British Airways

[benjamat]

Investigative programme on BBC UK last night about British airways.

Interesting Stats.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for losing luggage, in 2007 approx 1 bag in 40 got lost.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for cancelled flights.

BA Automatically sends a refusal to pay compensation blaming exceptional circumstances beyond itd control, these include staff shortages and mechanical breakdown.

Reminds me yet again of Clinton saying he didnt have sex.

Yep, you can see BA is the worlds No1 airline.

Edited October 14, 2008 by benjamat

[Mr Conrad]

The world's number 1 "self appointed" favourite airline. i would rather walk!!

Best Regards

Mr Conrad

[Mighty Mouse]

Qantas and British Airways are affiliated. I'm a member of the Qantas frequent flier program but always preferred to travel with British rather than Qantas.

The service on British was almost non-existent. The drink trolley would be pushed up the aisle once during flights between Oz and LOS.

This year I converted to Thai Airways. The drink trolley was always in the aisle, the food was great, the hostesses never stopped smiling and more importantly....the airfare was much cheaper.

I have enough FF points to take a free flight to LOS with Qantas but would much rather pay and travel with Thai.

[bkkjames]

Investigative programme on BBC UK last night about British airways.

Interesting Stats.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for losing luggage, in 2007 approx 1 bag in 40 got lost.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for cancelled flights.

BA Automatically sends a refusal to pay compensation blaming exceptional circumstances beyond itd control, these include staff shortages and mechanical breakdown.

Reminds me yet again of Clinton saying he didnt have sex.

Yep, you can see BA is the worlds No1 airline.

Interesting, I wonder if I can find some similar stats about Virgin or whatever airline you work for. Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

[Dave the Dude]

not enough legroom on BA cattleclass flights between LHR - BKK. They must be responsible for that

[geriatrickid]

Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

I checked the BAA website and according to the fancy BAA interactive map of who does what, Baggage handling is the responsibility of the airlines. this includes loading of luggage onto the airplane and unloading luggage at the destination.

See for yourself http://www.baa.com/portal/page/Corporate%5...00357e120a____/

In June 2006, BAA was bought by a consortium led by Ferrovial the Spanish construction company. Airlines are the clients of BAA. Whatever services rendered on behalf of the airlines reflects the fees that the airlines are willing to pay. If BA says it wants to pay less, then BAA delivers services to reflect that.

[bkkjames]

Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

I checked the BAA website and according to the fancy BAA interactive map of who does what, Baggage handling is the responsibility of the airlines. this includes loading of luggage onto the airplane and unloading luggage at the destination.

See for yourself http://www.baa.com/portal/page/Corporate%5...00357e120a____/

In June 2006, BAA was bought by a consortium led by Ferrovial the Spanish construction company. Airlines are the clients of BAA. Whatever services rendered on behalf of the airlines reflects the fees that the airlines are willing to pay. If BA says it wants to pay less, then BAA delivers services to reflect that.

Your last sentence is quite funny. So now BAA has a scaleable service level depending on your budget. Airline A pays this much = 25 bags lost a month. Airline B pays less = 40 bags a month. How much does an airline need to pay for BAA to guarantee no lost bags I wonder?

[benjamat]

Investigative programme on BBC UK last night about British airways.

Interesting Stats.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for losing luggage, in 2007 approx 1 bag in 40 got lost.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for cancelled flights.

BA Automatically sends a refusal to pay compensation blaming exceptional circumstances beyond itd control, these include staff shortages and mechanical breakdown.

Reminds me yet again of Clinton saying he didnt have sex.

Yep, you can see BA is the worlds No1 airline.

Interesting, I wonder if I can find some similar stats about Virgin or whatever airline you work for. Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

Go look for the stats you wont find them, the bile strikes again. Actually I travel with whoever gives me the best direct fare on the date but not now BA. BA, British airways authority, who gives a sh-t. Oh, and the BBC made the report.

Geriatrickid you are quite correct. In any service industry the level of service will always eventually equate to what is being paid.

Edited October 15, 2008 by benjamat

[tw25rw]

BAA is just BAA Ltd, not British Airway Authority. It formerly stood for British Airports Authority.

[tw25rw]

I'd be interested to know the stats for flights not involving a change of plane. They will be much better.

[imaneggspurt]

In my 100 + international flights to and from thailand i used BA ( below average ) 4 times..i always checked prices and i would have liked at times to be patriotic, however the service was <deleted> and the prices highest, so, Thai Air it was and still is,.BA dont even try, with pricing or quality,.

[tw25rw]

Their economy is terrible value, but premium economy isn't bad and can be had quite cheaply sometimes. Club World is an excellent if expensive product. Never been in First.

[Ricardo]

not enough legroom on BA cattleclass flights between LHR - BKK. They must be responsible for that

No, that is the fault of Boeing, making their planes too short, for the number of seats BA put in them. !

I'd be interested to know the stats for flights not involving a change of plane. They will be much better.

I saw on 'Airport' (a popular UK TV-show) that some Gulf-based airlines, loading baggage in LHR, don't just load them higgledy-piggledy as they arrive, but have containers for bags going to several specific major onward-destinations. So a bag to BKK would be in a container-full of bags for BKK, and when it reaches DOH or DUB, the airline just has to transfer the full-container from one plane to another. Fine, until you mis-load an entire container, to the wrong onwards-destination, which would probably be Nairobi. !

BA used to stand for 'Born Again', but has now reverted to 'Bloody Awful' again, vote with your feet !

[OKF]

many years ago they used to be called 'slums in the air' but they got better over the time and now it is decreasing again. Their business class is still okay to fly with.

[jasreeve17]

I used to fly weekly (often multiple times per week) on business based in the UK, and obviously had the BA frequent flyer card. After multiple examples of extremely bad service from them I stopped flying BA altogether. This was a few years ago, and I haven't heard of any improvements since.

BA had customer service on par with easyjet (but not ticket prices!). Lufthansa, Virgin, Turkish, Thai and Midland were all airlines that I prefered to fly as a result of superior customer service. Not so much the planes and flying staff, but the customer sevice and customer support centre where I received answers such as "If you don't like it Sir I suggest that you fly with another airline." - which I did. That statement was made by a customer service manager after I received zero compensation that was previously promised (I had a full fare business class ticket, but due to overbooking was stuck in cattle class and promised a refund - which never came)...

Truly the worst customer services that I have ever encountered, makes Somchai Ltd seem like a customer focused entity!

[bkkjames]

With complaints like the above, it's no wonder one can't get a seat on them on the Bkk - Lhr route.

[jasreeve17]

With complaints like the above, it's no wonder one can't get a seat on them on the Bkk - Lhr route.

So you'd be happy to pay a full business class fare for an economy seat?

(It's worthwhile to try some logical thought before attempting a wisecrack...)

[citizen33]

Geriatrickid you are quite correct. In any service industry the level of service will always eventually equate to what is being paid.

Interesting talking point. I always thought naively that things like contract design, minimising information asymmetry, good monitoring of performance, use of accreditation or other quality assurance mechanisms and developing good relationships, played a big part in determining the quality of a service that one enterprise is buying from another. Your revolutionary insight could save companies a great deal of money. They no longer have to pay experts to do all these things and can instead just look at the price! I agree about BA though - my experience has not been good.

Edited October 17, 2008 by citizen33

[benjamat]

Hmm, sarcasm, what a surprise here,

No matter how many controls are applied or assesments, in the end if the money is restricted that will inevitably bring about deterioration, not enough staff or training, repair and maintenance, low wages etc.

[citizen33]

accidental double post

Edited October 19, 2008 by citizen33

[citizen33]

Hmm, sarcasm, what a surprise here,

No matter how many controls are applied or assesments, in the end if the money is restricted that will inevitably bring about deterioration, not enough staff or training, repair and maintenance, low wages etc.

...'always eventually equate to' was the phrase you used, and that to me is patently untrue. Certainly in the opposite scenario to the one that you mention, where controls are absent and price edges upwards, there is no reason to think that corresponding quality improvements will occur. I would be genuinely interested if you can really justify your statement, perhaps along the lines of the argument in the news recently that financial markets are perfectly efficient. The trouble with both arguments is that we do not really believe them: just as people judge that they can make money on the stockmarket, many think they can save money by not taking price as an automatic predictor of quality. I disagree with your argument but I mean you no offense.

[bkkjames]

With complaints like the above, it's no wonder one can't get a seat on them on the Bkk - Lhr route.

So you'd be happy to pay a full business class fare for an economy seat?

(It's worthwhile to try some logical thought before attempting a wisecrack...)

With an over 95% load factor in economy on the route, I suggest quite a few people don't mind the price.

(as for the logical thought process, I will leave that to geniuses like you to work out the math vs IQ vs full airplanes vs big mouth factor)

[samuibeachcomber]

now girls take it easy

[redman]

Investigative programme on BBC UK last night about British airways.

Interesting Stats.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for losing luggage, in 2007 approx 1 bag in 40 got lost.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for cancelled flights.

BA Automatically sends a refusal to pay compensation blaming exceptional circumstances beyond itd control, these include staff shortages and mechanical breakdown.

Reminds me yet again of Clinton saying he didnt have sex.

Yep, you can see BA is the worlds No1 airline.

Interesting, I wonder if I can find some similar stats about Virgin or whatever airline you work for. Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

Uncalled for reply.

I saw the programme too whenit was shown in UK last week. Breathtaking the way people were being fobbed off with the old "exceptional circumstances beyond the control of BA". I stopped flyinb BA years back beacause of the hassles

[bkkjames]

Investigative programme on BBC UK last night about British airways.

Interesting Stats.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for losing luggage, in 2007 approx 1 bag in 40 got lost.

BA has the worst record of any major airline for cancelled flights.

BA Automatically sends a refusal to pay compensation blaming exceptional circumstances beyond itd control, these include staff shortages and mechanical breakdown.

Reminds me yet again of Clinton saying he didnt have sex.

Yep, you can see BA is the worlds No1 airline.

Interesting, I wonder if I can find some similar stats about Virgin or whatever airline you work for. Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

Uncalled for reply.

I saw the programme too whenit was shown in UK last week. Breathtaking the way people were being fobbed off with the old "exceptional circumstances beyond the control of BA". I stopped flyinb BA years back beacause of the hassles

Uncalled for? I see, this is only a BA bitching thread, sorry.

[geriatrickid]

Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

I checked the BAA website and according to the fancy BAA interactive map of who does what, Baggage handling is the responsibility of the airlines. this includes loading of luggage onto the airplane and unloading luggage at the destination.

See for yourself http://www.baa.com/portal/page/Corporate%5...00357e120a____/

In June 2006, BAA was bought by a consortium led by Ferrovial the Spanish construction company. Airlines are the clients of BAA. Whatever services rendered on behalf of the airlines reflects the fees that the airlines are willing to pay. If BA says it wants to pay less, then BAA delivers services to reflect that.

Your last sentence is quite funny. So now BAA has a scaleable service level depending on your budget. Airline A pays this much = 25 bags lost a month. Airline B pays less = 40 bags a month. How much does an airline need to pay for BAA to guarantee no lost bags I wonder?

And your response does not reflect the statement made on the BAA website as to the responsibility of the airlines for bagage loading. I do not know why you insist on continuing a connection between BAA and the lost luggage. Go and visit the BAA site and watch the interactive presentation and read for yourself that baggage loading and unloading is the airline responsibility. Loading and unloading as well as the bundling of luggage is when bags go astray. The bags can fall off the baggage wagons, or be left out of a luggage container. That is not the BAA's doing.

Did you find my last statement amusing because you did not understand it? I will simplify my point; The BAA charges a fee to the airport tenants. This includes services rendered such as cleaning and general maintenance. If an airline needs fee reductions than the cost reduction is achieved by curtailing services. For example, a cleaner may only vacum a carpet once every 3 days, or a burnt out light will have to wait for a month until the light bulb changing crew makes its rounds.

[bkkjames]

Re the baggage, last time I checked it was the British Airports authority that is responsible for baggage handling in most of London's airports as AOT is here.

I checked the BAA website and according to the fancy BAA interactive map of who does what, Baggage handling is the responsibility of the airlines. this includes loading of luggage onto the airplane and unloading luggage at the destination.

See for yourself http://www.baa.com/portal/page/Corporate%5...00357e120a____/

In June 2006, BAA was bought by a consortium led by Ferrovial the Spanish construction company. Airlines are the clients of BAA. Whatever services rendered on behalf of the airlines reflects the fees that the airlines are willing to pay. If BA says it wants to pay less, then BAA delivers services to reflect that.

Your last sentence is quite funny. So now BAA has a scaleable service level depending on your budget. Airline A pays this much = 25 bags lost a month. Airline B pays less = 40 bags a month. How much does an airline need to pay for BAA to guarantee no lost bags I wonder?

And your response does not reflect the statement made on the BAA website as to the responsibility of the airlines for bagage loading. I do not know why you insist on continuing a connection between BAA and the lost luggage. Go and visit the BAA site and watch the interactive presentation and read for yourself that baggage loading and unloading is the airline responsibility. Loading and unloading as well as the bundling of luggage is when bags go astray. The bags can fall off the baggage wagons, or be left out of a luggage container. That is not the BAA's doing.

Did you find my last statement amusing because you did not understand it? I will simplify my point; The BAA charges a fee to the airport tenants. This includes services rendered such as cleaning and general maintenance. If an airline needs fee reductions than the cost reduction is achieved by curtailing services. For example, a cleaner may only vacum a carpet once every 3 days, or a burnt out light will have to wait for a month until the light bulb changing crew makes its rounds.

I find this statement amusing, remind me to blame BA when the carpet at Club World needs vaccuming.

[bkkjames]

Oh and I forget Geriatric kid this little self-admission from the baggage problems during T5 opening....

Airport operator BAA's computer system which sorts bags before they are loaded onto flights malfunctioned and manual sorting had to be carried out.

British Airways cancelled 24 flights to and from Terminal 5 on Saturday due to the latest baggage problems.

The terminal suffered baggage problems within hours of opening nine days ago.

A spokeswoman described the situation on Saturday as "incredibly disappointing" but said the airline was working with BAA to resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

BAA said the problem was entirely its responsibility.

A spokeswoman said: "We apologise to BA and all passengers who have been affected, and we assure them that our specialist staff are working hard to resolve the problem and keep disruption to BA's operation to a minimum.

Does this not contradict your earlier statement saying that baggage handling was the responsibility of the airlines?

[benjamat]

Hmm, sarcasm, what a surprise here,

No matter how many controls are applied or assesments, in the end if the money is restricted that will inevitably bring about deterioration, not enough staff or training, repair and maintenance, low wages etc.

...'always eventually equate to' was the phrase you used, and that to me is patently untrue. Certainly in the opposite scenario to the one that you mention, where controls are absent and price edges upwards, there is no reason to think that corresponding quality improvements will occur. I would be genuinely interested if you can really justify your statement, perhaps along the lines of the argument in the news recently that financial markets are perfectly efficient. The trouble with both arguments is that we do not really believe them: just as people judge that they can make money on the stockmarket, many think they can save money by not taking price as an automatic predictor of quality. I disagree with your argument but I mean you no offense.

As you rightly intimate it is about perceived quality. However in the end it is clear to me that BA is driven by shareholder profits perhaps more than some others. In addition if you spend years trying to drive down costs there is one area where I still say it is inevitable that standards will drop and that is in human resources. In the past 2 years alone there have been almost constant disputes between staff and BA. One highly publicised dispute was with pilots and onother with cabin staff, neither of which was resolved satisfactorily for the staff. BA,s main excuse for cancelled flights was staff shortages. I think that says all.

If you look at the posts here I think it is pretty clear what posters experience indicates.

[citizen33]

As you rightly intimate it is about perceived quality. However in the end it is clear to me that BA is driven by shareholder profits perhaps more than some others. In addition if you spend years trying to drive down costs there is one area where I still say it is inevitable that standards will drop and that is in human resources. In the past 2 years alone there have been almost constant disputes between staff and BA. One highly publicised dispute was with pilots and onother with cabin staff, neither of which was resolved satisfactorily for the staff. BA,s main excuse for cancelled flights was staff shortages. I think that says all.

If you look at the posts here I think it is pretty clear what posters experience indicates.

I don't necessarily disagree with the substantive point; it was more the general principle of price = quality where my quibble arises. Call me a pedant of you like, but there are many variables to consider. In this case BAA' s position as the monopoly supplier of airport services at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted was recently criticised by the Competition Commission. As a monopoly supplier, BAA may well have been able to include an element of what economists call 'rent' (i.e. excess profits) in its charges for baggage handling with some carriers. I freely admit that I do not know the details of BA's contract with BAA, and whether the renegotiation of prices merely reduces the 'rent' element or has the kind of consequences you predict. I suppose I am saying that BA may not be angels but BAA's case also merits investigation.