Is Thailand Value for money

[DFW2BKK]

Greetings all.

Could anyone recommend a farang-oriented organization populated by law firm lawyers and in-house counsel? The closest I can find is something along the lines of AMCHAM.

Many thanks.

[jdinasia]

didn't you work here as an attny for 2 years? i would think that you'd already have contacts like that!

[DFW2BKK]

didn't you work here as an attny for 2 years? i would think that you'd already have contacts like that!

Why would I pose the question if I knew the answer? The circumstances and nature of my prior work did not lend themselves to this kind of activity. I now know I will be here for a number of years. Before I was anticipating being hauled back to America at any moment. Things change.

You must have loads of time on your hands.

[DFW2BKK]

Does anybody know whether the "Law Society of Thailand" is defunct?

[WilliamJarvis]

I don't know if it still holds true, but the Diplomat bar in the Conrad (Friday nights) was very popular.

That said, I would guess that there are about 10% of foreign lawyers now that there were in the late 1990s.

Also, if you play golf there used to be a group of [lawyer] golfers who would go out at 6a.m. Sunday mornings for a round at Mong Ek (sp) near the old airport.

[DFW2BKK]

I don't know if it still holds true, but the Diplomat bar in the Conrad (Friday nights) was very popular.

That said, I would guess that there are about 10% of foreign lawyers now that there were in the late 1990s.

Also, if you play golf there used to be a group of [lawyer] golfers who would go out at 6a.m. Sunday mornings for a round at Mong Ek (sp) near the old airport.

Thanks for the tips. Do you have any idea why there has been such a decline in the presence of foreign lawyers?

From what I can tell, they still dwell in some numbers in the halls of large law firms in Bangkok.

[bendix]

There has been a decline. There has also been a decline in the number of large law firms operating in Thailand. The way law firms are structured financially has a lot to do with this; most London or NY magic circle firms have hitherto effectively subsidised operations in developing countries and patience has run out. In the last couple of years in Thailand, for example, Freshfields have gone and Minter Ellison turned to custard.

Who is left? All the big firms have presences here to some degree but the expensive expat partners aren't so prominent as they used to be. The firms realised that in a market like Thailand the model of flying expats in for two or three years simply didnt work because they didnt have the business and government connections local lawyers have. What you see now is many international firms with only one or two expat lawyers (eg Linklaters, Herbert Smith etc).

Baker & McKenzie - another good example - has always had a model which favoured developing local lawyers and partners instead of transplanting expats. Their model applies everywhere, not just in Thailand. They do have one expat partner now (he was promoted two years ago, but was hired locally after living here many years and was certainly not transplanted into the firm from an overseas office). I think they have around 2-3 other expat lawyers; again, all hired locally.

[DFW2BKK]

There has been a decline. There has also been a decline in the number of large law firms operating in Thailand. The way law firms are structured financially has a lot to do with this; most London or NY magic circle firms have hitherto effectively subsidised operations in developing countries and patience has run out. In the last couple of years in Thailand, for example, Freshfields have gone and Minter Ellison turned to custard.

Who is left? All the big firms have presences here to some degree but the expensive expat partners aren't so prominent as they used to be. The firms realised that in a market like Thailand the model of flying expats in for two or three years simply didnt work because they didnt have the business and government connections local lawyers have. What you see now is many international firms with only one or two expat lawyers (eg Linklaters, Herbert Smith etc).

Baker & McKenzie - another good example - has always had a model which favoured developing local lawyers and partners instead of transplanting expats. Their model applies everywhere, not just in Thailand. They do have one expat partner now (he was promoted two years ago, but was hired locally after living here many years and was certainly not transplanted into the firm from an overseas office). I think they have around 2-3 other expat lawyers; again, all hired locally.

Very illuminating. Having dealt with a couple of the BKK satellite offices you reference I always thought the model for the mega-firms was only to hire Western lawyers who had gone native and would never leave Asia. I agree that it would be pointless in the extreme to have foreign lawyers swooping in for two-year expat stints.

After his firm bailed out of Thailand one senior Western attorney I dealt with for a couple of years proceeded to migrate to a series of other large firms as opposed to fleeing back home. But it stands to reason that few expat lawyers would be inclined to ride that merry-go-round.

[WilliamJarvis]

^Linklaters in 2003/2004 had 6 expat lawyers, including 3 expat partners. Today they have 1 expat senior associate. Clifford Chance still maintain an expat Managing Partner. I don't think any of the A&O partners are equity *but could be wrong* and Simon was a local lawyer a long time before A&O picked him up (again, as he had articled at A&O). DLA Piper and B&M do have expat partners, but they have a Swiss set-up, which is different to the 'magic circle' firm structure.

I read once on here - and it could have been Bendix who wrote it - that international law firms in Thailand are nothing more than a franchise. Having worked for over 12 years in international law firms in Thailand, I would agree 100% with that.

[WilliamJarvis]

There has been a decline. There has also been a decline in the number of large law firms operating in Thailand. The way law firms are structured financially has a lot to do with this; most London or NY magic circle firms have hitherto effectively subsidised operations in developing countries and patience has run out. In the last couple of years in Thailand, for example, Freshfields have gone and Minter Ellison turned to custard.

Who is left? All the big firms have presences here to some degree but the expensive expat partners aren't so prominent as they used to be. The firms realised that in a market like Thailand the model of flying expats in for two or three years simply didnt work because they didnt have the business and government connections local lawyers have. What you see now is many international firms with only one or two expat lawyers (eg Linklaters, Herbert Smith etc).

Baker & McKenzie - another good example - has always had a model which favoured developing local lawyers and partners instead of transplanting expats. Their model applies everywhere, not just in Thailand. They do have one expat partner now (he was promoted two years ago, but was hired locally after living here many years and was certainly not transplanted into the firm from an overseas office). I think they have around 2-3 other expat lawyers; again, all hired locally.

AAR is the only international law firm that I know who still actively recruit offshore - but I think that has something to do with the fact that they are in a JV with Siam Premier.

[bendix]

^Linklaters in 2003/2004 had 6 expat lawyers, including 3 expat partners. Today they have 1 expat senior associate. Clifford Chance still maintain an expat Managing Partner. I don't think any of the A&O partners are equity *but could be wrong* and Simon was a local lawyer a long time before A&O picked him up (again, as he had articled at A&O). DLA Piper and B&M do have expat partners, but they have a Swiss set-up, which is different to the 'magic circle' firm structure.

I read once on here - and it could have been Bendix who wrote it - that international law firms in Thailand are nothing more than a franchise. Having worked for over 12 years in international law firms in Thailand, I would agree 100% with that.

I might have said that. By Swiss set up, I think we mean swiss verein, a similar ownership structure to the Big Four accounting firms where they share consistent guiding principles and work closely together, but they are seperate legal entities to protect themselves from an Andersens type implosion should one office have problems.

As for the comments on B&M above, that's not true. I think they've only had three expat partners in the entire 30 years years they've been in Thailand. The first was the Australian Bakers guy who set it up with a Thai. He still has an office in the firm, but is no longer a partner having retired 3-4 years ago. There was a young Australian salaried partner there a few years ago, but he was fired and is now inhouse counsel for a property firm in Singapore. And they now have a young American guy as a salaried partner.