have chinese descent.

Chamlong, Sondhi as well.

There is no Chinese against Thais Nationalism. There is just the educated middle class against a corrupt illegal government. Meanwhile also joined by many other groups of the society, like most of the southern people, labor unions, academics farmers, etc etc.. Sure you'll also find there right wing, left wing, nationalists, monarchist, beside PPP fans you'll find almost everything there.

Which legal government?? A government which former premier broke the constitution made from parties which get all dissolved soon????

[Bangyai]

Oh animatic, why are you posts all in verse ?

Many of us members find it quite perverse.

Still, as I read I begin to wonder

That with this reposte I might steal your thunder.

Now , I'm sure you are sincere in your belief

That its not PAD's intention to bring Thailand to grief

But if all of their leaders end up behind bars

Arrested while voting or driving their cars

Who will be left to run the big show ?

Panlop and who else we'd like to know ?

Is there anyone else who will pick up the chalice

Who could possibly be Sondhis equal in malice ?

If you have an opinion, we await your reply

But please not in verse , or grown men will cry

Cute.

I write in a fashion that allows me to see my thoughts clearly.

And express them with my intended meanings. And the fewest spelling mistakes.

All other considerations take a back seat. I have some form of dyslexia,

and rarely ever wrote prior to word processing machines.

My eyes can see more clearly for whatever reasons if I do NOT write in long blocks

with few spaces. You may note I rarely write in rhymes, though I can if called upon.

I look at long wide paragraphs as a horror of idea compression, that may contain pearls,

which can be lost in a swine pit of muddy confusion. I read 2-3 hours a day after a

21 day winter camping trip with no reading what so ever, several decades back.

I returned and found that a normally 30 minute trip through the local paper,

suddenly took 3 hours with reduced comprehension.

But this lost speed and understandingreturned after reading a lot for a week.

The same happened for sight reading symphonic level classical music. Use it or lose it.

If I chose, I likely could play in the Bangkok Symphony, but have not the time.

So I feel no compunction to change my style on this or an other BBS.

Clarity of thought trumps form of expression any day.

As to whom might be filling the PAD leader's shoes,

I can't hazard a guess I have not yet a clue,

Some one else will rise and speak up in time due

And some folks here will curse and hold noses anew

And yet many will like the new face and clear voice

Confirming for them now, that they may yet rejoice

They will not be silenced, gain a new standard to hoist

And can someday place a leader who's REALLY their choice

And those Phi Krasu demons living so far away

who would yet pull the strings and their puppets to sway

Shall see strings sliced thin, parsed and utterly debrayed

And no longer control Thialand from up Kensington way

A constitution stood firmly, unsullied from grievous hands

And the 1st through 4th strings will be banned and outmanned

The people will smile as new equal fairness will rise and expand,

With old interests wanning Nom jai will reign over their land

A very reasonable reply followed by a nice piece of verse. Perhaps you have missed your vocation. My own spelling is pretty hit and miss and its not helped by the fact that I've only been using computers for a year and have had to teach myself .As for the Bangkok Symphony, well , if you ever change your mind I'll come down there with you with my guitar and strum the chords while you pick out the melody.

Oh yes and as for the Topic of this thread, perhaps dr_Pat_Pong was right all along, too much speculation on something none of us have all the facts on. The coming week should be interesting although reading the papers today the consensus of editorial opinion seems to be that its all a PAD strategy to garner more support for a possibly stronger move to be made later in the week.

If the PPP had any influence on the courts ( which clearly they don't ) they might gain themselves a few brownie points by arranging to have the charges dropped in an amnesty that might facilitate a compromise. That would throw a damper on things again. Sadly, this is not on someones agenda and will not be allowed.

[TAWP]

Absolutely disgusting that such a criminal was allowed to vote first before hauled off to prison!

So you support denying people suspected of crimes [not even yet convicted] of their voting rights?

Who is the fascist now?

[younghusband]

the PEOPLE voted for the current constitution so to call it the Junta's thing is disingenuous.

No it's not and in fact it is you that is being disingenuous.

The whole apparatus of the state was launched by the junta and its puppet government to get the constitution approved, preferably with a North Korean style majority.There was a great deal of criticism by independent observers of this possibly illegal process.It just scraped through notwithstanding the junta's threat to impose the new constitution unilaterally if it was not approved.More critically the threat was made that elections and the return of democracy would be indefinitely delayed if the constitution was not approved.Even in this atmosphere of intimidation there were massive votes against the rigged constitution, accurately described by one commentator as a sharp slap in the face for the junta.Among those who approved there was undeniably a high proportion who voted in favour on the "anything to get the buggers out" basis.

[hardy1943]

PAD or PPP are in the business to line their pockets. Forget about Democracy that is only a smoke screen.

Corruption is a way of life in LOS but members of political parties are in risked of going to prison.

The military is above the law and so are the police chiefs they both could hold seminars on corruption.

[jdinasia]

Absolutely disgusting that such a criminal was allowed to vote first before hauled off to prison!

So you support denying people suspected of crimes [not even yet convicted] of their voting rights?

Who is the fascist now?

I pointed that out much earlier in the thread, but of course sunrise didn't respond to it.

younghusband, you are dreaming and making things out of whole cloth. But feel free to ignore the results of the public will regarding the constitution and thus promote the Thaksin/PPP agenda

[jdinasia]

PAD or PPP are in the business to line their pockets. Forget about Democracy that is only a smoke screen.

Corruption is a way of life in LOS but members of political parties are in risked of going to prison.

The military is above the law and so are the police chiefs they both could hold seminars on corruption.

hardy, I don't think you can make the claim that Chamlong is in this to line his pockets; I also do not think that you can make the claim that the PAD is a political party

[sriracha john]

Now that the man in London, who has "quit politics", has been consulted, negotiations can continue...

Chavalit still positive about PAD negotiations

Deputy PM Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, said the arrest of the PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang would not affect the negotiations between the government and the PAD. Chavalit believed Chamlong did not plan to topple the government’s effort to negotiate with the PAD and to gather a mass demonstration by being arrested after casting his ballot in the Bangkok governor election on Sunday. Although Chamlong was arrested, other PAD leaders such as Sondhi Limthongkul and Somsak Kosaisuk can still negotiate with the government, the Deputy PM said. He believed the PAD leaders have good intentions towards the country and he is ready to work without feeling disheartened. Chavalit said he had talks about the national situation with ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. He said Thaksin is also a Thai person, and it would be normal for him to be worried about his country.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131138

[younghusband]

younghusband, you are dreaming and making things out of whole cloth. But feel free to ignore the results of the public will regarding the constitution and thus promote the Thaksin/PPP agenda

Instead of just blocking your ears try doing some research, and then thinking instead of repeating mantra.The view I expressed on the current constitution's background isn't controversial as a cursory study of both local and international analysts views, some committed oppoonents of Thaksin, would show.However I suspect your mindset is revealed through your assumption that anyone who queries the legitimacy of the current constitution is promoting the Thaksin/PPP agenda.

[jdinasia]

Like I said, repeating yourself to promote your pro Thaksin/PPP agenda while not supporting your claims with facts is lame, feel free to ignore the public will in the matter of the constitution whilst bemoaning acts of civil disobedience done by people wishing for a less corrupt government

[younghusband]

Like I said, repeating yourself to promote your pro Thaksin/PPP agenda while not supporting your claims with facts is lame, feel free to ignore the public will in the matter of the constitution whilst bemoaning acts of civil disobedience done by people wishing for a less corrupt government

It's odd how posts beginning "Like I said" invariably herald a semi literate muddle.

I have been quite specific on the background to the current constitution.Which parts precisely do you dispute?

[jumnien]

Absolutely disgusting that such a criminal was allowed to vote first before hauled off to prison!

Guess you are now so happy - will be able to get your jollies now for a week or two.

Another Busch supporter perhaps?

OBAMA all the way in 2008! Keep the faith!

[jdinasia]

Even the PPP doesn't dispute the legitimacy of the current constitution, the parts they want to change are the same as the past charter, but you say otherwise.

Under any of the recent charters the results for Thaksin and TRT etc would have been history. You are just promoting a pro-Thaksin/PPP agenda.

[jumnien]

Why was Gen. Chamlong allowed to cast his vote when he has no respect for the electoral system???

Who says he only cast one vote?

[younghusband]

Even the PPP doesn't dispute the legitimacy of the current constitution, the parts they want to change are the same as the past charter, but you say otherwise.

Under any of the recent charters the results for Thaksin and TRT etc would have been history. You are just promoting a pro-Thaksin/PPP agenda.

I don't question its legitimacy either in the sense it is the country's legal constitution.

The rest of your post is I am afraid rather hard to understand.When or if you can get your thoughts in order please post again and I will respond as best I can.In the meantime may I politely suggest you read a liitle more into the background.

[jdinasia]

I suggest you do the same, as well as take some reading for understanding classes

[sriracha john]

DPM says arrest of PAD leader will not impact negotiations

The Deputy Prime Minister tasked with furthering negotiations with the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has expressed confidence that the arrest of PAD Leader Major General Chamlong Srimuang will not derail talks.

Deputy Prime Minister General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh commented that the apprehension of PAD head Major General Chamlong Srimuang was not commissioned by the government, but was due to the active arrest warrant issued to him that police were compelled to act on.

He assured that the PAD leader's detainment was not a staged event while also expressing confidence it would not affect negotiations with the PAD. DPM General Chavalit said he would push onward with talks with the group's remaining leaders.

General Chavalit also revealed that he has spoken to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra about the matter, but only because the deposed PM is a citizen of the nation and is concerned over its situation in a resident capacity.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-06

======================================

One Thai citizen duly spoken to... only 65,123,023 more phone calls for the Deputy PM to make.

Edited October 6, 2008 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

I suggest you do the same, as well as take some reading for understanding classes

Here's a piece from August 17th last year to start your research.

Thais to vote on military-sponsored charter

By Nopporn Wong-Anan

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thais vote on a military-drafted constitution few have read or understood on Sunday in a referendum expected to approve a charter that will pave the way for a return to elected government by the end of the year.

For many, the complicated fight over the charter, which takes power from politicians and hands it to bureaucrats and judges, has come down to a battle between friends and foes of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted in a bloodless coup.

The new constitution was designed to prevent the re-emergence of a strong, single-party government like Thaksin's, and means a return to the constantly collapsing coalitions of the early 1990s, political analysts say.

Politicians would also be suborned by the increased power of bureaucrats, as happened during the "managed democracy" of the 1980s under ex-army chief Prem Tinsulanonda, now chief royal adviser and seen by the Thaksin camp as the coup mastermind.

"Thaksin has obviously been on the mind of the drafters, so what has come out is an attempt to prevent the rise of a second Thaksin, hence making it difficult for people to get elected," said former senator Kraisak Choonhavan, a Thaksin opponent.

Few believe an anti-charter campaign, spearheaded by Thaksin supporters but including some foes, will succeed in voting it down, but a low turnout would be an embarrassment for the generals who deposed him in a bloodless coup last September.

"The chances are high that the referendum will pass and the reason is because the government and the military have all the powers in their hands," said political science professor Thitinan Pongsudhirak of Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

ALLEGATIONS FLY

As in most Thai elections, allegations of vote buying and strong-arm tactics are flying.

The military council behind the coup and the government it appointed are striving to get at least 60 percent of the 45 million voters to cast ballots, arguing the new charter would provide an "ethical" and "legitimate" democracy.

Coup leaders have enlisted 400,000 military personnel to persuade people to back the draft charter, branded by Thaksin -- for whom the Supreme Court has issued an arrest warrant on corruption charges -- as "fruit of the poisonous tree".

The Interior Ministry has instructed governors of all 76 provinces to order 80,000 village chiefs to get as many people as possible to the polling booths and awards will be given to the governors whose province have the highest turnouts.

Thousands of anti-charter letters and VCDs have been handed out in northern and central provinces, strongholds of Thaksin's disbanded Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party, the Bangkok Post reported on Friday.

Opponents of the draft, who deny the charges, are accused of paying people to vote "No" or stay at home.

Still, government and election officials say privately they are sure the draft will sail through the referendum, a result the generals and the government promise will lead to a general election in December.

If it doesn't pass, the coup council and the government will have to pick one of the 17 past constitutions, revise it and promulgate it within 30 days, according to the interim charter under which they are operating.

"They will surely revise it in a way that serves the same aims and objectives of the draft that they have now basically to try to reduce executive powers, reduce power of politicians and elected politicians and ministers," Thitinan said.

That prospect may prompt people to vote for the draft, rather than face the unknown, in hopes the constitution will be amended by the government once it is elected.

"We have no choice whether we like the current draft or not," said Kamta Kanboonchan, a farmer activist who works for Thaksin in the northeast. "Our hands are tied and it is a one-sided bout."

(Additional reporting by Gill Griffith-Jones

[Samuian]

Chamlong gets arrested, Somchai rushes in to pledge that his government has nothing to do with ordering his arrest, "there was a long standing arrest warrant issued by the court"!

...then Chavalit confirms, that he had talks with the man in London, who faces 5 and his wife 1 arrest warrant/s and says that this man, as a thai, is very concerned about his country.....

but then in turn this "concerned thai" applies for "political asylum"... it's getting really messy!

[jdinasia]

right ... so it was reported that 1) it was the belief of some that the new constitution was aimed at keeping Thaksin out of politics (the fact that he had already sworn off politics not withstanding) and that he was already banned as he would have been under either of the previous 2 charters

and the propaganda machine of TRT/Thaksin was working hard and could not stop the charter from being passed. So much for the control he claimed

Thousands of anti-charter letters and VCDs have been handed out in northern and central provinces, strongholds of Thaksin's disbanded Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party, the Bangkok Post reported on Friday.

Opponents of the draft, who deny the charges, are accused of paying people to vote "No" or stay at home.

again ... no real facts in those articles just opinion and speculation that you are using to support an untenable position regarding the new constitution

[younghusband]

right ... so it was reported that 1) it was the belief of some that the new constitution was aimed at keeping Thaksin out of politics (the fact that he had already sworn off politics not withstanding) and that he was already banned as he would have been under either of the previous 2 charters

and the propaganda machine of TRT/Thaksin was working hard and could not stop the charter from being passed. So much for the control he claimed

Thousands of anti-charter letters and VCDs have been handed out in northern and central provinces, strongholds of Thaksin's disbanded Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thais) party, the Bangkok Post reported on Friday.

Opponents of the draft, who deny the charges, are accused of paying people to vote "No" or stay at home.

again ... no real facts in those articles just opinion and speculation that you are using to support an untenable position regarding the new constitution

I chose the Nopporn article because he's fair and, as in this instance, gives both sides of the case.Making your case for you (since you apperently are incapable of doing so) I would say there was a strong argument to look at ways to prevent a politician like Thaksin over reaching himself and blocking the checks and balances that are so important.I think it could have been done under the excellent 1997 constitution, but there's a reasonable argument to be had that some constitutional amendment was needed.

The reason why I can't respect people like you is that you have no flexibility, nuance or capacity to admit error.It's just simple minded repetition and accusing people with whom you don't agree of promoting Thaksin's agenda.

[jdinasia]

LOL ... ouch! I am hurt! A pro-Thaksin crony supporter doesn't respect me!

There is no reasonable argument for amending the charter to allow Thaksin and his TRT cronies back into politics before the ban is over. In fact you suggest that the ban was reasonable in the paragraph above your pro-Thaksin appeasement. Thaksin and his cronies would have been out under any of the recent charters but you, pushing your pro-thaksin agenda, think that amending the charter NOW to allow them back is OK? Sorry but that flies in the face of what you yourself have already said.

[AlKing]

One thing is very clear to me now.

The PAD are using people (children, women elderly included) as a human shield to protect themselve and their interested.

Without that (the human shield), they are nothing, and no better than any political criminals (like Thaksin et al).

Sondhi is a chicken and remains hiding behind the human shield. He has practicaly jailed himself in.

[Samuian]

LOL ... ouch! I am hurt! A pro-Thaksin crony supporter doesn't respect me!

There is no reasonable argument for amending the charter to allow Thaksin and his TRT cronies back into politics before the ban is over. In fact you suggest that the ban was reasonable in the paragraph above your pro-Thaksin appeasement. Thaksin and his cronies would have been out under any of the recent charters but you, pushing your pro-thaksin agenda, think that amending the charter NOW to allow them back is OK? Sorry but that flies in the face of what you yourself have already said.

Many claim that the 1997 charter was the best, this country ever had, out of 18!

Fact is that this Charter has been manipulated by the TRT led Government under Mr.Taksins Premiership to serve his & the governments needs, see telecom act, temasak deal, taxes, concessions etc.!

Then it has been re-written by a committee which happened to be under military ruler ship after the coup which ousted this PM with his cronies because things went out of hand, the trigger was a multi-million deal which has gone tax free, which in return again secured a very nice extra profit-margin for the Shin.Corp owned by the clan of the ousted PM... do I need to elaborate any further?

Then, the courts under the EXISTING - rewritten Constitution order, after reviewing, several court cases filed against MR.Taxin and his Wife, and came up with 5 convictions in the cases against former PM and 1 against his wife!

There are other court decisions still pending!

Not to forget a proper independent investigation into the deaths of some 2500 people in the so called "war against drugs"!

[toybits]

What do you call a person that supports the overthrowing of a DULY elected government official?

What kind of person would endorse the appointment of 70% of the parliament and call themselves People's Alliance for DEMOCRACY?

Absurd???

Absolutely disgusting that such a criminal was allowed to vote first before hauled off to prison!

So you support denying people suspected of crimes [not even yet convicted] of their voting rights?

Who is the fascist now?

Edited October 6, 2008 by toybits

[Samuian]

What do you call a person that supports the overthrowing of a DULY elected government official?

What kind of person would endorse the appointment of 70% of the parliament and call themselves People's Alliance for DEMOCRACY?

Absurd???

Absolutely disgusting that such a criminal was allowed to vote first before hauled off to prison!

So you support denying people suspected of crimes [not even yet convicted] of their voting rights?

Who is the fascist now?

yes Sir!

What kind of person would try to defend a complete corrupt government plagued by massive cronyism, nepotism, election fraud and miss using political power for personal gains and condoning a former prime minister and his wife on the run from justice?

Just a thought, Sir!

The 70% clause is one of several ideas people came up with to COMBAT the decades old "thai-system" of running crony governments, which under the TRT Taxin rule saw an unprecedented bloom of government piracy!

.....is this so difficult to grasp or is it simply condoning this system for private gains?

Edited October 6, 2008 by Samuian

[younghusband]

LOL ... ouch! I am hurt! A pro-Thaksin crony supporter doesn't respect me!

There is no reasonable argument for amending the charter to allow Thaksin and his TRT cronies back into politics before the ban is over. In fact you suggest that the ban was reasonable in the paragraph above your pro-Thaksin appeasement. Thaksin and his cronies would have been out under any of the recent charters but you, pushing your pro-thaksin agenda, think that amending the charter NOW to allow them back is OK? Sorry but that flies in the face of what you yourself have already said.

I don't think many would call me a pro-Thaksin crony supporter.It's too silly to refute but look at my posts.

You have changed the subject.We were discussing the origins of the junta-supported constitution.As it happens I don't support a blanket amnesty for banned TRT members but that's a different topic altogether.If you wish to be taken seriously stick to the matter at hand and make a reasoned case.

[jdinasia]

LOL ... ouch! I am hurt! A pro-Thaksin crony supporter doesn't respect me!

There is no reasonable argument for amending the charter to allow Thaksin and his TRT cronies back into politics before the ban is over. In fact you suggest that the ban was reasonable in the paragraph above your pro-Thaksin appeasement. Thaksin and his cronies would have been out under any of the recent charters but you, pushing your pro-thaksin agenda, think that amending the charter NOW to allow them back is OK? Sorry but that flies in the face of what you yourself have already said.

I don't think many would call me a pro-Thaksin crony supporter.It's too silly to refute but look at my posts.

You have changed the subject.We were discussing the origins of the junta-supported constitution.As it happens I don't support a blanket amnesty for banned TRT members but that's a different topic altogether.If you wish to be taken seriously stick to the matter at hand and make a reasoned case.

Discussing anything with you is senseless, you waffle back and forth more than anyone I have seen.... I don't wish to be taken seriously by someone with a pro-Thaksin agenda

BUT The topic of this thread is Chamlong. The constitution is a done deal and it holds up, amending it to protect your pro-Thaksin agenda is silly. You can't even keep consistent in one post much less between posts!

[younghusband]

LOL ... ouch! I am hurt! A pro-Thaksin crony supporter doesn't respect me!

There is no reasonable argument for amending the charter to allow Thaksin and his TRT cronies back into politics before the ban is over. In fact you suggest that the ban was reasonable in the paragraph above your pro-Thaksin appeasement. Thaksin and his cronies would have been out under any of the recent charters but you, pushing your pro-thaksin agenda, think that amending the charter NOW to allow them back is OK? Sorry but that flies in the face of what you yourself have already said.

I don't think many would call me a pro-Thaksin crony supporter.It's too silly to refute but look at my posts.

You have changed the subject.We were discussing the origins of the junta-supported constitution.As it happens I don't support a blanket amnesty for banned TRT members but that's a different topic altogether.If you wish to be taken seriously stick to the matter at hand and make a reasoned case.

Discussing anything with you is senseless, you waffle back and forth more than anyone I have seen.... I don't wish to be taken seriously by someone with a pro-Thaksin agenda

BUT The topic of this thread is Chamlong. The constitution is a done deal and it holds up, amending it to protect your pro-Thaksin agenda is silly. You can't even keep consistent in one post much less between posts!

I think the problem with you is what dons at Cambridge, rather snootily I concede, described as a lack of a "trained mind".You appear not to even read let alone understand responses to your posts.But you are right the topic is Chamlong and your ignorance on the origins and circumstances of the junta's charter is a diversion.If it somehow satisfies you to label opponents as Thaksin crony supporters so be it.Your words define you I'm afraid.

As to Chamlong, he is clearly the most attractive of the PAD leadership (not a very high bar) and his past defiance of tyranny gives him some credit (though his behaviour in 1992 wasn't entirely exemplary).I think what we are seeing can be interpreted as the PAD in disassembly mode or the elite calling off their attack dog.Perhaps it's the same thing depending on where one stands.

[jdinasia]

LOL ...

again you can't maintain consistency in a single post. Your history of posts show you to be pro-Thaksin and formerly pro-TRT. It suits you to call names but you can't face the fact of your own bias.

Your analysis of the current situation may be far far off as well. It is possible that Chamlong is out of the picture, temporarily, to keep him likable to Thais and to let the situation escalate with his replacement.