Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[Plus]

The GOVERNMENT serves the PEOPLE whom voted it IN. If Thaksin is one of those PEOPLE, well they should serve HIM. Again, deal with it!

That's a new and unexpected excuse.

[jayjayjayjay]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

The turmoil was created by the move to change the constitution.

Surayud government was the best I have seen since Chuan.

Did you vote for them?

After Chaun's rain (and I thought he was a good person, just surrounded by idiots), he could not run an administration properly, drug dealers were working there deals in front of my house. Not a problem, but 5m away from my front gate is a primary school, and 15m away is the entrance to a temple. They had a wonderful time. 12 and 13 years olds were recruited as dealers in the school. I was robbed twice in mid 1999 and again 2000. Petty crimes(video, watch, money, cameras) that had people in my house at 3am while myself and my daughters slept upstairs. In the following 9 years I have not been robbed once.

[quiksilva]

Catmac, there were replies to this already.

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs. If one of them turned to be an amputee already, what's the big deal? Blood on him doesn't look real to you? Staged by creative PAD directors?

Now that the dust has settled a little, let's look at the facts.

1. It is now admitted by PAD that the demonstrator who "had his leg blown off by a tear-gas grenade" never had that leg anyway. He was an amputee when PAD put him in the line of fire.

2. See post141 on page 6 - "When asked about the cause of a male protester, who has lost his leg during the riot, Pol Maj Gen Amnuay said the man could have stepped on barbed wire around the Parliament", maybe the police were telling the truth all along. In the mayhem following the first firing of teargas, this poor devil walking on only one leg and crutches got tripped or fell or otherwise got himself entangled in the razor wire that PAD had set up.

3. The blood on him is certainly real, but from the superficial razor-wire cuts, NOT from the loss of a limb!

4. There then followed a series of obvious ficticious reports in the Nation, TOC and ASTV allegedly from hospitals and doctors who claimed that the leg had been blown away by "powerful explosives". How much of this was the result of the natural confusion at the scene, panic at the hospital or the deliberate disinformation of the PAD propaganda machine, I don't know.

5. Following the massive publicity gained by this bogus amputation, PAD's propaganda team then went into overdrive, literally spreading their pool of amputees around (just check that photo of sunrise70's, what the H-ll were all those amputees gathered at PAD's compound for?) anywhere that a confrontation took place. Mock blood and clever make-up flowed freely, and gulible media and TV posters lapped it up, screaming hysterical abuse at the police and the Government!

You see it all fits in so easily with the lies that have spewed out of Sondhi's mouth for years. If you believe a word that PAD says, you'll believe anything.

Sorry to ruin all of your "FACT" points... but...

1. The amputee is missing more of his leg after getting hit with an unidentified explosive.

2. His wounds are entirely NOT consistent with any sort of barbed wire trauma.

3. The blood and wounds in these photos are NOT superficial in any manner and indicative of new, additional massive trauma on his already partially amputated leg.

*DISCLAIMER: The link posted below containing the photos, that I've described above, are quite graphic...too graphic, even for me, to post. Viewer discretion is advised.*

http://www.oknation.net/blog/sigree/2008/10/08/entry-4

Most certainly NOT barbed wire...

[Golf]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny mop. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE TO PAD!"

PS. Please do not sue me on copyright.

No, I am not gonna sue you or anything, but it is obvious that you and I are quite different in thinking.

[jayjayjayjay]

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs, Catmac.

Don't force me to search trhough this thread for pictures of other men who lost their limbs.

NO, now you have made a clear statment, be a man and prove IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There were undoubtedly injuries on both side, but you have said, and I quote, "There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs, Catmac"

Loosing a limb, means, it was blown-off, amputated, and/or severed by other means. I have yet to see a single one, prove it! Your credibility is on the line. without it, your 6000 Plus posts are rubbish........... forum wasting........ nothing more nothing less

Edited October 9, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[clausewitz]

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs, Catmac.

Don't force me to search trhough this thread for pictures of other men who lost their limbs.

Do you have the evidence for this ?

[jdinasia]

There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs, Catmac.

Don't force me to search trhough this thread for pictures of other men who lost their limbs.

NO, now you have made a clear statment, be a man and prove IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There were undoubtedly injuries on both side, but you have said, and I quote, "There were EIGHT people who lost their limbs, Catmac"

Loosing a limb, means, it was blown-off, amputated, and/or severed by other means. I have yet to see a single one, prove it! Your credibility is on the line. without it, your 6000 Plus posts are rubbish........... forum wasting........ nothing more nothing less

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2264118

read it there ...

[Plus]

Jury still out on reasons for many injuries

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

Published on October 9, 2008

The heavy casualties from Tuesday's crackdown on protesters beg the question how could a non-lethal crowd-control agent lead to eight victims losing their limps. One woman died from chest injuries and one man died from a car explosion....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...p;keyword=avudh

[sriracha john]

Chulalongkorn doctors boycott police

Doctors of the Chulalongkorn Hospital Wednesday refused to treat police injured during Tuesday's clashes with protesters.

Suthep said Chulalongkorn doctors would seek cooperation from doctors of other hospitals to boycott police as well.

- The Nation / 2008-10-08

==========================

Well, I would suggest to call this doctor or go and see him/her and ask what REALLY happened BEFORE hanging or nailing him/her on to the cross, ladies & gentleman!

... as long as this story isn't really clear, we should take it with a pinch of salt.

BINGO!... and I am just as guilty as others for jumping the gun myself on this inaccurate reporting. Apparently this is yet another large element of "Lost in Translation".... as the physician in this case did not issue a blanket, out and out refusal to treat police. To corroborate the translation I've just received comes this breaking news...

Medical Council: Physicians can refuse treating "non-emergency" patients

Physicians have the right not to treat patients and their refusal is not deemed unethical, according to Medical Council of Thailand President Somsak Lolekha. However, he said the patients must not be in emergency cases, and if the cases are in emergency status, physicians must perform without bias. Article 43 of the constitution clearly states that if physicians are not comfortable in treating patients who are not in emergency status, they can follow the act of civil disobedience and refuse to treat them, he noted. The statement came after some medical personnel declined to treat police officers who were injured during the clash with the PAD protesters in different areas of Bangkok on Tuesday because they disagreed with the use of force against the public by the

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131275

=========================================================

I hope cmsally can send her physician and medical research and medical school contacts new emails to clarify the situation.

[AlKing]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless police who stood up and fight the tyranny mop. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE TO PAD!"

PS. Please do not sue me on copyright.

No, I am not gonna sue you or anything, but it is obvious that you and I are quite different in thinking.

Thanks. This just show that both views, even though they are opposite, are welcome here. That how ThaiVisa live in peace. Not like the 2 (or more) groups that are fighting on the streets.

[mdechgan]

BINGO!... and I am just as guilty as others for jumping the gun myself on this inaccurate reporting. Apparently this is yet another large element of "Lost in Translation".... as the physician in this case did not issue a blanket, out and out refusal to treat police. To corroborate the translation I've just received comes this breaking news...

Medical Council: Physicians can refuse treating "non-emergency" patients

Physicians have the right not to treat patients and their refusal is not deemed unethical, according to Medical Council of Thailand President Somsak Lolekha. However, he said the patients must not be in emergency cases, and if the cases are in emergency status, physicians must perform without bias. Article 43 of the constitution clearly states that if physicians are not comfortable in treating patients who are not in emergency status, they can follow the act of civil disobedience and refuse to treat them, he noted. The statement came after some medical personnel declined to treat police officers who were injured during the clash with the PAD protesters in different areas of Bangkok on Tuesday because they disagreed with the use of force against the public by the

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131275

=========================================================

I hope cmsally can send her physician and medical research and medical school contacts new emails to clarify the situation.

I agree. In the U.S. most physicians will refuse to treat a non-emergency because of fear of malpractice lawsuits and litigation.

[sriracha john]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny mop. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE TO PAD!"

PS. Please do not sue me on copyright.

No, I am not gonna sue you or anything, but it is obvious that you and I are quite different in thinking.

Golf... the Thaivisa Champion of Understatement!

Good to see you posting again, as always.

Just wish it was under more desirable conditions... but perhaps one day.

[mdechgan]

Jury still out on reasons for many injuries

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

Published on October 9, 2008

The heavy casualties from Tuesday's crackdown on protesters beg the question how could a non-lethal crowd-control agent lead to eight victims losing their limps. One woman died from chest injuries and one man died from a car explosion....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...p;keyword=avudh

Well fingers and toes are considered limbs.

I think most of the damage is from the actual velocity and impact of the canisters and smoke bombs to flesh.

Did anyone see on tv two night ago how the police fired their weapons?

I saw in one scene a police officer in black anti riot suits fire a weapon or canister at a fairly low angle almost horizontally. One could clearly see the sparks flying out of the barrel. However I don't think the lethal range shouln't be anymore than 100 meters.

[jayjayjayjay]

Jury still out on reasons for many injuries

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

Published on October 9, 2008

The heavy casualties from Tuesday's crackdown on protesters beg the question how could a non-lethal crowd-control agent lead to eight victims losing their limps. One woman died from chest injuries and one man died from a car explosion....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...p;keyword=avudh

Exactly..................... the jury is still out........ so wait for a neutral source to study each case. Hersay is just that! We know one guy was at least an amputee. This was the picture that ended up on international news pages. Fortunately most western news services require censoring of these types of images. Without them there shocking. The guy sitting there with blood comming out of his leg shocked everyone to the core. This creates emotion, sympathy and empathy from any viewer(myself included). But, if this guy has self mutilated (and I am not saying he has until there is independant reports) then this is the worse kind of propaganda possible. We are heading into Hitler type territory with PAD.

If this does turn out to be propaganda by an amputee, Thailand is firmly set as the laughing stock of the world aka, Samak downed by cooking show(maybe the guy can get a job with Samak on his next cooking show!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Edited October 9, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[sylviex]

... as long as this story isn't really clear, we should take it with a pinch of salt.

However, this applies to most of the "information" we are receiving, limited as it is.

[Moonrakers]

Jury still out on reasons for many injuries

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

Published on October 9, 2008

The heavy casualties from Tuesday's crackdown on protesters beg the question how could a non-lethal crowd-control agent lead to eight victims losing their limps. One woman died from chest injuries and one man died from a car explosion....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...p;keyword=avudh

Well fingers and toes are considered limbs.

I think most of the damage is from the actual velocity and impact of the canisters and smoke bombs to flesh.

Did anyone see on tv two night ago how the police fired their weapons?

I saw in one scene a police officer in black anti riot suits fire a weapon or canister at a fairly low angle almost horizontally. One could clearly see the sparks flying out of the barrel. However I don't think the lethal range shouln't be anymore than 100 meters.

No, they are not.

[Plus]

if this guy has self mutilated...

What's the smiley for speechless?

[AlKing]

I am not trying to be sarcastic here. Where do you draw the line between Emergency or non-Emergency. Say for an example. Take the guy for have loss his leg. But I think he is not life threatening. He will survive even if his treatment is delay by say half and hour, the time taken for him to be transfer from Chula Hospital to Police Hospital 2 block down the road.

Please, I am not rude here or disrespect the injured. Please do not attack me personally. I just want to make a point. Where to you draw the line between Emergency or non-Emergency.

In all cases, the refusing doctor can claim that: “In my professional opinion, at the time of the incident, I deemed the situation non-Emergency. What happens after he/she left is beyond my control”.

[TAWP]

I'm sorry, but everyone getting hit by tear gas and smoke grenades and then cries about it is an idiot. In every European country, police will use much stronger force and tear gas, much sooner, to get rid of protests like these. These protests have been going on for months and the government has done nothing until now, but this will go on for years if nothing is done.

No, it wouldn't be worse in an European country. Apart from south-eastern if would by all means be less violent from the police's side. In fact, in a recent demonstration in my home country the police did diddly squat as the leftist rabble torn through the streets, smashed windows and assaulted people and called it a success since it didn't became worse damage to the city...

[mdechgan]

Jury still out on reasons for many injuries

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

Published on October 9, 2008

The heavy casualties from Tuesday's crackdown on protesters beg the question how could a non-lethal crowd-control agent lead to eight victims losing their limps. One woman died from chest injuries and one man died from a car explosion....

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...p;keyword=avudh

Well fingers and toes are considered limbs.

I think most of the damage is from the actual velocity and impact of the canisters and smoke bombs to flesh.

Did anyone see on tv two night ago how the police fired their weapons?

I saw in one scene a police officer in black anti riot suits fire a weapon or canister at a fairly low angle almost horizontally. One could clearly see the sparks flying out of the barrel. However I don't think the lethal range shouln't be anymore than 100 meters.

No, they are not.

If its jointed, prehensile and an appendage of the human body its a limb.

Your definition might mean part of a limb. But you wouldn't be too happy if you lost your most of your toes and fingers. Statistically if all toes or fingers are lost on a limb its pretty much a lost limb. Half a pinky ot toe might not be. But a toe or finger is part of the human body.

Edited October 9, 2008 by mdechgan

[Golf]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny mop. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE TO PAD!"

PS. Please do not sue me on copyright.

No, I am not gonna sue you or anything, but it is obvious that you and I are quite different in thinking.

Golf... the Thaivisa Champion of Understatement!

Good to see you posting again, as always.

Just wish it was under more desirable conditions... but perhaps one day.

Thanks, sriracha john! The situation calls me to post I think most Thais will do the same. On October 7-8, 2008, a lot of people have lost their faith to their own country, but not me. I am honestly think there is a way, and that way is not easy to accomplish. The "New Thai political system" must be born, otherwise we will live in the dark for ages. I am serious! I am a man who have seem too much bloodshed, too much violence, and too much shameless, subhuman politicians who can do anything and everything for powers and money. I've had it! 75 years of Thai democracy and every time we are back to square one. What is the meaning of this? It means the system is not working. We have to change to a better, less bias, less patronized society.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Golf

[sjaak327]

How so? So far we have had 2 or 3 illegitimate "democratically elected" governments or attempt at them recently ... with no democracy present ... The last Junta moved us closer to democracy, but the Thaksinistas screwed that up again ....

No the last Junta didn't move Thailand closer to democracy, it was even telling why, only a month before elections, they coup was necessary in the first place.

Of course you and I both know why, because there wasn't a chance that Thaksin would loose these elections.

If the PAD are serious about their new politics, there is only one thing they could do, run for elections and gather enough support to be a political force. That's the way you get things done, not trying to initiate civil unrest and a militairy coup.

[clausewitz]

If its jointed, prehensile and an appendage of the human body its a limb.

Your definition might mean part of a limb. But you wouldn't be too happy if you lost your most of your toes and fingers. Statistically if all toes or fingers are lost on a limb its pretty much a lost limb. Half a pinky ot toe might not be. But a toe or finger is part of the human 32 parts to be complete.

Umm, you are not from an English speaking country are you?

[mdechgan]

Umm, you are not from an English speaking country are you?

What does this statement mean? Are you implying or making fun of me or something?

Please tell me your fingers and toes aren't jointed, isn't used to claw or grasp or climb, and isn't connected to your body.

Edited October 9, 2008 by mdechgan

[jdinasia]

How so? So far we have had 2 or 3 illegitimate "democratically elected" governments or attempt at them recently ... with no democracy present ... The last Junta moved us closer to democracy, but the Thaksinistas screwed that up again ....

No the last Junta didn't move Thailand closer to democracy, it was even telling why, only a month before elections, they coup was necessary in the first place.

Of course you and I both know why, because there wasn't a chance that Thaksin would loose these elections.

If the PAD are serious about their new politics, there is only one thing they could do, run for elections and gather enough support to be a political force. That's the way you get things done, not trying to initiate civil unrest and a militairy coup.

sorry but your understanding of democracy is obviously limited. there are other ways to participate and exercising your right to protest that which is unjust is one of them.

let the politicians run for office and let the people standing up to be heard do their thing!

you really need to read and experience a bit more sjaak

[cmsally]

One wonders if the army came out using excessive force and there were casualties, whether any hospitals or medics would refuse treatment to them whether life threatening or not.

If we are to be faced with army intervention then better watch carefully. But I think they would be more uncomfortable in refusing treatment, somehow.

[sjaak327]

Well maybe my knowledge is limited, but surely running for office and gathering enough support to me seems like a much better way to get things done then doing it this way.

Nowhere did I state that they don't have the right to protest, but not being in power, they can easily be ignored, sure the government can get in dialogue with them, but there are no real obligations. By running for office and gathering enough seats in parlement, they would not be easily ignored anymore.

[Moonrakers]

Umm, you are not from an English speaking country are you?

What does this statement mean? Are you implying or making fun of me or something?

Please tell me your fingers and toes aren't jointed, isn't used to claw or grasp or climb, and isn't connected to your body.

Definition of Limb

Limb: The arm or leg.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4162

Lets get back on subject now shall we.

[jayjayjayjay]

if this guy has self mutilated...

What's the smiley for speechless?

One with thin glasses hiding thin chinese slits for eyes and has a bandana around his neck....hint of a yellow shirt collar.

Edited October 9, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[Ricardo]

I saw the video of the Pick-up truck that ran over the policemen. There were more than just ONE policeman on the ground. The pickup truck - after ramming the cops down like in Grand Theft Auto, backed up and ran over an obviously dazed and injured policeman. Now, I would call that attempted murder and premeditated at that...

There are many photo's of PAD followers beating police, apparently even ran cars over them.

Cars plural ? The incident yesterday was one car only. It was initially claimed to have injured a dozen police, later reports said just one was injured, perhaps it may eventually turn out to be just an innocent traffic-accident. Who knows ?

Thanks for the reply, toybits.

It was fortunate that the whole incident was filmed, and confirms that only one vehicle was involved, that was one of the claims (cars - plural) by sjaak327 which I was querying.

Hopefully the driver was detained, and their motivation can be determined, when the case comes to court. They must be crazy, to imagine that actions like this solve anything, hope that the officers recover OK.