Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[animatic]

The original article has now been expanded...

Salang revives threat

Ex-Deputy Police Chief to 'retake Govt House' after religious service on Wednesday

Police General Salang Bunnag yesterday revived his threat to "retake" Government House from the anti-government protesters, saying that his planned operation would begin after a religious ceremony to be held nearby on Wednesday.................

"A bloodbath would be inevitable, and the PAD leaders have no way to control hundreds of thousands of PAD members," he said..........

He said members of the pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) would use petrol bombs against tanks and military vehicles taking part in a coup attempt........

Speaking on a pro-government radio programme, he also named allies of the DAAD, especially the June 24 Movement and Saturday People Against Dictatorship, who he said would help in the anti-coup operations. He also said many leaders of former communist guerrillas had pledged their support for the DAAD because they detested Thai soldiers.

- The Nation / 2008-10-19

Communist guerrilla leaders.... DAAD......Movement against dictators....

Bloodbath.... Petrol bombs..... after a religious ceremony.....

Doesn't this all sound like madness coupled together...

who in their RIGHT MINDS would willingly unleash this staggering stupidity...?

Khattiya said UDD fighters had been approached by the government and the police to help block PAD protesters on Oct 7 and Oct 13.

If so, what ever remains of government legitimacy is erased.

But I doubt the cabinet or Somchai ever actually asked for DAAD to defend them.

And when he says 'the government',

it could also mean one junior PPP MP asked for them to move out.

Edited October 19, 2008 by animatic

[Sunderland]

Religious ceremony followed by violence ... typical charade common all over the world.

So many people around the world just use religion to ease their conscience and try and confuse the masses.

The number of lunatics is increasing by the day, although it looks like the majority of Bangkokians are more preoccupied with other things like shopping and sleeping.

[hammered]

The PPP use the tactic of bussing in people for a royal event and then using them for a politcal event the next day. That was the way it was done in the first assault on the PAD when police moved aside to let the bussed in mob march 5 km to assault the PAD.

Salang and Sae Daeng are extremely nasty people and if let off the hook will turn this even mor out of control than it was before. It clearly seems the governmetn do not intend to resign and return the power to the elected body to select a new government.

[animatic]

The PPP use the tactic of bussing in people for a royal event and then using them for a politcal event the next day. That was the way it was done in the first assault on the PAD when police moved aside to let the bussed in mob march 5 km to assault the PAD.

Salang and Sae Daeng are extremely nasty people and if let off the hook will turn this even mor out of control than it was before. It clearly seems the government do not intend to resign and return the power to the elected body to select a new government.

Exactly

Same as letting DAAD off it's leash to get a SoE.

Now it's a bigger attack dog and DAAD.

And quite accurate about the ELECTED body and the 'Government'

being two entirely different things. 'Government Cabinets' can fall once a month,

and STILL not be affecting the elected body, and the votes that elected them.

But the people can let those 'elected people' know regularly that the

'elected body appointed government coalition' is not meeting expectations.

They shouild be presured until they appoint a cabinet and PM that DO meet

reasonable expectations for doing the job, and the greatest good for the people.

And not for their London paymaster first, and their own PARTY interests first.

Edited October 19, 2008 by animatic

[hammered]

The PPP use the tactic of bussing in people for a royal event and then using them for a politcal event the next day. That was the way it was done in the first assault on the PAD when police moved aside to let the bussed in mob march 5 km to assault the PAD.

Salang and Sae Daeng are extremely nasty people and if let off the hook will turn this even mor out of control than it was before. It clearly seems the government do not intend to resign and return the power to the elected body to select a new government.

Exactly

Same as letting DAAD off it's leash to get a SoE.

Now it's a bigger attack dog and DAAD.

And quite acurate about the ELECTED body and the 'government'

being two entirely different things.

That difference is exactly what the uber-Thaksinistas dont want people to see. There is also a push for a truly neutral PM to resolve issues but it is very unlikely that the PPP hierarchy will allow this.

Releasing the funds for the street attacks has already happened according to reports. It is likely that the PPP now actually favour a coup against them and probably a nasty one. If Salang attacks on Wednesday a coup is almost inevitable and PPP are aware of this. There is still time for games like little Somchai calling on Salang not to do it in real politcal pantomime to build on his meeting the troops yesterday and saying he would have a chat with bro-in-laws best mate Hun Sen who created a nicely timed diversion after the funeral.

This wont get any better but at least we are seeing the true nature of the power struggle and it is nothing to do with poor people or democracy or anything quaint like that.

[sriracha john]

Meanwhile, Army Major-General Khattiya Sawasdiphol said he would mobilise government supporters

Khattiya Sawasdiphol (from his website)

[h90]

The PPP use the tactic of bussing in people for a royal event and then using them for a politcal event the next day. That was the way it was done in the first assault on the PAD when police moved aside to let the bussed in mob march 5 km to assault the PAD.

Salang and Sae Daeng are extremely nasty people and if let off the hook will turn this even mor out of control than it was before. It clearly seems the government do not intend to resign and return the power to the elected body to select a new government.

Exactly

Same as letting DAAD off it's leash to get a SoE.

Now it's a bigger attack dog and DAAD.

And quite acurate about the ELECTED body and the 'government'

being two entirely different things.

That difference is exactly what the uber-Thaksinistas dont want people to see. There is also a push for a truly neutral PM to resolve issues but it is very unlikely that the PPP hierarchy will allow this.

Releasing the funds for the street attacks has already happened according to reports. It is likely that the PPP now actually favour a coup against them and probably a nasty one. If Salang attacks on Wednesday a coup is almost inevitable and PPP are aware of this. There is still time for games like little Somchai calling on Salang not to do it in real politcal pantomime to build on his meeting the troops yesterday and saying he would have a chat with bro-in-laws best mate Hun Sen who created a nicely timed diversion after the funeral.

This wont get any better but at least we are seeing the true nature of the power struggle and it is nothing to do with poor people or democracy or anything quaint like that.

I don't think it will be nasty. If tanks are moving the courage of the paid mob will be zero. The few hardcore don't want to die as well and won't be enough. While the block one street the army goes another one. As well they'll block these people from moving and take the leaders if possible. Of course unless a bigger part of the army supports Thaksin.

[WAERTH]

Hello John can you PM me a link to his website?

Walter

[sriracha john]

Hello John can you PM me a link to his website?

Walter

sorry, I missed including it... for everyone

http://www.sae-dang.com/

[animatic]

My browser doesn't like his site.

But these two images speak more than all the sanscrit he has to say.

Didn't his training officer say NEVER point a gun at someone

unless you intend on shooting them.

So he points at EVERYBODY checking his site out. Oooh that's so, uh, uh... tasteful.

[sriracha john]

Khattiya Sawasdiphol (from his website)

http://www.sae-dang.com/

My browser doesn't like his site.

But these two images speak more than all the sanscrit he has to say.

Didn't his training officer say NEVER point a gun at someone

unless you intend on shooting them.

So he points at EVERYBODY checking his site out. Oooh that's so, uh, uh... tasteful.

but by God, he's gonna do so defending the Democracy Monument....

and going between that one and this one with children dolls...

results in what I believe the correct and proper clinical terminology to describe this man is..... "fruitcake".....

and a heavily armed one, at that.

Edited October 19, 2008 by sriracha john

[Moonrakers]

Where does this guy stand in the military Hierarchy?

I am not too clued up on military ranks and so what I am getting is does this guy report directly to the PM? If not then who does this guy report to and why the hel_l is he not being ordered to stand down?

[h90]

maybe because a military government is less violent and corrupt than the current one.

This government is anyway not democratic elected.

[animatic]

And just who do you see wishing for a coup?

No one here that I have noticed.

This is all hypothetical discusion in the EVENT of a coup.

Not wishful thinking.

So... who EXACTLY are YOU calling "Brainwashed Morons"?

Who do you imagine brainwashed these Thai Visa members?

Do you even understand what brainwashing is?

I have taken courses in Psycho-Biology and in the nature of brains functioning.

It's maliability and how it can be changed, and how it resists change.

I can assure you I am not brainwashed by any person or group.

So I see you blame the armed forces as the center of the problem,

rather than avarice of the political classes. If anything the next 'potential' coup

would be brought on by gross and mindless the machinations of the political classes

and their lapdogs of street violence. If it happens, it will likely be to restore order again,

because the politicians screwed the pooch yet again..

Why would ANY of us wish that to happen.

[fidelio]

I feel sorry for you , as obviously you need to look up the definition of a few words in a dictionary .

Let me enligthen you.

Military government = dictatorship/end of democracy .

Democratically elected : from a majority of the people's votes .

Now maybe you don't agree with the majority of people's votes, but you know hwat : this is what democracy is all fuc_king about.

[george]

Here is the video PAD are distributing:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bloody-Octob...ON-file596.html

[Samuian]

Salang, a former deputy police chief, said he would lead more than 1,000 inactive or retired policemen

-The Nation-

Scary, how can this let to be happen?

Suriyasai Katasila, coordinator of the PAD, which spearheaded the protesters who seized Government House on August 26, said yesterday it would be difficult to avoid confrontations and clashes if the ceremony went ahead. "A bloodbath would be inevitable, and the PAD leaders have no way to control hundreds of thousands of PAD members," he said.

He said Salang was merely a nominee used in planned crackdowns on the PAD. "Salang's motive and stance have aroused public suspicion and will enrage the public [should clashes occur.]," he said.

"I do not believe Salang is planning the ceremony for his own purposes; somebody is no doubt pulling strings behind the scenes. Whether it is the prime minister or ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra I would not know,"

Puppet master pushing for full force, I can't believe that this is printed in the media, if this is going to happen on Wednesday I don't know what to believe any more about where this country is going to..... does he get a Platoon of Sandhurst men in next and stages his own coup?

I thought from day one this mans ego is hurting and he is way out of control, ready to just let anything happen!

[fidelio]

I hate Thaksin as much as you do, believe me, but as Bob Marley sang : " Don't let them fool you " .

I'm afraid you 've been fooled and brainwashed beyond rescue.

[plachon]

Aren't we the superior one YH? But even with my "profound ignorance of Thai history" as you so confidently state, I have trouble equating an anti-government people's movement like PAD with its eclectic mix of characters and sympathisers, with a longing for the Sarit era of dictatorship and extreme corruption and cronyism. So, cleverclogs, please explain to me succinctly which PAD leader has ever given any verbal indication of nostaligia for Sarit's style of leadership. Pipob Thongchai or Chamlong Srimuang perhaps? Or are you telling me those ordinary people who are prepared to protest for months on end in the heat and the rain and sacrifice their lives for the fight against the authoritarianism of the Thaksin govt and its proxies are really secret Sarit sympathisers? That they would like a return to a 60's style military dictatorship?

C'mon you know perfectly well that Toxin's War on Drugs was an exact copy of one Sarit launched 4 decades ago and was one that led to the deaths of many communists, communist symathisers, democratic idealists, young students and ordinary innocent people. Khrong Chandrahan........Somchai Neelapaijit. One shot openly in a field, one disappeared on the orders of someone high-up near [at?] the top. Lest they never be forgotten. Your interpretation of Thai history is so skewed that you are now starting to see the victims of state-led violence as the oppressors and vice versa. Get a grip YH!

You don't give the impression of having read much Thai history let alone understanding context, but there are very clear parallels between Sarit's paternalistic democracy and the so called "new Politics" voiced by Sondhi and othe PAD leaders.There's a useful summary of the Sarit/Luang Wichit position in David Wyatt's history which spells out the position very simply.

I didn't have Thaksin's drug wars in mind but you are right to point out similarities to Sarit's summary executions.One wonders incidentally why the drug wars are so low down PAD's list of priorities.The PAD rank and file are a motley bunch from some decent middle class liberals to a disgusting thug like element.However I was specifically referring to the leadership.

And I asked you to be specific in providing evidence of which PAD leaders have shown nostalgia for or a hankering after the Sarit era in word or deed. The close resemblence of Thaksin and Sarit would indicate to my simple mind that they abhor that type of authoritarian leadership and would just have quickly been on the streets against Sarit as they were against Toxin.

You've made a strong accusation against PAD leadership - now back it up with evidence. And pointing to Panlop Pinmanee is insufficient, as someone else pointed out - he is not a PAD leader, for quite sound reasons.

The very fact that you couldn't equate Toxin's War on Drugs and the reversion to blatant nationaism to cover over his violent excesses with the Sarit govt (there are many more parallels that could be drawn as well), shows that you too have a problem understanding context in the current struggles in Thailand against dictatorship and authoritarianism.

Edited October 19, 2008 by plachon

[Bangyai]

well now, those posters didn't stay vertical very long....

Anti-government protesters step on a poster of Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat in Bangkok, Thailand, Friday, Oct. 17, 2008. Thousands of anti-government protesters were marching through the streets of Thailand's capital, calling for the resignation of Somchai.

Associated Press

Looks like the ultimate Thai insult at play here...

Not just shown the bottom of the foot, but getting it right in the face.

We also have that (don't know the english word....that carpet like thing for cleaning your shoes before you enter the house) with the face of Thaksin and his wife.

Have you really ???? Well, if you're into that sort of thing I have some nice toilet paper you might be interested in. On alternate sheets there are pictures of Sondhi and Chamlong. I'm prepared to let you have some at a discount as a kind of souvenier of these troubled times.

[younghusband]

Aren't we the superior one YH? But even with my "profound ignorance of Thai history" as you so confidently state, I have trouble equating an anti-government people's movement like PAD with its eclectic mix of characters and sympathisers, with a longing for the Sarit era of dictatorship and extreme corruption and cronyism. So, cleverclogs, please explain to me succinctly which PAD leader has ever given any verbal indication of nostaligia for Sarit's style of leadership. Pipob Thongchai or Chamlong Srimuang perhaps? Or are you telling me those ordinary people who are prepared to protest for months on end in the heat and the rain and sacrifice their lives for the fight against the authoritarianism of the Thaksin govt and its proxies are really secret Sarit sympathisers? That they would like a return to a 60's style military dictatorship?

C'mon you know perfectly well that Toxin's War on Drugs was an exact copy of one Sarit launched 4 decades ago and was one that led to the deaths of many communists, communist symathisers, democratic idealists, young students and ordinary innocent people. Khrong Chandrahan........Somchai Neelapaijit. One shot openly in a field, one disappeared on the orders of someone high-up near [at?] the top. Lest they never be forgotten. Your interpretation of Thai history is so skewed that you are now starting to see the victims of state-led violence as the oppressors and vice versa. Get a grip YH!

You don't give the impression of having read much Thai history let alone understanding context, but there are very clear parallels between Sarit's paternalistic democracy and the so called "new Politics" voiced by Sondhi and othe PAD leaders.There's a useful summary of the Sarit/Luang Wichit position in David Wyatt's history which spells out the position very simply.

I didn't have Thaksin's drug wars in mind but you are right to point out similarities to Sarit's summary executions.One wonders incidentally why the drug wars are so low down PAD's list of priorities.The PAD rank and file are a motley bunch from some decent middle class liberals to a disgusting thug like element.However I was specifically referring to the leadership.

And I asked you to be specific in providing evidence of which PAD leaders have shown nostalgia for or a hankering after the Sarit era in word or deed. The close resemblence of Thaksin and Sarit would indicate to my simple mind that they abhor that type of authoritarian leadership and would just have quickly been on the streets against Sarit as they were against Toxin.

You've made a strong accusation against PAD leadership - now back it up with evidence. And pointing to Panlop Pinmanee is insufficient, as someone else pointed out - he is not a PAD leader, for quite sound reasons.

The very fact that you couldn't equate Toxin's War on Drugs and the reversion to blatant nationaism to cover over his violent excesses with the Sarit govt (there are many more parallels that could be drawn as well), shows that you too have a problem understanding context in the current struggles in Thailand against dictatorship and authoritarianism.

Since you apparently don't seem interested in Thai history there is limited point in continuing discussion.But in the slightly forlorn hope you might actually want to learn something look at the outline definition of Sondhi's new politics and compare it with Sarit's political (pattiwat) philosophy.There are striking similarities.

[animatic]

I'm afraid you don't read my words properly.

End of story.

[Meerkat]

Here is the video PAD are distributing:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bloody-Octob...ON-file596.html

Thanks for the link George.

From the notes accompanying the file:

This CD was created by the Media Group in conjunction with Manager Online and TOC to show the real fact to the people and the world.

(emphasis my own)

So the CD was created by 3 of the PAD leader's own media organizations. No danger of any editorial bias then I suppose...

[Splatter]

Here is the video PAD are distributing:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bloody-Octob...ON-file596.html

Thanks for the link George.

From the notes accompanying the file:

This CD was created by the Media Group in conjunction with Manager Online and TOC to show the real fact to the people and the world.

(emphasis my own)

So the CD was created by 3 of the PAD leader's own media organizations. No danger of any editorial bias then I suppose...

What parts did you think were biased Meercat? Any particular scenes or the way it was sequenced / storyboarded.

I am interested in your view as I have just watched it.

[h90]

you may have a look at the newspapers. Some of the coalition partners including the PPP are on the way to be dissolved because of massive vote buying.

Does your dictionary say "which bought the majority of people's votes"?

And even if they would be democratic elected , they are not acceptable after killing peaceful demonstrator.

Democracy is a tool to get the best leadership for getting the best for the people. If the government is killing the own people the system has failed and the criminals have to be removed.

[Guest Reimar]

I deleted from several post the quotes because of it's nature of flaming and abusing on one hand. On the other hand, please do not quote the same contents more than once or twice you can easily just post a link to that post without to reposting.

Thanks and cheers.

[Meerkat]

Thanks for the link George.

From the notes accompanying the file:

This CD was created by the Media Group in conjunction with Manager Online and TOC to show the real fact to the people and the world.

(emphasis my own)

So the CD was created by 3 of the PAD leader's own media organizations. No danger of any editorial bias then I suppose...

What parts did you think were biased Meercat? Any particular scenes or the way it was sequenced / storyboarded.

I am interested in your view as I have just watched it.

The only point I was trying to make with my earlier post was that one has to treat anything put out by the PAD, or the government for that matter, with more than a grain of salt. It is simplicity itself to selectively edit footage to make either side come out comparatively smelling of roses or of shit depending on your point of view. Remember that there's hours and hours of footage from each camera to choose from, all condensed into a package lasting less than an hour.

I am disappointed that TV.com deems this piece worthy of its own "sticky", especially as the accompanying notes by a Moderator advertise it as the "real fact" and make no explicit disclaimer that the news sources mentioned are in fact owned by the founder and leader of the PAD, and are thus liable to tell a very one-sided story. I appreciate that George did refer to it as the PAD's work (or at least that they were the ones distributing it), but only on this thread.

Sondhi himself has said that you can't believe everything you hear from the PAD stage, and yet we're supposed to believe from a Moderator (ie someone we are supposed to look up to as being above partisanship on this board, and from whom we risk being suspended/banned for criticising them) that this is the truth.

[animatic]

Even if :

You consider the source suspect,

And the video images are coming for MULTIPLE sources,

from both behind PAD's lines

and beind Police lines,

And you consider it was edited in any way,

it STILL shows a truly dispicable set of actions by the police.

There is no possibility of exculpatory footage.

I have edited video for a living.

There are more than enough sections that show NO EDITSthat disrupt the images.

The nature of a raw footage compilation, is rough cut edits and very little story told.

You can SEE the story for yourself.

This was way beyond necessary force for the situation.

This was intentionally punishing the protesters.

It had nothing to do with crowd control.

This was revenge for a simmering grudge.

This was a disgusting display and the perpatrators should feel shame till their dieing day.

The persons in charge on the street may have thought that they were gaining back face

for not getting PAD cleared out on day one. Instead they have lost ALL FACE they EVER had,

and will NEVER regain it. NEVER!

[JetsetBkk]

As a long-time thaivisa member, I am constantly amazed at how a tiny handful of members monopolise this news section as if it were their own personal property (which is why I have seldom bothered to post in the past!); and by their constant sarcasm (perhaps not evident to you, but clear as daylight to others), endless hunting down and denigration of anyone who dares to enter the forum with a difference of opinion, and their delight in having such opposition deleted or banned, make it a travesty of fair debate.

Just step back, and look at the last few pages. What we have is no more than 6 fanatical pro-PAD supporters/Thaksin-haters posting endlessly to each other, taking an occaisional break to slag off an opponent. Just totally purile.

So very true.

It's gonna get BLOODY interesting soon ...

I'm afraid it will.

[catmac]

Thanks for the link George.

From the notes accompanying the file:

This CD was created by the Media Group in conjunction with Manager Online and TOC to show the real fact to the people and the world.

(emphasis my own)

So the CD was created by 3 of the PAD leader's own media organizations. No danger of any editorial bias then I suppose...

What parts did you think were biased Meercat? Any particular scenes or the way it was sequenced / storyboarded.

I am interested in your view as I have just watched it.

The only point I was trying to make with my earlier post was that one has to treat anything put out by the PAD, or the government for that matter, with more than a grain of salt. It is simplicity itself to selectively edit footage to make either side come out comparatively smelling of roses or of shit depending on your point of view. Remember that there's hours and hours of footage from each camera to choose from, all condensed into a package lasting less than an hour.

I am disappointed that TV.com deems this piece worthy of its own "sticky", especially as the accompanying notes by a Moderator advertise it as the "real fact" and make no explicit disclaimer that the news sources mentioned are in fact owned by the founder and leader of the PAD, and are thus liable to tell a very one-sided story. I appreciate that George did refer to it as the PAD's work (or at least that they were the ones distributing it), but only on this thread.

Sondhi himself has said that you can't believe everything you hear from the PAD stage, and yet we're supposed to believe from a Moderator (ie someone we are supposed to look up to as being above partisanship on this board, and from whom we risk being suspended/banned for criticising them) that this is the truth.

So, so right Meerkat!

Sadly, one of the Moderators on this thread is displaying partisanship beyond belief, even dredging up some quote from some unknown source on the web that police were killing "women and CHILDREN'! Needless to say, when I pointed out that it was an absolute lie designed to inflame the situation that shouldn't have been posted by even the most rabid PADister, my post was deleted!