Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[jdinasia]

if this guy has self mutilated...

What's the smiley for speechless?

One with thin glasses hiding thin chinese slits for eyes and has a bandana around his neck....hint of a yellow shirt collar.

more racism?

[jayjayjayjay]

Thanks, sriracha john! The situation calls me to post I think most Thais will do the same. On October 7-8, 2008, a lot of people have lost their faith to their own country, but not me. I am honestly think there is a way, and that way is not easy to accomplish. The "New Thai political system" must be born, otherwise we will live in the dark for ages. I am serious! I am a man who have seem too much bloodshed, too much violence, and too much shameless, subhuman politicians who can do anything and everything for powers and money. I've had it! 75 years of Thai democracy and every time we are back to square one. What is the meaning of this? It means the system is not working. We have to change to a better, less bias, less patronized society.

Golf, I truely do not think it is possible at the present time. Thailand has not and will never have a true democracy, or in the forseeable future(unless something changes). It has not been 75 years of democracy as you mentioned. The reason true democracy hasn't existed can not be published here. The reason true democracy will not exist in the forseeable future can not be published here. That's why Sonthi L and his crowd need to shut up and go home. Let the elected government work under their mandate and be accountable by the opposition in parliment. Not by an unruley crowd on the streets. Do you want true democracy? How can it happen?

[sylviex]

When I read that "about 500 doctors and health workers on Thursday congregated at Chulalongkorn Hospital to march to the headquarters of Royal Thai Police to lodge a petition protesting the Tuesday's crowd control operations which turned violence", I wonder about how politicized some workplaces must be.

If your boss is strongly pro or anti PAD, I'd imagine it could be quite difficult not to follow suit.

On a related issue, personally, I find the medical council's declaration of workers' rights to refuse non-emergency aid as "ethical" to be rather absurd.

[thaihome]

TRT/PPP were elected by people that voted no different then they have been for long time. They voted the way the local big shot told them to. The reason the PPP could not get the majority that the TRT did in previous elections was because many of the local big shots did not align themselves with the PPP. In many cases they started, or revived, their own political parties, which the local people promptly voted for.

The PAD felt that a security force was necessary because many of these people were victims or witnesses to the massacre in October 1976 at Thammasat University when Nawa Phon, Red Gaurs, and Village Scouts "shock troops” went in and started raping the women and generally killing people. There was not going to be a repeat of that under any circumstances. The people were going to defend themselves this time.

In the early stages of most western democracy, there was no one man, one vote. The successful development leading to a one man one vote system followed the rise of a middle class which controlled the government through voting restrictions and appointed representatives. Exactly what the PAD is proposing. In modern day cases where one man one vote democracy has been introduced all at once, all you get is chaos. Look at many African nations (those that still have any semblance of democracy) or most recently Timor. South Africa went suddenly to a one man one vote and look where they are. What the supporters of the PAD movement are wanting is to give Thai democracy a chance to mature, just like western nations did, and not be corrupted by the vote buying or intimidation that have been the hallmark over the last 50 years.

It is very important that before people rush in with any judgment for or against the PAD or the government, that they have done the historical research and understand the context of what is going on. There is way too many threads where people insist on putting this in the context of their own country and experiences and reach the completely wrong conclusion.

TH

Edited October 9, 2008 by thaihome

[sgtpeppers]

If your boss is strongly pro or anti PAD, I'd imagine it could be quite difficult not to follow suit.

or your wife and the rest of the village for that matter.

certainly explains the ramblings of some of the pro Thaksin supporters, who should know better.

Edited October 9, 2008 by sgtpeppers

[jdinasia]

If your boss is strongly pro or anti PAD, I'd imagine it could be quite difficult not to follow suit.

or your wife and the rest of the village for that matter.

certainly explains the ramblings of some of the pro Thaksin supporters, who should know better.

[Golf]

Thanks, sriracha john! The situation calls me to post I think most Thais will do the same. On October 7-8, 2008, a lot of people have lost their faith to their own country, but not me. I am honestly think there is a way, and that way is not easy to accomplish. The "New Thai political system" must be born, otherwise we will live in the dark for ages. I am serious! I am a man who have seem too much bloodshed, too much violence, and too much shameless, subhuman politicians who can do anything and everything for powers and money. I've had it! 75 years of Thai democracy and every time we are back to square one. What is the meaning of this? It means the system is not working. We have to change to a better, less bias, less patronized society.

Golf, I truely do not think it is possible at the present time. Thailand has not and will never have a true democracy, or in the forseeable future(unless something changes). It has not been 75 years of democracy as you mentioned. The reason true democracy hasn't existed can not be published here. The reason true democracy will not exist in the forseeable future can not be published here. That's why Sonthi L and his crowd need to shut up and go home. Let the elected government work under their mandate and be accountable by the opposition in parliment. Not by an unruley crowd on the streets. Do you want true democracy? How can it happen?

I do not wish for the "Perfect System". I wish for a "Better System" where we, the Thai people, can make changes, can make our voices heard, and can prevent corruptions. I think it is possible if all of us are not divided like this. If we find a "common ground" then we can move on as nation. Many of the protesters who are on the streets right now see the danger of letting the "elected government" does its job! What are the rights of the elected government to authorize the police forces, who earn the taxpayer money as their salaries, to shoot on the people with the bullets paid by the very own people they are shooting at? That is why an "unruly crowd" are on the streets.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Golf

[sylviex]

Angkana killed by bomb she carried, say police

By The Nation

Published on October 9, 2008

Following an autopsy report, police suspect 25-year-old Angkana Radapbanyavuth died because of a bomb she was carrying during Tuesday's street conflict, a police deputy spokesman said yesterday.

Pol Maj General Surapol Thuanthong, deputy spokesman of the Royal Thai Police, said, "The autopsy report showed Angkana's left ribs were broken. The injuries could have resulted from holding a bomb with her underarms or in her bag. They were too severe to be caused by police weapons," he said.

[/size]AVM Vichan Piewnum of Ramathibodhi Hospital said forensic examination of the 25-year-old Angkana (also known as Bow), revealed a large severe wound by her left breast, with bleeding in her lungs, heart and stomach. She had died while being transferred to the hospital.

Not sure if this is old news or not. I didn't notice it earlier (from The Nation).

Very sad.

Edited October 9, 2008 by sylviex

[tomo22]

Personnel Questions on this topic?

Everything that is happening here is making me very sad.

Democracy is a word used so often. I cannot see Please correct me if you can one democracy in the world that works.

I have read through a number of posts not all and most are PAD or PPP TRT Thakskin related.

I just ask some straight forward questions.

1 This government elected and seen in the International climate as being so is what a coalition?

3 An elected government by the People?

4 Some posts have stated right or wrong that the coalition partners said that would not side

With PPP TRT or Thaksin but then do the opposite when they have received the vote?

5 The Police in Thailand are Corrupt or not.

6 The Courts in Thailand Corrupt or Not.

7 Was there a referendum in Thailand for the last constitution?

8 Someone who has broken the laws of a Country Wife Children should the present government be in open dialogue with these people.

9 There are a large number of Isan people who live just for their Children Old Buddhist and Christian beliefs?

10 Chinese run the country or they have been here Chinese Thais longer than America was even conceived?

11 I hope someone on Thai Visa Can think of a way of breaking this into to topics I.E. News and comments.

I am just asking Questions and mean no offense to anyone.

Deaths carnage etc is not a way forward from whichever side it is started from.

My closing part of this post is. If people are seen to be corrupt and the Justice system here seems to be the same then as a person who does not want to see the country fall apart.

Let’s see a proper international Court set up to deal with these things.

Mind you a few western leaders and there cohorts would also have to appear.

If you read thank you.

Yes before you start uneducated westerner with several degrees. But they are all in the Sciences.

Buy for now hope someone can stop this destroying the country.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

@Golf

Your post is one of the best i have read so far. Unfortunately, there is one large problem - "The Thai People" will likely never stand united and say "No", simply because - they do not care!

I experience this first hand on a daily basis - they do not watch news as long as another channel shows soaps, they do not read newspapers as long as there are comic books - and they vote for whoever pays more per individual vote.

The reason being that for most Thai people, nothing changes regardless who is in the government - something even i as a foreigner experienced myself, to be honest, under the guy before Thaksin, then Thaksin, then the military and now this current monkey house - nothing whatsoever has changed, except for the visa regulations that keep getting stricter.

A selected few Thai people may be "in the know" - business people, investors, generally "those with money". And they, just like the members of the government itself, also will not care for the person standing beside them - they only think about their own bank accounts. Sad, but very true.

I myself am for a change of this system, including that kind of government which only serves itself - regardless if it be through mob power (a la PAD), a military coup, democratic (WITHOUT vote-buying!!) election, re-announcement of absolute monarchy or communist revolution. As long as *something* is done to SERVE THE PEOPLE for a change........ i am "pro".

Currently, i am fully behind the PAD yet still condemning the use of violence in EITHER camp.

My idea: Government steps down, the opposition and PAD may work together to appoint a caretaker government under the condition that new general elections have to follow within 6 months (to allow all parties to prepare). This election will need to be supervised VERY closely to ensure NOBODY pays voters, people found doing so will immediately have their party banned from the election. PPP will be banned from a start, any PPP member will be banned from politics for life to prevent another resurrection of TRT. After the election PAD, having done their job, are to disband and their leaders will have to "face the music" for crimes committed.

And have a constitution written BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE which is NOT to be changed again by ANY party or individual.

Best regards......

Thanh

[jdinasia]

sorry Tomo --- but I can't make out what you are trying to say/ask

[Samuian]

.....edit.... This election will need to be supervised VERY closely to ensure NOBODY pays voters, people found doing so will immediately have their party banned from the election. PPP will be banned from a start, any PPP member will be banned from politics for life to prevent another resurrection of TRT. After the election PAD, having done their job, are to disband and their leaders will have to "face the music" for crimes committed.

And have a constitution written BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE which is NOT to be changed again by ANY party or individual.

Best regards......

Thanh

not bad, but then certain people will insist that these election haven't been free, nor democratic!

a follow up party of the PPP has been founded already!

there need to be stronger, better measures, with an blink of they eye the mob will be back through some magic back-door-star-gate!

Ban all the "bad apples"?

then they will send their children, uncles, aunts, nephews... to government..

there wont be no easy solution I am afraid!

[Bangyai]

Incidentally, last year's Surayud/junta rule was like a golden age comparing to the mess this government has created. The SET is in 400s, about a 30% loss, the violence, the strikes, the unrelenting political turmoil, and, most importantly, no sign of hope unless the government steps down.

What rot! The existing government and the Samak gov that preceeded it has worked with the economy inside the world stage. Are you going to be so ridiculous as to claim Thailand (as it may have ignited in 1997) is responsible for Leahman Brothers/AIG's fall. Maybe somewhere there you can accuse Thaksin of creating Credit Swaps!

Polictical turmoil has be created by who.......... PAD......... that vermently oppose anyone upcountry having a say in politics. Strikes, yes, SRT, lead by PAD core membership! Airports closed in the South... by PAD or should we say, Democrate party members, canvasers etc. Why were Khon Kaen, Udon Thai, Ubon's, Chiangmai's, Lampang's airports not closed!!!!!!!!! Get a grip on reality boy! The gov does not have to step down because you say so or PAD says so..... deal with it!

The turmoil was created by the move to change the constitution.

Surayud government was the best I have seen since Chuan.

Actually, I thought that under article 291 of the current constitution it is perfectly legal to change or alter it providing 50,000 signatures have been collected expressing a desire to do so ? Perhaps the govournment should have done that first. Talking of constitutions, on who's authority was the previous constitution done away with ?

[tomo22]

sorry Tomo --- but I can't make out what you are trying to say/ask

There are a number of Questions that have straight forward answers.

Can someone here answer them without going one side or the other?

Straight forward really out of English business language straight to the point no emotion involved.

Each point needs a reply.

Yes and news needs to be separated from some of the responses.

[Bangyai]

Right now peaceful negotiation is next to impossible. All of the systems are not functional and it seems we, Thai people, are at the dead end. I don't want to go to any details, but would like to say this, "We must change, otherwise we cannot survive the collapse of Thailand as a nation." I still want to see Thailand on the map. I want to tell my son about the great country I and he were born. I want to tell my son about countless unnamed heroes who stood up and fight the tyranny governments. In the end, Thai people will stand up and say, "NO MORE!"

I whole heartedly agree. Everybody would like to see change and hopefully one day the silent majority will stand up and say " NO MORE !" Thats why so many people are distrustfull of the PAD. The success of their struggle would represent a change for the worse, a turning back of the clock. As professor Prateep Ung-songtham Hata, current leader of The Confederation for Democracy said of the PAD:

" This group of people want to protect the interests of their own cliques so that they can be powerful politically, by using the monarchy as their tool to overthrow the govournment "

[animatic]

08:49:38']http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2008/post-49066-1223516550.jpg[/img]

A rather suspicious gentleman firing a gun from inside the walls of Dusit Zoo in the general direction of protesters/police officers, supposedly. Front page of Matichon today.

I was pretty sure eventually a few characters like this would be exposed.

Another intersted party IS stirring the pot and not for the good of it.

Edited October 9, 2008 by animatic

[frodo]

Doctors confirm tear gas not cause of casualties of clashes

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

The severe wounds to the bodies of hospitalised victims of Tuesday's street clashes may not have been caused by tear gas canisters but by hot and hard objects that impacted with very fast speed, according to an accident expert...Dr Piyanun Mathuramon of Ramathibodi Hospital said he examined the dead body of Angkana " Bo" Radabpanyawoot who was killed while walking to the Royal Plaza with her mother and younger sister. He found a chemical compound like carbon on her body but no fragments of metal or plastic on her body.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/09...al_30085618.php

What a dam_n shame this happened. I can see why the medical profession is turning their back on those with non-emergency complaints. There was no need for this, likewise, there was no need for he police to refuse medical assistance to others by attacking ambulances and medical personal. The current government can bandstand all they want about their biased investigations, the truth is, those who did this will never be brought to justice. Just think, the police department continues to blame her...

RIP Bo

Edited October 9, 2008 by frodo

[animatic]

Could you please post some of them as there a number of foreign newspaper articles posted from yesterday that DON'T report as you say.

Why would I take the time and the effort to copy them here and risk a copyright infringement?

Posting news is the entire basis for the News Clippings Forum

You wouldn't believe anything of it anyway.

Won't know that if you don't post any

If you are really interested in the foreign newspapers, go look for yourself after opening your eyes to the obvious.

I have... and have posted more than a few myself to what foreign newspapers have said...and they seem to contradict what your contention is.

btw...I don't think the International Court issues condoms...

btw... English is not my primary language.

And even people whose primary language is English makes a lot of grammatical errors as can be seen on this ad other threads.

I wasn't sure what you meant... condom is, afterall, a word. Misspellings I overlook.

btw...good little off-topic, anti-American bashing rant you got going there...

Off-Topic?

No, Just posting an example to conveying what I mean.

Anti-American bashing?

If you call "a farce" the fact where a American citizen murders his wife and her "lover", is chased by the police in a run-away car scene that makes most movies look like "snowwhite" and is declared NOT-GUILTY by the Courts, then I admit to be guilty as charged.

btw...every year, a good book is published by the USA about these "farces".

wonderful... post about it on unitedstatesofamericavisa.com/forum

For the record :

I have yet to meet another American who thinks OJ was Not Guilty.

Even the majority of his jury admits that they screwed up big time.

Johnny Cochran gets high marks for legal strategy and low morals.

He got OJ of, but just barely. He still lost the huge civil suit.

Now we see 13 years TO THE DAY later he gets convicted

and with life in prison possible. And only about 5 people are crying for him.

So really get off it, lawyers do their job and juries don't always get it right ANYWHERE.

Edited October 9, 2008 by animatic

[h90]

Doctors confirm tear gas not cause of casualties of clashes

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

The severe wounds to the bodies of hospitalised victims of Tuesday's street clashes may not have been caused by tear gas canisters but by hot and hard objects that impacted with very fast speed, according to an accident expert...Dr Piyanun Mathuramon of Ramathibodi Hospital said he examined the dead body of Angkana " Bo" Radabpanyawoot who was killed while walking to the Royal Plaza with her mother and younger sister. He found a chemical compound like carbon on her body but no fragments of metal or plastic on her body.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/09...al_30085618.php

What a dam_n shame this happened. I can see why the medical profession is turning their back on those with non-emergency complaints. There was no need for this, likewise, there was no need for he police to refuse medical assistance to others by attacking ambulances and medical personal. The current government can bandstand all they want about their biased investigations, the truth is, those who did this will never be brought to justice. Just think, the police department continues to blame her...

RIP Bo

My wife knew her a little bit. Not more than smile to each other or say hello......She told...nice lovely girl who like to dance at PAD, for sure not aggressive.

the claim from the police that she carried a bomb is a stupid lie.

[Splatter]

Doctors confirm tear gas not cause of casualties of clashes

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

The severe wounds to the bodies of hospitalised victims of Tuesday's street clashes may not have been caused by tear gas canisters but by hot and hard objects that impacted with very fast speed, according to an accident expert...Dr Piyanun Mathuramon of Ramathibodi Hospital said he examined the dead body of Angkana " Bo" Radabpanyawoot who was killed while walking to the Royal Plaza with her mother and younger sister. He found a chemical compound like carbon on her body but no fragments of metal or plastic on her body.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/09...al_30085618.php

What a dam_n shame this happened. I can see why the medical profession is turning their back on those with non-emergency complaints. There was no need for this, likewise, there was no need for he police to refuse medical assistance to others by attacking ambulances and medical personal. The current government can bandstand all they want about their biased investigations, the truth is, those who did this will never be brought to justice. Just think, the police department continues to blame her...

RIP Bo

My wife knew her a little bit. Not more than smile to each other or say hello......She told...nice lovely girl who like to dance at PAD, for sure not aggressive.

the claim from the police that she carried a bomb is a stupid lie.

My wishes to her friends and family.

Another "non truth"... and my apologies if the forum has seen this before...

Oct 08, 2008

(BangkokPost.com) - Police insisted that they only use teargas to disperse the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters on Tuesday.

Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said no other lethal force was used to disperse the crowd.

"I can confirm you that police used teargas only," he said in a morning television interview.

Whereas photographs here suggest something very different.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/M16NXIP0a5M...kok/fzGShwhJx5I

[jdinasia]

For the record :

I have yet to meet another American who thinks OJ was Not Guilty.

..........

who cares? OJ has never been to Thailand to the best of my knowledge ........ this isn't about the USA

edit to place the quote correctly

Edited October 9, 2008 by jdinasia

[Seizhin]

My wife knew her a little bit. Not more than smile to each other or say hello......She told...nice lovely girl who like to dance at PAD, for sure not aggressive.

the claim from the police that she carried a bomb is a stupid lie.

Heard of this, and I'm sorry to hear about it.

I'm also on a personal thought that she'll never carry a bomb with her, hopefully her family is alright and I hope we'll all find the truth of her death!

[Samuian]

....edit....

the claim from the police that she carried a bomb is a stupid lie.

As sad as it is... my condolences to the family and friend!

Is like the war on drugs...

"How did this innocent man got shot?"

:"Well you know he walked into the bullet which discharged itself accidentally, it was an honest mistake!"

this fact makes it all even more sad!

[Seizhin]

My wishes to her friends and family.

Another "non truth"... and my apologies if the forum has seen this before...

Oct 08, 2008

(BangkokPost.com) - Police insisted that they only use teargas to disperse the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters on Tuesday.

Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said no other lethal force was used to disperse the crowd.

"I can confirm you that police used teargas only," he said in a morning television interview.

Whereas photographs here suggest something very different.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/M16NXIP0a5M...kok/fzGShwhJx5I

I saw the weapon on the previous posts before, but some other users who claims to know what it is called it as a Shotgun with a Rubber Bullet or something around that.

Any conformation?

[jdinasia]

It is a pump-action shotgun ... you cannot tell what the ammunition is

[animatic]

For the record :

I have yet to meet another American who thinks OJ was Not Guilty.

..........

who cares? OJ has never been to Thailand to the best of my knowledge ........ this isn't about the USA

edit to place the quote correctly

I believe he was here many years ago.

But it was in context of the international court of justice vs american court system

and slagging americans over OJ. A relevent rebuttle to more BS.

[animatic]

Doctors confirm tear gas not cause of casualties of clashes

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

The severe wounds to the bodies of hospitalised victims of Tuesday's street clashes may not have been caused by tear gas canisters but by hot and hard objects that impacted with very fast speed, according to an accident expert...Dr Piyanun Mathuramon of Ramathibodi Hospital said he examined the dead body of Angkana " Bo" Radabpanyawoot who was killed while walking to the Royal Plaza with her mother and younger sister. He found a chemical compound like carbon on her body but no fragments of metal or plastic on her body.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/10/09...al_30085618.php

What a dam_n shame this happened. I can see why the medical profession is turning their back on those with non-emergency complaints. There was no need for this, likewise, there was no need for he police to refuse medical assistance to others by attacking ambulances and medical personal. The current government can bandstand all they want about their biased investigations, the truth is, those who did this will never be brought to justice. Just think, the police department continues to blame her...

RIP Bo

My wife knew her a little bit. Not more than smile to each other or say hello......She told...nice lovely girl who like to dance at PAD, for sure not aggressive.

the claim from the police that she carried a bomb is a stupid lie.

My condolences also to the young lady's family and H90's wife.

One look at that face and I was sure no bomb entered the picture by her doing.

The police general's clutching at straws for deflecting blame.

Sad and pathetic.

[Splatter]

It is a pump-action shotgun ... you cannot tell what the ammunition is

...I'm presuming it doesn't take tear gas cannisters. Or am I wrong there?

[coalminer]

if this guy has self mutilated...

A few years ago, while walking to Chatujak market, I saw a minibus dropping off a bunch of "handicapped" people.

They were all good dressed and had artificial limbs where once used to be a real limb.

In a few minutes time, they changed from the well dressed people to most monstruoes creatures you could think off.

Crawling over the street with their begging bucket and expose open infected wounds.

A few months later, a television program was showing the same beggars and how they turned themselves in a wink of an eye from a "normal" person to a freak.

I know personally a beggar a few meters away from my house who has open infected wounds (self inflicted) and keeps them open to look more helpless.

I don't say that the persons on these pictures are also self-inflicting their wounds, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[TAWP]

My wishes to her friends and family.

Another "non truth"... and my apologies if the forum has seen this before...

Oct 08, 2008

(BangkokPost.com) - Police insisted that they only use teargas to disperse the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters on Tuesday.

Deputy Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Amnuay Nimmano said no other lethal force was used to disperse the crowd.

"I can confirm you that police used teargas only," he said in a morning television interview.

Whereas photographs here suggest something very different.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/M16NXIP0a5M...kok/fzGShwhJx5I

I saw the weapon on the previous posts before, but some other users who claims to know what it is called it as a Shotgun with a Rubber Bullet or something around that.

Any conformation?

You cannot shoot rubber bullets with a shotgun.

The equalent on the less-lethal range that you exclusively use shotguns for are bean-bags.

However they have an effective range of up to 30m basically, before both impact in J and accuracy is so out the window that it is of little point to use it.

It's primarly used in CC, break-ins in known hot houses and so on.

From the picture they don't look to be close to any people (i.e. it is not under 30m).

So either improper use or, more likely, using lethal ammo.