View On Electric Cars?

[Vato]

....DP

Edited October 18, 2008 by Vato

[Greenside]

Here's a link that usually carries reports of the more novel announcements in the transportation field. I know the OP was about electric cars but just a few hundred miles away in China they've done a great job of promoting the use of electric scooters and bikes in urban areas. They are cheap, enjoy tax and licensing breaks and the one I rode was nippy and silent.

I must say it's a joy to walk around an Asian city without the constant overwhelming noise of bikes - you can really hear what those loudspeaker vans have to say for a change...

We have got a specialist electric bike shop here in CM (2/3rds of the way from the river to the railway station on the left hand side) but since the prices are pretty much the same as the gas powered alternatives and the city has not introduced any incentives to promote their use I think he has a tough marketing job on his hands (particularly as your average bike rider probably doesn't have the environment at the top of his/her priority list). I understand from another retailer that the import duty on electric bikes is the same as on gas powered ones so there's one place Thailand could start.

[Vato]

...just a little clarification regarding joule's law and ohm's law.

everytime you double voltage you halve the current...so going from 110/220 volts to 110,000 volts during transmission, you can see how many times the current has been cut in half, by many fold and therefore reducing loss.

[BSJ]

Hi Lebowski, I am not anti-EV, just a little sceptical! Like hydrogen as fuel, I am not anti-hydrogen.....as long as it is done right! But I have been around long enough to know consumers will not buy a product if they think it will fail or is unsafe. hel_l I think steam powered cars would be a great asset to the motoring public if a non toxic, non polluting fuel could be found. But it would only take one or 2 to explode for consumers to get nervous! Batteries are what people are worried about. The people who have EV don't want a hefty bill if the batteries need to be replaced. And we are talking many thousands of dollars. Of course a manufacture could give an extended warranty, that would appeal to many first buyers. Second buyers on the other hand...maybe not!

according to Joule's Law, the losses are proportional to the square of the current, halving the current makes the transmission loss one quarter the original value.

Hi Vato, it's been a few years since I covered it but "one quarter the original value" doesn't sound right. Your dealing with the cross section of the carrier, the voltage and current. Plus ambient temperate, the material - aluminum or copper aluminum. I'd have to dig out my reference books to get an answer on that! Given a well designed transmission system the losses should not exceed 10% on a high load day. Generation in Oz starts off at 21 KV or 24 KV @ 50Hertz. Never heard of a power station on 110/220???

Hi Greenside, gas or electric mopeds and scooters are extremely economical and it would be nice if sh1t for brains politicians in my country could see that. Instead they put up barriers to their use and charge high fees and taxes....and high license costs. Melbourne, the city I live in has a lot of traffic congestion and in some places at peak hour it's bedlam. Mopeds scooters and motorcycles would ease that problem if it was more attractive for peolple to buy them.

[Vato]

"... losses are proportional to the square of the current, halving the current makes the transmission loss one quarter the original value..." <<< google this phrase

i shouldve been clearer about the transmission voltage and ended up saying it backwards, should read - '....going from 110,000 volts during transmission to 110/220 volts, you can see how many times the current has been cut in half, by many fold and therefore reducing loss...'

australia has some of the strictest rules regarding electric bikes - 200 watt limit, a standard rice cooker is 400 watts

batteris are only expensive because we all pay retail, if things go mainstram batt prices will drop.

[ronz28]

CSIRO UltraBattery appears to be the electric car battery solution the auto makers are testing and it will help wind power to be more useful....

CSIRO battery to run world's cars

Canberra Times

Wednesday 24/9/2008 Page: 3

Cars across the United States, Japan and Thailand will soon be powered by a world-first CSIRO low emissions technology that cuts the cost of hybrid-electric vehicles by 70 per cent. But Australia may have to wait until this home-grown green technology arrives in imported cars, unless local car manufacturers express an interest in buying the battery to power hybrid cars.

The UltraBattery, invented by a Melbourne-based CSIRO team led by engineer Lan Trieu Lam, is being hailed as a key breakthrough that will significantly reduce global greenhouse emissions by making electric cars and other vehicles more affordable. CSIRO's Energy Transformed Flagship director John Wright said, "It's really something special.

"It's quite a remarkable technology, and it's generating a lot of interest." Earlier this week, the world's biggest independent battery maker, the giant US manufacturer East Penn, signed an international commercialisation and distribution agreement with the Japanese company involved in building and testing the battery prototypes. The agreement will see the CSIRO UltraBattery distributed by East Penn across the US, Canada and Mexico, while Japan's Furukawa Battery Company will market the technology in Japan and Thailand.

Described by Dr Wright as "a lead-acid battery with a few interesting new tricks to it", the UltraBattery combines a conventional lead-acid car battery with high-power electrodes. The revolutionary design is 70 per cent cheaper than current batteries used to power hybrid vehicles and delivers 50 per cent more power than conventional batteries. It also lasts four times longer.

Recent tests at the Millbrook test circuit in Britain - Europe's top testing ground for new car innovations - used a Honda Insight as a test vehicle. with the CSIRO hybrid battery powering the car through 160,000km without a hitch. Dr Wright jumped in for the final 5km run, and described the experience as "a real buzz, I can tell you".

Also watching the battery go through its paces at the test track were several members of the US Congress who suggested to Dr Wright that "getting the battery out in the market should be high on the US government's agenda". But will it be used in Australia, where greenhouse emissions from transport are increasing by 27 percent. "Well, that would be nice wouldn't it?" Dr Wright said. "We'd like to see it used in all major brands of cars, and that's probably how it will eventually come to Australia.

"It's not licensed here yet for car manufacture, but could be here within a few years if we receive an expression of interest for manufacture and distribution of the technology in this region." The UltraBattery can also be used to improve the performance and energy storage capacity of wind farms, and has been successfully tested on turbines at CSIRO's Energy Transformed flagship headquarters in Newcastle.

"When you see the turbine blades turning smoothly, it's quite deceptive as they're not generating a steady output of electricity," he said. "There are a lot of fluctuations - what we call electrical noise - but by putting in a battery we can shave off the peaks and spikes and smooth out the current quite considerably."

[unomi]

nice

[Vato]

Eestor is suppose to have a good technology coming out, but these companies never seem to bring anything to the table for the public...lets just hope something materializes and the patents dont get sold.

[BSJ]

Hi Vato, I see where you got the quoted text from and you are correct in the context of that paragraph. I on the other hand was considering variable current flow in a transmission wire of a fixed cross section over a range of temperatures. Using Matthiessen's Rule

we can predict our transmission losses fairly accurately. The rule takes into account the different types and grade of material being used.

"From Wikipedia: Transmission efficiency is improved by increasing the voltage using a step-up transformer, which reduces the current in the conductors, while keeping the power transmitted nearly equal to the power input. The reduced current flowing through the conductor reduces the losses in the conductor and since, according to Joule's Law, the losses are proportional to the square of the current, halving the current makes the transmission loss one quarter the original value."

Hi ronz28, CSIRO have a lot of good ideas. The one I have been following with interest is the new process for casting titanium that will hopefully knock 30% off the parts final price, increase production over the old method by at least 25% and ultimately produce a stronger part. Use in the auto industry could see 40-70kg of other metals out of each car made.